Ariel followed by MPV and Jayce. As you could tell I really like mud, costumes, and masturbation

In alphabetical order: -

1. Artscene/Aquantics
2. Bill Shipton
3. Mostwam
4. Rob Blaine
5. Sweetsophie

I find it really interesting that the #2 and #3 all-time favorite WAM producers only do clothed WAM. This suggests that, even though the large majority of WAMmers supposedly only want nude WAM (#2 producer Rich recently estimated in a forum thread that only 20% of WAMmers would consider buying non-nude WAM), a lot of us actually enjoy and buy a MIX of clothed and nude WAM.

Food for thought...

The interesting thing I find as a producer, pieromaniac, is that almost NONE of my sales come from anyone who has ever posted on UMD

Of my top twenty customers, I think only 3 (it may be 4) has posted more than 5 times on the forums

There are huge huge numbers of UMDers who never ever post on the forums and also a good number of loyal, engaging, interesting forumites who aren't in a position to buy many/any clips.

That was among my biggest shocks as a producer, even tho other producers had told me this was the case.

I think it s therefore the case that perhaps those who post are more likely to be enthusiasts/traditionalists which may explain why the more 'pureist' side of wam, the fully clothed wam, is rated so highly on this thread .

We are perhaps seeing the votes from the 'party activists' rather than the 'electorate as a whole', to use an analogy

Clearly of course there is a market for really well done fully clothed WAM, as these producers have had great success, & I hugely admire them.

However speaking as someone who likes fully clothed wam as much as naked WAM, I find my naked wam scenes outsell my fully clothed scenes by more than 2 to 1.

Of course this could be because I am somehow doing naked wam better than I do fully clothed..obut I think it is more likely to be because the general consumers like the more sexual side of wam.

So, while this survey is very interesting, I doesn't reflect seem to reflect the commercial reality of the whole marketplace, certainly as I have experienced it as a producer.

Which is also a very long way of also saying, if only Myds was consistently buying and loving my stuff, I'd have had to throw in the towel a long while back

THIS!!! When we were actively producing material, I would estimate that 96% of my sales were to fellas who had NEVER once posted in the forums or even commented on a photo. I always found that interesting!

Mrs. Bee

I don't always associate a customer's real name with their "UMD name" (which is for the best), so I tend to forget who actually buys what. That said, the bulk of my sales come from people who don't post here regularly or at all.

Sometimes I get a good "silent majority" post... AKA one with very few comments, but a lot of sales. Those are good! Occasionally I get one where the amount of comments exceeds the amount of sales. Those are bad.

I don't think anyone mentioned Robby/WLP because it's been close to 15 years since his last release. (By that measure, I really love Paul's House Of Pies for their short-but-glorious run in the late 90's.)
Blue Leopard was unique but underappreciated even back when he was producing... which, again, was over a decade ago.
Fawn/WAMF and Phoebe are remembered less fondly now that they've burned a lot of bridges within the community.
Very surprised that Kay and Mrs. Bee weren't mentioned... Perhaps people consider them "amateur WAMmers" rather than producers? Back in the day there used to be a distinction (producers were the "big" ones, like MessyFun and Splosh)... Now not so much.

I would think that, unless most of your sales are coming from a UMD store (where you can see customers' screennames, if they've allowed this in their preferences), producers generally wouldn't know how their customers did or didn't match up to UMD screennames, except in the case of a small number of exceptionally loyal customers. But I must be wrong, based on the figures the the good Reverend and Mrs. Bee have cited.


Yeah, but it's been even longer since there was a new Messy Fun release, and Mr. Blaine managed to make the top ten anyway.



It hardly matters in this context, but I thought he was producing in the late aughts. That's when I bought his videos anyway, but maybe I got them well after they came out.


It would seem a similar factor has hobbled PieFightGirls' reputation as well. Karma's a bitch.


That's an interesting point. Both Kay and, much more so, Mrs. Bee, posted as amateurs on here for a good period of time before they began actually selling their stuff. So maybe they aren't perceived as professional producers so much as exceptionally beloved amateurs. And lest we forget, the word "amateur" comes from the Latin word for love, meaning people who do something for the love of it, rather than for the lure of filthy lucre.

Piero, I was referring to my sales here on the UMD. Most of my sales were to folks whose screennames were visible to me or to members who may have had their purchasing preferences set to private but still messaged me regarding said purchases, so that is what I'm basing my assumption on. But since I never had more than say 20-25 downloads available for sale, perhaps my sample size is too small for meaningful analysis.

And thank you for the mention, btw.

Mrs. Bee

Thanks for remembering me!

I never had any intention of becoming a producer; I loved posting because of the comments and the attention I received. Just being honest. I was convinced to start selling films after I did the Pie For Every Reply gig and I received so many messages asking for the films and not just the pictures of the pie mess.

Like Mrs. Bee, I had a relatively small store; only 25 films on the Mothership and 4 or 5 on the UMD. I have to say, my films sold great and we made more money than I ever expected. And I'll also echo what others have said, a large majority of sales at both sites were the silent majority; people who hardly ever post here. I could never figure that one out.

And while we're on the subject, I loved so many sites here and it's tough to state who was my favorite producer, but my top 5, in no particular order are;

Slapstick Stuff
MessyGirl
WAMFan
Ariel
Lenny

PGKay

PGK

Thanks for kind words.

I always wanted to get you, Mrs. Bee, Melissa and Leah in one shoot

Offer is still open to you all!!

I hope hubby is doing well. I know he is going througha tough time like myself.

Lenny

Thanks Lenny

I wish I had taken you up on your offer a few years ago when I was really into this whole messy scene

And Jhub is doing great. He's defying the odds on a truly horrible form of cancer.


PGKay

Mud Puddle Visuals - Lodoski has my vote for lifetime achievement award!

Gosh....not sure it's even fair to everyone who works hard at this to pick one producer.
Messy Jessie of course from a personal point of view but at the moment I'm biased!

I'd echo what others have said, for my UMD download stores, of those who reveal their usernames (you can turn that off per-download as well as in the preferences), somewhere north of 90% are not regular forum posters. But then the UMD has tens of thousands of signed up accounts but only a few hundred regular posters. Back in the days of Usenet it used to be said there were 97 lurkers for every 3 posters, and that ratio has probably grown even larger since, especially in places like fetish forums.

Way back in the 90s Rob Blaine once told me that he saw his market breakdown as being that 60% wanted only fully clothed, 10% wanted to see messy stripping, and 30% wanted only full nude. There's certainly more nudity in WAM now than there was 20 years ago, but there's clearly also a not insignificant market for fully clothed scenes. Though another factor to consider is that a large part of the WAM market appears to be only interested in pie-in-the-face, where what the model is wearing (or not) is more or less irrelevant as long as the pie hits are good. Though also consider that all wetlook is fully clothed WAM - the generally accepted definition of wetlook is "getting wet in clothes not intended for getting wet in" - so if the model is nude, in a bikini, or a swimsuit, it's not wetlook, though it can be messy WAM.

Something I've noticed in a few threads where the clothed/unclothed issue is mentioned is people referring to nude as "sexual". As a fetish, all wam is sexual - to a fully clothed fan, a girl having her clothes drenched in goo is every bit as sexual as a hardcore porn scene is to a porn fan.

My choices:

• Leila Hazlett / DDVIP - for some utterly awesome fully clothed mud scenes.
  
• Allwam - amazing fully clothed scenes with fantastic outfits.
  
• Spandexgunge and Kitty - Mmmm, wet and messy spandex!
  
• Messy Jessie - the original queen of swimsuit filling.
  
• Chantelle - did some really nice fully clothed work in mud and mess.
  
• Messy Fun - the original grand master, still unsurpassed.
  
• Wet Kahuna - Lovely girls in high waist jeans soaking wet, beautifully filmed.
  
• Erik Elsas - The god of casual wetlook, and some incredible messy and muddy girls (in high waist jeans - spot the pattern here ) back in the day.
  
• Splosh - makes my list in spite of the nudity because they also produced some great fully clothed scenes too.

There's also some site who's name I can't remember, does work with girls in boilersuits, pvc, uniforms, something about a stately home?

Euh don't forget PIEDPINUPS!!

Looking at my catalog it is Lenny by a mile. I comes down to a great mix of the right pies and nudity. Some of his earlier vids where I believe he used McCains pies are about the best I have ever seen. The pies he used on the Penthouse Pet video are also superb.

Electro

Thanks! Always wanted to use McCain pies years ago but they were only sold in Canada. Mostly the pies I used were baked by Publix in Florida where I usually shoot.

The penthouse pet pies were done by Vons in CA

I appreciate the compliments. I Always try to give the best but like Peyton Manning and Kobe Bryant I think my day of retirement is nearing.

Father time and health problems make it impossible to shoot 10 scenes in a day with 1/2 a dozen models abymore

Also economics are not what they used to be with You Tube etc showing stuff for free and the prices of everything in this world

So I will still shoot on a smaller but no where near I used to but I appreciate everyone's business over these past 20 years.

I have tried to be the Mercedes of pie videos for you out there and hope I have succeeded.

Lenny

My favourite producer is me.
Not because I consider myself the best producer, but because I produce the most content that I like. What would be the point of being a producer if that wasn't the case?

There is no way to chart the popularity of producers in this way. The ONLY way would be for us all to state our sales figures, but that would be commercial suicide. So don't expect that any time soon.

The other producers who have regularly produced media I like are:
AllWam
and
Erik Elsas

But that's about my taste, that's it, if it rocks my boat I like it.

So I like to read posts like this and find any compliments flattering (thanks for the mentions), but, I don't take it seriously as any sort of opinion poll.

Still a great post.

That's correct.


No he's not. He's merely resting!


What lovely things to say, thank you.



That is what makes the best producers as far as I'm concerned. You can't make great stuff unless you fundamentally understand it, and understanding someone else's nuances in tastes without any empathy is impossible. Any time I give advice to a new producer it's basically do what you like, and serve the crap out of the people that like the same thing.


That's correct.


No he's not. He's merely resting!


What lovely things to say, thank you.



I don't really have a favourite per say because Leon is on the money as usual. I have producers I respect, but only one that I go to every time I see their posts... and one I've forgotten his damn name... the German fella with the awesome stills... and the other is Mr and Mrs bee.

The Moomins are the closest in hitting the right spot consistently otherwise.

Jessie I would put in the same category but for the variation, when she is on the money she is seriously on the money. It's slightly different advice for females that produce their own stuff, and I don't know quite what it is.

As for producers that I just flat out respect even though the material doesn't rock my boat all the time... I doubt I have to list them at this point.

I second that!

My introduction to production video WAM over 20 years ago was with Rob. Actually had the pleasure of talking to him a couple of times. Great innovator who saw the market need.

However, currently Lenny Sorge is my guy. Especially love his older stuff with the "more amateur" actresses and actors.

I'm probably very naive for asking this, but why would this be commercial suicide?

20th century: Rob Blaine.

21st century: Allwam / Messy-Wrestling.

24th century: Worf.

I think it is more like the Rolls Royce of pies. My activity dates pre UMD into the hopelessly spammed Alt Usenet days. Lenny Rob and Wamtec where about the only safe refuges back then. Lenny stood out because his central focus was pies and not a sideshow to mud or wetlook, I am glad Lenny has continued to contribute and has allowed easy access to his older material. Long live the King!!

Aside: I love how Worf in the mudbath is now the icon image for this thread!

I have to say, while I love the work of many producers, Piedpinups does have a special place in my heart. I believe their slogan was (is?) "Silly. Sexy", which for me sums up the essence of what I love about WAM. I think I'm right in saying that some of their previous material remains unreleased due to video format conversion issues or similar - here's hoping it sees the light of day eventually.

I'm delighted to see they still seem to be releasing new material though.

Noise said: "I don't really have a favourite per say because Leon is on the money as usual. I have producers I respect, but only one that I go to every time I see their posts... and one I've forgotten his damn name... the German fella with the awesome stills... and the other is Mr and Mrs bee."

Thanks, Noise and Rich, for mentioning. I do think Mrs Bee and me fall more into the amateur realm who've dabbled in producing. (And if I ever do get a full-blown production company, I'll definitely be calling it "Filthy Lucre Productions".

For me, I haven't responded to many new producers, so Messyfun; Piefight Girls (I never had any issues with Neil but sad his legacy besmirched); Rich and Anglefan and Lenny (all of whom are still strong, but more like a great restaurant still producing great food but not as thrilling as the new trendy spot). To use the tortoise and hare metaphor, Messygirl, for my bet, gets the award for most innovative. Seems like Leah is always breaking new ground, tries new things, which is pretty awesome after all this time. (Think of how many bands suck after a few years.)

If it's a good amount, you would encourage copycats, trust me, I've shared my figures on one of my sites in the past with someone, only for them to produce a copycat version. Now imitation is the best form of flattery, but a real pain in such a small market.

Not only that, but also, it is not really anyone's business but mine.

Mainly wrote that so no one would think it was a challenge.
It certainly would be the only way to tell the true popularity of a producer, but I didn't wish to throw down the gauntlet.

I'd love that to be true, but they haven't released anything for ages, have they? Did I miss an announcement?

Some recent posts on their tumblr make me think we may be in luck: http://piedpinups.tumblr.com/