I read Dessert_Trolley's open and exceptionally frank thread about telling his wife about fetishizing about WAM, and apart from being very relieved for him, it made me reread the description of this group and understand its purpose. I've been fighting with a WAM related conundrum, for quite a while now, and wondered whether sharing it here might help to answer it.

The Yin (apologies, this is very heavy):
I have always been shy therefore found it difficult in social situations - I'm not a great chatter, but a really good listener. However, I got by just fine... until I hit middle age. It's was like I an invisibility cloak had been thrown over me, nobody barely glancing my way or acknowledging that I exist. Even my partner began to show zero interest in me, my body, or my welfare (in my head anyway).

It was around this time that I realised that all of my friends had drifted away over the years, I'm guessing that is normal for most people at this age, and that I felt exceptionally lonely and lost. It tore away the remainder of my self-esteem and I rationalised what was happening by telling myself that I was worthless, boring, and an encumbrance to those who were unlucky enough to be around me. I somehow found comfort in feeling that I deserved it, the grief this caused somehow atoning for but affirming this truth. It wasn't long before this escalated into self-harming.

The Yang:
I started to WAM more often, more extreme, and started to post it to UMD. The odd thing is that I felt completely free, uninhibited and unashamed, with likes and comments acting like a lifeline. I have been mesmerised by mud since being a teenager and have found it erotic ever since. I started to like the idea of being submissive - being forced to humiliate and degrade myself, or not fighting whilst someone else did it to me, wanting them to it.

The conundrum: is wamming the shining light that is saving me from myself, allowing me to express my true self, desires, be unburdened and baggage free, be interesting, really live; or is it just another way to continue to punish and atone for being a shitty person?

> is wamming the shining light that is saving me from myself, allowing me to express my true self, desires, be unburdened and baggage free, be interesting, really live; or is it just another way to continue to punish and atone for being a shitty person?

I think if you have found that the wam community and finding ways to incorporate your fetish (which sounds like an integral part of your sexuality from what you wrote) is making you happy, then it's a good thing.

Research has shown that people who participate in their kinks and fetishes have better mental health, and I wouldn't be surprised if the ability to form a sense of community and freedom of self-expression are two contributing factors.

As long as you feel the risk of what you define as extreme is not unreasonable or outweighs the benefits it is providing you, then the bigger question might be why it feels like something that has been a part of you since you were younger that you are finally embracing is a way to self-punish yourself?

It's normal for all of us (especially those of use whose sexuality/fetishes deviate from some perceived social norm) to struggle with coming to terms with these parts of ourselves. It's really brave of you to put your struggles out here on a public forum. A lot of people just keep it all bottled inside without telling anyone.

And if WAM is helping you through a difficult time, then I don't see that as a downside

Wow, that's quite some answer. Thank you. I'm a bit star-struck.

I love wamming and always have, but started to worry that I've gotten so fixated on it that I had turned a good thing toxic. A bit like Rowena Ravenclaw's diadem (Harry Potter fans will understand this).

My dear friend! This could be me writing this back to myself. I fell exactly the same way. I too have very low self esteem and find my fetishes a great comfort. Violet is right, they do nothing but lift the spirits! I too have a totally different life and set of friends to those I had say 20 years ago. I consider all the people here who have said kind things to me (especially those who were so helpful during my Xmas meltdown) good friends as well. So if you are feeling suicidal, really low or just plain invisible talk to us, any of us, and we'll try and pull you out of your dark place. It makes me very sad to hear you might be suffering in silence. There is absolutely nothing wrong with covering yourself in mud if it makes you come alive and gives you a thrill. When I think about all the vicious and nasty unacceptable things in the world which masquerade as a fetish (and I am talking about the unmentionables here) it makes me smile that we have such a lightweight fetish in the scheme of things. You are not a bad person you just have issues which in all honesty are nothing to do with WAM and these are the things you really need to address. As you might have spotted, I do like writing, so if you are feeling down or plain had enough write to me. I will have no answers for you I am sure and it does no harm just to talk about things (and it'll really help the other person too!).

I now have to explain to my wife after coming cleaning about the messy that I am still a closet transvestite. I know she is NOT going to be happy about that in the slightest as she thought that was all done with. Telling my wife about the messy stuff was a revelation, but I think I will have more of a task on my hand with this than the other. She really does not like men impersonating women!

So chin up and don't try and over think WAM too much. Remember we are all here for you in Messy Minds if you have a problem.

Much love,
A / L x

It was your courage that inspired me to open up. Thanks.
It got somewhat better but I can see the signs of it returning and that's scaring the living daylights out of me.

First off all: Really good you found the courage to open up here, and share how you are doing and ask for others thoughts. Sometimes one can go round in circles endlessly, and someone else's view can break that circle.

I'd say that "recreational" sploshing/wamming would not be a problem. So for fun or the sensory/sexual sensation. If it would serve as escape from feeling bad, unhappy or to experience humilitation "because i deserve it" it could bring more harm on the longer term then it benefits you on the short term. It might give short relief of these feelings, but it will not change the (root)cause of these feelings so they will keep coming back.

So if the latter is happening in your life, probably it would be wiser on the long term to try to find out why you are feeling this unhappy and what you can to change this. Try to make small changes and start loving yourself again (more). Try to do things for yourself, that make you happy. And if needed, reach out for professional help.

Having said that: I don't want to imply in any way that you should stop wamming. Just don't stick your head in the sand (no pun intended), keep an eye on the direction you're going and try to change it to a better and happier destination.

Always remember that every one matters!

Lots of shrewd folk on this forum! This is what I should be focusing on but have found the most difficult. I have so much love for everyone bar one.

It is difficult to make changes, especially when you're not (feeling) well. Trying to make small changes in your routine, and incorporating these in your new routine is probably easier then trying to "do everyting different from now on".

I don't know how your lifestyle is and what you want to change, so maybe these following generic (but rather practical) things would not suit you:
- Take care of your appearance, wear nice and well fitting garments, and take care of your body. You deserve to look your best. If you look like sh*t and don't seem to care yourself, others won't care also.
- Take the time and effort to prepare good, tasty and healthy meals, and eat them with attention and appreciation for what you made yourself. Again, you deserve to eat well, healthy and tasty.
- Exercise to improve your physical condition or keep in shape. I myself like to do intensive training (road bike cycling) for draining energy/emotions, walking for thinking and pilates to keep my body a little flexible and toned. Exercising will also improve sleep.
- Try to sleep well, if you have problems falling asleep because thoughts/emotions keep haunting you, try sleep meditations to clear your mind.
- Keep an eye open and enjoy/appreciate small things in daily life. A beautfiful morning/evening sky, a flight of birds or a bird song, a smile/glance exchanged with a random stranger, some one you don't know being kind to you etc.

I read an interesting book about feelings/emotions. In short: Everyone develops during early childhood mechanisms to handle emotions. At that time they were necessary to survive, but for adults these mechanisms are often not the most efficient way to handle these emotions, as they tend to block them (causing to return) opposed to allowing them, investigate them and try to make changes in life/relations with others to improve your situation/condition. Also something i learned from that book: Emotions might seem to be huge and last forever. That is not true, they are more like waves. They start small, increase and can look really big, but if you allow them, they will also decrease and disappear, and might provide insight in what is causing them so you can try to change that. It was a dutch translation from the book "living like you mean it", which, according to the translator, was originally a typically american style self-care book (Oprah Winfrey style).

Most important: You will have bad days, that nothing seems to work/go well. Accept these, as you are human like the rest of us, and every one has these. Forgiving yourself is also a way of loving yourself. You don't need to be punished if you didn't do well. Keep faith, and every day is a new chance to do things differently.

For the rest: If you feel you would benefit professional support, just get it. Some things are too big to handle yourself, and it's absolutely no shame to ask for help.

Wow... I can identify a lot with this from various experiences in my life over the years. Friends and family have indeed drifted, and I'm more often than not, completely alone. I've struggled with worthlessness for a long time because I always attributed my self worth to what I could provide or be capable of. Now weigh that against severe chronic illness and for a long time I was...well really not in a good place. And I wouldn't say that I necessarily am now, but I found some worth in being well enough to work.


This is something a lot of people fight with and I would say the thing you need to figure out is WHY you think you're a shitty person, and what exactly you need to ATONE for.

The good news is that you're a self-introspective person looking for answers. Everything you put here indicates you think you are "bad" or "less" etc. and want to be "better" or "more". You want to grow. That means you care, and caring is a big part of the battle.

WAM is an escape for a lot of us and it seems like it's very cathartic for you. If it's not harming you or those around you, then it's certainly not a bad thing.

I'm glad you found your way here and that you felt inclined to share. Wishing you the best on your journey friend!

What a good word, cathartic, I had to look it up to make sure I understood it and it blew my mind!


It explains that my current need/urge/desire to cry is to relieve pressure. Perfect word!

I thought this had something to do with The Pope!