This is a very good point - and as you say you can't make someone seek help, only encourage them.

To that end, I think the best approach is showing them that the various things they are struggling with all have a name and a cause - in my limited experience I have seen that when someone sees a list of 'symptoms' of their condition they often have a moment of clarity where they realise that this might be an explanation. And knowing what is going on with yourself is very empowering.

So while I don't have a list of 'helpful resources that don't look like help' I think a clear description of what signs of mental illness look and feel like would go a long way to helping someone in denial.

For example - something like this might well be helpful in guiding someone to realise that what they're living with isn't 'normal':
https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/mental-health/anxiety#symptoms

https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/mental-health/depression#symptoms-and-causes-of-depression

Of course at the end of the day we can't help someone who doesn't want help, but having this information available in some form could nudge someone who is getting to the point of realising they're not coping.

To follow up on that with my personal experience.

If you're an adult, there's a REALLY EASY solution. Just cut them out of your life and leave. Some people cannot be, or don't want to be saved. Some people just want to cause others pain and misery, some just want to watch the world burn. Don't just turn and walk away, burn the bridge and make it impossible for them to affect your life ever again.

Now, children don't have this luxury when the problem is in one or both parents. Children have no rights. They cannot leave, and often times when they call for help others cannot legally intervene, OR WORSE, don't believe them because said parents can put on a normal face for the public.

For instance, my mother is bi-polar, schizophrenic, paranoid, and a violent alcoholic. Not a very good combination. This was/is a woman who cannot be reasoned with. You cannot tell her she's being violent, a drunk, crazy, mean, etc. Yet, I have had to deal with her up until last year. My very last meeting with her was getting my dad (two years out of a serious stroke) out of the house. I pulled up, and he was bleeding down his face and crying like a child. she came tearing out of the house with blood on her hands, and it culminated with punching my mom in the face twice (something NO ONE should ever have to say they have done, or justify).

So for 20 years I had to put up with it and pretend it was normal because no one would do anything about the situation, even though I had her arrested a total of 4 times. Then for the next 10 I had to deal with it as I had a brother 11 years younger than me. I tried to get him emancipated or turned over to my custody but failed. Then a few more when my dad became unable to care for himself.

Now at 37 and 26 respectively, my brother and I take care of our aging grandparents, AND father. All the while our mother does everything in her power to spite him financially, and upset her mother whenever possible.

My dad could have solved this years ago with a divorce. but he "loved" her. Apparently so much so that he was willing to put his sons through hell to keep the family "together". He would say things like "that's just how she is", or "no one's perfect". I respect someone's decision to stay with someone at the cost of themselves. However, you don't do it at the cost of someone else too, and not at the cost of your kids.

But instead what happened was mental diagnoses of anxiety disorder for my brother and I, physical health issues, several arrests, numerous violent incidents, innumerous incidents of mental abuse (mmm gaslighting), and a stroke for my dad.

So, in particular, if you see or know of a child suffering, DO SOMETHING, because they can't. Call the police, call social services, say something, do something.

J, I'd just like to say how truly sorry I am for what has happened to you and your family. Your ability to not give up is beautiful.

Everyone fights battles, that's why there's only one answer, be kind, always xx

So sorry to hear all that Potatoman, that must have been horrific.

Hi all, I've compiled the information you've all kindly provided and put together a few bits and pieces. I'll try and include them below and hopefully the formatting won't suffer too much.

For now I've got 'crisis' pages for UK, NL and US, since that's what people have provided me (I added a few other resources I found and thought might be good to include). I've also got more 'general' help pages for each country which I'll put in the next post.

The next thing would be some general mental health information (perhaps a list of the most common conditions people tend to report, along with symptoms) but what do we think of this as a starting point?

Thanks, Henry

----------------

Resources for Crisis Help in the Netherlands
***If you don't feel you can keep yourself safe right now - call 112***

General Crisis Hotlines
* 113 Online | http://www.113online.nl/home | 0900-1130113
* Sensoor | https://www.deluisterlijn.nl/ | 0900-0767
* Korrelatie | https://mindkorrelatie.nl/ | 0900-1450
* Depressielijn | https://www.stichtingpandora.nl/jcms/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=15&Itemid=2 | 0900 - 6120909
* Nationale Zorgnummer | https://mindplatform.nl/thema/nationale-zorgnummer | 0900-2356780

Drug & Alcohol Hotlines
* Drugs Infolijn | https://www.drugsinfo.nl/publiek | 0900-1995

----------------

Resources for Crisis Help in the UK
***If you don't feel you can keep yourself safe right now, call 999***

General Crisis Hotlines
* Samaritans | https://www.samaritans.org/ | 116 123 or email jo@samaritans.org
* NHS Direct (England) | https://111.nhs.uk/| 111 (or 18001 111 on a textphone for hard of hearing)
* NHS Direct (Wales) | https://www.nhsdirect.wales.nhs.uk/ | 0845 46 47
* Contact your GP for an emergency appointment.


Drug & Alcohol Hotlines
* Frank | https://www.talktofrank.com/ | 0300 123 6600
* Drinkline | 0300 123 1110
* Alcoholics Anonymous | https://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/ | 0800 917 7650 or email help@aamail.org
* Contact your GP to discuss treatment options.


LGBTQ+
* Switchboard |https://switchboard.lgbt/ | 0300 330 0630


Self-Harm / Self-Abuse
* Samaritans | https://www.samaritans.org/ | 116 123 or email jo@samaritans.org
* Contact your GP for an emergency appointment.


Rape, Abuse, Sexual Assault
* Rape Crisis UK (Women only) | https://rapecrisis.org.uk/ | Helpline has limited hours but their website will guide you to a local centre.
England + Wales 0808 802 9999 (12pm to 2:30pm & 7pm to 9:30pm every day, plus 3pm to 5:30pm weekdays)
Scotland 0808 801 0302 (6pm to midnight every day)
Northern Ireland 1800 778 888 (24 hours)
* National Domestic Violence Helpline (Women Only) | http://www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk/ | 0808 200 0247
* Men's Advice Line (Men only) | http://www.mensadviceline.org.uk/ | 0808 801 0327

----------------

Resources for Crisis Help in the USA
***If you don't feel you can keep yourself safe right now - call 911***

General Crisis Hotlines
* Crisis Text Line | https://www.crisistextline.org/ | Text 'Hello' to 741-741
* I'm Alive | https://www.imalive.org/ | Online Crisis Chat
* Suicide Prevention Lifeline | https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ | 800-273-TALK (800-273-8255)
* Lifeline for Deaf/HoH | https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/help-yourself/for-deaf-hard-of-hearing/ | 800-799-4889
* Nacional de Prevenci del Suicidio | https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/help-yourself/en-espanol/ | 888-628-9454
* NAMI | https://www.nami.org/ | 800-950-6264 or Text NAMI to 741-741

Drug & Alcohol Hotlines
* National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence (NCADD) | https://www.ncadd.org/get-help/find-local-assistance | 1-800-622-2255
* Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) | https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline | 1-800-662-4357

LGBTQ+
* Gay & Lesbian National Hotline | https://www.glbthotline.org/contact.html | 1-888-THE-GLNH (1-888-843-4564)

Self-Harm / Self-Abuse
* SAFE (Self-Abuse Finally Ends) | https://selfinjury.com/ | 800-DONT-CUT (800-355-8288)

Rape, Abuse, Sexual Assault
* Rape, Abuse, Incest, National Network (RAINN) | https://www.rainn.org/ | 1-800-656-HOPE (1-800-656-4673)
* Sexual Abuse - Stop It Now! | https://www.stopitnow.org/| 1-888-PREVENT (1-888-773-8368)

And here are the more general resources.

By the way - I can't seem to find any formatting information on the forum - is it possible to do much? if so, can someone point me at some help on that, it might be best to try and lay these out so they're not a wall of text...

-----------------------

List of helpful resources for those in the Netherlands

General Information
* Dutch Department of Welfare
https://www.dwangindezorg.nl/rechten/recht-op-ondersteuning/hulplijnen
* NL Institute of Mental Health
https://www.trimbos.nl/trimbos-sites/depressie-angst-en-suicidepreventie
* MindKorrelatie - Phone, chat, social media support.
https://mindkorrelatie.nl/
An organisation that helps with multiple psychological issues. It offers the ability to anonymously chat or call with a professional.

-----------------------

List of helpful resources for those in the United Kingdom

General Information
* Mind - Mental Health Charity
https://www.mind.org.uk/
Great site with a lot of information and advice for all aspects of mental well-being.
* NHS - National Health Service
https://www.nhs.uk/
Covers all health issues, but likely to be your first point of contact for mental health issues also.
* Samaritans
https://www.samaritans.org/
One of the oldest helplines, and a great point of contact if you're having problems.

-----------------------

List of helpful resources for those in the USA

General Information
* Healthy Place is a good website with links to various other helpful resources and contacts.
https://www.healthyplace.com/
* The National Alliance on Mental Illness also has a great deal of useful information.
Check their website or call on 1-800-950-NAMI (6264).
https://www.nami.org/
* * Each state has their own affiliated organisation - here's a handy list:
* * https://www.healthyplace.com/other-info/resources/mental-health-hotline-numbers-and-referral-resources#NAMI
* Mental Health America website, or call on (800) 969-6642.
https://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/
* * Again each state has their own affiliated organisation - here's a handy list:
* * https://www.healthyplace.com/other-info/resources/mental-health-hotline-numbers-and-referral-resources#mha
* There is also a list of Non-Profit and Government agencies who can help:
https://www.healthyplace.com/other-info/resources/mental-health-hotline-numbers-and-referral-resources#govtagency

Please don't be. I am a firm believer in everything happening for a reason. I would not be the person I am today if even one of these experiences were different. I know this sounded like a pity post, but it's intended to be more about what can be overcome.

The thing is lots of people have had worse FAR worse experiences than this, but would never dare open up about them. Instead they put on a fake smile and internalize it. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it boils and festers until something horrible happens.

But I just wanted to point out that its not just us adults, a lot of kids deal with unimaginable things. As adults we need to be their voices when we see it happen.

I have no idea. I've found it's always a good idea to message Derek directly about stuff if you don't see a reply.

I've just seen someone reach the conclusion they had to cut someone out of their life under horrific emotional circumstances. Anyone strong enough to do what they have to deserves respect. It's not easy unless you hardly know them.


Anyway, I'm in. My time is really limited, but I'm happy to spare what's available. I've had some limited experience counseling, and limited is the point. But enough to know the value of listening and helping people reach their own realizations.

If someone wants to DM me to let me know what's going on, please do. I don't visit as much as I used to.

I've recently heard of a movement called CALM, the Campaign Against Living Miserably.
I don't know if that may be of any help.

That could be a very good resource in the UK. It appears that this group is primarily aimed at suicide prevention in men.

Thanks Mike - definitely one to add to the list.

Hey,

I've not forgotten, just been busy...

Just listening to a podcast and they mentioned mental heath mates

https://www.mentalhealthmates.co.uk/

I mentioned this earlier when I was talking about people with mental or substance issues that have kids, but I never linked it because I'm a moron.

https://www.stopitnow.org/ohc-content/what-is-child-protective-services

I have...mixed feelings about CPS, sometimes they are what's needed. However other times, they put kids in foster care without listening to their needs, sometimes when other options are a possibility.

That said, there aren't a lot of good resources out there for this. If the kids are teens, then they are developed and smart enough to seek things out on their own with internet IF they have it, and their parents don't watch their every move. But the little ones...they might not have anyone. Also, what about the others who may not be high functioning themselves and being abused?

Like what fucking good is this for instance? A resource for helping YOUR child "navigate" a relationship with an abusive parent!

https://www.nctsn.org/resources/children-and-domestic-violence-helping-your-child-navigate-relationship-abusive-parent

Well, if the parent is abusive, they're never going to use this to help the child. If the one parent is abusive and the other one isn't, then this is a band-aid for a gunshot wound! Maybe that parent should END the relationship and take the child before the abuser causes more harm.

I'm sorry, I'm really upset about this right now, and I'll see if I can't find more, but I wanted to put this out there too for others looking around. Also keep in mind that often times, mental illness and substance abuse go hand in hand.

This was an interesting and sad find in my looking around today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oliq8m8Qph0

Hi Lisa. I was so pleased to see you win that award. You are truly a ray of sunshine.

I've been with Pineapplesupport since its conception and it's amazing to see and help it grow. It is a place where the people in the Adult community can go and get connected to a listener who is free from bias and judgement. A lot ofnthe listeners there are from the adult industry so have had experiences that some can relate to. They also offer free and subsidized councelling from professional councillors and psychiatrists on the team.
They are truly lovely. We fully support them.

Since this has lost steam in the past two months, I thought I'd see if anyone else has had any other ideas or recent experiences with people to add.

Just had some more run ins with previously mentioned family members and thought of this thread again.

If anything, I think starting a UMD group is a good way to at least start. We could post a sticky there with all the contacts we've spent so much time looking up and researching. I don't expect to actually see a lot of conversation go on there, because that requires the afflicted (or at least affected) to reach out. That's a hard thing for a lot.

But at least the information is there. If it helps even one person I feel it's worth it. Naught may come of it, but the labor is already done. We just need to share it with the entire class as it were.

Hi all, Soakey here.

A lot has happenend for me in the past few months, I'll be using this 'unpersonal' profile on here due to this. Revamped my old 'dude' account into my store account.

I'm currently e-mailing with a guy who requested a custom through mail, and admitted to depression and low self-esteem. Would love a group here to direct him to and talk about it

So yeah, I'm still fully willing to help with and when I can!

Btw, I've just found a twitter account called 'Messy4Mind'. (https://twitter.com/messy4mind)

Not sure if that's anybody from this group? Otherwise he/she might be willing to tune-in as well

Thanks for the kick in the ass Jason. I've just renamed the Relationships group to "Messy Minds." Maybe that can at least be a place where we can always go to. If anybody wants to be an administrator of the group, please let me know.

https://umd.net/groups/group/messy-minds

Messmaster

Yeah, no problem. I'd be happy to admin it if no one else more qualified wants the job.

I've been a WAMmer for pretty much my whole life, and at the age of 34 (I'm 42 now) I was diagnosed with Aspergers. My close friends know about my love of getting messy, but none of them understand it... I would love to chat with someone who enjoys or at least understands how nice it feels...instead of therapy, WAMapy...

as i was reading through all these postings, i was sorta' wondering... i've never seen this "relationships" forum topic...

Maybe make this thread a "sticky" (pin?) that won't get pushed down the page due to lack of postings?

The group that is currently called "Messy Minds" was once called "Relationships" MM made the decision to expand on it to encompass all forms of help and advice, instead of JUST relationships.

This may be a bit late or already previously mentioned but good resource is
Hub of hope. Either via Web browser of app. A person can put their postcode and a list of local service will appear for mental health, domestic Violance, substance abuse etc.

It's never late, and you can't "necropost" on a thread or issue like this. Any resources and input are welcome!

I know mindfulness is a bit of a buzz word these days but this book has been recommended to me with meditations to help combat stress and anxiety. https://www.waterstones.com/book/mindfulness/professor-mark-williams/dr-danny-penman/9780749953089

It's a little late to comment on this, but regarding children with problem parents: one friend sued (his stepfather) to become the legal guardian of his stepsister and won. I'm not sure exactly how this works but it's a possible option. It also helped that my friend was an adult and had help from his adult siblings and a friend of the family.

It is always wonderful to hear a success story, but laws vary VASTLY state to state, just like with divorce. I have a friend right now who is fighting for custody of her youngest son from a manipulative ex who has a bigger wallet and more expensive lawyer.

Her son just wants to be with his mom and his brother, but the law and the judge doesn't seem to care about that...

Hi Lisa Congratulations on the award I have Aspergers, and have suffered from a lot of mental health issues in the pastI've been a WAMmer as long as I can remember, but every one of my friends find it weird I'd love a closed forum where people like us could openly discuss our desire to get messy, post videos and possibly arrange to meet up for a fun messy get together