They'll have to make you a mod instead!

ITS jayce, not joyce. but hey, when you guys go and look for my free material this guy just promoted, make sure to type in "joyce" okay?? thanks. good first day, dude. i think its going really well for you....... oh and i wont be responding to anything you might try to say back so just please, keep my name, even misspelled, out of your comments when i did and said nothing to you. thanks! welcome to the umd!!!

Yep that's it-just excuses that don't benefit anyone!
It's fairly rare to see WAM stuff for free by an actual producer and usually when it happens it's by someone naive thinking that's the way to go but they tend to fall by the wayside pretty quickly.
However yes it is damaging in the short term if there seemingly is free WAM on offer.
We have actually ordered from a couple of these type of people where it's free to investigate what really happens and inevitably it's too good to be true.
It changes to can you make a donation or buy supplies and then the film itself is awful.
Both the one's we got were so bad,as in being filmed from a laptop's webcam and not even having the girl in shot were hilariously bad,didn't have the right content and then the money troubles story came out complete with Wish List for luxury items.
Same old story-you get what you pay for unless you steal it which is wrong!

I should note that it's not against a rule here to merely mention any tube site or that you have visited one.

I think that to face reality, we have to admit a few things and just deal with them. Like the fact that our content will show up on the tube sites. That's not the same thing as accepting it and not doing anything. We have to admit that each view on a piracy site is not an actual lost sale. But admitting this is not the same thing as accepting the sales we do lose, or loss of control over our intellectual property. Considering objective facts doesn't automatically make you an advocate of the tube sites (just please don't be condescending to others when you do it). It is an uncomfortable topic to not hold a simple binary opinion about, but being real about it will help inform future decisions.

I think the whole media industry kinda is going through what it did with cassette tape recorders and then VCR's back in the day. Anybody can record content if it's streamed to them and we're all freaking out. But in the end, convenience and content quality always won out over "free." Netflix is doing well, though you can pirate most of their stuff. Spotify is huge, though you can get almost every song by ripping right off of Youtube. But people don't seem to want to sit and do that anymore because streaming/cloud services have cornered convenience game. Convenience is the reason, other than "free," why the tube sites are so huge, and it's something we have real power to do something about.

We should keep working to remove our content that was stolen. But that's only half of the game and the other half is learning how to push ourselves forward into the streaming future.

Messmaster

For the record I asked to block one person who was harassing me and after you said you would look into it the response I got was that person harassing me more for "telling on them". So I stopped reading messages for awhile and cut back on being on here because I don't want to deal with childish bullies. I'm not expecting you to police everyone's behavior on this site, that would be horribly unrealistic. A long time ago when you were making updates to the site you messaged me and asked if I had any suggested improvements for the site stating you valued my presence on here and way back then I asked about blocking people. I would use this site way more if I didn't have to deal with harassment and I'm sure a lot of other women feel that way as well. I'm glad to hear you are setting up a system for blocking people, honestly I think that is a smart business move because it will help keep users happy and probably result in less people feeling like they have been forced to leave the site.

Totally totally agree with all the above excellent points made by Jessie.

I too contacted MM about releasing the old clips I have bought from two other producers and reached agreement with him on the appropriate frequency and way to promote these so that people had a chance to buy them again (and I had a chance to make them available) without spamming the forums.

I too can vouch for the fact that several brand new scenes I released last year sold less than 15 copies..and so every single sale helps, meaning the extra sales the vintage scenes bring in help me to be (just about) in a position to continue to make new content.

Like Jessie, I do get messages thanking me for re-releasing classic scenes they thought were gone for good; so for everyone who has no interest in seeing classic scenes become available again, there are plenty who are pleased.

It is all about striking a balance but I do think having old scenes brought back and made available again may be the trade off that enables some producers to keep making new content....it certainly is in my case

.

Really glad to hear there is going to be a block function. Can I throw in a couple of suggestions: MM I know you like detailed information but please, can there be an option right at the top of the page the Block button leads to that doesn't require the user to enter any data or pick options, nor has scary warnings about "permanent records" (like the Report page does) and instead just let's the user block the other user and be done with it? Asking someone to fill in a load of data is emotional labour, which isn't fair to someone who's just been harassed and simply wants to stop the abuse. Lots of women are put off by stuff that looks like it will get taken further because of the real risk of the guy (and it always is a guy) deciding to respond violently, either physically or on-line.

"You do realise in one badly written sentence you've just vindicated EVERYTHING my beautiful brave little Jessica has said and just admitted you are a prime example of the sort of prize person ruining the WAM business dor everyone. "

There's nothing wrong with the sentence you're referring to.

I'm not ruining the WAM business, I buy scenes from producers work I like and I've had streaming subscriptions with some producers as well.

"Obviously you'll delete this account soon or Messmaster will have to ban you/cross reference your ISP for confirming you use pirate sites"

lol, cross reference my ISP for what now? It's rather sad that you want me banned, some might think that's because you've run out of well well reasoned and logical counter arguments to my posts.

"the stooge that was needed to confirm the piracy problem"

eh? Why does it need confirming? Me saying that the piracy sites exist and that content from various producers on here is really easy to find doesn't mean anything. Just because I know that it's there doesn't mean that I've done anything wrong so please don't make assumptions.

"ITS jayce, not joyce"

Damn autocorrect strikes again.

"my free material this guy just promoted"

I'm not promoting anything other than open discussions. The vast majority of pirated stuff available for download that I've seen (that stuff I've seen available for download) doesn't mention the producers or models, it merely has a few keywords and that's it. There might be a few thumbnails which makes it easy to identify which producer or model the work belongs to, you'll be relieved to know that no one is going to find anything if they search for Jayce or Joyce.

"I think that to face reality, we have to admit a few things and just deal with them. Like the fact that our content will show up on the tube sites. That's not the same thing as accepting it and not doing anything"

That times at least a million!!

Providing an easier and better service than people can get from tube sites et al reduces piracy. Realistically it's never going to be stopped, people still record films in cinemas using camcorders or their phones and if some people want to watch the latest box office films in such low quality then so be it, that's their problem. It's the same deal with WAM material, if some people really want to spend their time browsing through the tube sites or piracy forums looking for scenes they like rather than signing up for a streaming service where you have every single piece of work made by that producer then that's up to them. Sooner or later they're going to wake up and realise how much time they've wasted looking for specific scenes but until then, good luck to them!

I've got a question for an admin... I've had messages from people asking where pirated WAM material can be found but the thing is, half the messages are from producers. "Wanted to ask what other sites do you think are becoming hotbeds for pirated WAM besides Pornhub? Trying to be proactive about it and find new solutions".

Is it okay for me to give them URLs to sites I know of where they could look through to try and find their material? I am going to get flagged up for sending messages with the URLs? I just want to check that I'm not commiting a cardinal sin by giving URLs to producers!

That info requirement and the note are both what will make this possible IMO. The reason there hasn't been a personal block feature so far has been specific: To reduce blow-back on our users. Instead, I respond to any complaints and block the offenders site-wide myself. If anyone is going to be targeted by a person who feels they've been humiliated by being blocked, it will be me instead of you... but so what, I can actually kick them off. Because of this, the issue of returning nagging pests has now been quelled to just a couple of cases a year, at least so far as I understand.

But it's become clear to me that there are more nuanced reasons for wanting to block a person, like instances where the other person hasn't really done anything wrong yet but gives the wrong vibe, or where you suspect the other person is like an ex or something. People have their own reasons for feeling more comfortable having someone blocked. A block feature is also instant, and you don't have to wait for an admin.

But the blow-back issue remains, and I can't communicate to you guys enough how real it is. I need to compile this information so I can understand the context myself, know how to respond to the user later, and see when I need to take even further moderation action than just a block. There are a lot of users here to keep track of, and I think building a character history is the most fair way to approach it.

A block action will basically be treated like a report and I need everyone to treat it as seriously as I am, so that's why I don't make it a secret that your report will be added to the other user's history. They won't see the note so it's not meant to be intimidating or have a chilling effect.

I want to say that I have no problem at all with producers advertising vintage material. In fact I'm baffled as to why people have a problem with it! Surely we all need producers to make as much money as possible, so that they are motivated to keep making more product. So my message to MM is, please don't make life harder for producers by introducing tighter rules.
I disagree profoundly with the OP.
PS I am not a producer! I just appreciate all they do for us, and they need rewarding.

I think in a perfect world that is fine, however this is an imperfect world. Some of you involved in this post remember that I was a different user not that long ago. I had personal emotional health reasons that I felt I should delete rather than suspend my account. People can just delete and create another account, hell they can create multiple accounts without deleting them.

I have to agree with DM1 on that filling out all the info all the time is emotionally draining to the victim too. I have a very dear friend who is a producer here and had dealt with issues like this to the n-th degree outside these forums in the real world. They were assaulted. For over a year they've time and time again had to relive this incident for various reasons (police reports, someone else had a similar story, etc.) This, in a similar fashion led to them having less presence here as well. Hell, there are a LOT of female producers that used to be fairly regular here as recent as last year that I haven't seen around in a long time. Things like this many times are the reason for people taking their own lives, especially women.

You and I cannot relate to what they have gone through because we have not shared those experiences.

Furthermore, I take this moment to acknowledge that I personally am responsible for one such person who has reduced their presence here. It was an action I never intended, and I betrayed that person's trust (on my previous account). So I get what you're saying when you refer to the people that give off a wrong vibe or really don't mean any harm. But just like when you unintentionally break a law, you're still responsible for your own actions; whether they were intended or not.

And one thing I'd like to add here since piracy ALSO became another tangent discussed here. The origin of every pirated movie on the web is the same. Either, it was stolen from a database, OR and I believe this to be the more likely scenario; a CUSTOMER bought the content AND consciously and willingly posted this purchased content for others to gain for free. I understand the "free free free gimme gimme gimme" mentality of the "feeders" the illegitimate consumers of the product. What I cannot wrap my head around is why YOU people who originally supported the producer of the content and spent your own money for the content would feel compelled to POST IT!!!? It's THIS side of piracy that is completely maddening to me.

What you may not understand, is that, if 1000 views on a piracy site results in 10 lost sales, it's a big deal for many WAM producers; especially when you're talking about 10 lost sales per clip.

How would you feel if I took $200 a week out of your paycheck?

It has to be remembered that UMD, though it's a business, is very much a philanthropic enterprise. That's why there are no unrelated aggressive or even malicious 3rd party ads for casinos and premium porn sites. So, occasionally coming across a promotion post for old material is possibly a small price to pay. Commission is only charged to store holders in the event of a clip being sold. We are prohibited from running a launch twice, of course, but we are encouraged to run discount sales and need to keep our material moving. It is a fine balance between falling off the chart and outstaying our welcome.

I like to go by Bill Shipton's rule "Commercial posts must have pictures!" in other words, promotional threads must pay for their space by at least providing entertainment to its members - like a free clip or some pictures or moving GIFs.

In spite of it not being at all lucrative, new material is being produced and promoted every single day somewhere on the site on an unprecedented scale. There is an open invitation to all members to create witty and original posts and to sell their own original material in a store. Show us all how it should be done!

People bitching about producers advertising old videos... will wonder why producers don't make new videos at some point.

A little inside baseball for you... it's back catalogue that makes money. New videos take time to actually make money and producers gotta eat.


As for piracy, it's only started to hit us over the past few years but it caught up. Now part of a producers time is spent chasing down and issuing takedowns - which is unproductive admin. It's solving problems we shouldn't have by law.

Ultimately, its time spent not doing work we get paid for which means we need to sell more videos to make up for the time spent taking down illegal publishing of our work.

I'm still debating starting up again, it's tough debate on whether it's actually worth it.

Absolutely this, well said Trouso

Any promo posts from me always have free pictures. I have plenty of free videos on youtube. I (and henners) have in the past posted loads of free sets of my own personal wam

I also run a good many adverts for my older material but the thing is, new material, especially since streaming was introduced and piracy levels started getting silly, takes time to get into any kind of profit zone. It needs to be backed up with further sales of older material - and that is fine, it still sells but it needs to be advertised to be seen.

I pay for those adverts and so it contributes towards the UMD continuing without any of those nasty intrusive adverts from 3rd parties that Trouso mentions

More importantly it also helps fund the new material everyone wants and then those get advertised too, along with free pics in every forum post and often a trailer - sometimes with the odd free vid or bit of bonus content thrown in

I don't have any problem whatsoever with being kept on my toes in an evolving industry. It makes it harder yes but I'll deal with that, always have and it makes it fun and interesting and lively and makes us all more creative.

I do have a problem with entitled attitudes and no appreciation from those who have no idea the cost, time and sacrifice that goes into producing, and whingeing about the things such as adverts that make it JUST about possible to avoid shutting down - those who have forgotten how sweet they have it here. I hope this thread goes some way reminding them.

Thankfully there are a great deal of wammers who do appreciate it all, understand what goes into it and lend their endless support. Big thanks to all the gooduns!

Other fetishists don't have it anywhere near as good. The UMD is an amazing place that is free to use and that only houses relevant, non intrusive adverts and absolutely tons of personal pics and free content. I am massively grateful to MM and will gladly keep on seeing the same ads even from as far back as when I first joined because there is so much new stuff as well and we are so lucky to even have this place anyway.

I might be completely off topic here but i'd like to add my thoughts not that there worth anything more than anyone else's

Since i started shooting video's with Messymaddie (2012) I've been hit with chargebacks from a outside store i made (i take a good guess it was by a person who's probably gone onto sharing video's with other people)

In terms of people sharing my content online i've not really had that issue but when i have i've quickly had messages from other producers and other umd members who tell me it's on there as i'd try to do with other producers.

What i do believe that has happened and it's debatable whether it is bad or good is there is far more choice there are sites like fiver where you can pay a person a small amount of money to basically do a custom that id guess hurts custom producers hard.

I would say in my personal experience again may be different to others is that i've always had steady sales recently slowing a little but i'm hopeful that things will pick up i wouldn't say the sales have dried up for anyone though my top selling video is well on the way to be beaten by Maddie's latest clip which has now been on less than 1 Month!!! which i could technically rip her clip to shreds i mean there isn't even a white plastic chair but its worked for her i'd never be a producer who toots there own horn to me everyone who creates a download store deserves a lot of credit.

I don't believe that promoting content which is older is a bad thing at all last year i had a subscription to 'girlsgetgunged' older content and i thought that was excellent i also took advantage of Candy's sale (again quality content) which in my opinion as a producer would of been an excellent way for people to get a massive saving on content to then place it on certain websites (hopefully that hasn't happened)

As noise says, its the back catalogue that makes the money hence wanting to promote older films. Despite giving up on new films and sessions a few years ago we still sell a reasonable amount of our films from the back catalogue. If that looked like it was doing well enough then we'd also consider starting up again in the summer. For us, it was the loss of sessions that hit us most with so many others jumping on the band wagon of sessions. Without the sessions it wasn't viable for us to continue.

Hi Eric,
As the OP of this this thread I just wondered if your question regarding the older films and adverts etc had been answered.
Jessie of course is my partner and I'm not sure if her product was included in those you dislike seeing but if so I just wanting to check and see if you think the fact she clearly labels older films as Vintage,has a demand for them,gets income from them,the UMD gets income from them and hence exists etc made sense to you and if so made it more acceptable.
What may be of interest to you is that Jess and I flick through the forums too and we do agree there is a LOT less new content and even more so a LOT less variety of content and interesting threads.
Off forum we know how many producers ARE disheartened seeing hard work not turn into an acceptable return which leaves those who have a back catalogue or indulge in the fetish themselves.
We too would like to see more interesting and new stuff.
In fact Jess over the last year,along with others like Jayce etc have tried to think of new ways to create interest (like Rear of The Year,different promo's etc etc) but the response is ok but never huge.
Anyway just know the films are posted with good intent including the free ones she has posted once or twice a year.
Regards Mike

Ok to address your participation on the Forum.
Whichever way you look at it to create a new pictureless identity JUST to comment on my post,which genuinely explained the reality of making films etc,is strange.
It's not against the rules of UMD to create a new ID but it's pretty spineless if you are are a regular user of UMD.
You speak with a self perceived expertise on this business so why be anon?
Why not post under your normal identity?
Are you a producer yourself out of interest?

Regarding piracy views versus sales.
Yes I know in reality 1000/4000/10000 or whatever number of thieving scrotes watching a producer's product would ALL pay if the stolen material wasn't there.
However it's still theft so yes I have had that money stolen,although the net result is that probably a very small percentage would have been customers if the free stuff wasn't there.

You say there are LOTS of producers still producing top quality material and doing well for themselves.
Obviously this isn't correct otherwise the topic regarding the lack of new product,lots of producers not bothering anymore to produce,old material coming back out etc wouldn't be discussed so often.
Back this up with facts.
Lets say LOTS which indicates maybe hundreds,we say is just 30 in this case.
Name 30,no in fact, name 20 WAM producers producers doing really well from it.
In the UK VAT registation is needed after a turnover of £85000 -that's not a profit-just the top line value of ALL sales added together.
How many UK WAM producers are VAT registered?

Regarding old stuff v new stuff.
If I have around 325 Vintage films in a store (some not seen for 8 years so new to UMD)and around 12 brand new films (as in made in the last few months) isn't it logical that there will be a gross figure of the 325 outselling the 12?
The point is the vintage stuff sells and income wise the excellent value bundles I do really well for the customer and me and the UMD who get commission on sales.

The point about the trailers is not that the new product is rubbish as you'd nastily try and suggest but that the viewer is getting to wanking stage just from the trailer.
We went through the store this week and we have a film that has a trailer of 43,000 views and 3 sales.
It's a great trailer.
Doing trailers is something I've only started against this year as it was suggested by the UMD advice for producers.
6 other girls have been touch about the trailers hitting their figures badly!
The new films without trailers have miles better sales
So guess what,no more trailers for my new films!
The sad thing is I have to charge much more these days for customs because of the people who only want free stuff.
Fortunately I do really well with customs and sessions but it's those lovely people who are having to pay more to justify me doing the work.
I'm VERY grateful to them.

Your comment:
"Most people don't want a sob story to go with the clips they're wanking to."
This is a pathetic comment,but probably why you chose not to have the balls or bravery to post under your normal identity.
The OP raised a reasonable point about not enjoying adverts etc
My answer to that was trying to explain the ecomonics of the current scenario for producers (whether they are 'doing well' or not).
Your answer is provocative and as with the whole tone of your first ever post -nasty and aggressive.
Producers come and go as you say,with a lot more going than coming.
Well I'm still here,despite being single for most of it and raising two kids and really ill for most of it.
Yes I'm blessed now with better health and having Mike but I'd say I've done ok to still
be here,still selling 'recylced old content' which must be pretty good for it to get me high up in the sales chart along with new stuff that someone has paid me a lot of money for.
Just because I have that success doesn't mean I shouldn't react when people steal from me.
I don't give a toss if businesses should account for some theft and it's expected.
That doesn't change the fact that thieves are thieves and it's wrong.
We as producers can all adapt for theft,react to theft,try and make theft go away but if you watch pirated films you are a thief-end of story!

Just bear in mind this was your first post on here and it wasn't a nice one.

Jessie

As I've just said in the other post if you are showing knowledge of this business,have so many opinions and your first post was quite aggressive then it's obvious that it's dodgy (though not against the rules) that you couldn't post under your normal persona and have to hide behind an anon ID.
I'm posting as me not as some pretend person.

I'm not pretending I like you or anyone with similiar views to you.
A turd seemed a good description without using extreme swear words.

You are having a go saying I am 'shouty shouty'.
Sorry but just because I'm standing up to your offensive post and some other producers haven't done doesn't mean I should be bullied into not stating the truth re. theft and the bad attitude of some thieving customers.

Streaming memberships are the future you say.
Ok what's your point?
I worked with Messmaster and launched the UMD Streaming memberships.
Does that make me a good producer or a bad one?

You keep explaining what a 'good producer' does including internal things that a 'good producer' does.
Are you are a producer yourself?
We have a system involving a number of people that take down pirate clips.
This must make me a 'very good' producer because we have more than one person doing it.
It doesn't mean ANY of us think the theft is acceptable.

"You're not hard to find on piracy sites and neither is Joyce or any of the other producers you mentioned"

Ok so it seems pretty likely you are a thief who watches pirate sites.
It's not a rule on UMD that admission of such a thing is an offence-I think it should be an offence unless mention of it is to be helpful.
If your motives are good then why not send Messmaster links to any pirates sites that show work from my store or Jayce's etc
That isn't again UMD rules and would be the correct moral thing to do.
You can't disagree with that unless you are dishonestly watching those sites.

"Sure you're not on p**nh*b et al but those sites are nothing."
"Those sites are nothing" comes across as you boasting that there are better places to get pirate material than the massive one.
I personally believe any mention of the existence of the theft site should be removed from the public forum as it merely educates people of it's existence.
The fact you state there are much better,bigger sites (and it seems like you are proyd of the fact) really takes all your credibility away
UNLESS
you are providing this useful information to Messmaster in order to stop the thefts from continuing.

"If you're always at the top of sales board, what's the big deal?"
Again this loses you an credibility.
The fact I do ok in the sales charts when I put the work in doesn't give anybody the right to steal my work.
Is that how a thief thinks,oh that person has worked hard and is successful so I'm entitled to go and take something for free?
I think you'll find that mentality ends in jail for a lot of people.

Well as Jess has said you should provide the links for any stolen material but to Messmaster directly.
That would be you doing a good thing.

Regarding your ISP Messmaster did of course check it and cross reference it.
Your experience and detailed info re. methods of dealing with piracy etc are interesting to read and in line with some of the methods currently employed by producers on the UMD.
I have to say therefore why have you created this new profile to enter the discussion?
It's obvious you have been around a while.
You're never going to win Jess over as a fan but that's because of the way you entered this thread.
If you say provocative things,esp to a sensitive girl who has been through a lot you are going to get a reaction back and actually everything she has said does raise valid points.

To simplify things though.
Piracy is wrong.
Piracy exists.
We have to accept it exists.
We DON'T have to accept it's right and should ALL do everything to help irradicate it.

So can we,starting with you 'Just Visiting' start working towards protecting UMD producers as much as possible.
You can lead the way by sending Messmaster the links,the few keywords you need to type in etc
That way everybody on here knows you are an honest,decent person and nobody needs to make assumptions you are a thief,a bitter ex producer,a current producer trying to discredit another producer or any of the other conspiracy theories that keep arriving in Jessie's email inbox.

Fair enough?

Okay, I'm moving this to Off-topic.

Thanks!

Yeah this place is getting sad with less and less active members and less and less new stuff

Seems amazing to me there is a local lack of reality regarding business,money and time from some people on here as if they expect material for their fetish to just appear by magic.
I like seeing pies in the face and it's not an accepted mainstream detish.
The fact the UMD exists at all is a miracle and relief to me.
The fact producers like Messy Jessie,Messygirl,Jayce,Ariel,Candy and many more exists at all is a miracle and relief to me.
It's evident it's getting harder and harder for these guys to make a decent living out of
this fetish.
Then when somebody moans about seeing free pictures/film clips/adverts some of them take the time to try and explain in detail why they have to advertise,promote their businesses some of the answers are so disrespectful.
As the majority have said it seems so obvious the producers need to advertise and sell their 'back catalogue' to survive.
Maybe if everyone actually who moaned actually read through the explanations given they wouldn't need to moan in the first place.

Just to clarify if part of my post here doesn't make sense it was in answer to the OP Eric who had posted he couldn't be bothered to read the explanations because 'Life's too short".
Now he's deleted it.

Really?
Can't say I'm surprised.
The minority show little clue as to the reality of this business and just think the Wam all appears by magic whilst they contribute little.
I should say thanks though actually for the tons of emails/texts/messages I've had being supportive and grateful for what we do.
That's both customers and producers so thanks!
Jessie xx

To be clear, I did post a brief comment that "Life's too short" which was in frustration at the number of lengthy off topic replies the thread was attracting. So much so that the thread even got moved to the "Off topic" forum.

As this post then attracted an accusation of me not being interested in any of the replies I realised it was misleading so I deleted it.

You posted your opening post in 'Messy'
Requests were made on day one for it to move to Off Topic as it clearly had no Messy content.
That's why it was moved to Off Topic.
The main point is still that you've have explanations from many producers now why
it's necessary for the adverts/back catalogue to enable the UMD/producers to survive plus the fact that many customers are very pleased at being able to buy films they've never seen before or have bought before and lost.
Maybe just acknowledge the hard work that makes a big choice of WAM so readily available to available-while it lasts!

Why be anon? Because it's easier and by being anon I don't get nearly as much abuse.
It matters not if I'm a producer, be it in this industry or any other industry.


That's open to debate and we're getting off on a bit of a tangent as the objective is to turn those pirates into paying customers.





It's a matter of opinion whether lots of producers are still producing top quality material. The idea that they're doing well for themselves is a bit of guesswork on my part based on if they're increasing the number of productions, working with bigger budgets, seeming to be a full time operation rather than a part time hobby, etc etc etc

I'm not an accountant so I'm not going to speculate on how producers are managing their tax affairs or how they minimise their tax bill. How many are VAT registered is not my problem, I don't want to know such details in fact I don't even want to raise such questions.

I would agree that 325 old titles will most likely outsell 12 new titles.

However very simply in layman's terms, old content being recycled is boring. That is however a matter of opinion, etc etc etc.

3 sales and 43,000 views of the trailer is somewhat staggering, I must say I wasn't expecting the ratios to be quite that bad! Forty three [b]thousand[/b] cheap skates...

If customs and sessions are effectively subsidising general content then that's a bit of a sorry state of affairs.

I fully intend for my posts to be provocative but not nasty or aggressive. I see provocative conversations as being a possibility for coming up with solutions.

Intellectual property theft isn't going to stop. Hollywood and whatever big software companies have been trying to stamp out The Pirate Bay for god knows how many years now. Nobody should admit defeat but it's important to be realistic.

There's nothing wrong with knowing what some of the big piracy sites are and there's also nothing wrong with looking at them to see what's been recently added.

You assume that I haven't already been discussing things with Messmaster.

I'm not boasting that there are bigger / better (both of which are subjective as I'd describe them as being less user 'friendly' but there's a hell of a lot of content on them) sites than the tubes and pornhub but by mentioning the existence of those bigger sites means that producers are more likely to do something about their content.

Downloading stuff or watching pornhub doesn't end with people going to prison. That's being realistic and proportionate.

I'm not trying or wanting to win anyone over as a fan. My objective was to provoke conversation and ideas about the piracy problem, I'm not in the slightest bit bothered about conspiracy theories about how I'm a thief,a bitter ex producer,a current producer trying to discredit another producer or whatever other ideas people have come up with. None of those theories are right and there is no interesting back story to me or why I'm posting here.

There is one thing that I will say is that I wouldn't be bothering to post stuff on here about the piracy problems if I didn't care about the WAM industry.