I'd like to request that the bump filter is swiched off for the AI WAM Group.

Currently, as standard and to stop users from spam-bumping their own threads, there's a bump filter which prevents users from bumping their own thread back to the top and also neuters them if just a couple of people are replying back and forth, to stop collusion-bumping.

This works well on all the main forums.

BUT:

The whole way the AI WAM world works is different, people will develop prompts for their own preferred thing and post some images, then refine the prompt or take input from others and post some more, and so on. It's reasonable and natural for people to thus keep adding to their own threads, or a few people to a thread with a narrow content definition, like "office girls in mud" or whatever - but the bump filter means after the first one or two posts, the thread gets effectively burried never to be seen again.

So to get round this, people have created enormous mutant abominations like "A Place To Post AI Content", which how spans 24 pages, has buried within it every conceivable clothing and substance style by dozens of authors in a way that makes meaningul searching impossible.
https://umd.net/groups/i/a-place-to-post-ai-content

Where people can post to individual threads, the thread subject lines can be meaningful and desciptive and hence make it easy to find specific things. With monster threads, that becomes impossible, and unless someone is willing to wade through 600+ posts, there's lots of good stuff they'll never see.

So, to allow the development of meaningful individual threads for specific content type, where new posts will always be seen, and specific stuff can be found easily, I'd like to request abolition of the Bump Filter on the AI WAM Group.

You raise a good point.

I've been following some of the AI stuff with a view to learn what prompts people are using for certain clothing and scenarios and it is frustrating.

Using search doesn't really help either and going through the post you mention feels like trawling through a chat group 20 years ago!

The way I see it too is that AI is only going to get bigger now and going forward there perhaps needs to be a whole separate forum for it, perhaps the same as how Wetlook and Messy are separated now, rather than just a group.

I could pretty easily update Groups to have a setting to bypass the bump filter (in addition to the bump filter bypass everyone has in their preferences). But I'm not 100% sure everyone understands how the bump filter works. It only prevents an individual reply from bumping a thread if that reply trips 3 flags; It doesn't mark the whole thread as non-bumpable, so subsequent replies can still bump it. Nothing is neutered or permanently locked because of bumping.

You'll no doubt recall, MM, that I've tried imploringly to persuade you (and failed!) to amend how the bump filter works on the AI Group. What it currently means for me is that if I want to add more images for an image scenario that I've posted before, finding my original thread and adding new images to it doesn't bump it, it only gets bumped if the most recent comment in the thread is by someone else other than me (which isn't usually the case) and then I add my images in another post, but even that doesn't always do the trick.

If the thread isn't bumped, then it doesn't get seen by the vast majority of people in the AI Group and, to be honest, it's a waste of time generating images, choosing the best ones, changing the filenames to make them display in the order that I'd like them to etc etc if I know that few people are going to see them. I might as well just keep them for myself and not bother sharing them.

I get round it by adding new threads and add "second selection", "third selection" and so on, but this means that lots of new threads are being created unnecessarily by myself and others who are doing the same, and people who haven't seen the earlier threads, but are interested to do so, have to go looking for them unless I provide a link in the latest thread, which is a bit tedious.

Therefore, I agree with DMO's original suggestion! If it's not too difficult to implement, perhaps one option would be to try it as a trial and then run a poll of AI Group members to see if they like it better that way? Democracy in action!

It does seem like an interesting idea.

Pros:

* Reward the people who spend the time tweaking their prompt to get better results with a bump to the top.
* Encourage people to organize similar images into threads.
* Encourage people who like it to follow the thread to get updates.
* Discourage creating multiple posts for the same theme or updates (eg part1, part2, part3...). These just push posts off onto page 2 and are essentially just an alternate form of bumping.

Cons:

* People might not even notice that bumping is enabled and still create separate posts.
* People could abuse it to keep their posts at the top even if their post is not what the community likes.

Ideally, the bump filter is not disabled. Content should be voted to the top with replies and not dictated by to the top by the OP. The prompt tweaking use case is special though.

Maybe there could be a special case which allows the bump to the top if the reply has an archive zip attached?

Personally, I like the bump filter the way it is. When I posted, I didn't mind that my updates did not bump my post. I knew it would not update. My best post started in July of last year, I last updated it in October which got replies, and my lasted update images still got likes. I provided replies for updates instead of creating separate posts for each update because it was relevant to that topic, and threads don't lock. In my opinion, it is better to reply to the same thread even if it does not bump. People that follow the thread will get notifications, and the replies add up. The views add up. Getting a page 2 of replies because of conversations also makes the thread more catchy especially with the fire flair.

One warning. Last year I created 160K images 46GB, and 1h16m video. I could create a few 24 page abomination threads myself, and without a bump filter I could easily keep my posts on the top. I don't know if I would be treated like a hero for creating amazing content that people pay VIP subscriptions to download archives of, or condemned for spamming the forum and increasing storage costs.

Only if increading numbers of other people reply - after the first 24 hours, if the OP replies (or in this case, adds a newly generated set of pics) the filter does indeed neuter them.

As I said above, the AI space is completely different to the Messy and Wetlook forums. In those the filter is necessary and effective in preventing commercial spamming.

BUT, the AI group isn't about selling, it's about artistry and creativity with no commercial factors involved. And they way it currently works kills any opportunity for sensibly named and subject-sorted threads. As @Wetmaxiskirts says below, it makes it completely pointless for him to add images to his existing threads and leave him with the choice of either creating dozens of threads as part 1, part 2, part 3, etc, or adding to the cacophony of the monster one, which may get his work seen briefly but then makes it almost impossible to find subsequently.

To me, in a creative space, creatives should be allowed to add new creations without getting stymied by something that's designed to solve a problem that doesn't really exist in the AI Group.

I do agree with @mFeelzGood that perhaps the relaxation should only apply to posts that have images attached, as opposed to general chatter, to still keep some decorum. But please, let people post their creativity in a way that will be seen by the group members, not burried or only visible to a few followers.

This is not quite accurate, and I think a clarification may make this whole thread moot.

Users are not prevented from bumping their own threads to the top by default. That's only if they wait a long time in between posts, or if they keep replying to their own thread without anyone else replying, etc. It's a 3-strike system, and the OP replies definitely do bump the thread back up absent other strikes.

If a couple of other people are replying back and forth, those posts may eventually not bump the thread back up. But that doesn't mean the entire thread becomes locked and un-bumpable; Anyone else's reply can still bump the thread back up. There is no scenario where a whole thread gets locked or un-bumpable because of replies in it.


Your reply will bump the thread unless you've also tripped up other strikes as well. I routinely get asked about the bump filter and am always willing to do a deep-dive into how the strikes affected any post. Just ask


I would suggest not using the forums as a repository for your images. It's primarily built for threaded conversations, and that's what the bump filter is designed to moderate. Please consider using your own gallery for building your image collections.


An Op can reply to their own post and not trip the 3-strike rule. They can also do that within 24 hours and not trip the rule. But if they reply to their own post, within 24 hours, and nobody else has replied in-between, that's 3 strikes. I think that's a fair line to draw, and if the bump strike rules need tweaking then we can do that, but I don't think abolishing them totally for any forum makes sense.


We are not biased toward or against commercial content. It all gets the same rules and considerations.


I don't think a 3-strike bump filter kills anything. The thread is still allowed, and unlimited replies are still allowed, and all followers of the thread / group / person are still notified. A few years ago we removed all bump-related rules so people can reply as much as they like without penalty, but that's only possible with the bump filter in place. It's literally what is allowing all these replies without restriction.


I don't think it's fair to say it would be completely pointless. The thread does still get posted (and followers alerted), and we no longer have to delete the post or admonish people for bumping. It's also not a foregone conclusion that the thread won't be bumped in the first place.


In any forum here, a reply to an old thread will push a whole new thread down. It also happens in the AI forum. Nobody wants their brand new thread to be pushed down by an old thread just because the poster continued adding new images to it over and over. Everyone is welcome to post their generated images and discoveries and have a discussion about them, but the forums are not really suitable to work as a gallery.

One last try.

*** People want their work to be seen. ***

The bump filter completely nixes their chance to do that on followup posts unless there is a lot of interaction. In the commercial spaces this is a good thing as it prevents spamming / drip feeding / etc. Yes in theory people can still post followups to their own threads. No-one does. Because those followups will never be seen, or at best seen by a tiny handful of people.

Posting to galleries will get seen by a few more people as those posts will, I believe, show up on the Wall. But the numbers will still be tiny compared to a forum/group post.

So what happens instead is what's happening now, we get every new instance of something posted to its own thread, often in huge sequences. Is it any better to get a post pushed down by part 8 of a 27 part sequence of new posts, than to get it pushed down by the 8th post of a single thread? Or, we get things posted to that 25+ page monster thread, which gets them seen but then all but impossible to find afterwards unless someone is willing to wade through 700+ posts.

The key point is, people want their stuff to be seen. So they will work round the system to ensure that happens. If the bump filter was turned off for posts with images attached in AI WAM, then people would be able to showcase incremental improvements in prompts, AI models, etc, new sets of images on the same overall theme, within existing threads instead of endlessly creating new ones. This would be better for posters and also better for people looking through the forum for stuff that interests them, as there would be fewer threads but longer ones and with much better organisation by subject.

In the real world forums there's no real need to post extra images to threads, if a scene is shot, it's shot, so all the promo can be posted as one, and one thread per scene is completely reasonable. And even though adding to own threads is allowed, no-one who's been here more than a week or so does, becase they quickly learn it'll get filtered and almost no-one will see it, so all promo goes in the first post, and if anyone replies that's a bonus.

But in AI, people will come up with improvements. A new model will be released and the same prompts will suddenly make much better images. Or a suggestion to modify a prompt will result in improved results. Or even the OP will come up with a great new set of images on the same theme as the original. Having those posts in existing threads would make things so much easier to find.

Please, at least consider it?

It doesn't completely do that. A reply will still bump the post to the top. Too many replies, or other flags will prevent the bump, but if that's a problem then let's refine how the bump filter works. I don't think I want to remove it completely, especially if the reasons for removing it are not quite accurate: A reply does bump the post back up, but not if it's the originator of the thread posting over and over, etc.


We have never shown bias toward or against commercial content, and I don't think we want to start doing it by discriminating on the bump filter. Drip-feeding is just as annoying whether it's for a commercial plug or in the AI forum.


Replies do bump threads, so their stuff will be seen


The forums are a popular gathering spot, but that doesn't mean they are supposed to replace user galleries as a true repository of images. Forums are meant for threaded conversation where new threads should take precedent over bumped old ones.


That's not really how the bump filter works. It kicks in if a person for example makes a post and then 3 replies, with 25 images each, instead of one post with 100 pics. The latter should not push other people's *new* threads down 4 times just because the user split the images up or added some later.


If people are posting images to 12-page monster thread and then nobody can find them, I'd suggest not posting to monster threads anymore and instead using the galleries. Forum posts are not meant to be a repository of images, pinned to the top at the whim and discretion of the OP by use of sporadic replies. Pics are posted, discussed, then the conversation gets old and pushed down by newer conversations as supported by the bump filter. Unless other people reply. Repeated replies by the OP should not pin a post to the top forever.


Let's remember that the opportunity cost of bumping an old post up is to push everybody else's posts down. They want their stuff to be seen too, and their thread is probably newer!


By this logic, any given thread should last forever, or for as long as image manipulation technology improves, which is forever. That's not sustainable. Just start a new thread! Threads just can't last forever and be bumped forever


It seems that eliminating the bump filter would encourage the long threads with all the images buried deep into their pages. Better "organized?" Sure, but forum threads are not meant to be galleries of organized images. That's what galleries are for; Threads are for ongoing discussion.


Assuming I haven't considered it at all? I've been posting specific reasons for not adding the bump filter to AI groups or any other groups. Super-long threads were never meant for the forum system, though I tolerate them. Threads are supposed to die after some time to allow for new ones, regardless of the group or forum. A solution might be to allow groups to have their own galleries that participants can contribute to. Maybe I'll add that some day, and the bump filter will definitely continue to be refined, but the bump filter will remain in place for all forums and groups.

This might sound controversial, but I've always wondered whether bump filters are really worth the bother - at all (?)

Trying to prevent 'hogging' of forums is a noble aim - but the discussions around them, the nuanced dancing around multiple sets of circumstances - not to mention the gargantuan efforts for MM in coding for these - always lead me to wonder whether the modifications don't just tend to displace one problem with another.

If the real issue is potentially the unending strings of storage consuming images in threads then, perhaps, the most sensible developments are indeed modifying the user galleries and how these interface with posts and threads.

Yes, they are absolutely worth it. And it's not a bother since it's automated The bump filter has allowed us to get rid of an entire genre of rules on bumping. Almost every day we would have to delete messages that were considered bumps, and I had to deal with the fallout from the disgruntled user. Now everyone is free to reply as much as they want, but only because we have a bump filter to mitigate the return-to-top. To me, there is no new problem introduced by the bump filter.

I'm still not sure I made this clear: Your post will bump the post, even if you were the original poster. But if you do things like reply more than once in a short time-span with nobody else responding, your post may not bump the thread. Subsequent replies after THAT can still bump the thread, and if the OP responds after them the thread will be bumped.

It's not a punitive measure. The bump filter is there so you CAN reply as much as you want

As someone who is on "season 19" of AI images around a single theme, this is relevant to me.

I personally don't mind the bump filtering, if the bump filtering was turned off I'd probably still start a new thread for each series of images.

This is because my work is a fictional tv show: if you miss an episode, you miss an episode. You might have to scroll down the forum to find it.

Ultimately this is a live forum to a niche audience, I get about 500 views per post, and regular engagement by up to about 10 people. If I really wanted my work to be truly seen, I'd start an Instagram account for it, or something similar.