I want to say one last thing. I wish compassion and kindness for all involved. I hope you all find it in you to be respectful of each other's humanity. I wish no hatred or destruction upon anyone. I'm more upset with the members responding to this thread than I am with Leon and Mostwam. This mission to attack anyone who threatens their security is not helping Leon or Mostwam at all. I wish peace and tranquility to the woman who feels she was molested, I hope she has a good system of support and love. I hope the rest of the crew at Mostwam can recover from this and we can all move on. I hope you guys will continue to have conversation with us and be a part of the community, I hope you can continue doing business here. I know we all need to take a break and get some perspective on this. I wish Leon no I'll will, I hope he gets support from his loved ones to get the help he needs. I hope he finds a good support group or therapist that can help give him some perspective on this. I hope he's able to move on with his life.

And I really hope we can all be kinder and show more respect for mess master as he is answering every single message he's getting, running this site, dealing with business, all with infinite patience, kindness and genuine compassion for all of us. He's taking a lot of abuse right now and that's not going to help or resolve anything. And he doesn't deserve to be attacked for this. We're all upset, a lot of us are triggered. What should be a thought provoking discussion has devolved to a debilitating debate. I still love this fetish, I still love this site, I still love all of you. I hope we can all get through this together with love and understanding.

Hey, stop the abusive crap. Calling you out on being an A-Hole. Giving you the benefit of the doubt here: to quote some nice space-people:



I know that IF I called you an incel snowflake jagoff (which I won't, I promise), you're widdle ickle feewings would be all hurt and you'd complain about free speech 1st Amendment Flag-Wavey blah blah blah yakkity shmakkity. I'm counting on you not being "100% a dick". Hope you don't prove me wrong, I'd hate to come to the conclusion that you are, in fact, "100% a dick". Treat other people with the same respect you'd like to be treated. Otherwise, yo, you ain't gettin' no respect.

But I won't do that. I won't call you names. See. I promised I wouldn't. Because I know you're sensitive. Oh, wait, no, it's because it's a crappy thing to do, in general, and does not add to the conversation, or to the good will that otherwise exists, greatly, on this website.

And, I want to believe that you are 100% here to help.

I'll give you some advice though, for free: Step Away From The Fox News. Step Away From the Fox News. It will turn your brain into prune whip. This is the UMD, not the DCCC. You're safe here. No one is going to bake your blood into bread, or whatever it is Carl Tuckerson is filling your clearly impressionable head with these days.

Throwing bombs in the forum is totally your right, of course. But you are absolutely 100% not free from the repercussions of what you post (none of us are, even us "libtard virtue-signaling simp cancel-culture SJW Marxists Jewish Space Laser George Soros RINO wannabes who somehow voted for both Reagan AND Bush AND Obama" are not free from the consequences of our behavior).

By the way, I didn't know what SJW meant and so I thought it meant "Single Jewish Woman" and I got all excited and put on my best shirt and everything and then I found out it means "Social Justice Warrior" and I was sad because I'm just not into DC Comics or other fantasy creatures like elves and whatnots.

Now, excuse me while I get back to work. The Jewish Space Lasers won't just up and clean themselves, you know.

What you call mob rule others would call the price for positive change. You may not like the thoughts and perspectives shared in this shitshow of a thread, but without them abusers would feel as free as ever to abuse and victims would still see abuse as a thing they have to deal with to make a living.

Now you might not care that much as long as things are still happy and normal in your world--even you called yourself a coward--but other people are built different. I wish I had words of consolation for you in what has to be a difficult time, but tough: society's patience with abusers is running thin.

An official response about everything else will follow, but, this does need to be addressed.

The HR company is 100% real, you had their contact information and could at any time have Googled them.
We actually paid them a lot of money to make sure the investigation was carried out fairly.
Six statements were taken including yours and mine and a conclusion was arrived at.
I have not personally seen the statements?
I was guilty of gross mismanagement, nothing else, no sexual misconduct.
New policies for any future trips were drawn up, codes of conduct including a zero drugs policy, foreign travel contracts and a non-model female chaperone recommended for all future trips, your voices were all heard.

Everyone who went on the trip had work immediately afterwards, including you.

Had you bothered to respond to the HR teams requests for contact with you you would have received the full report and letter.

Those that did were re-employed, but it was decided that those that didn't were not interested in the outcome, so it was decided we couldn't continue to give them work as they didn't seem interested in resolution.

There were many things that occurred on that trip, before my disclosure to you, including one of the girls smuggling drugs into a foreign country (unknown to me until we arrived at the villa), vaping, being very drunk and causing distress to other passengers on a plane (for which they probably would have been arrested upon landing if I wasn't friends with the chief of cabin crew on the flight, which would have been interesting with drugs in one of the girl's suitcases or on her person?), taking drugs class A and B at the villa and an incident of extreme bullying involving one girl being seriously threatened and detained by Four other girls, during which demands including, for money and that girl to be sacked were made to me, to get that girl out of the the very threatening and dangerous situation she was in.
She was absolutely terrified by the way. All before my disclosure.

I lost control completely on that trip long before I even mentioned my conviction and yes, I should have advised all of those on the trip of my conviction, but, that was not the advice I had been given by my probation officers at the time.
They were aware of the trip and all of the girls that were on the trip.
I did tell Two of the girls all about my conviction, the idea being that they could watch out for the girls and that I didn't get accused of something whilst away.

I actually paid for flights for anyone that wanted to leave and a hire car so those who wanted to, could do their own things away from me, all of the bedrooms had locks on the doors.

The costs incurred by that trip, actually caused the company a financial crisis, which is why there was less work for everyone.

So you wanted to work for me so badly afterwards, that when you didn't get the work, you resorted to publicly outing me? OK, fair enough.

What a pathetic reply going completely off subject, once again! Everyone's to blame but yourself and if you can't see it you are deluded. I responded as I should have to the 'HR company' so you and I both know that's utter shit!

You gave your statement, then you didn't respond to the follow ups.

I didn't take it off subject, the subject of the trip was raised by you?

You're lower than vermin

And, I've just received a threatening phone call and series of texts from one of the other girls on the trip and her boyfriend, demanding money from me or they will out me for being a sex offender.

Did you not tell her you've already done that?

I think you may have fucked up her plan a little?

Im sorry you misunderstood my post, i was not comparing sexual offenders to those wearing gold stars. I was asking the question of would you give them the gold stars.
The post was intended to point out the dangers of an angry group of people that feel the need to call for punishment beyond the current legal system.

I think my post was also relevant to your last paragraph here. Again i was asking a question, how far do the opinionated think it should go? If you feel at risk because there is a convicted sex offender on this site then would you have everybody to be checked? Sheer mathematics state that out of X amount of population, X amount are sex offenders meaning its almost guarenteed he is not the only one on this site. Did you feel safer before? knowing that the only one we know about is being removed, do you feel safer now?

I never said that he shouldnt leave the forum, i personally think he should for now, i even said i think its time he took a break. What i dissagree with (opinion) is that everybody else at MW got burned. Yea you can blame him, blame her, blame the mob, blame MM for how it was handled or not handled whatever but at the end of the day its not up to us because we are not the law, we dont even know them or anybody involved and we dont own umd or decide how it runs.
Although like i said i dont agree with MW being removed entirely, i respect the decision of MM to go with the seemingly zero-tolerence nuke order because he runs things and its up to him and he probably wants to play it safe which is fair enough.

Blackmail is illegal and one crime does not justify another. You could take those texts to the police or a solicitor.

Depending on the nature of the threats, such a phone call and text messages should be reported immediately to the police on 999 or 101.

Installing something like ACR or ACR unChained (exactly which one you need depends on which version of Android your phone runs on) to record phone calls makes things a lot easier for the police to investigate threatening or abusive phone calls.

MM has updated the situation. Check the messy or wet look forum.

I'm not sure if I should be glad certain people have decided to provide examples in support of my claim that the worst damage is that the community inflicts upon itself, or if I should just continue to be horrified and infuriated.

Eh, who am I kidding. The latter is the only justifiable response.



Yep, better to burn it all down than work toward a safer and saner environment, eh?

A few points:
- If you feel the need to point out that some of the people speaking out "on the other side" are women, and especially if that's the only observation you can make about their post, then your position is misogynist to its very core.

- The terms "virtue signaling" and "simps" have never, ever been used in a good-faith argument. They are only attempts to ignore opposition by casting unfounded aspersions at its intent and sincerity. It's a fallback for those who argue for the abhorrent and indefensible.

- The same is largely true for "witch hunt". People went after MostWAM because Leon's its (apparently sole) owner, after Al because so many of their posts read like textbook examples of defending/excusing a sexual abuser, and after the whole bunch for allowing the matter to be covered up. Active or passive, their action or inaction meant that employees were unknowingly putting themselves at risk by working with someone who - at least at one point in his career - seemed to think that the environment gave him the go-ahead for direct sexual interaction. It doesn't.

- Hanging onto the "guilty plea isn't a guilty verdict" bit is semantic nonsense, especially since Leon has admitted that he did what the victim accused him of! He (and you) may not see it as a crime, but very clearly a lot of people do. The legal standing of the case means not a damned thing because, as you've pointed out, this isn't a court of law. It's a community, and we have to act in a way to keep that community secure.

- The "additional punishment" argument is likewise an old bad-faith standard, because it tries to relabel community action as "vigilante justice", rather than as an attempt to protect vulnerable members of the community and show them the respect and care that we ourselves would demand in the same circumstances. This isn't an attempt to inflict punishment. It's self-defense against someone whose actions have hurt us. Community management demands actions in these circumstances, lest the community tear itself apart. Although, that seems to be something you'd be fine with...

- Yes, it's the "extremist 1%" and not, you know, the people who commit crimes that taint the community - and the people who defend them! - that are the problem. It's very easy to blame "extremists" if you ignore the fact that there would be no issue if there were not a violation at the center of this problem. Not to mention that this is yet another entry in the abuse-defender playbook - cast the other side as a minority of troublemakers so you don't have to actually engage with them.

In short, there is not the slightest bit of the text I quoted above that is anything but bad-faith arguing and community-destroying behavior. As long as this is allowed to persist on these forums, the damage done by this incident will never heal.


This is NOT HELPFUL. At all. In fact, it reads like nothing less than an attempt to recast those who are calling for professional accountability and the protection of the community from an unrepentant predator as the unjustified aggressors in this situation. The addition of the Nazi comparison - as if there was any parallel between the two - is what pushes this into the realm of the completely intolerable. This is NOT the blind, irrational hatred of racism. It is discomfort prompted by the revelation that someone who violated an employee hid that fact for two years, both from us and other employees, so that he could remain in the position he abused when he committed the act. It is anger that other women could have (and indeed may actually have!) been victimized, and that this was considered unworthy of mention until someone blew the whistle. If you can't see the difference between the two motivations, then might I suggest that the problem is on your end of things.

By fucking Nergal (to continue my references to obscure ancient deities), I need a drink...

WOW! Go the work for one day and come home.... And its blown up

Fully understand and respect MM decision Regarding Mostwam and Leon

Its been a challenging last few days for everyone

I think UMD needs time to heal now... Cos its been ripped apart

I know I should leave this alone, but I just wanted to tell you Cal that ALL of the models you've mentioned in this thread thus far no longer work with Mostwam (and I don't think it takes a detective to figure out why).

So despite having spent the better part of the weekend defending a convicted sex offender on here, you will not be able to enjoy any new Mostwam work from the likes of Sky, Amber, Casey, etc. Not on here, or anywhere else.

Given that information, I suggest you re-read thru this entire thread, now hopefully being able to do so with your eyes and heart (assuming you have one) instead of your dick. I think that might be a good way for you to start the healing process.

How do we know Sky has left Mostwam? Did anyone mention that... I don't know i might have missed that news somewhere

Even if you're happy with the outcome and believe expelling Leon & Co is the right choice, and it probably is, does it bother anyone else that the OP's version of events makes no sense?

I fully admit this doesn't matter overall, but their story that they are an unconnected party contacted out of the blue by a whistleblower is total nonsense. Because of course if you were a whistleblower you'd choose some random account with almost no posts rather than going to Candy or Kelsey or Derek himself, or literally anyone else.

Sorry, just as someone who plays social deduction games, it bothers me when there's a massive hole and an obvious lie in someone's story like that.

OP is not who they claim to be. That's all I know. And it doesn't matter. But it bothers me.

It's MM's job. This is his forum so if he feels a need to do this...and probably for the best...he can.

And he's not doing it on the basis of even what someone said. Leon pleaded guilty. NOW he says he was given bad legal advice but what if it was actually good legal advice? What if he was actually guilty as hell. We have no way of knowing. But it is interesting how his story changed, that's pretty sketchy.

100% agree with this. Something just doesn't add up. And yes it is besides the point but it's a very odd state of affairs. It seems like protecting someone that was apparently silenced wasn't the whole story in this whole very sad situation. I suppose we'll never know.

Sorry

Read whole thread.

I always thought it was a little dodgy in the Gungee videos where Leon rubbed the gunge off females. From his other comments here it seems there HAS in fact been a pattern of inappropriate behaviour for a number of years.

It's 100% certain Leon is a criminal.

But, he got his punishment already. Nobody else has any right to punish him further.

And yet, Messmaster can choose who he wants to have on his website.

I just feel sorry for all his victims.

This is not a relevant tangent. Who OP may really be and what their motivations were for speaking up make no difference at all if the information presented can be supported. Which it is. Attempting to pick apart either, or even just leaving open-ended invitations for others to do the same, derails the discussion and contributes to an environment that is less secure for whistleblowers and victims. That's not what we should want, if we want a healthy forum.

He is not being "punished further". If MM (or any of us) were aware of his crime or conviction when it happened, he would have received the full consequences of his actions then instead of now.

Instead, he deceptively hid it, then lied about it when he was caught, and then tried to justify it when finally admitting it.

His subsequent punishment here is NOT additional punishment for sexually assaulting a model over a year ago. It is the direct consequences of all of his actions.

This should not be hard for everyone here to understand.

Here's maybe an example that is easier for some of you to grasp though:

If I came over right now and kicked you in the balls, and I mean kicked you really really hard, you would feel a MASSIVE amount of pain in your testicles. That immediate pain would be a direct and immediate result of me thrusting my foot into your junk.

Later on tonight, when you're watching your favorite Mostwam video to jack off, you would feel some new pain and discomfort in your balls while jerking your shit around. That pain would also be a direct result of when I kicked your balls super hard earlier, as well as an immediate result of your current behavior making the situating worse.

Does that make sense? Or would an in-person example be more effective

I'll put you down as a "No".

I acknowledged that it doesn't matter and made no difference, but it still bothers me that the OP's backstory is an obvious lie and nobody else spotted it. You lot would suck at Werewolf, that's all I'm saying.

Oh I forgot about those, he always had his hands all over them. Sure sure, it's for safety...but interesting how a guy shows up Leon finds they can manage just fine by themselves, without his hands on their hips or anywhere on them at all.

I wonder why it had to be Leon doing it and not a female employee.

For the record, I found no evidence that VAVAVIE was also any other member of this site.

Anyone is always free to contact me if they want me to run a spider on a user's IP address to check for any shenanigans. Sometimes intuitions are right.

My disinterest in OP's identity comes from an understanding that any backstory inconsistencies are likely there because OP is (justifiably, as has been made especially clear in this thread alone) trying to hide their identity to avoid retaliation. As I've said, I've been down this road before, and I'd be willing to say that this is the case at least nine times out of ten. Only very, VERY rarely does this indicate fabrication beyond just concealing identities, and we already know the information OP provided is genuine.

As for Werewolf, it has been some time since I played a round of that. Time to kick the local group into action in time for Halloween...

OP is likely to be someone with an axe to grind with Leon / MostWAM, or some patsy. MostWAM staffers before they got banned mentioned there was a coincidental falling out with one of their employees, and I read between the lines that that person was attempting to blackmail MostWAM by outing this information in an attempt to destroy their business.

No, I wasn't suggesting it's a sock-puppet, just a false backstory and lying about motivations and associations. The fact they ran away as soon as it was pointed out just confirmed it.