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"Update to the Leon / Mostwam situation"
34Gate: You have been warned multiple times, you've not changed your behavior but you've actually gotten more aggressive. Your statements do not have any connection to this forum or topic. Your behavior is what is ruining the community. Almost all users agreed what was done by the producer was wrong and deserved punishment. Your continued assault on our community cannot be ignored.
With my admin powers, albeit light, I set fourth a motion to ban 34Gate for his behavior.
Citing "User Conduct" in the terms of service: " We are a relaxed community that is more concerned with honest opinion than political correctness. But for that to work, maturity and respect are always required. Spirited debates are healthy for any community, but put-downs are a lazy way to express your opinion. They ultimately denigrate the community itself rather than the person that was targeted. Bullying, racism, threats, shaming, pejorative name-calling, repetitive unwanted messages, rehashing old arguments out of context, and using loaded language are forms of venting and getting even, which have no place here. Bickering and snide comments might "feel" good but they always make things worse. We are all on the same team, so resolution comes from real conversation, not escalation." In my opinion 34Gate has repeatedly broken these rules.
Citing "Forcing an opinion": " Some disputes will involve a debate where facts are weighed and the site owner will ultimately commit to a decision on what action to take. After that, any requests to reconsider the decision will always be honored, and any new information will always be considered. But we will not tolerate posts and comments beating a dead horse, or repeatedly rehashing old arguments and pet peeves." 34Gate has broken these rules.
Citing: "Thread Hijacking": "Thread hijacking is the use of someone else's forum thread to bring up an unrelated issue or past grievance. Replies not related to the original topic will be removed. If it's a real issue then it deserves to be posted in its own thread." 34Gate has broken these rules.
Finally, citing: "Models are People": " Models here may portray characters who perform erotic acts and indulge your every fantasy, but please do not confuse the internet personality with the human behind it. When addressing a model or any other user, please show them the same respect that you would any person face-to-face. Avoid sending messages and comments that are too forward or aggressive, and if you don't get a response, take the hint." 34Gate has broken some of these guidelines.
With the power invested in me as a site administrator I set fourth a motion on behalf of the community to put our foot down and show that our guidelines and health of the community outweighs the rampant abuse and destruction caused by one user. I vote to ban 34Gate and access of future accounts.
With my admin powers, albeit light, I set fourth a motion to ban 34Gate for his behavior.
Citing "User Conduct" in the terms of service: " We are a relaxed community that is more concerned with honest opinion than political correctness. But for that to work, maturity and respect are always required. Spirited debates are healthy for any community, but put-downs are a lazy way to express your opinion. They ultimately denigrate the community itself rather than the person that was targeted. Bullying, racism, threats, shaming, pejorative name-calling, repetitive unwanted messages, rehashing old arguments out of context, and using loaded language are forms of venting and getting even, which have no place here. Bickering and snide comments might "feel" good but they always make things worse. We are all on the same team, so resolution comes from real conversation, not escalation." In my opinion 34Gate has repeatedly broken these rules.
Citing "Forcing an opinion": " Some disputes will involve a debate where facts are weighed and the site owner will ultimately commit to a decision on what action to take. After that, any requests to reconsider the decision will always be honored, and any new information will always be considered. But we will not tolerate posts and comments beating a dead horse, or repeatedly rehashing old arguments and pet peeves." 34Gate has broken these rules.
Citing: "Thread Hijacking": "Thread hijacking is the use of someone else's forum thread to bring up an unrelated issue or past grievance. Replies not related to the original topic will be removed. If it's a real issue then it deserves to be posted in its own thread." 34Gate has broken these rules.
Finally, citing: "Models are People": " Models here may portray characters who perform erotic acts and indulge your every fantasy, but please do not confuse the internet personality with the human behind it. When addressing a model or any other user, please show them the same respect that you would any person face-to-face. Avoid sending messages and comments that are too forward or aggressive, and if you don't get a response, take the hint." 34Gate has broken some of these guidelines.
With the power invested in me as a site administrator I set fourth a motion on behalf of the community to put our foot down and show that our guidelines and health of the community outweighs the rampant abuse and destruction caused by one user. I vote to ban 34Gate and access of future accounts.
10/27/22, 3:48pm: Note: User already gagged and we are currently taking steps to prevent any possible dupe accounts to be created for a period in order to get around this ban, after which the account itself will like be deleted. This is standard procedure for really getting people off of this site, not just looking good for PR. The account is neutered and can't do anything while undergoing this necessary recognizance. It's a process, not admin being indecisive to the point where public pressure is needed to change my mind... It's already happening. -MM
Thank you Filthy for your transparency with this situation. I think posts like this with the explanations spelled out will help heal the community. That it is not about what opinion you have, but how you express it to the community.
Filthy Girl said:
Your continued assault on our community cannot be ignored.
Your continued assault on our community cannot be ignored.
Note that user has already been banned from posting, and I deleted Filthy Girl's message thinking it was probably composed before she knew about the gag, and that it might only serve to inflame tensions asking for a process that's already happened. The deletion note did invite her to retort, and she did. So I undeleted the message. I added a note to her message but people will miss it, so I'll duplicate it here:
Messmaster said:
User already gagged and under IP watch for dupe accounts to be created for a period, after which the account itself will like be deleted. This is standard procedure for really getting people off of this site, not just looking good for PR. The account is neutered and can't do anything while undergoing this necessary recognizance. It's a process, not admin being indecisive to the point where public pressure is needed to change my mind... It's already happening -MM
User already gagged and under IP watch for dupe accounts to be created for a period, after which the account itself will like be deleted. This is standard procedure for really getting people off of this site, not just looking good for PR. The account is neutered and can't do anything while undergoing this necessary recognizance. It's a process, not admin being indecisive to the point where public pressure is needed to change my mind... It's already happening -MM
Stay messy, my friends
And a thank you for the mods for being on top of this
Making smut is easy. Making art takes more!
Thank goodness the vile Chris and 34 bloke have gone. I'm pretty calm about events in life and I can't comprehend what it would have been like for the girl I know to have come onto here to provide the information about Leon's court case. I just can't believe the level of sympathy there was from on here from so many people for Leon and against the victim. That spew has transferred to other female producers and a weird obsession for who I am as though that actually mattered. As I've said I appreciate that Messmaster has had to educate himself and his method did actually expose the Mostwam unprofessional behaviour and Leon's further exploits and exposing a bit more than the tip of the iceberg. My regret for here and Messmaster is the damage done by the contribution of some bad people. I don't agree with Penny in trying to destroy UMD but I do totally agree with her that Messmaster trying to be fair, let people talk has given him a no win situation and not shutting these people down straightaway has damaged this place. I have an inbox with messages from producers and customers (MM will know this is true) with their experience regarding Leon and his sexual antics. They are too scared to post. This is not because of Leon. This is because of the comments and weird angles against victims that have come out in this discussion.
I hope after this thread is locked along with the locked threads that Messmaster , Messmistress (that was news to me there was a Messmistress too ) and the mods like Wamchantelle and maybe with the advice of Candy,Kelsey,Creamy and I wish Penny they can go over each comment and decide really if those people should stay whether normal participants or producers. This screenshot of Candy's twitter does actually say a lot about peoples comments and the damage done. I'm not sure if its a joke about Regis being the vile accounts or not. If any of the women here think it's bad I'm not condemning Messmaster it's because,although I would have been swifter than him in removing people I genuinely think he cares very much about the Forum,the members and trying to do the right thing. I can only try and be balanced and take people at face value. So I'm Regis or anybody else famous. Messmaster knows the full story of how I was told about Leon's conviction,which was nothing to do with UMD or any Fetish website or other Forum. In addition the former Mostwam model (and her friends) are older people dating back before Al was even there.
I hope after this thread is locked along with the locked threads that Messmaster , Messmistress (that was news to me there was a Messmistress too ) and the mods like Wamchantelle and maybe with the advice of Candy,Kelsey,Creamy and I wish Penny they can go over each comment and decide really if those people should stay whether normal participants or producers. This screenshot of Candy's twitter does actually say a lot about peoples comments and the damage done. I'm not sure if its a joke about Regis being the vile accounts or not. If any of the women here think it's bad I'm not condemning Messmaster it's because,although I would have been swifter than him in removing people I genuinely think he cares very much about the Forum,the members and trying to do the right thing. I can only try and be balanced and take people at face value. So I'm Regis or anybody else famous. Messmaster knows the full story of how I was told about Leon's conviction,which was nothing to do with UMD or any Fetish website or other Forum. In addition the former Mostwam model (and her friends) are older people dating back before Al was even there.
 Love you, too |
Filthy Girl said: 34Gate: You have been warned multiple times, you've not changed your behavior but you've actually gotten more aggressive. Your statements do not have any connection to this forum or topic. Your behavior is what is ruining the community. Almost all users agreed what was done by the producer was wrong and deserved punishment. Your continued assault on our community cannot be ignored.
With my admin powers, albeit light, I set fourth a motion to ban 34Gate for his behavior.
Citing "User Conduct" in the terms of service: " We are a relaxed community that is more concerned with honest opinion than political correctness. But for that to work, maturity and respect are always required. Spirited debates are healthy for any community, but put-downs are a lazy way to express your opinion. They ultimately denigrate the community itself rather than the person that was targeted. Bullying, racism, threats, shaming, pejorative name-calling, repetitive unwanted messages, rehashing old arguments out of context, and using loaded language are forms of venting and getting even, which have no place here. Bickering and snide comments might "feel" good but they always make things worse. We are all on the same team, so resolution comes from real conversation, not escalation." In my opinion 34Gate has repeatedly broken these rules.
Citing "Forcing an opinion": " Some disputes will involve a debate where facts are weighed and the site owner will ultimately commit to a decision on what action to take. After that, any requests to reconsider the decision will always be honored, and any new information will always be considered. But we will not tolerate posts and comments beating a dead horse, or repeatedly rehashing old arguments and pet peeves." 34Gate has broken these rules.
Citing: "Thread Hijacking": "Thread hijacking is the use of someone else's forum thread to bring up an unrelated issue or past grievance. Replies not related to the original topic will be removed. If it's a real issue then it deserves to be posted in its own thread." 34Gate has broken these rules.
Finally, citing: "Models are People": " Models here may portray characters who perform erotic acts and indulge your every fantasy, but please do not confuse the internet personality with the human behind it. When addressing a model or any other user, please show them the same respect that you would any person face-to-face. Avoid sending messages and comments that are too forward or aggressive, and if you don't get a response, take the hint." 34Gate has broken some of these guidelines.
With the power invested in me as a site administrator I set fourth a motion on behalf of the community to put our foot down and show that our guidelines and health of the community outweighs the rampant abuse and destruction caused by one user. I vote to ban 34Gate and access of future accounts.
With my admin powers, albeit light, I set fourth a motion to ban 34Gate for his behavior.
Citing "User Conduct" in the terms of service: " We are a relaxed community that is more concerned with honest opinion than political correctness. But for that to work, maturity and respect are always required. Spirited debates are healthy for any community, but put-downs are a lazy way to express your opinion. They ultimately denigrate the community itself rather than the person that was targeted. Bullying, racism, threats, shaming, pejorative name-calling, repetitive unwanted messages, rehashing old arguments out of context, and using loaded language are forms of venting and getting even, which have no place here. Bickering and snide comments might "feel" good but they always make things worse. We are all on the same team, so resolution comes from real conversation, not escalation." In my opinion 34Gate has repeatedly broken these rules.
Citing "Forcing an opinion": " Some disputes will involve a debate where facts are weighed and the site owner will ultimately commit to a decision on what action to take. After that, any requests to reconsider the decision will always be honored, and any new information will always be considered. But we will not tolerate posts and comments beating a dead horse, or repeatedly rehashing old arguments and pet peeves." 34Gate has broken these rules.
Citing: "Thread Hijacking": "Thread hijacking is the use of someone else's forum thread to bring up an unrelated issue or past grievance. Replies not related to the original topic will be removed. If it's a real issue then it deserves to be posted in its own thread." 34Gate has broken these rules.
Finally, citing: "Models are People": " Models here may portray characters who perform erotic acts and indulge your every fantasy, but please do not confuse the internet personality with the human behind it. When addressing a model or any other user, please show them the same respect that you would any person face-to-face. Avoid sending messages and comments that are too forward or aggressive, and if you don't get a response, take the hint." 34Gate has broken some of these guidelines.
With the power invested in me as a site administrator I set fourth a motion on behalf of the community to put our foot down and show that our guidelines and health of the community outweighs the rampant abuse and destruction caused by one user. I vote to ban 34Gate and access of future accounts.
Thankyou
Messmaster said:
Thanks for the love
But I had nothing to do with WallowWorld. I started this site as a links list in '98 after being inspired by sites like WallowWorld and Messfun et al but I never had a hand in any of them. 
Jay said:
This is HIS site. It is HIS call to decide whatever positions and policies HE determines. The irony of this site originating from WallowWorld's owner getting caught up in their own legal issue (an underage model, as I recall) and his decision to go his own way and create UMD.net was a choice he made and a number of us followed over to here and stuck aroundI
This is HIS site. It is HIS call to decide whatever positions and policies HE determines. The irony of this site originating from WallowWorld's owner getting caught up in their own legal issue (an underage model, as I recall) and his decision to go his own way and create UMD.net was a choice he made and a number of us followed over to here and stuck aroundI
Thanks for the love
But I had nothing to do with WallowWorld. I started this site as a links list in '98 after being inspired by sites like WallowWorld and Messfun et al but I never had a hand in any of them. Was WallowWorld where Chevy Chase tried to take his family in the family truckster?
I haven't seen that or known about that. Thanks for the screenshot VAVAVIE.
Let me say something. Anybody going over to Penny's twitter to put her down or accuse her of whatever.... you are fucking disgusting. She is NOT an enemy. Yes, she has used her Twitter to put out plenty of lies about me and UMD. I don't care. She is hurt and in a vulnerable position and apparently sees us as a threat. Don't play into that. Her heart is genuine and I won't be convinced otherwise. She has emailed me and I am in the process of talking to her. She is not a bad person.
Treat Penny with respect and forgiveness. She has to live in as shitty a world as all the rest of us do.
Let me say something. Anybody going over to Penny's twitter to put her down or accuse her of whatever.... you are fucking disgusting. She is NOT an enemy. Yes, she has used her Twitter to put out plenty of lies about me and UMD. I don't care. She is hurt and in a vulnerable position and apparently sees us as a threat. Don't play into that. Her heart is genuine and I won't be convinced otherwise. She has emailed me and I am in the process of talking to her. She is not a bad person.
Treat Penny with respect and forgiveness. She has to live in as shitty a world as all the rest of us do.
Stay messy, my friends
KelseyRose said:
Leon is the sole owner and operator of Mostwam (and it's parent company). He has a 100% controlling interest in all of the company's businesses as of April.
He employs Al, who had mentioned in a comment that him and others do 90% of the customs work (which is true). But they work for Leon, and Leon's company.
Lisa was divested from Mostwam on May 7th of 2021.
I don't think I'm allowed to post links to the filing documents showing all of this (due to privacy), but they are all publicly available and very easy to google.
There is no longer any question about whether or not he did it. He admitted to doing it, not just in court, but also here on Saturday after being continually caught lying about his supposed innocence. Please read both of the original threads;
https://umd.net/forums/surprised-this-didnt-happen-years-ago-mo
https://umd.net/forums/mostwam-owner-convicted-for-groping-wam
There have been a lot of aggressively misogynistic comments throughout these threads in defense of Leon/Mostwam and this is not one of them. It's just as bad though.
To minimize what he did as "something stupid" is just so incredibly careless, inconsiderate, and disappointing.
Rather than try to explain the fear, pain, and trauma associated with being sexually assaulted as a woman (yes, having someone grab your boob IS sexual assault, even Billy Madison knew that), let me ask you guys this;
Imagine you get told to stay late at work tomorrow for some reason. You and your boss are alone in the building. Everyone else has gone home. Your boss comes over and tells you what a great job you did today. He sits down on your desk, inbetween you and the only available exit. He tells you he's been having a really hard time at home lately, and that he's always appreciated you. He then reaches down and grabs your dick, gripping the shaft with his hand and massaging the side gently with his fingers while he looks you lustfully in the eyes.
You freeze. You don't even know how to react. You can't even process what is happening, let alone the range of emotions running through your brain. Thankfully, your boss recognizes the look of terror on your face. He stops fondling your penis. He stands up from his desk, a look of shame on his face. He apologizes for misreading the situation and offers to let you go home.
You end up pressing charges against him. He gets convicted in court of his crime. He then hides that conviction from everyone at work and from all of the customers that buy your former company's products (I say *former*, because you no longer have a job because your boss did "something stupid" that day).
A year later, one of the other employees finds out what your boss did to you. Finds out that your boss has hidden this and has not done any of the things he's supposed to do to make the workplace safer.
That employee, concerned about potentially having their dick groped, approaches your boss about all this. Your boss fires this employee. This employee then outs your boss publicly for the crime he committed against you and for hiding that crime from the majority of the people that worked there, from all of the stores that carry his product, and from all of the customers that buy that product.
When confronted, your boss then lies about the crime he committed against you, claiming he was innocent. He gets caught lying. He then defends his lies with more lies. He gets caught doing that.
He then admits publicly, that yes, he did in fact sexually assault you at work, but he also gives a host of reasons why he did that, attempting to justify his behavior. He then assures everyone that protocols have been put in place to make sure that nothing like that ever happens again.
He then gets caught lying about that, and reveals that no such protocols have been in place, or if they were, they haven't been followed. He also reveals that many other employees have actually left the company due to his behavior post-sexually assaulting you.
As a result of his continued gross negligence and completely unacceptable behavior, the largest store that sells your (former) company's product decides to sever ties with him.
*Some* of the customers of that store are not happy about this, because apparently they care more about his product than they do about his reckless behavior while making it. They care more about his product than the personal safety of those involved in creating it. Most of all, they care more about his product than they care about YOU, a person who he sexually assaulted at work.
One of these unhappy customers says something like this in defense of your boss; "SuRe He DiD sOmEtHiNg StUpId, bUt..." and "It WaS jUsT a MoMeNt Of BaD jUdGeMeNt, sO..." etc. etc.
How would that make you feel @Proto?
How would that make ANY of you guys feel?
Pretty bad right?
Now pretend that instead of all of the above happening to you, it happened to a female WAM model.
And you don't have to pretend.
Because it did.
And Leon has admitted it did. Both in court in March, and on here as well (after he initially lied about supposedly being innocent). And he admitted to doing all of the other unacceptable foolish arrogant careless things mentioned above as well.
I love jerking off as much as anyone (quite possibly more than anyone), and Mostwam was my fav. producer, so believe me when I say that I think this whole thing sucks all the way through.
But what really really sucks is seeing casual, misguided, inconsiderate comments in support of a convicted (and admitted) sex offender. Even the ones that are made out of ignorance rather than malice.
Some of you guys really need to do some inner reflection over this Mostwam situation; why do you feel the way you do about it, and why do you feel as strongly as you do about it.
I can assure you I have asked myself these same questions, especially in regards to my initial instinct to want to believe his bullshit about being innocent.
There is a learning opportunity here for all of us, not just Leon.
I challenge everyone to take that opportunity, and I promise that you will be better off in the long run for it if you do.
protostar8 said:
So the big question is:
Is Leon Mostwam or is Mostwam a company that employs Leon. If it's the latter, he can bow out and let someone else do all the shoots. It's a more complicated ethics question if however Leon is the owner and sole operator of Mostwam.
So the big question is:
Is Leon Mostwam or is Mostwam a company that employs Leon. If it's the latter, he can bow out and let someone else do all the shoots. It's a more complicated ethics question if however Leon is the owner and sole operator of Mostwam.
Leon is the sole owner and operator of Mostwam (and it's parent company). He has a 100% controlling interest in all of the company's businesses as of April.
He employs Al, who had mentioned in a comment that him and others do 90% of the customs work (which is true). But they work for Leon, and Leon's company.
Lisa was divested from Mostwam on May 7th of 2021.
I don't think I'm allowed to post links to the filing documents showing all of this (due to privacy), but they are all publicly available and very easy to google.
protostar8 said:
At this point, he did something stupid to a model assuming what he said was true under oath but also pleading guilty is something that happens in the USA all the time when people aren't guilty but the government makes a deal that keeps you out of jail and you don't have to fight anything and you don't lose thousands in lawyer fees or risk other bad fallout. It's a realistic scenario b/c of how corrupt government institutions are. They know they have you over a cliff even if you're innocent.
At this point, he did something stupid to a model assuming what he said was true under oath but also pleading guilty is something that happens in the USA all the time when people aren't guilty but the government makes a deal that keeps you out of jail and you don't have to fight anything and you don't lose thousands in lawyer fees or risk other bad fallout. It's a realistic scenario b/c of how corrupt government institutions are. They know they have you over a cliff even if you're innocent.
There is no longer any question about whether or not he did it. He admitted to doing it, not just in court, but also here on Saturday after being continually caught lying about his supposed innocence. Please read both of the original threads;
https://umd.net/forums/surprised-this-didnt-happen-years-ago-mo
https://umd.net/forums/mostwam-owner-convicted-for-groping-wam
protostar8 said:
That being said, he's not the first to do something stupid and he won't be last producer to do something stupid. Some of those are still around. So people obviously have varying degrees of morality. I personally don't buy from the bad one anymore. Do not PM me asking about it. you either know or don't know.
Personally, he had a moment of bad judgement (possibly, depending on if he really did it or not or just got told by an attorney to take a deal instead of risk losing his kid) and he's being punished by their law system for it and let he have a chance at redemption over time. Or you think people will never change and you try to shutter a business for one man's actions. That's the choice.
That being said, he's not the first to do something stupid and he won't be last producer to do something stupid. Some of those are still around. So people obviously have varying degrees of morality. I personally don't buy from the bad one anymore. Do not PM me asking about it. you either know or don't know.
Personally, he had a moment of bad judgement (possibly, depending on if he really did it or not or just got told by an attorney to take a deal instead of risk losing his kid) and he's being punished by their law system for it and let he have a chance at redemption over time. Or you think people will never change and you try to shutter a business for one man's actions. That's the choice.
There have been a lot of aggressively misogynistic comments throughout these threads in defense of Leon/Mostwam and this is not one of them. It's just as bad though.
To minimize what he did as "something stupid" is just so incredibly careless, inconsiderate, and disappointing.
Rather than try to explain the fear, pain, and trauma associated with being sexually assaulted as a woman (yes, having someone grab your boob IS sexual assault, even Billy Madison knew that), let me ask you guys this;
Imagine you get told to stay late at work tomorrow for some reason. You and your boss are alone in the building. Everyone else has gone home. Your boss comes over and tells you what a great job you did today. He sits down on your desk, inbetween you and the only available exit. He tells you he's been having a really hard time at home lately, and that he's always appreciated you. He then reaches down and grabs your dick, gripping the shaft with his hand and massaging the side gently with his fingers while he looks you lustfully in the eyes.
You freeze. You don't even know how to react. You can't even process what is happening, let alone the range of emotions running through your brain. Thankfully, your boss recognizes the look of terror on your face. He stops fondling your penis. He stands up from his desk, a look of shame on his face. He apologizes for misreading the situation and offers to let you go home.
You end up pressing charges against him. He gets convicted in court of his crime. He then hides that conviction from everyone at work and from all of the customers that buy your former company's products (I say *former*, because you no longer have a job because your boss did "something stupid" that day).
A year later, one of the other employees finds out what your boss did to you. Finds out that your boss has hidden this and has not done any of the things he's supposed to do to make the workplace safer.
That employee, concerned about potentially having their dick groped, approaches your boss about all this. Your boss fires this employee. This employee then outs your boss publicly for the crime he committed against you and for hiding that crime from the majority of the people that worked there, from all of the stores that carry his product, and from all of the customers that buy that product.
When confronted, your boss then lies about the crime he committed against you, claiming he was innocent. He gets caught lying. He then defends his lies with more lies. He gets caught doing that.
He then admits publicly, that yes, he did in fact sexually assault you at work, but he also gives a host of reasons why he did that, attempting to justify his behavior. He then assures everyone that protocols have been put in place to make sure that nothing like that ever happens again.
He then gets caught lying about that, and reveals that no such protocols have been in place, or if they were, they haven't been followed. He also reveals that many other employees have actually left the company due to his behavior post-sexually assaulting you.
As a result of his continued gross negligence and completely unacceptable behavior, the largest store that sells your (former) company's product decides to sever ties with him.
*Some* of the customers of that store are not happy about this, because apparently they care more about his product than they do about his reckless behavior while making it. They care more about his product than the personal safety of those involved in creating it. Most of all, they care more about his product than they care about YOU, a person who he sexually assaulted at work.
One of these unhappy customers says something like this in defense of your boss; "SuRe He DiD sOmEtHiNg StUpId, bUt..." and "It WaS jUsT a MoMeNt Of BaD jUdGeMeNt, sO..." etc. etc.
How would that make you feel @Proto?
How would that make ANY of you guys feel?
Pretty bad right?
Now pretend that instead of all of the above happening to you, it happened to a female WAM model.
And you don't have to pretend.
Because it did.
And Leon has admitted it did. Both in court in March, and on here as well (after he initially lied about supposedly being innocent). And he admitted to doing all of the other unacceptable foolish arrogant careless things mentioned above as well.
I love jerking off as much as anyone (quite possibly more than anyone), and Mostwam was my fav. producer, so believe me when I say that I think this whole thing sucks all the way through.
But what really really sucks is seeing casual, misguided, inconsiderate comments in support of a convicted (and admitted) sex offender. Even the ones that are made out of ignorance rather than malice.
Some of you guys really need to do some inner reflection over this Mostwam situation; why do you feel the way you do about it, and why do you feel as strongly as you do about it.
I can assure you I have asked myself these same questions, especially in regards to my initial instinct to want to believe his bullshit about being innocent.
There is a learning opportunity here for all of us, not just Leon.
I challenge everyone to take that opportunity, and I promise that you will be better off in the long run for it if you do.
Hi Kelsey, I'm on the same page as you so don't think I'm being too pedantic please but a couple of the facts you've mentioned are slightly incorrect so forgive me for just letting you know as matter of record in case any of the info is needed. Obviously, Leon has gone now but here goes.
"Leon is the sole owner and operator of Mostwam (and it's parent company). He has a 100% controlling interest in all of the company's businesses as of April."
It was actually 10 days after Lisa left him in August 2020
"He employs Al, who had mentioned in a comment that him and others do 90% of the customs work (which is true). But they work for Leon, and Leon's company."
Although Al said that he and Lisa do 90% and implicating the two of them in operating the company whilst keeping Leon's crime and danger to models quiet I don't believe for one second Leon wasn't involved more than that and his own words regarding the May 2022 trip disaster confirm that along with his huge amount of Leonmoomin posts promoting scenes.
"Lisa was divested from Mostwam on May 7th of 2021"
Leon actually removed her 40% shares 10 days after she left him in August 2020 if you read his form and then CH take a while to process.
Just to be absolutely crystal clear the model he assaulted and was prosecuted for is NOT the person who has outed him here. I personally do not even know 100% who that model and it's none of our business.
The model that Leon and Al think it is NOT the person who has outed him here.
The models who went on the trip with him in May are NOT the person who outed him here.
I outed him,in hindsight I would have sent a private message to Messmaster to avoid the shitshow BUT it has exposed many people as being vile and showing their true colours.
The girl that told me wasn't on a witch hunt. She just found Leon vile back in the day as did others and through chance about former careers with somebody else it came out she was a model. That led to her saying a company name (not Mostwam) and Leon and her saying she knew he had been prosecuted from one of the other girls. His name was then googled on the her phone and the newspaper article came up. I read it. She sent me the link. I looked at the UMD and saw no mention of it from any current Mostwam account. I thought that was not right and posted the article. A lot of people embarrassed themselves then. My girl contacted her former colleagues and there is more to discuss for them away from this forum regarding Leon.
So it was me,I don't really care about nutcases trying to bully or intimidate me from behind a keyboard,more so when they are morally bankrupt.
I hope that helps Kelsey
Messmaster said:
Note that user has already been banned from posting, and I deleted Filthy Girl's message thinking it was probably composed before she knew about the gag, and that it might only serve to inflame tensions asking for a process that's already happened. The deletion note did invite her to retort, and she did. So I undeleted the message. I added a note to her message but people will miss it, so I'll duplicate it here:
Filthy Girl said:
Your continued assault on our community cannot be ignored.
Your continued assault on our community cannot be ignored.
Note that user has already been banned from posting, and I deleted Filthy Girl's message thinking it was probably composed before she knew about the gag, and that it might only serve to inflame tensions asking for a process that's already happened. The deletion note did invite her to retort, and she did. So I undeleted the message. I added a note to her message but people will miss it, so I'll duplicate it here:
Messmaster said:
User already gagged and under IP watch for dupe accounts to be created for a period, after which the account itself will like be deleted. This is standard procedure for really getting people off of this site, not just looking good for PR. The account is neutered and can't do anything while undergoing this necessary recognizance. It's a process, not admin being indecisive to the point where public pressure is needed to change my mind... It's already happening -MM
User already gagged and under IP watch for dupe accounts to be created for a period, after which the account itself will like be deleted. This is standard procedure for really getting people off of this site, not just looking good for PR. The account is neutered and can't do anything while undergoing this necessary recognizance. It's a process, not admin being indecisive to the point where public pressure is needed to change my mind... It's already happening -MM
Thanks. I have to say I would never have spotted your little notes if you hadn't told me they were there. They are hard to spot.
Just also noting that UMD does keep a running "score" for every user on here. Each day the user with the top score gets Wammer of the Day, but all other users also have a score.
Flags contribute to a negative score for the user and the content in question. That's how forum posts get buried (and with even more flags they would be auto-deleted). With enough flags overall, the user themself will get a score negative enough that I can have UMD auto-gag them. This will be implemented by the end of the evening. The community literally gets the power to gag a user. Thresholds and all that stuff will be knobs that I can turn.
[Edit: In case anyone wants to know, most negative flags currently contribute to -1000 points. Loves contribute +10 points, views/clicks usually +1 point. Forum bury threshold is -1500 and delete thresh is currently -3000 points. That means at least 3 flags, but will be counteracted by people liking it, etc. So 4 flags is likely to get something deleted. Most people complain publicly but do not flag.]
Flags contribute to a negative score for the user and the content in question. That's how forum posts get buried (and with even more flags they would be auto-deleted). With enough flags overall, the user themself will get a score negative enough that I can have UMD auto-gag them. This will be implemented by the end of the evening. The community literally gets the power to gag a user. Thresholds and all that stuff will be knobs that I can turn.
[Edit: In case anyone wants to know, most negative flags currently contribute to -1000 points. Loves contribute +10 points, views/clicks usually +1 point. Forum bury threshold is -1500 and delete thresh is currently -3000 points. That means at least 3 flags, but will be counteracted by people liking it, etc. So 4 flags is likely to get something deleted. Most people complain publicly but do not flag.]
Stay messy, my friends
Messmaster said: I haven't seen that or known about that. Thanks for the screenshot VAVAVIE.
Let me say something. Anybody going over to Penny's twitter to put her down or accuse her of whatever.... you are fucking disgusting. She is NOT an enemy. Yes, she has used her Twitter to put out plenty of lies about me and UMD. I don't care. She is hurt and in a vulnerable position and apparently sees us as a threat. Don't play into that. Her heart is genuine and I won't be convinced otherwise. She has emailed me and I am in the process of talking to her. She is not a bad person.
Treat Penny with respect and forgiveness. She has to live in as shitty a world as all the rest of us do.
Let me say something. Anybody going over to Penny's twitter to put her down or accuse her of whatever.... you are fucking disgusting. She is NOT an enemy. Yes, she has used her Twitter to put out plenty of lies about me and UMD. I don't care. She is hurt and in a vulnerable position and apparently sees us as a threat. Don't play into that. Her heart is genuine and I won't be convinced otherwise. She has emailed me and I am in the process of talking to her. She is not a bad person.
Treat Penny with respect and forgiveness. She has to live in as shitty a world as all the rest of us do.
Well I think this post explains pretty well why I've respected what you have tried to do regarding the Leon scenario even if we had some different opinions of how to handle it.
I genuinely hope Penny can understand your motives at some point and any of the girls triggered by any aspect of the whole scenario can get through it. It would be great if she could return and moving forwards the Forum benefit from some of the girls here who appear to be absolute diamonds. My suggestion for admin would be some sort of place where any admin could put a thread in an emergency investigation mode for a period of time (like 48 hours) so it was know 'something' had happened but evil people couldn't pile on. I know a small version of this was done by Wamchantelle but by being seen it led people to make cover up accusations.
If all was hidden to start with then after 48 hours all content bar offensive stuff could be revealed. You might have this system already somehow but I think its the start of a good idea.
VAVAVIE said: I know a small version of this was done by Wamchantelle but by being seen it led people to make cover up accusations.
If all was hidden to start with then after 48 hours all content bar offensive stuff could be revealed
If all was hidden to start with then after 48 hours all content bar offensive stuff could be revealed
That would have made the conspiracy theories exponentially worse. It's like a damned if you do / damned if you don't type situation.
Stay messy, my friends
VAVAVIE said: After all this I've just got told off by the wife for being on here so much the last few days and have been ordered to bed and me whimpering that I haven't actually had time to look at any of the messy pics 
Night night all.
Night night all. I just have to give a shout-out to Messmistress. She has been my absolute rock in all this. Love you baby
Stay messy, my friends
Messmaster said: I haven't seen that or known about that. Thanks for the screenshot VAVAVIE.
Let me say something. Anybody going over to Penny's twitter to put her down or accuse her of whatever.... you are fucking disgusting. She is NOT an enemy. Yes, she has used her Twitter to put out plenty of lies about me and UMD. I don't care. She is hurt and in a vulnerable position and apparently sees us as a threat. Don't play into that. Her heart is genuine and I won't be convinced otherwise. She has emailed me and I am in the process of talking to her. She is not a bad person.
Treat Penny with respect and forgiveness. She has to live in as shitty a world as all the rest of us do.
Let me say something. Anybody going over to Penny's twitter to put her down or accuse her of whatever.... you are fucking disgusting. She is NOT an enemy. Yes, she has used her Twitter to put out plenty of lies about me and UMD. I don't care. She is hurt and in a vulnerable position and apparently sees us as a threat. Don't play into that. Her heart is genuine and I won't be convinced otherwise. She has emailed me and I am in the process of talking to her. She is not a bad person.
Treat Penny with respect and forgiveness. She has to live in as shitty a world as all the rest of us do.
Pretty sure it's two names that come to mind, chris and 34. or are they the same person, makes me wonder now.
cowboi1 said:
Pretty sure it's two names that come to mind, chris and 34. or are they the same person, makes me wonder now.
Pretty sure it's two names that come to mind, chris and 34. or are they the same person, makes me wonder now.
Please don't do that. Don't spread the FUD. On here we have actual records and IP address that can be looked up. If you are suspicious of a user, please ask me and I'll gladly look them up.
I have no proof that these two people are the same person.
Stay messy, my friends
Caution said:
Was the original purpose to allow 34Gate countless opportunities to insult other users?
Mission accomplished, if that's the case.
I'm all for open discourse, even on sensitive subjects, but seeing his inflammatory posts get pass after pass with little more than "please be nice," has really been disappointing.
"He's gagged now." - Ok great, the damage is already done.
Messmaster said: I think this thread is about done serving its original purpose. It'll be locked sometime tomorrow so that we can move on. If you need to say something else feel free to start new threads if you need to. 
Was the original purpose to allow 34Gate countless opportunities to insult other users?
Mission accomplished, if that's the case.
I'm all for open discourse, even on sensitive subjects, but seeing his inflammatory posts get pass after pass with little more than "please be nice," has really been disappointing.
"He's gagged now." - Ok great, the damage is already done.
Yes. As much as I have compassion for what Mess Master is going through, not taking action has more consequences than taking action in this situation. When the conversation got out of hand it gave voice to and empowered misogynistic behavior. At a certain point, this is not practicing diplomacy this is practicing complacency. The conversation was more damaging and upsetting to the women here than the actual news itself. The only good that has come of this is now those unsafe people in this community have been exposed.
CreamMeAgain said:
Yes. As much as I have compassion for what Mess Master is going through, not taking action has more consequences than taking action in this situation.
Yes. As much as I have compassion for what Mess Master is going through, not taking action has more consequences than taking action in this situation.
I disagree. Action was being taken, behind the scenes, using the exact methods that have kept this site peaceful for 25 years. This was an extraordinary case that caught us completely by surprise, and it was still handled faster than your average video takedown request at pornhub. I've been very clear about the steps I have been taking. Agree or disagree with how it was handled, but at this point, everybody knows action was being taken.
Also as I mentioned earlier, flagging content helps me and the community massively. There are even automatic consequences for a user who has been flagged.
Please flag anything in the future you find inappropriate.
Stay messy, my friends
CreamMeAgain said:
Yes. As much as I have compassion for what Mess Master is going through, not taking action has more consequences than taking action in this situation. When the conversation got out of hand it gave voice to and empowered misogynistic behavior. At a certain point, this is not practicing diplomacy this is practicing complacency. The conversation was more damaging and upsetting to the women here than the actual news itself. The only good that has come of this is now those unsafe people in this community have been exposed.
Caution said:
Was the original purpose to allow 34Gate countless opportunities to insult other users?
Mission accomplished, if that's the case.
I'm all for open discourse, even on sensitive subjects, but seeing his inflammatory posts get pass after pass with little more than "please be nice," has really been disappointing.
"He's gagged now." - Ok great, the damage is already done.
Messmaster said: I think this thread is about done serving its original purpose. It'll be locked sometime tomorrow so that we can move on. If you need to say something else feel free to start new threads if you need to.
Was the original purpose to allow 34Gate countless opportunities to insult other users?
Mission accomplished, if that's the case.
I'm all for open discourse, even on sensitive subjects, but seeing his inflammatory posts get pass after pass with little more than "please be nice," has really been disappointing.
"He's gagged now." - Ok great, the damage is already done.
Yes. As much as I have compassion for what Mess Master is going through, not taking action has more consequences than taking action in this situation. When the conversation got out of hand it gave voice to and empowered misogynistic behavior. At a certain point, this is not practicing diplomacy this is practicing complacency. The conversation was more damaging and upsetting to the women here than the actual news itself. The only good that has come of this is now those unsafe people in this community have been exposed.
Sigh... I think were spending too much time looking at one angle.
heres the conundrum, you come down hard early, that enrages them more and you end with a sockpuppet infestation. ive been a forum admin myself, it's hard to find a balance between oppressing and allowing peaceful discourse.
Sometimes it's better to let them slip and have them screw up so massively in public they do the job or dotting the I's and croissing the T's for ya.
in the end there was going to be no solution that makes everyone walk away happy, thats something to face here.
However we cannot ever condone going after someone just because they did what they thought was right which sadly did occur in a few threads.
Trolls wont stop being trolls, best advice to avoid disappointment from trolls is to never lay a bar for how low they can go, as you will find they will dig under it just to prove you wrong.
The other part to addres is, your never going to be fully prepared, how many of you can honestly say you would have done different if that was someone you have known for years, you are finding out the next day hid a case of sexual assault he was convicted for. your going to be in shock, albeit paralyzed and it's going to take time to regroup and handle the situation here.
You got to understand I think this came as a shock to every person around. your not waking up in the morning wondering whos gonna shock you with the unthinkable today.
Is that it? Is it over now? Can I take the sandbags down and go back to enjoying awesome content? 
Seriously though, MM, thankyou for your very professional handling of all this. I (and the vast majority of us here) recognise and appreciate the hard work that you put into creating and maintaining a safe and fun space for us to explore this side of ourselves.
This situation hasn't been easy on you - that's obvious from what you've shared on the various threads associated with what happened. The fact that it's blown up into a sociopolitical tirade right out of the 1980s isn't on you.
I have so much hope that the vast majority of members here are right thinking good people who are probably - like me - a bit bewildered by all this, and especially by some of the reactions to it.
In all honesty, I've been here as long as UMD has existed, but for almost all of that time I've been content to either not have a profile or to have an invisible one. This has made me seriously consider just leaving altogether. Mainly because I feel like this whole thing, including these threads, has been a huge step backwards for this community.
I won't leave though. Because I know that this is still ultimately a fun and SAFE place.
Apologies... I'm done - I promise
Seriously though, MM, thankyou for your very professional handling of all this. I (and the vast majority of us here) recognise and appreciate the hard work that you put into creating and maintaining a safe and fun space for us to explore this side of ourselves.
This situation hasn't been easy on you - that's obvious from what you've shared on the various threads associated with what happened. The fact that it's blown up into a sociopolitical tirade right out of the 1980s isn't on you.
I have so much hope that the vast majority of members here are right thinking good people who are probably - like me - a bit bewildered by all this, and especially by some of the reactions to it.
In all honesty, I've been here as long as UMD has existed, but for almost all of that time I've been content to either not have a profile or to have an invisible one. This has made me seriously consider just leaving altogether. Mainly because I feel like this whole thing, including these threads, has been a huge step backwards for this community.
I won't leave though. Because I know that this is still ultimately a fun and SAFE place.
Apologies... I'm done - I promise
Before this thread is locked, I do have a question that is related to the topic of everything by association. I may not remember and I may have just missed it. What are the plans for anyone on the forums who has a store who has Sexually Assaulted someone? Does what has happened with Leon set a precedence? Will there be background checks done on people, or is that process still TBD?
Messmaster said:
I disagree. Action was being taken, behind the scenes, using the exact methods that have kept this site peaceful for 25 years. This was an extraordinary case that caught us completely by surprise, and it was still handled faster than your average video takedown request at pornhub. I've been very clear about the steps I have been taking. Agree or disagree with how it was handled, but at this point, everybody knows action was being taken.
Also as I mentioned earlier, flagging content helps me and the community massively. There are even automatic consequences for a user who has been flagged.
Please flag anything in the future you find inappropriate.
CreamMeAgain said:
Yes. As much as I have compassion for what Mess Master is going through, not taking action has more consequences than taking action in this situation.
Yes. As much as I have compassion for what Mess Master is going through, not taking action has more consequences than taking action in this situation.
I disagree. Action was being taken, behind the scenes, using the exact methods that have kept this site peaceful for 25 years. This was an extraordinary case that caught us completely by surprise, and it was still handled faster than your average video takedown request at pornhub. I've been very clear about the steps I have been taking. Agree or disagree with how it was handled, but at this point, everybody knows action was being taken.
Also as I mentioned earlier, flagging content helps me and the community massively. There are even automatic consequences for a user who has been flagged.
Please flag anything in the future you find inappropriate.
Mess Master, I care for you as a person, I want you to be well. I know you are overwhelmed and working on very little at this point. I know you're doing everything you can to keep everything going and you're acting on the best intentions. I appreciate everything you're doing, thank you for keeping it together. I don't think you're a bad person just because you made mistakes. But I'm not going to take the blame for anything here, I've been fair in how I've addressed this. I'm not the problem and I'm not the reason for anything that's happening right now.
CreamMeAgain said:
Mess Master, I care for you as a person, I want you to be well. I know you are overwhelmed and working on very little at this point. I know you're doing everything you can to keep everything going and you're acting on the best intentions. I appreciate everything you're doing, thank you for keeping it together. I don't think you're a bad person just because you made mistakes. But I'm not going to take the blame for anything here, I've been fair in how I've addressed this. I'm not the problem and I'm not the reason for anything that's happening right now.
Messmaster said:
I disagree. Action was being taken, behind the scenes, using the exact methods that have kept this site peaceful for 25 years. This was an extraordinary case that caught us completely by surprise, and it was still handled faster than your average video takedown request at pornhub. I've been very clear about the steps I have been taking. Agree or disagree with how it was handled, but at this point, everybody knows action was being taken.
Also as I mentioned earlier, flagging content helps me and the community massively. There are even automatic consequences for a user who has been flagged.
Please flag anything in the future you find inappropriate.
CreamMeAgain said:
Yes. As much as I have compassion for what Mess Master is going through, not taking action has more consequences than taking action in this situation.
Yes. As much as I have compassion for what Mess Master is going through, not taking action has more consequences than taking action in this situation.
I disagree. Action was being taken, behind the scenes, using the exact methods that have kept this site peaceful for 25 years. This was an extraordinary case that caught us completely by surprise, and it was still handled faster than your average video takedown request at pornhub. I've been very clear about the steps I have been taking. Agree or disagree with how it was handled, but at this point, everybody knows action was being taken.
Also as I mentioned earlier, flagging content helps me and the community massively. There are even automatic consequences for a user who has been flagged.
Please flag anything in the future you find inappropriate.
Mess Master, I care for you as a person, I want you to be well. I know you are overwhelmed and working on very little at this point. I know you're doing everything you can to keep everything going and you're acting on the best intentions. I appreciate everything you're doing, thank you for keeping it together. I don't think you're a bad person just because you made mistakes. But I'm not going to take the blame for anything here, I've been fair in how I've addressed this. I'm not the problem and I'm not the reason for anything that's happening right now.
I'm probably speaking out of turn. Sorry, but all this has really bothered me. Just like everyone else.
From what I can see, and have read, you're right. You're not a contributing factor to the damage caused here. You've made valid and pertinent points and you've been respectful to everyone all the way through.
My view is - please don't worry
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