Well, I've been thinking whether I should join the arena or not...
So I decided to grab my spear and shield and come along. :devil:

About the "giving away ideas and maybe getting to see the clip or pics": the community has probably had enough of scammers and smartasses, but that doesn't mean crucifying anyone that might sound like it is right.
Only one single person called the shots and asked him to show what he had. I believe that should be the "normal" reaction, after all. :-S

Let me tell you a story about a guy who enjoyed slippery scenes, something still so small that no one would probably ever care to produce regularly.
I always had to go for customs, for I thought to be alone in this boat. Already spent around $1000 in customs, from amateurs and professionals, ranging from $30 to $100. Yeah, not the most expensive ones, but that's my budget in a 2-to-$1 currency conversion scenario (now 3.14 to $1).

One day, I found out some other people were sponsoring slippery customs in Clips4Sale. I even found a Yahoo Group for people interested in slippery scenes. So... maybe it's viable? Maybe these people would be interested in splitting the tab? I don't know.

In the past, I thought about suggesting UMD's producers if they'd be willing to negotiate and earn extra bucks for shooting quick slippery scenes in an already messy floor from the main shot. Simple briefings, low complexity, done in a jiffy.
If the model's hour still has a few minutes running and all you'll need is (i) another pair of shoes, (ii) maybe add some oil, conditioner or such and (iii) some footwear cleanup afterwards, why not go for some extra cash? Place is already a mess, anyway.

I never really made that suggestion public. Maybe now I realize why: would probably end up being hit with rocks, bricks and flamethrowers.

Still, if any producer feels like AT LEAST discussing the idea, there's money involved and I can show you the path to maybe sell the extra clip for a few more slippery fans.

You know, I get requests/ideas/suggestions etc. on a near-weekly basis. Not on this forum, but privately, via PM or email. A few of them are clearly very-personalized-custom-ideas in disguise... A lot are pretty good though.

Unfortunately, most of them are either:
--way too complicated or expensive to pull off well (pipe dream ideas), or
--too risky or specialized to commit to without custom money.

And here's the thing: I almost NEVER do customs. So I don't make people "pay" to see their suggestions in action. Especially years ago, if someone threw out a good idea, I'd just shoot it with a model that matched well. And some were really good. (One guy wrote the entire secretary skit that worked very well.) And a lot... Didn't sell. (Overalls. Clown girls. Supergirl. The hook.)

So, not to be cynical, but a lot of people SAY they want something "really different," but the outlier scenes tend to be the ones that either sell very well, or very poorly. They're the "all in" bets of WAM. And most of us, these days, tend to stick to the safe bets that we know have a proven audience. It's just the nature of the biz now.

And kudos to producers who throw out a "what do you want to see" question... Although I get the sense that most of the responses tend to fall into the "custom in disguise" or "outlier" categories, and neither of those tend to generate results that are super popular with the (silent) majority.

That.



The problem with people that have "ideas" is that they tend to have zero understanding of the mechanics in making a video with everything from cost to practicality.

Nothing makes me cringe more than someone giving me an idea for a video 999 times in 1000. You would have to think like me, and you'll probably be fine tuning something I already do. That's happened... once.

And now that person is producing.


Then there's another fundamental misunderstanding... if we wanted "ideas" we would ask for them. Most people asking for ideas only do it once though because they soon realise that's a bad fucking idea because people don't understand the practicalities... as they are fantasising.

So... what's next...

Oh yes. the other producers tend to make what they want to make. That's what keeps it interesting. I'm not going to ask for your ideas because... I don't care.

I don't mean that nastily, I simply don't care and that's it. I'll make what i want to make and people will buy it if they like it. If they don't, I don't care because the ones that do have.

You'll find most producers think like that because making stuff you don't like is boring and it shoooooows if you try to.

I'm soooooooo pleased to find others carrying the asshole banner for me in here... I'd hate to actually speak my mind and get banned again.

These kind of posts make me feel like Harvey Two-Face.

One side says, chill out, be nice to each other. Lets just calmly explain how it goes down here and lets all be friends. And then another part of me just says. "Fuck off'.


Jessie xx
www.messy-jessie.com

Fair play looks like I've caused a war lol so my apologies for that. I can see why people would get annoyed with people looking for freebies but I wasn't fishing for any.

If I was a bit more experienced in this I would have approached it differently and tried not to cause world war 3 lol

Anyway I just wanted to say thank you to all who were understanding reasonable and helpful so cheers peeps

If your ideas are that good, go make the videos. Simple as.

I apologize to you. Even if you were just trying to get freebies, it was still just a harmless query, and the level melodrama and cynicism was completely unwarranted. The people in here are very passionate, but that's no excuse to jump down your throat just because they think you asked for something free. I could think of a lot worse things you could have done.

Thanks MM I really do appreciate your support

And I think that's as fair/honest a response as there could be; both make total sense; as others have said/argued, there IS about as much stupid as there is worthwhile amongst the posts; there IS about as much trolling as there is good (although i'd argue there's a LOT more free content compared to the amount of shitty wasteful "gimme gimme gimme" posting), etc.

I feel there's a big tendency to jump down peoples' throats, but on the other hand, I've seen weird/lazy/vapid/hollow posts go up and nobody really replies and the thing dies out, so... Perceptions/sensitivities are everything.

C'est la WAM.

JY

From someone who knows, the easiest way to get your ideas on film accurately? Film them yourself.

BUT... If you're not in that position, I would recommend finding a producer whose sensibility closely matches yours. Buy a few of their clips... Maybe correspond to see if they're chatty. (Most producers have NO problem with you emailing to say "Bought this clip and loved it!" Or even going into specifics about said clip.)

THEN... If you offer ideas... They might be more receptive. And if your sensibilities ARE aligned, the producer might really use your input.

I won't name names (he's not even on UMD anymore I think)... But I had a guy approach me just this way early on. We became friendly, and it turned out he was a GREAT playwright/script writer. He actually liked writing pie skits as a break from the "serious" stuff he wrote normally. I wound up using a LOT of his skits over the years. (As did a few other producers when they "borrowed" them off my site... Ahem. :-S )

Anyway. It wound up being a fruitful collaboration. But that also happened because he had talents beyond mine... AND he was also cool when I told him, "Great script, but I don't think I can make this work with my budget."

You can thank him for the newscaster skit (SS33), the pageant (SS36), Winter Olympics (SS38), The 33rd Annual Slappies (SS55), and the secretary (SS68 & 72)... Among others!

... and you probably would have had people defending you over it.

You SAY that, and yet somehow "Toshia pied in a Bea Arthur mask" still hasn't happened.

WTF:?: When have I taken "a tone" with other peoples products? I'm too busy defending the ones I'm promoting! It's ME who gets attacked! Have you actually READ the posts?! Sure I'll attempt to defend myself and Nadia and the products but I've never done so in a negative way. I am a fan first and foremost, including of yours, and in fact my only complaint about your work is; there isn't more of it! Sadblues Store is here by the way; https://sadblue.umd.net/ . Here's some examples of his excellent work.

Nadia made her bed here. No one (Well, no one that matters) has a problem with her being transgender, just her lack of up front honesty and her attitude.

PieSub - My understanding of his comment is that it's about the other producers who attacked *you* (and Nadia) when you posted about the new vids.

He mentions producers taking a sarcastic/nasty tone with other producers (you/Nadia) when the products (yours) are advertised. Then he mentions your ads (that by inference, the other producers were attacking).

It's a little round about, but my understanding of it is that he's condemning the producers who attacked you. I don't think he's saying that you attacked any other producers.

I think you misunderstood his intent.

Norman

Overprotection of ideas hits the nail on the head. If OP had said "hey, I'd love to see X and Y while covered in Z... have any producers thought about this?" I highly doubt he would have gotten the response he did.

https://sivers.org/multiply

i am sorry guy who started this thread (has nothing to do with you, really) , BUT I LOVE STEVE BRULE!!! BAHAHAHAH!!!!
DUDE, I AM LITERALLY OVER HERE ABOUT TO PISS MY PANTS LAUGHING!!!!
now i am gonna make my icecubes less boring by making them with juice. not boring ol water.
now, i wanna read the rest of this thread if i can....lol

Yep, sorry Piesub, I should have worded it a bit more clearly. I've nothing against you posting ads for the videos, I was remarking on the other producers in those threads who criticize, backhandedly or otherwise. Norman Mabeld explained what I was trying to get at, so I'll just refer you to his post.

Thanks sadblue, and thanks Norm, (who should probably be working for the U.N.), sorry I got the wrong end of the stick, (oops:footinmouth:maybe that last comment belongs in the "Male Wam Forum"), but if you get attacked a lot, sometimes you can get a bit defensive. On a positive note; the beautiful Wam Goddess Jayce is reading this thread now;


Don't suppose there's a chance of Bunny:lovestruck: and Monique from your movie "Rubber and Pies" getting together with Jayce for a shoot is there? Would be a very sexy clip indeed methinks! Just putting it out there

Unfortunately Bunny has all but retired from modeling (I shot Rubber and Pies almost two years ago now); she finished up her schooling and has a good job. Location-wise she was almost three hours away from me by car when she lived near Harrisburg, PA, so it wasn't always easy to get her for shoots, and she moved to Florida recently, so she's even farther afield now. Monique was Bunny's friend and 'partner in crime' when it came to shoots (they did a few fetish shoots together before Bunny retired), and with Bunny moving away I've all but lost touch with her as well. She did one WAM'ish shoot last year covered in paint that I saw a few stills for, so it's nice to see Monique is still getting regular work!

Thanks for that sadblue. Very informative indeed. Whatever happened to the clip you promoed late last year? You made a post here; https://umd.net/forums/gorgeous-women-of-messy-wrestl ? It looked hot indeed:devil:, and have included your stills. Do you have plans for any new work at all? You have a great sense of sexy fun and naughtiness, you certainly don't skimp on the mess:splat: and you use lovely models to boot.