I did not mean that in jest. Literally closing the stores themselves is something that in hindsight I could have and should have done (that part is not hard), even if just temporarily when I learned about this on Friday. I could have opened them back up if needed. That is something that will be done in the future if this happens again. What I meant about Leon not being able to hurt anyone before the door hit him: Just that. I was watching his inbox for activity while he was posting, then I eventually gagged it. At this time he's totally blocked from doing anything at this site, and I hope the presence of the account itself isn't seen as waffling; it's there for technical reasons now. He cannot harm anyone here. [Edit: The MostWam accounts have been deleted, or put into a dormitory state while technical issues are resolved.]

Thank you for everything MM. I think you're making an honorable decision. I take the emotional and physical safety of the models I hire extremely seriously. Without models? Without women? This community and our clip stores are nothing. you work hard, we appreciate you and it's an honor to be here.

Well, I was keeping it simple by not including things like dividends or comprehensive items in the profit, although I work with annual accounts every day and I'd say that the link between the BS and P&L that I outlined does hold true most of the time with businesses that small.

Admittedly I don't know much about selling companies, so yes I'm sure you're right that other value could be claimed. Although if Leon were to claim, say, a hefty sum for goodwill as well then good luck with that one under current circumstances...

Can we get some clarification about what the Mostwam team (not leon) were banned for?
Also what precedance has been set and how will it effect the rules of umd in the future?

If they were banned for keeping quiet about their boss being a convict then does that mean that everybody on UMD who is empolyed bysomebody else on the UMD who has a conviction is now obligated to instantly report it here or get banned?
Are people here with or who recieve convictions now going to be obligated to report them selvs here as part of UMD rules/tos etc? If its not in the rules that they shold not be here in the first place then it probably should be.

If they were banned because their work directly funds a convict then does that mean that any member of this site who is found to have given money to a convict will be banned?

As for producers in the same situation as wamgame, i dont see the difference between them cutting ties with Leon co, and the UMD cutting ties with Leon co. Leon made money from selling on the UMD just the same as he made money from renting out studio space. To ban these producers for past actions would be hypocritical.

Also for the Mostwam could take on new management and return argument, the only way that could work here now under this new percedent is if the whole company was given for free to somebody who wasnt one of the many people who knew about the conviction which is just never gunna happen.

Hopefully now people will be more understanding while looking at these issues that being against blanket ban scorched earth policy doesnt mean that you condone the behavior of the banned.

Just implemented a couple of new filters suggested by VioletVixen

https://umd.net/groups/topicid/908936

Basically its owner was found guilty of sexual misconduct in a court of law as well as in the eye of the community. Plus it was 2 1/2 years ago and this information was deliberately withheld from us this whole time.


I don't believe that occurrences like these could be prevented by any rules at UMD. It's only a hosting platform and does not control or commission any shoots. They are created all over the world by independent producers and then uploaded to stores they create. All producers who own stores here have been verified, and all of them are under strict supervision by me personally.

Our policy changes would be focused on what to do if and when this situation happens again. When it happens off-site and I have literally no data or evidence in my backend to verify a story, it's become clear that there must be some agreed standard on which to make decisions. I've proposed using court verdicts if available as the tentative standard, though I feel like that's an imperfect solution. Jury's out on this one.


Not for other things. But yes if they are the actual owners and it's a sexual guilty plea.


Yes, with the rule change I'm thinking of, they would have to disclose any sexual plea or conviction. Actually the TOS should bar any such people from joining. I'll add that right now.


No. We've decided not to ban people who, while they may have used their services before, have since severed contacts with the convict.


It makes more sense if you don't consider the goal to be monetary punishment. We just need to sever the ties.

How do you intend to amend the verification process to prevent producers with convictions or with otherwise poor practice from being able to sell through UMD? Is the verification an initial one-off, or does routine re-verification take place? Is there an obligation for producers to show and explain how they ensure that models in their content are verified and kept safe?

This whole situation looks a lot simpler to me than it appears to others. A producer commits an offense against a model and the legal process results in guilt being established, the court determines whether there shall be any restrictions on the conduct of that person or business. The one thing the court did not impose was an additional trail and conviction in the court of public opinion...

It should be obvious that any videos or photos associated with the shoot where the offense occurred are forever tainted and it is unethical to in any way be involved in their distribution. If one wishes to sever business connections with that person or business subsequently, fine, that is one's prerogative, however, it is just as fine to continue to offer that person's material unless that was prohibited by the court. Note that it is up to the court, not the court of public opinion, to enforce such a restriction...

I personally would recommend severing all business relationships with the person or business but would have no problem if any of the video or photo material from that person or business, except of course that tainted portion, ending up being distributed by another person or business entity. Unless of course, the court prohibits such distribution, in which case that would place one in the position of being complicit in the subterfuge and therefore unethical to do so...

What has been going on here is a trail in the court of public opinion which is always quite fashionable and politically correct, however, remember, being politically correct is really just another name for mob rule. And, never forget when you join a mob, it can turn on you too. Doubt that, then perhaps it time for you to read up a little on the French Revolution...

There are no rules of evidence, no procedural safeguards, no right of counsel, no juries, no judges, and, in fact, no real doubt of the outcome beyond who brought the rope and which tree shall we use. There was never any doubt how this whole situation would turn out once the politically correct trail by mob in the court of public opinion was allowed to begin...

I will now proceed to save the mob some time and simply point out that anyone who dares to take issue with mob rule is obviously "insensitive" and, hmm, if you're "insensitive", wow, when you think about it, that must also mean you're an abuser too! Gosh gee, that was easy, glad we got that figured out! Hey, bring the rope, doing right ain't got no end...

In my, presumably, though probably not, humble opinion, only one mistake was made and that was allowing a court of public opinion to be convened on this matter on one's watch. The matter would have been far better handled privately among the involved parties. The only thing that has been accomplished is really not any more savory than joining a lynch mob and feeling that guilty pleasure from being a member of the mob as you watch the victim swinging from the tree...

Back in 2018 i got chatting to Mia who ran WAMBAM productions. I create a thread about it https://umd.net/forums/what-happened-to-wambam-productions

I got chatting to her because it seemed to be very similar to mostwam, I wanted to hear the plans that she had for the production. what she said to me was very exciting. then the site overnight got shut down and everything stopped.
I waited a couple of months and then I Googled the name of the production to see if they were still around but not on UMD.

what I found was very very interesting. If you type WAMBAM productions into google, Lila (Mia) from Mostwam created the company with another person

I remember asking Mia about the idea of promoting it better, the scenes were released on UMD downloads but were never promoted on the forum itself, I didn't know anyone that had bought them, I had bought a couple (the scenes that I previewed in the pictures) I can't remember her response to that point, but I do remember she was very open to ideas about how to improve the content and Company by fans like me.

I do remember when the site disappeared, that same week Lila's name was replaced by "girl" in all mostwam UMD content, and it's stayed like that for many months.

So yeah I remember this when people were talking about maybe some Models taking ownership of Mostwam

I feel like SO much trouble could've been saved here had Leon just gotten out ahead of this, admitted what he did, apologized for it, left everything to do with WAM (MostWAM, his own site, his payment processing stuff, etc), promised to work on himself, stopped taking profits from people who borrowed his studio, and stepped away from the WAM business completely. Instead he (and others) tried to cover it up and just hoped no one would know. He was extremely selfish and self-centered.

He put Messmaster in a position where no matter what he did or how long it took to do it, someone was going to be upset about how he handled it and leave. He also put a lot of other innocent producers, models, etc in positions to lose a lot of money. People were going to be hurt financially regardless but the damage would've been minimized had he come clean to start with. Your anger should be with Leon, not MM. No matter what MM did, someone wasn't going to be happy. It's unfortunate, but that's life.

Obviously I don't get to dictate things, but it would've been cool had some of the models been given the opportunity to taken over MostWAM and got him out of it completely.

The sentence was in March 2022, that might have been the same time as the trial would have taken place, so I'm not sure what could have been disclosed regarding being charged earlier.

But frankly, MM, you were in a no-win situation. There's no right answer as to what steps you could or should have taken.

As I said before, making this whole thing into a silly culture war doesn't help anyone. The admin seems to have more or less decided what to do re Leon and MostWam and that's fine. If you don't exactly agree with their decision, that's fine too. They have shown to be somewhat open for discussion, which is great, so if you don't agree with their decision, say so and try to make your point like a normal person (ie, without reactionary buzzwords and insults).

There's absolutely no reason why a fetish community like this can't be more considerate and inclusive for the benefit of everyone here, and that starts with making everyone feel safer and more supported. In my personal experience, WAM works on two levels: it's either something you have fun with, or (as I believe it often is for me) it's something more along the lines of a mental disorder that hurts your ability to interact with people and form relationships. This community, arguably being the biggest of its kind on the net, can easily support both strands with a little patience and self-reflection.

This stupid fetish is why we're all here, regardless of whatever our broader political opinions may be. Sometimes I think it's worth remembering that, however obvious it might be.

Once aware, rather than delete links immediately trying to cover it up, then when that didn't work because Penny and others kept making noise while he left it up for debate... probably not a good idea.

> This thread should not have been allowed to happen. You should have closed it for further replies as soon as the news article was confirmed to be real and about Leon.

Oh, here is an obvious solution but according to Penny, Messmaster did not want Leon treated badly and demanded he wasn't a threat, I'm sure when he was sending her private messages to calm down and drop it.

Speaking of private messages, this is the same guy who is spying and reading our private messages, messages women are sending and receiving? Are they aware those messages send in these forums are not actually private, that he is reading their personal messages? How little are women respected here? And non-women for that matter, is it openly known and talked about that so-called private messages sent here are not private in the least?

Again, I sometimes have to deal with this in work life, and - again being as neutral as possible - there can be good reasons. Mental health, as you would expect, being number one. There are some offenders whose names never get into the public because doing so would create a suicide risk.

As an aside, the detail in the address is so that other people of the same name do not get caught by the report.

On further review, I support MM in wanting to disassociate with mostwam, but if it's not about ruining him financially, then you all can think about the 8yr old boy he has to support, maybe Lisa as well. Shutting down all avenues of revenue going into a bleak winter with inflation and energy prices even worse in the UK then in tbe US might be a little harsh/cruel on top of everything else.
I'm a husband and father of a small girl, I don't support Leon's actions but sometimes people need to stop and think about the big picture and all the people this affects not just Leon.

And they are. This is a critical point in time for UMD. People talk about this website like it's a family, but this situation has made it clear that it is anything but, with large sections of the community at war with each other. You can bury your head and say "don't like it, then leave", but that hurts everyone, from the models/producers with a smaller audience, to the community with less activity and an unwelcoming reputation.

Obviously not an expert on MostWAM finances, but I imagine that the amount of income from UMD was a minority figure in comparison to their independent sites. MostWAM still exists, Messmaster can't forcibly dissolve a company, they just can't use this space for advertisement. If people still want to support MostWAM, they will.

There's other jobs out there besides working in the adult film fetish industry. I don't think anyone is saying he should never be allowed to work anywhere again, just maybe not in the industry where the sexual assault occurred. We don't hire alcoholics to work in ABC stores. We don't hire convicted animal abusers to dog sit for us. We don't hire someone with a suspended license to drive buses.

Maybe we shouldn't let someone convicted of groping a model during a photoshoot continue to shoot photos and videos of naked and/or half-naked models partaking in a fetish he enjoys. He absolutely should be allowed to work and support his child in some way, just maybe not at the scene of the crime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3lsJmwNO40

Hopefully this will be my final comment on this thread as I'm planning to move on from recent events, but I did just want to repost here the new profile text added to my Wamgame2 account (expect a slight name change from that soon) as it sums up my current plans for the future after a very strange couple of days of being in the limelight and not by choice.

This is where you will see the new incarnation of Wamgame develop. For a while there will be more of the familiar style of scenes until the stock runs out. I will also be trying some smaller scale, simpler scenes with some of the familiar faces from the Wamgame roster and will also be trying a couple of new ideas to generate media.

I'm also toying with a name change as right now Wamgame feels tarnished from recent events. I've yet to decide. Either way there will be some cosmetic changes to the umd store over the coming days.

I'm definitely open to working with another UK-based studio that has facilities for Wetlook and messy scenes. Possibly someone that currently only does female wam who is interested in expanding into male as well.

Thanks to everyone for your amazing support during "the episode" both on the forum and in private. It really means a lot. Thanks also to Messmaster for his help in getting me through it.

My point exactly is demonstrated in this reply. By depriving him of any future business from others, you are precisely doing what I suggested in my post. Further some of the other replies by members are suggesting this and worse. So I read your statement to mean, if I arranged a shoot at Leon's studio in which he took no part other than beinmg the owner of the premises, under your rules, I too would be banned from marketing this through UMD.

I repeat that the offence did not even take place at those premises. I understand why you do not want Leon being an active member of UMD, but it does seem that you are determined to put him out of business.

I am sure there are more people here that thing you are a fucking loon and that Kelsey is not only sane, but that she makes valid points. Where your points are questionable.

Agree with everything you've said. MM made the right decision, as Mostwam should've said something but didn't and so gave him little choice. But at the same time, the financial hit Mostwam will take from the inevitable lost business will affect employees who had nothing to do with this via paycuts and redundancies, which is awful. I feel particularly bad for Lisa, who must be so distressed by all aspects of this. I noticed that her profile's gone now as well, which was probably inevitable but also very sad; I swapped some PMs with her over the years and she was lovely.

I posted on the Jessie thread back in 2018, saying that her fall from grace was the saddest and most shocking thing I'd ever seen on here. Well, I'm afraid that the downfall of Mostwam, who were for such a long time one of our best and most respected producers, has beaten it. And if there's another scandal out there that's somehow even worse still? Frankly, I just don't want to know.

I can't say it better than DungeonMasterOne said it when you asked before.

"Sorry but that is factually incorrect. "UMD" did not remove the links, that was an individual moderator who believed they were acting in the interests of preventing the risk of vigilante attacks on Leon's family. While the house number was not listed his real name and the street was. I was watching the thread at the time, I saw what happened in real time and flagged it to MM. He was surprised at the address detail being given (I gather that is not the norm in US court reporting) so I sent him a link to the Independent Press Standards Organisation's PDF document on court reporting, which is the main guideline for journalists here... Once MM had seen that and given the matter some consideration he restored both the link and screen-shot to the original post for everyone to see."

I'm glad this was moved to this forum because I'm a lurker and not invested enough in my kinks to read any other forums. However, as someone who purchased from this store in the past it's appreciated to know not to do it again. Unfortunately, I dug deeper and need some eye bleach for the toxic posting.

Just curious, is WAM not allowed on other websites that might allow clips to be put up 4 sale, or sites for only fans of the type of porn someone is selling? It's not like this producer is being banned from selling clips, they're being kicked off a private business that sells clips HERE. I don't understand what people are mad about - use your wallet and give the producer money somewhere else.

Given the screenshot, I think some clarification is needed. MM, which points do you agree with?

Honestly I really appreciate this @dalamar666 ( :love, but do not think any clarification is needed from MM (for me at least). I know where MM stands on all of the issues being discussed across these threads, and it is the exact same place I stand (believe it or not).

If @34Gate wants to lump me, *a person who dedicates most of their time, and all of their money towards humiliating other women (with green slime :halo* in with the "militant feminists" that have ruined his video games or comic books or whatever the fuck he's blaming them for, that's totally fine. It doesn't change the fact that Leon sexually assaulted a model, admitted to it in court and here, and also clearly showed that he shouldn't be trusted to be around other models thru his behavior (here, and elsewhere).

Sorry, you don't get to group us in with you. You're an anomaly not the rule. Most of us understand and support people demanding that their safety be prioritized.
Be gone if you don't like that.

Thanks for asking. BTW picture will be approved. It's in the queue. I literally was trying to bring truce to the situation. I did not say I agreed. I do NOT agree with his approach or his misogyny. That's why Messmistress and I have been removing his posts left and right. Heavy-handed demands to specific things, while still needing to be treated with respect and deference, do not help, and that's the sentiment that I do not disagree on.

I write every single inbox message and report with the expectation of it going public. Because that's how the internet works. I would be stupid to think somebody wouldn't share any of my messages publicly. I have no problem with that. But if yall can't understand that I have no tribe, and that I try to understand the underlying fear, uncertainty, or insecurity that a user is *actually* expressing and *that* is where I try to connect with people... if after all these years of me doing exactly this, you suddenly think there is some underling conspiracy or bias toward dicks, then I don't know what else to do.

[Edit: It's not in the queue. Where did you submit the picture?]

If you're having to remove every other comment posted by him, at what point does it stop being a slap on the wrist and a "don't do it again" and start being treated more severely?

If he's continuously breaking the rules, then why isn't he being banned? If he's not breaking any rules, why are his comments being removed?

This isn't meant to be a callout, it just feels like the TOS is either being ignored or it doesn't actually cover stuff that it probably should