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"Discussion about Mostwam"
Love you, too
I wonder why it had to be Leon doing it and not a female employee.
Next Time said: the OP's backstory is an obvious lie and nobody else spotted it.
For the record, I found no evidence that VAVAVIE was also any other member of this site.
Anyone is always free to contact me if they want me to run a spider on a user's IP address to check for any shenanigans. Sometimes intuitions are right.
Stay messy, my friends
Next Time said:
I'll put you down as a "No".
I acknowledged that it doesn't matter and made no difference, but it still bothers me that the OP's backstory is an obvious lie and nobody else spotted it. You lot would suck at Werewolf, that's all I'm saying.
I'll put you down as a "No".
I acknowledged that it doesn't matter and made no difference, but it still bothers me that the OP's backstory is an obvious lie and nobody else spotted it. You lot would suck at Werewolf, that's all I'm saying.
My disinterest in OP's identity comes from an understanding that any backstory inconsistencies are likely there because OP is (justifiably, as has been made especially clear in this thread alone) trying to hide their identity to avoid retaliation. As I've said, I've been down this road before, and I'd be willing to say that this is the case at least nine times out of ten. Only very, VERY rarely does this indicate fabrication beyond just concealing identities, and we already know the information OP provided is genuine.
As for Werewolf, it has been some time since I played a round of that. Time to kick the local group into action in time for Halloween...
Profile pic from SexyMessyBabes, co-starring me.
OP is likely to be someone with an axe to grind with Leon / MostWAM, or some patsy. MostWAM staffers before they got banned mentioned there was a coincidental falling out with one of their employees, and I read between the lines that that person was attempting to blackmail MostWAM by outing this information in an attempt to destroy their business.
Messmaster said:
For the record, I found no evidence that VAVAVIE was also any other member of this site.
Anyone is always free to contact me if they want me to run a spider on a user's IP address to check for any shenanigans. Sometimes intuitions are right.
Next Time said: the OP's backstory is an obvious lie and nobody else spotted it.
For the record, I found no evidence that VAVAVIE was also any other member of this site.
Anyone is always free to contact me if they want me to run a spider on a user's IP address to check for any shenanigans. Sometimes intuitions are right.
No, I wasn't suggesting it's a sock-puppet, just a false backstory and lying about motivations and associations. The fact they ran away as soon as it was pointed out just confirmed it.
lchris001 said: OP is likely to be someone with an axe to grind with Leon / MostWAM, or some patsy. MostWAM staffers before they got banned mentioned there was a coincidental falling out with one of their employees, and I read between the lines that that person was attempting to blackmail MostWAM by outing this information in an attempt to destroy their business.
Love to blackmail people with publicly available information...
lchris001 said: OP is likely to be someone with an axe to grind with Leon / MostWAM, or some patsy. MostWAM staffers before they got banned mentioned there was a coincidental falling out with one of their employees, and I read between the lines that that person was attempting to blackmail MostWAM by outing this information in an attempt to destroy their business.
Congratulations on completely missing the point. You don't have to deal with the real problem if you can just toss baseless accusations at the OP, eh? You are precisely the reason why discussion of OP's identity is irrelevant, and indeed harmful to the thread and forum as a whole. You're looking a lot like the kind of person who would make life horrible for those who dare to be victims of crime or would speak up when a victim feels like they can't do so safely. The kind of person a community cannot tolerate if it wants to stay healthy.
Profile pic from SexyMessyBabes, co-starring me.
KelseyRose said:
I think I can help him understand with an example;
Chris, if I came over right now and kicked you in the balls, and I mean kicked you really really hard...
phantasm90 said:
Congratulations on completely missing the point. You don't have to deal with the real problem if you can just toss baseless accusations at the OP, eh? You are precisely the reason why discussion of OP's identity is irrelevant, and indeed harmful to the thread and forum as a whole. You're looking a lot like the kind of person who would make life horrible for those who dare to be victims of crime or would speak up when a victim feels like they can't do so safely. The kind of person a community cannot tolerate if it wants to stay healthy.
lchris001 said: OP is likely to be someone with an axe to grind with Leon / MostWAM, or some patsy. MostWAM staffers before they got banned mentioned there was a coincidental falling out with one of their employees, and I read between the lines that that person was attempting to blackmail MostWAM by outing this information in an attempt to destroy their business.
Congratulations on completely missing the point. You don't have to deal with the real problem if you can just toss baseless accusations at the OP, eh? You are precisely the reason why discussion of OP's identity is irrelevant, and indeed harmful to the thread and forum as a whole. You're looking a lot like the kind of person who would make life horrible for those who dare to be victims of crime or would speak up when a victim feels like they can't do so safely. The kind of person a community cannot tolerate if it wants to stay healthy.
I think I can help him understand with an example;
Chris, if I came over right now and kicked you in the balls, and I mean kicked you really really hard...
Would you? Would you please? I mean, I have heard that people would pay you $100 if you did. I read between the lines that Chris would really, REALLY like it if you kicked him in the balls SO HARD that his grandchildren's grandchildren said 'ow'.
I got a pair of sweet Frye's you could use. Pointy toes and everything! Harness hardware - chef's kiss.
({Telegraph the Governor and tell him I said.. OW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!))
I read between the lines that Chris won't have grandchildren, tho, because I read between the lines that no woman would fuck Chris if he was the last beta-male (sorry, delta-male is more appropriate in this case) within a 200 klik-radius. So I read between the lines that Chris will not have children, or grandchildren.. or an orgasm not inflicted by other than his own Onanism... so.. anyway..
[Mild violence humor removed] I read between the lines that he'd really, really like that.
Please don't kick me in the balls, have you considered what if I was into BDSM? What kind of mixed signal would that cause?
Disclaimer: I'm not into BDSM.
This is getting pointless, and everyone has said all they wanted to say, including me. Since the decision has been made, I don't see the point engaging much more.
Disclaimer: I'm not into BDSM.
This is getting pointless, and everyone has said all they wanted to say, including me. Since the decision has been made, I don't see the point engaging much more.
Keep digging, Chris; you're sure to get out of this hole at some point.
Profile pic from SexyMessyBabes, co-starring me.
lchris001 said: OP is likely to be someone with an axe to grind with Leon / MostWAM, or some patsy. MostWAM staffers before they got banned mentioned there was a coincidental falling out with one of their employees, and I read between the lines that that person was attempting to blackmail MostWAM by outing this information in an attempt to destroy their business.
So your guessing and then reading between the lines on that guess means you solved jack shit, congrats.
I have read all these comments on this topic I think Leon should have nothing to do with umd and most wam and would like to see mostwam continue without him being involved don't know if that is possible shouldn't allow one person to bring down the good work of others I support mostwam in there work but I do not support Leon which I appreciate is odd as Leon is part of mostwam in a,big way but I support what the girls do for there customers
Nothing better than being messy
I really don't know if adding to this thread is helpful, but just to say solidarity with anyone who has been the victim of sexual assault or made to feel unsafe. I hope we can all work to make everyone feel safe and welcome on UMD and, of course, as part of that there should be no place for convicted sex offenders on this site.
Firstly, I'm not personally connected to the organization, perpetrator or victim.
Secondly, I do not believe, in the interest of protecting said victim's rights to privacy, such information should be made public, (in any forum).
it's business not for our comment, nor re-distribution.
Deeply saddened administration process allowed this post to be broadcast. My respects to those affected or otherwise harmed.
Even worse, I saw it at all... Everyone, shut the fuck up, fuck off & don't get personally opinionated in what's not your private business.. A sad day for UMD. Totally disgusting..
Secondly, I do not believe, in the interest of protecting said victim's rights to privacy, such information should be made public, (in any forum).
it's business not for our comment, nor re-distribution.
Deeply saddened administration process allowed this post to be broadcast. My respects to those affected or otherwise harmed.
Even worse, I saw it at all... Everyone, shut the fuck up, fuck off & don't get personally opinionated in what's not your private business.. A sad day for UMD. Totally disgusting..
R.A.
KelseyRose said:
He is not being "punished further". If MM (or any of us) were aware of his crime or conviction when it happened, he would have received the full consequences of his actions then instead of now.
Instead, he deceptively hid it, then lied about it when he was caught, and then tried to justify it when finally admitting it.
His subsequent punishment here is NOT additional punishment for sexually assaulting a model over a year ago. It is the direct consequences of all of his actions.
He is not being "punished further". If MM (or any of us) were aware of his crime or conviction when it happened, he would have received the full consequences of his actions then instead of now.
Instead, he deceptively hid it, then lied about it when he was caught, and then tried to justify it when finally admitting it.
His subsequent punishment here is NOT additional punishment for sexually assaulting a model over a year ago. It is the direct consequences of all of his actions.
I understand your point, but are lying and not reporting yourself as a sex offender against the sites ToS?
I don't like what he did, but we are not the legal authorities. His punishment for the crime was a suspended sentence. His punishment from us appears to be ending his business. I can understand why he kept it quiet, and unlike some I don't believe we had a "right" to ever find out about it.
I never dealt with Leon previously as I don't have the same clothed kink, and I definitely wouldn't any more if I did, but that's a personal decision.
MM also had a personal decision to make, considering his own priorities.
I'm glad he made it the way he did because the alternative would be to constantly have to talk about it, to ensure that any new customers are aware of the behaviour of the site owner.
As I said previously, I'm more concerned with his victims. It's clear there are more than the one that got a conviction.
Wakka said:
I understand your point, but are lying and not reporting yourself as a sex offender against the sites ToS?
I don't like what he did, but we are not the legal authorities. His punishment for the crime was a suspended sentence. His punishment from us appears to be ending his business. I can understand why he kept it quiet, and unlike some I don't believe we had a "right" to ever find out about it.
I never dealt with Leon previously as I don't have the same clothed kink, and I definitely wouldn't any more if I did, but that's a personal decision.
MM also had a personal decision to make, considering his own priorities.
I'm glad he made it the way he did because the alternative would be to constantly have to talk about it, to ensure that any new customers are aware of the behaviour of the site owner.
As I said previously, I'm more concerned with his victims. It's clear there are more than the one that got a conviction.
KelseyRose said:
He is not being "punished further". If MM (or any of us) were aware of his crime or conviction when it happened, he would have received the full consequences of his actions then instead of now.
Instead, he deceptively hid it, then lied about it when he was caught, and then tried to justify it when finally admitting it.
His subsequent punishment here is NOT additional punishment for sexually assaulting a model over a year ago. It is the direct consequences of all of his actions.
He is not being "punished further". If MM (or any of us) were aware of his crime or conviction when it happened, he would have received the full consequences of his actions then instead of now.
Instead, he deceptively hid it, then lied about it when he was caught, and then tried to justify it when finally admitting it.
His subsequent punishment here is NOT additional punishment for sexually assaulting a model over a year ago. It is the direct consequences of all of his actions.
I understand your point, but are lying and not reporting yourself as a sex offender against the sites ToS?
I don't like what he did, but we are not the legal authorities. His punishment for the crime was a suspended sentence. His punishment from us appears to be ending his business. I can understand why he kept it quiet, and unlike some I don't believe we had a "right" to ever find out about it.
I never dealt with Leon previously as I don't have the same clothed kink, and I definitely wouldn't any more if I did, but that's a personal decision.
MM also had a personal decision to make, considering his own priorities.
I'm glad he made it the way he did because the alternative would be to constantly have to talk about it, to ensure that any new customers are aware of the behaviour of the site owner.
As I said previously, I'm more concerned with his victims. It's clear there are more than the one that got a conviction.
I think that is now part of the debate for some of us: Why is it not against the ToS? Should it be from this point onward? Companies, businesses, sites, all evolve from situations like this. So, perhaps this is the moment it should now evolve.
Everyone has the right to their personal choice - I made mine, and will not be seeking him or MostWam out to buy. I do not know their whole business model but Leon was synonymous with it, and in many ways the name behind it along with Lisa. Now collateral damage is unfortunate but it sounds that *some* working there knew about it; it's their choice and right if they wanteds to continue which is fair enough, and up to them on their own sites.
But I think this is the thing; on UMD, when you're selling products and making a profit, transparency on HERE at least should be important I think. They didn't make it aware to the admins of this site, and it has now come out after some time. It's lead to many being outraged, sad, betrayed - myself included. Now that is my issue, and I made my choice as I say personally. But it seems to be others as well; a lot of people have come out with uncomfortable feelings about this, and heartbreaking for many of us.
I know opinons are important and everyone has the right to their own, but if we look at a business that isn't a fetish site etc - you have to disclose it to your employers in most cases. Now I know UMD isn't an employer, but they facilitate and display the content. I know the stores run themselves but many people go through here to get to them, and the stores are actually on UMD in some cases, as well as producers own sites.
Surely, it is important for transparency to be aware of a serious conviction that is directly linked to the practice of selling content? Some of us have bought videos and content in the last year or two with no knowledge, and perhaps one or two including the model in question. Some maybe fine with that, others not - but no on really had the *choice* because we were not aware at the time, and after the money is long gone.
So, we cannot change the events of this weekend. But if something is done, implemented, advised, announced, written in the ToS then hopefully this has a chance to never happen again, or at least if it did (but hopefully it doesn't), then it's transparent and clear next time on the immediate action and consequence.
Again, just want to mention that stores and producers are their own people, but when on here they are linked full stop, whether or not they manage their own stores, UMD promotes it technically by even having them in the members list.
And all of that, like the important point you ended with, all of the above is in the importance and thoughts of the victim, any previous, and aiming to prevent any more models becoming victims.
EDIT: No, by the way we are not legal authorities as you say. But this site as I say hosts clips and products, at a personal level and with real people of course. It's not about further punishment, but the protection and care of models in the future. I mean, they put themselves out there for thousands to view, but they know and consent to that. Producers and stores, they all need to know where that line is and if that line is crossed, to proper themselves up away from the UMD which should be an (Ironically clean) community as per the ToS.
Chair, Button, Gunk Dunk...but who's the dunkee?
leonmoomin said:
I am a 48 year old, who, had NO EXPERIENCE of how the legal system works, it is nothing like TV, just hire a new legal team, simple as that? On the day, just 10 minutes before you are in court to plead guilty to an offence.
My solicitor only convinced me to plead guilty a few days before my plea hearing.
I was in a room at the court with my father, my solicitor and my barrister, I had been told to ask the barrister to speak to me in confidence, as an employee of the court i was told he should agree to that, he refused to do so, which made me have to confront my solicitor to his face, resulting in him saying I would be remanded until trial and I would have to go in to make my plea without representation. I was mislead.
After I plead guilty, no one would work for me and again, as I still had a lawyer, no one would even give me any advice.
After the fact and having now received advice, yes, that is exactly what i should have done.
Wamchantelle said:
Leon seriously come off it you're 48 years old not 12
I'm assuming you watch TV or are you now going to say you don't, there are plenty of programs on there every day of the week from films to TV shows even real life reality where you will see these cases come up where people will get a new legal team at the drop of a hat, to me it just seems that there is an excuse after excuse as to why you didn't didn't change this or didn't change that personally your story seems to differ every time you comment from first blaming everyone else in your child then suicide now it's the solicitor can you weren't a voice come off it if you're going to tell a story at least keep it consistent as you are even winding me up now Play me everyone but yourself at the end of the day there's no smoke without fire you put yourself in a situation which whether you were guilty or not you should've known better than to do
leonmoomin said:
YES, THAT, I had no idea I could do that.
I was desperately trying to contact other solicitors, but none would talk to me as I had one employed, I could not get any advise what to do when my confidence in my solicitor had broken down. People have told me since, but no one would at the time.
I have also been advised to bring about a case against him for malpractice, as I didn't receive a pack from him to explain what to do in exactly that situation.
If you weren't happy with your solicitor you should've got a new one and had the case adjourned
YES, THAT, I had no idea I could do that.
I was desperately trying to contact other solicitors, but none would talk to me as I had one employed, I could not get any advise what to do when my confidence in my solicitor had broken down. People have told me since, but no one would at the time.
I have also been advised to bring about a case against him for malpractice, as I didn't receive a pack from him to explain what to do in exactly that situation.
Leon seriously come off it you're 48 years old not 12
I'm assuming you watch TV or are you now going to say you don't, there are plenty of programs on there every day of the week from films to TV shows even real life reality where you will see these cases come up where people will get a new legal team at the drop of a hat, to me it just seems that there is an excuse after excuse as to why you didn't didn't change this or didn't change that personally your story seems to differ every time you comment from first blaming everyone else in your child then suicide now it's the solicitor can you weren't a voice come off it if you're going to tell a story at least keep it consistent as you are even winding me up now Play me everyone but yourself at the end of the day there's no smoke without fire you put yourself in a situation which whether you were guilty or not you should've known better than to do
I am a 48 year old, who, had NO EXPERIENCE of how the legal system works, it is nothing like TV, just hire a new legal team, simple as that? On the day, just 10 minutes before you are in court to plead guilty to an offence.
My solicitor only convinced me to plead guilty a few days before my plea hearing.
I was in a room at the court with my father, my solicitor and my barrister, I had been told to ask the barrister to speak to me in confidence, as an employee of the court i was told he should agree to that, he refused to do so, which made me have to confront my solicitor to his face, resulting in him saying I would be remanded until trial and I would have to go in to make my plea without representation. I was mislead.
After I plead guilty, no one would work for me and again, as I still had a lawyer, no one would even give me any advice.
After the fact and having now received advice, yes, that is exactly what i should have done.
Dude if your innocent how about get a new layer 1) file an appeal and then 2 ) file a case for malpractice and damages.
if your laywer literally sabatoged yourcase, an appeals court would look at it if you have the evidence.
|
the fact i have no legal knowledge and know this bothers me, and im from canada with the same type of system.
Yeah all this legal talk is also why I think this seems sketchy. He could appeal on bad legal counsel, but was it really bad counsel? Sounded like Leon was afraid of the info getting out. And the evidence on his side can't be used again, that doesn't make sense. If the state tries to convict someone and they do, then that person gets an appeal they can't use the evidence that was for them to support the appeal?
I'm starting to think the lawyer wasnt bad. I think this lawyer knew there simply was no victory here, case stacked, go to court and get alot worse.
not be political but canada and the uk share the same type of justice system and if that article speaks of anything the fact of how broken this system is.
and fyi no prosecutor or judge in their right mind would proceed with a plea if there was doubt about the certainty of guilt or the quality of the legal counsel, those are gateways for appeals and those appeals if approved usually end up sanctioning the prosecutor and judge.
plus then the government is open to lawsuits for damages caused by the process. the system is literally designed to try an avoid this outcome at all costs.
but as said earlier the only reason he got off with what he did is the system is broken, he didnt get the book thrown at him, if he did hed be spending 15- 20 years in a cell.
not be political but canada and the uk share the same type of justice system and if that article speaks of anything the fact of how broken this system is.
and fyi no prosecutor or judge in their right mind would proceed with a plea if there was doubt about the certainty of guilt or the quality of the legal counsel, those are gateways for appeals and those appeals if approved usually end up sanctioning the prosecutor and judge.
plus then the government is open to lawsuits for damages caused by the process. the system is literally designed to try an avoid this outcome at all costs.
but as said earlier the only reason he got off with what he did is the system is broken, he didnt get the book thrown at him, if he did hed be spending 15- 20 years in a cell.
loveandtheft said:
"Virtue signal", "stunning and brave", "cancel culture".
You're just a right-wing cliche machine aren't you Chris? An automated twatbot.
Absolutely pathetic and laughable that were you calling other people "sheep" earlier.
lchris001 said:
2. More simps coming out to virtue signal, with all the "moral outrage" you'd expect from the mob. Self-congratulatory remarks of being "stunning and brave". Yes, it's so brave to be at the front of the mob (sarc). Great courage (sarc).
2. More simps coming out to virtue signal, with all the "moral outrage" you'd expect from the mob. Self-congratulatory remarks of being "stunning and brave". Yes, it's so brave to be at the front of the mob (sarc). Great courage (sarc).
"Virtue signal", "stunning and brave", "cancel culture".
You're just a right-wing cliche machine aren't you Chris? An automated twatbot.
Absolutely pathetic and laughable that were you calling other people "sheep" earlier.
I havent been giving any credence or acknowledgement to his posts, not to be political but this is why i wont vote conservative until the trump braindead syndrome is eradicated and unfortunatley that man has infected canadian politics with maga shenanigans.
I come from a conservative area of canada and used to be honest be solid conservative, now im literally not voting until this changes, hopefully if enough of these fools lose the party will reset.
cowboi1 said: I'm starting to think the lawyer wasnt bad. I think this lawyer knew there simply was no victory here, case stacked, go to court and get alot worse.
not be political but canada and the uk share the same type of justice system and if that article speaks of anything the fact of how broken this system is.
and fyi no prosecutor or judge in their right mind would proceed with a plea if there was doubt about the certainty of guilt or the quality of the legal counsel, those are gateways for appeals and those appeals if approved usually end up sanctioning the prosecutor and judge.
plus then the government is open to lawsuits for damages caused by the process. the system is literally designed to try an avoid this outcome at all costs.
but as said earlier the only reason he got off with what he did is the system is broken, he didnt get the book thrown at him, if he did hed be spending 15- 20 years in a cell.
not be political but canada and the uk share the same type of justice system and if that article speaks of anything the fact of how broken this system is.
and fyi no prosecutor or judge in their right mind would proceed with a plea if there was doubt about the certainty of guilt or the quality of the legal counsel, those are gateways for appeals and those appeals if approved usually end up sanctioning the prosecutor and judge.
plus then the government is open to lawsuits for damages caused by the process. the system is literally designed to try an avoid this outcome at all costs.
but as said earlier the only reason he got off with what he did is the system is broken, he didnt get the book thrown at him, if he did hed be spending 15- 20 years in a cell.
if an appeal was granted the evidence would be used as the case would be tried in court. the legal system of the uk and canada are virtually identical, it's basically a carbon copy here.
messyface1994 said:
I'm pretty sure you're the only one in this thread who thinks Al and Lisa are bad guys here. Do you not understand that MostWam is not the problem here? Leon is, and the two can be separated from each other going forward if Leon's decides to do the right thing, you know that right?
If YOU don't like MostWam, then good for you. Please don't attack anyone who does watch MostWam, and Kelsey herself said she had no problem with MostWam being here or people watching MostWam as long as Leon is out of the equation.
Jesus christ, you talk like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum, not a grown adult trying to do help someone. Your aggressive and nasty attitude does not make me want to support you, since it's clear you are a terrible person in reality and are using this situation to try and make yourself look better, but are failing miserably. I never said that all the money they have ever earned should go to charity, just a suggesting that at least some of the earnings at least from now on should go forward to supporting them.
You have shown nothing but ill intent here. You're an angry person trying to violently destroy something, not someone who wants to make this community a better place.
Your own opinion of what should happen is not the "bleeding obvious thing that a professional business that respects its customers" should do, as you have been anything but professional, so I don't know how you think you have any right to lecture others on professionalism.
VAVAVIE said:
Al has posted himself to confirm he has known all the time about the sexual assault and the conviction.
Leon has stated that Lisa has known all along too.
They have all misled this Forum and the business has taken thousands of pounds from members on here.
Do you not understand that is unacceptable and from here all trace should be removed?
I personally don't want to help these people, they seem to be vile in supporting what has happened.
Nobody is stopping them carrying on elsewhere. They can do whatever they want in whatever legal way they want.
If YOU want to persuade Leon,Lisa and Al to donate around £130k of profit to various charities plus pay back their wages to charity then I wish you all the luck in the world but do expect to have a face covered in piss as you'll be pissing in the wind.
I hope that shows you there is no ill intent as I don't know these people but I can see the bleeding obvious that if UMD is a professional business that respects its customers and producers then their collective actions must lead to their complete removal from UMD.
messyface1994 said:
You aren't to win the argument that people who like MostWam and it's content and want it to continue are by default ok with Leon still being on the platform. Most people here, if not all, have come to the realisation that Leon needs to go. He's a convicted sex offender, and can't stay on the platform, and more serious and sincere efforts should be made to protect all the models that star in wam videos from now on, and to to make sure victims are taken seriously and have their situations dealt with efficiently.
Someone else pointed out that it's not that MostWam in general is being cancelled, but that we are figuring out how to move on, presumably without Leon. Others have also pointed out that MostWam should be able to continue if Leon steps down and hands the ownership to it to someone more responsible, or have a new site entirely, and would also make sense as a punishment for him, although that wouldn't be nearly enough to justify forgiveness, but it would be a start.
As I've said before, the money generated by MostWam that would have gone into Leons pocket, can be sent to various charities that support victims of sexual assault and rape, making MostWam a genuine force for good, as well as going into potential resources that can help safeguard models from predatory producers (hopefully, by making sure they don't exist in the first place by having some sort of sexual assault awareness course that people have to pass in order to become a producer).
Your tone and attitude isn't one of someone who wants to help. It's one of someone that wants to destroy something at any cost, and that's not being helpful. Instead of yelling at each other, let's actually do something productive and helpful for the people you claim to care so much about.
Also, when did Al become a bad guy here?
VAVAVIE said: I'm shocked at some of the male responses on here. I'm amazed any female would like to remain on this Forum. We all like sexual activity but very sinister opinions are flowing from customers and some producers alike. I suggest everybody reads the whole thread before choosing who to spend money with.
Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain
1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when Cassie left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place
This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.
Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is Cassie and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, Cassie or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.
Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.
How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.
Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain
1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when Cassie left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place
This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.
Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is Cassie and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, Cassie or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.
Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.
How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.
You aren't to win the argument that people who like MostWam and it's content and want it to continue are by default ok with Leon still being on the platform. Most people here, if not all, have come to the realisation that Leon needs to go. He's a convicted sex offender, and can't stay on the platform, and more serious and sincere efforts should be made to protect all the models that star in wam videos from now on, and to to make sure victims are taken seriously and have their situations dealt with efficiently.
Someone else pointed out that it's not that MostWam in general is being cancelled, but that we are figuring out how to move on, presumably without Leon. Others have also pointed out that MostWam should be able to continue if Leon steps down and hands the ownership to it to someone more responsible, or have a new site entirely, and would also make sense as a punishment for him, although that wouldn't be nearly enough to justify forgiveness, but it would be a start.
As I've said before, the money generated by MostWam that would have gone into Leons pocket, can be sent to various charities that support victims of sexual assault and rape, making MostWam a genuine force for good, as well as going into potential resources that can help safeguard models from predatory producers (hopefully, by making sure they don't exist in the first place by having some sort of sexual assault awareness course that people have to pass in order to become a producer).
Your tone and attitude isn't one of someone who wants to help. It's one of someone that wants to destroy something at any cost, and that's not being helpful. Instead of yelling at each other, let's actually do something productive and helpful for the people you claim to care so much about.
Also, when did Al become a bad guy here?
Al has posted himself to confirm he has known all the time about the sexual assault and the conviction.
Leon has stated that Lisa has known all along too.
They have all misled this Forum and the business has taken thousands of pounds from members on here.
Do you not understand that is unacceptable and from here all trace should be removed?
I personally don't want to help these people, they seem to be vile in supporting what has happened.
Nobody is stopping them carrying on elsewhere. They can do whatever they want in whatever legal way they want.
If YOU want to persuade Leon,Lisa and Al to donate around £130k of profit to various charities plus pay back their wages to charity then I wish you all the luck in the world but do expect to have a face covered in piss as you'll be pissing in the wind.
I hope that shows you there is no ill intent as I don't know these people but I can see the bleeding obvious that if UMD is a professional business that respects its customers and producers then their collective actions must lead to their complete removal from UMD.
I'm pretty sure you're the only one in this thread who thinks Al and Lisa are bad guys here. Do you not understand that MostWam is not the problem here? Leon is, and the two can be separated from each other going forward if Leon's decides to do the right thing, you know that right?
If YOU don't like MostWam, then good for you. Please don't attack anyone who does watch MostWam, and Kelsey herself said she had no problem with MostWam being here or people watching MostWam as long as Leon is out of the equation.
Jesus christ, you talk like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum, not a grown adult trying to do help someone. Your aggressive and nasty attitude does not make me want to support you, since it's clear you are a terrible person in reality and are using this situation to try and make yourself look better, but are failing miserably. I never said that all the money they have ever earned should go to charity, just a suggesting that at least some of the earnings at least from now on should go forward to supporting them.
You have shown nothing but ill intent here. You're an angry person trying to violently destroy something, not someone who wants to make this community a better place.
Your own opinion of what should happen is not the "bleeding obvious thing that a professional business that respects its customers" should do, as you have been anything but professional, so I don't know how you think you have any right to lecture others on professionalism.
Dear me. Since your rant Al and Leon spoke confirming who was responsible albeit with contradictions. Leon owns 100% of the Limited Company that owns all the websites.
Al,Lisa and Leon all run it. All chose to mislead MM,customers and other producers.
They are free to conduct business still,just not on this Forum.
Any former model with a complaint against Leon personally or the company as a whole can now take steps as the number coming forward now grows.
My only priority was representing the former Mostwam model by alerting this forum to his conviction. I've not asked for them to be closed down as a business or any members of staff abused. If Leon and Lisa have a child and are together/have split up I wish them all the best with their parenting. The man by his own admission needs a lot of help. I hope he gets it.
Your focus would be better spent worrying about a girl/girls being treated a certain way and be happy in the knowledge you can still buy your turn on still,just not on here.
Careful with your statements about what you wanted Vavavie. You were tossing around all kinds of shade at people and the credibility of things while it was a heated issue. The posts are still there unless you delete them.
dalamar666 said: Careful with your statements about what you wanted Vavavie. You were tossing around all kinds of shade at people and the credibility of things while it was a heated issue. The posts are still there unless you delete them.
You seem very strange. Having just read through you have criticised me for answering lots of comments because I hadn't contributed much before and was happy to lurk,look at some photos.
Then when I thought even information was posted by me and Leon had posted enough information to lose all credibility I decided to leave. Penny Banks had also advised me that day to not post any more in regard to the girl, now girls getting advice legally.
The potato chap had asked some questions so I answered them all then tried to leave everything to Messmaster.
Your response was to say I was running away. Messmaster has dealt with the Mostwam side in regard to UMD. I admit I doubted his method at first as did Penny etc. I know understand it and has my backing.
If you put your name and address on here with photo ID then maybe other people will follow suit,if they do maybe I will too (except I won't because I'm not insane nor is it necessary)
VAVAVIE said:
You seem very strange. Having just read through you have criticised me for answering lots of comments because I hadn't contributed much before and was happy to lurk,look at some photos.
Then when I thought even information was posted by me and Leon had posted enough information to lose all credibility I decided to leave. Penny Banks had also advised me that day to not post any more in regard to the girl, now girls getting advice legally.
The potato chap had asked some questions so I answered them all then tried to leave everything to Messmaster.
Your response was to say I was running away. Messmaster has dealt with the Mostwam side in regard to UMD. I admit I doubted his method at first as did Penny etc. I know understand it and has my backing.
If you put your name and address on here with photo ID then maybe other people will follow suit,if they do maybe I will too (except I won't because I'm not insane nor is it necessary)
dalamar666 said: Careful with your statements about what you wanted Vavavie. You were tossing around all kinds of shade at people and the credibility of things while it was a heated issue. The posts are still there unless you delete them.
You seem very strange. Having just read through you have criticised me for answering lots of comments because I hadn't contributed much before and was happy to lurk,look at some photos.
Then when I thought even information was posted by me and Leon had posted enough information to lose all credibility I decided to leave. Penny Banks had also advised me that day to not post any more in regard to the girl, now girls getting advice legally.
The potato chap had asked some questions so I answered them all then tried to leave everything to Messmaster.
Your response was to say I was running away. Messmaster has dealt with the Mostwam side in regard to UMD. I admit I doubted his method at first as did Penny etc. I know understand it and has my backing.
If you put your name and address on here with photo ID then maybe other people will follow suit,if they do maybe I will too (except I won't because I'm not insane nor is it necessary)
This place is very much a home to me. Earlier on, and trying to catch up on things as I was away for the weekend a lot of this came across as "who the fuck is this guy and why is he trying to burn this place down" in my mind. Everyone didn't have access to all the information, lines were being formed, torches lit, and people threatening this or that if certain actions weren't taken immediately. It felt more like an attack on the entirety community and Leon was the Franz Ferdinand to ignite it all.
For instance, I stand by Penny's decision to leave, but felt her reasoning was premature (and fueled by her past and personal experiences). A lot of people wanted IMMEDIATE retaliatory action and were upset they didn't receive it then and there. I'm sad to see her go. She was a rock here, created the first awards show for out little kink, and was an avid member.
But given Messmaster's position of having to review more than just what people were saying, taking down a store like this isn't as easy as flipping a switch. There are customers who had active subscriptions, refunds to process etc. So much more than "Leon bad, pull the plug".
I was actually one of the people to flag the original thread at the time because of the address being in the column, and potential doxxing, etc. and ask for it to be frozen and the link pulled for review.
Now we have much more information and from more sources and time to review it. It's really unfortunate how many people this situation has fucked over. First and foremost, the model (and quite possibly others as time moves forward), employees, family, the UMD, customers, and even Leon.
Another sad end to another large and cherished producer this year.
He's more potato now than man. Twisted and evil.
I'm locking this thread because I think it's served its purpose. I may decide to delete it at some point. Not to hide it, but so that other victims don't have to keep seeing it and stumbling over it forever.
You can see the newer update thread here: https://umd.net/forums/update-to-the-leon-mostwam-situation
Peace,
Messmaster
You can see the newer update thread here: https://umd.net/forums/update-to-the-leon-mostwam-situation
Peace,
Messmaster
Stay messy, my friends
