So, I had a friend ask me the other day to describe or go more in detail what my depression was like, where it came from. I've found that exploring where it comes from can help you move in a direction away from it. This is what I came up with and told him.

-------------

I feel like a complete waste of oxygen and resources since I got sick. I create nothing, I give back nothing. I am a worthless parasite that has no symbiotic benefit for the planet I infest.
I have chosen to not kill my self only in the self delusional fantasy that if I tough it out I may have a good death.

Maybe I can be a meat shield in one instance that will keep someone worth something alive.

That is the only reason I persevere.
I literally have no other hopes or dreams left. Everything was taken from me these last 25 years. All of my plans, all of my hopes and dreams were destroyed by this illness.
I am an empty husk, a remnant of a hollowed out soul.

And my only desire left is to be of some sort of use. Even if I'm the human equivalent of a paper plate.

Thanks for sharing Potatoman-J, I can echo some of this, but it wasn't an illness that made me depressed and anxious.

I have zero self worth, I feel of use to no person. I hear words people say about how great I am but I can't believe them when all the actions in my life are to the contrary. There are a few exceptions to this and for those few exceptions I chose life (a while ago now)and cling on to it for. Sadly, motivation to change things has gone, but I'm working on that.

I have come to the conclusion that words mean very little and our actions are what matter(especially in a world where we more often believe the words people say over their actions, it seems).

The thing is, and while I don't believe for myself(again working on it), I think people are brilliant, and I have this belief unwavering. Some people hide it, some people don't.

I might as well chime in...

I've been there. I *am* there right now. Somewhere along the line I got it beaten into me that I'm nothing; that I'm only cared about because of the usefulness I have to other people.

Someone tells me they love me because I'm me? I burst into tears. I didn't believe. I still have trouble believing. And it broke relationships. I think I'm ugly, inside and out. I think I'm a terrible person. I think I'm not worth effort.

But I keep being told that's wrong. And I tried to live up to that, but it's hard. There's a phase where those things warring against each other turn into "self-righteous asshole", because I start to think I do deserve love and kindness and consideration, but I don't know how to express it well. So I try to fake it until I make it, but that doesn't come out right. So it hurts relationships again.

One day I'll find it. I have to. But it's not easy. [sigh]

Actions can definitely be more genuine than words. But even they can hide things like ulterior motives. Do you have any idea why you feel you have no worth? Where the origin of that feeling comes from? It might help you work through it.


Try and dig into the when and the why.

For me it was family from the time I was very young. My grandfather is a narcissist and nothing I ever did was good enough. If I came in second place in anything I was berated. He also physically abused me through my childhood.

My parents were generally ok (at least until I was 14 when my mom lost her mind). But they were VERY non-understanding during my sexual awakening and made me feel like a degenerate the entire time.

I also feel you on the not believing in love thing. That came from my divorce. I was in a relationship for 20 years (my only relationship) and then my wife came out as trans, asexual, and told me they never felt like a woman and always hated sex. They just faked it the entire time, hoping they'd learn to like it and feel sexual attraction towards me.

It destroyed my perceptions of reality and trust. What is up or down, what is blue? My entire reality felt challenged and threatened.

For me it was university where it started. I went there believing I would do great things, because people had said that I would. I was still trying to figure out who I was and I quickly came to realise I was probably less than average. The pressure of living up to expectations and realising I couldn't fed the thoughts of uselesness. It was only later that I became comfortable with who I am and while I no longer feel a need to live up to expectations, inner voice had done it's damage.

As I said I'm working on it.

I think you said that really eloquently, especially because there has to be a lot of frustration and anger and maybe even fear inherent in the process you're describing. I hope you can eventually find someone who hears what you're saying and holds out a hand without judgment, because I feel like you're nearer to a breakthrough than you might think.


This is how I feel every time I injure myself. I play a lot of basketball, so I end up turning my ankle a lot, and a few months ago I even strained my Achilles. The rehab process is something I've gone through before, but it's always hard to believe that I'll actually get back to normal. The fortunate thing about physical therapy is that it's so well-understood - I can get a list of exercises and just repeat the motion, x times per day, y days per week, for z weeks. Psychological and social therapies are so much harder to practice in the same way, which makes it that much harder to feel like your feet are really on the ground.


I often think about what greatness means, what it costs, and how much it's really worth. What kind of things did you envision for yourself? Do you see other people doing those things now?

I think it was just to go on and be successful in my area, including leading others. I quickly found out I didn't have the charisma to lead. I often got shouted down or people just didn't listen, because they wanted it their way. I don't have the forcefulness to push my ideas or quickness of mind to argue my point effectively, even if I'm right.

Yeah - so, for whatever it's worth, I've done a little of that, both professionally and in a community setting. I work in software, and for a few years I was a manager, which I sought out because I wanted to have more of an influence in the way a team was run. That turned out to be true, although not nearly as much as I expected - I'd say I had maybe 3-5% more power than I did as a regular worker. And, as you say, the flip side was that other people (somewhat paradoxically) also had more power over me, in that I had to contend with vice presidents, other managers, and the like. It was a tremendously unpleasant experience, and in the end I didn't even really accomplish what I'd wanted to accomplish because the corrupting influences in the system were higher than the management level.

The community effort went a little better, but we all got burned out and it basically collapsed. If I'd been willing to sacrifice my entire life to keep it going, I probably could've made it work, but I just wasn't going to do that. There were too many other things that I believed in and wanted to do and be.

So those are two of the many sides of what we call greatness. Many organizations are, in fact, designed to stifle any early glimmers of special talent or motivation, and many organizations that aren't designed with *that* flaw are designed to run people into the ground.

Moreover, as you say, our idea of "greatness" is often connected not to rightness or reason but sheer force of personality. (I wouldn't go so far as to call that "charisma" - I think charisma is a different thing - but that's just semantics, ultimately.) And for most of us, sheer force of personality is not the overriding priority. Which is true for good reason! We live in a subtle and complicated world, which means we have to be subtle and complicated thinkers in order to understand it. It's far easier to pretend everything is simple and then paper over the resulting failures with bluster and sophistry.

I get the sense that that's not what you want for yourself. If so, that's not a failure or a character flaw. Nor is it a sign of worth when other people act like children in order to gain power. My personal belief is that this is a major error in our concept of greatness: basically, we're confusing "great" with "powerful," when in fact the two are not particularly close (the Wizard of Oz notwithstanding ). So, like, yeah - it doesn't sound like your strengths predispose you towards being a ladder-climber or something like that. But I hope there comes a time when you can see that ladder-climbing is an inherently limiting way to live and that there might be something else that you want for yourself.

I also wouldn't say charisma and force of personality were the same thing. People will follow someone with charisma, but people are often forced to follow people who force their personality. I'm not interested in climbing ladders or working flat out. I like time to myself and hate taking work home with me. However, the damage was done, I didn't fill my world with people of encouragement and kindness. Sometimes you just take a while to figure things out.

There's overlap between the two, but force of personality is "I follow them because they told me to and I can't say no" and Charisma is "I follow them because they asked me to and I said yes."

I had an ex that was a budding cult leader. They had both. Carrot and stick. And if you buy me a drink or treat me to a nice mud bath, I'll probably share the story. Depends on the drink and/or mud. >,>

It's hard isn't it? Sometimes it's to much had a friend I was working with die in his mothers arms 6 days ago while she was doing cpr and he was suffocating when the paramedics entered the door he couldn't breath anymore and she held him as he poked into her eyes. I found out about that story and immediately jumped on recovery phone lines. It's painful someone once told me grief if the currency of love to some extent.

I try to numb memory's of abuse usual they appear with nightmares vividly graphic and brutal and utterly painful. But I wake up and take a shower I try to call someone I try I keep trying it's from real things I wish I could turn into a place that's not so real but my body remembers. I got to eat lunch with joemama today and he's absolutely hilarious and down to earth. Maybe I should skydive with you and take a bus over to Philadelphia and just drop from a plane and be carefree maybe end up on the water somewhere. I don't have all the answers but you need to know it's hard and it may never get easier but that dosnt stop the small things from being beautiful and sometimes joyful find the things you can play with. Don't let it get you down.

Your not alone
https://youtu.be/1sElYG7LmUU

I know you left the groupme but you can dm here man.
https://youtu.be/-YEhGYjDS1U

This was intriguing to me
https://youtu.be/Azt8SRgwBJ8

For me depression is like wading through water. You can get from point A to point B just like everyone else, but everything takes more effort, requires constant adjustments and your speed is reduced considerably. Very much like trying to sprint when you dream and having that heavy legs feeling.