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"Discussion about Mostwam"
Love you, too
I am just so fucking disappointed by some of the responses here. I am trying so hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, but it is just soul-crushing to see some of the behavior here (much of it more troubling than the actual offense that started this whole conversation).
In the interest of making sure that nobody is making an ill-informed decision/comment based on their personal beliefs and/or sexual desires, I would like to just quickly summarize the facts that have been laid out across the two threads regarding Leon/Mostwam. Not opinions, but facts, as stated by Leon, in this thread and the other.
- Leon made a mistake, under severe emotional circumstances, and sexually assaulted one of his models.
- That model reported the crime. It was investigated. There was enough evidence found that he was prosecuted for it.
- In court, Leon was convicted of sexual assaulting one of his models.
- He then hid this conviction from MM/UMD staff, so that he could continuing doing business here, without any consequence or repercussions.
- He hid his conviction from his customer base, so that he could continuing making money off of us without any judgement towards how we see his content. (Although based on the comments in this thread, it looks like that was an unnecessary step, since it's become abundantly clear that the lot of you would be more than happy to purchase content from a convicted sex offender. Congrats!).
- He also hid his conviction from his employees at first, most of which are young models, so that he could continue operating his business as usual, without any consequences related to his conviction for sexually assaulting a model.
- After being able to hide this for over a year, one of the models that works for him found out about it. He then terminated this model's employment. She then approached a member here and notified them about the whole thing.
- That is the ONLY reason we now know about it. He had no intention of telling us. He had no intention of telling MM. He had no intention of telling his models/employees. In ALL of those examples, he was caught.
- After being caught, he stated here that he was innocent, that he did not actually commit any sexual assault, but that he pleaded guilty to it only to avoid his fetish and business from being in the public eye (despite that fact that his fetish and business ARE already public)..
- He then claimed that his decision to plead guilty in court was influenced by fears/pressure related to the 2017 #MeToo movement being in "overdrive" at the time, and in specific, the March 2021 trial for the murder of Sarah Everard (despite it being March of 2022 when he entered said guilty plea).
- He then later admitted that he did in fact commit the sexual assault that he was convicted of, and said that it was a mistake made while seeking solace in a friend during a tumultuous period for him personally. He that he regretted his actions and any harm they caused, and explained that he was under severe emotional distress at the time of the event due to personal trauma.
- He then stated that steps were taken at Mostwam to assure preventing this type of thing from ever happening again. (despite previously claiming that it never actually happened and that he was actually innocent)
- He then later admitted that he was not immediately forthcoming about his conviction (of sexually assaulting a model) with the models that he worked with. (despite previously claiming that there were steps put into place to make sure future sexual assaults wouldn't happen)
- He then admitted that one of the models that has worked with him happily for several years found out about his conviction and voiced concern about it and then was terminated. She has since approached a member here (surely out of spite for being fired) to out him for the crime that he has; claimed innocence to, admitted guilt to, lied about, attempted to justify, and most importantly hid from everyone for over a year.
These are all things that have been confirmed, by Leon, in this thread and the other thread. None of the above is conjecture or opinion or up for debate. How you feel about all of these facts is up for you to decide, but there is no debate as to whether the above information is true or not. (and I have been taking screenshots, so it doesn't matter if he goes back and edits/deletes the posts).
Earlier in the other thread, when I was arguing in support of Leon/Mostwam, (before he completely destroyed the enormous amount of goodwill I was giving him due to my own personal perverted interests in him maintaining his business) I said;
His behavior since has been entirely that of "someone of general poor character". I am not concerned with punishing him for what he did in the back of that van. He has already been punished by the courts for that. I AM concerned with his ability to sexually assault other models, and my concern about that started at 0% when this thread began, and has since risen to 100%, solely because of his responses here.
Nobody on here, with the exception of CalGungeFan, is a bigger Mostwam fan than me, as evident by the 440GB's worth of content I've bought from them over the years.
https://umd.net/media/forum_uploads/10_22/screenshot20221023at125739pm_uid_77710_1666560443_10552.png
Also, Hi, My name is Kelsey and I am a sex addict.
Put simply, there is no Fucking way any of you jerk off to Leon's material as much as I do, and I would be shocked if there was anyone who wanted to be able to continue jerking off to his material more than me. The fact that I have 180'd on my support of him/Mostwam since this discussion started on Friday should tell you all that you need to know. It is like a heroin addict in the throes of being dope sick arguing in favor of preventing her drug dealer from being able to sling his smack.
And yet, here I am, spending more time trying to help some of you understand that financially supporting a sex offender who hid and lied about his crime is a bad thing.
Like this shit isn't hard you guys. Leon clearly sexually assaulted a model, he clearly hid it from MM and UMD staff, he clearly hid it from us, and he clearly lied about it and tried to justify it in the hopes that he would be able to remain unaffected by any of the above transgressions. And that is just going by the information he has provided.
I don't have a problem with UMD letting Mostwam continue operating here.
I don't have a problem with anybody who continues to buy their content.
But I do have a serious fucking problem with the way some of you have behaved in defense of a convicted sex offender desperately trying to maintain his ability to work with other potential victims while showing no remorse for his actions, and I am honestly disgusted with myself for even being a part of a community that could have such people in it.
I am also proud of all the people who have had the courage to comment here (whether I agree with your comments or not).
But some of you need serious serious help, and it is immensely distressing to share a fetish with you.
In the interest of making sure that nobody is making an ill-informed decision/comment based on their personal beliefs and/or sexual desires, I would like to just quickly summarize the facts that have been laid out across the two threads regarding Leon/Mostwam. Not opinions, but facts, as stated by Leon, in this thread and the other.
- Leon made a mistake, under severe emotional circumstances, and sexually assaulted one of his models.
- That model reported the crime. It was investigated. There was enough evidence found that he was prosecuted for it.
- In court, Leon was convicted of sexual assaulting one of his models.
- He then hid this conviction from MM/UMD staff, so that he could continuing doing business here, without any consequence or repercussions.
- He hid his conviction from his customer base, so that he could continuing making money off of us without any judgement towards how we see his content. (Although based on the comments in this thread, it looks like that was an unnecessary step, since it's become abundantly clear that the lot of you would be more than happy to purchase content from a convicted sex offender. Congrats!).
- He also hid his conviction from his employees at first, most of which are young models, so that he could continue operating his business as usual, without any consequences related to his conviction for sexually assaulting a model.
- After being able to hide this for over a year, one of the models that works for him found out about it. He then terminated this model's employment. She then approached a member here and notified them about the whole thing.
- That is the ONLY reason we now know about it. He had no intention of telling us. He had no intention of telling MM. He had no intention of telling his models/employees. In ALL of those examples, he was caught.
- After being caught, he stated here that he was innocent, that he did not actually commit any sexual assault, but that he pleaded guilty to it only to avoid his fetish and business from being in the public eye (despite that fact that his fetish and business ARE already public)..
- He then claimed that his decision to plead guilty in court was influenced by fears/pressure related to the 2017 #MeToo movement being in "overdrive" at the time, and in specific, the March 2021 trial for the murder of Sarah Everard (despite it being March of 2022 when he entered said guilty plea).
- He then later admitted that he did in fact commit the sexual assault that he was convicted of, and said that it was a mistake made while seeking solace in a friend during a tumultuous period for him personally. He that he regretted his actions and any harm they caused, and explained that he was under severe emotional distress at the time of the event due to personal trauma.
- He then stated that steps were taken at Mostwam to assure preventing this type of thing from ever happening again. (despite previously claiming that it never actually happened and that he was actually innocent)
- He then later admitted that he was not immediately forthcoming about his conviction (of sexually assaulting a model) with the models that he worked with. (despite previously claiming that there were steps put into place to make sure future sexual assaults wouldn't happen)
- He then admitted that one of the models that has worked with him happily for several years found out about his conviction and voiced concern about it and then was terminated. She has since approached a member here (surely out of spite for being fired) to out him for the crime that he has; claimed innocence to, admitted guilt to, lied about, attempted to justify, and most importantly hid from everyone for over a year.
These are all things that have been confirmed, by Leon, in this thread and the other thread. None of the above is conjecture or opinion or up for debate. How you feel about all of these facts is up for you to decide, but there is no debate as to whether the above information is true or not. (and I have been taking screenshots, so it doesn't matter if he goes back and edits/deletes the posts).
Earlier in the other thread, when I was arguing in support of Leon/Mostwam, (before he completely destroyed the enormous amount of goodwill I was giving him due to my own personal perverted interests in him maintaining his business) I said;
KelseyRose said: I am more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that the sexual assault itself was an out of character mistake that was made under the influence of poor mental health in a very difficult time, and that you've taken accountability for it (although not necessarily on here at first ) and have apologized to the parties involved and hopefully learned from your mistake. Mistakes, learning, understanding, and forgiveness are a huge part of life for all of us.
And just to be clear, I don't see you as some evil Harvey Weinstein type of abuser or some misogynistic asshole. But the slope from "making an out of character mistake" to "being someone of general poor character" is slippery, and making excuses and evading responsibility for one's actions are usually accelerators towards the wrong side of that scale.
And just to be clear, I don't see you as some evil Harvey Weinstein type of abuser or some misogynistic asshole. But the slope from "making an out of character mistake" to "being someone of general poor character" is slippery, and making excuses and evading responsibility for one's actions are usually accelerators towards the wrong side of that scale.
His behavior since has been entirely that of "someone of general poor character". I am not concerned with punishing him for what he did in the back of that van. He has already been punished by the courts for that. I AM concerned with his ability to sexually assault other models, and my concern about that started at 0% when this thread began, and has since risen to 100%, solely because of his responses here.
Nobody on here, with the exception of CalGungeFan, is a bigger Mostwam fan than me, as evident by the 440GB's worth of content I've bought from them over the years.
https://umd.net/media/forum_uploads/10_22/screenshot20221023at125739pm_uid_77710_1666560443_10552.png
Also, Hi, My name is Kelsey and I am a sex addict.
Put simply, there is no Fucking way any of you jerk off to Leon's material as much as I do, and I would be shocked if there was anyone who wanted to be able to continue jerking off to his material more than me. The fact that I have 180'd on my support of him/Mostwam since this discussion started on Friday should tell you all that you need to know. It is like a heroin addict in the throes of being dope sick arguing in favor of preventing her drug dealer from being able to sling his smack.
And yet, here I am, spending more time trying to help some of you understand that financially supporting a sex offender who hid and lied about his crime is a bad thing.
Like this shit isn't hard you guys. Leon clearly sexually assaulted a model, he clearly hid it from MM and UMD staff, he clearly hid it from us, and he clearly lied about it and tried to justify it in the hopes that he would be able to remain unaffected by any of the above transgressions. And that is just going by the information he has provided.
I don't have a problem with UMD letting Mostwam continue operating here.
I don't have a problem with anybody who continues to buy their content.
But I do have a serious fucking problem with the way some of you have behaved in defense of a convicted sex offender desperately trying to maintain his ability to work with other potential victims while showing no remorse for his actions, and I am honestly disgusted with myself for even being a part of a community that could have such people in it.
I am also proud of all the people who have had the courage to comment here (whether I agree with your comments or not).
But some of you need serious serious help, and it is immensely distressing to share a fetish with you.
I am also disturbed by some of the comment here too! But maybe different ones too.
I want to continue to support these girls as they want to continue to support us!
they are willing to continue working with mostwam, to support our community... yet we treat anyone that supports mostwam after knowing the "truth" with such disgusted.
I don't believe that these women deserve that... I don't believe I deserve that... I don't believe people deserve that
I want to continue to support these girls as they want to continue to support us!
they are willing to continue working with mostwam, to support our community... yet we treat anyone that supports mostwam after knowing the "truth" with such disgusted. I don't believe that these women deserve that... I don't believe I deserve that... I don't believe people deserve that
Philippa Forrester Found
VAVAVIE said: I'm shocked at some of the male responses on here. I'm amazed any female would like to remain on this Forum. We all like sexual activity but very sinister opinions are flowing from customers and some producers alike. I suggest everybody reads the whole thread before choosing who to spend money with.
Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain
1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when [redacted] left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place
This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.
Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is [redacted] and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, [redacted] or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.
Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.
How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.
Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain
1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when [redacted] left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place
This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.
Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is [redacted] and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, [redacted] or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.
Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.
How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.
You aren't to win the argument that people who like MostWam and it's content and want it to continue are by default ok with Leon still being on the platform. Most people here, if not all, have come to the realisation that Leon needs to go. He's a convicted sex offender, and can't stay on the platform, and more serious and sincere efforts should be made to protect all the models that star in wam videos from now on, and to to make sure victims are taken seriously and have their situations dealt with efficiently.
Someone else pointed out that it's not that MostWam in general is being cancelled, but that we are figuring out how to move on, presumably without Leon. Others have also pointed out that MostWam should be able to continue if Leon steps down and hands the ownership to it to someone more responsible, or have a new site entirely, and would also make sense as a punishment for him, although that wouldn't be nearly enough to justify forgiveness, but it would be a start.
As I've said before, the money generated by MostWam that would have gone into Leons pocket, can be sent to various charities that support victims of sexual assault and rape, making MostWam a genuine force for good, as well as going into potential resources that can help safeguard models from predatory producers (hopefully, by making sure they don't exist in the first place by having some sort of sexual assault awareness course that people have to pass in order to become a producer).
Your tone and attitude isn't one of someone who wants to help. It's one of someone that wants to destroy something at any cost, and that's not being helpful. Instead of yelling at each other, let's actually do something productive and helpful for the people you claim to care so much about.
Also, when did Al become a bad guy here?
Maybe it's just me, but I think everyone has made their point on this thread that has wanted to.
KelseyRose said: I am just so fucking disappointed by some of the responses here. I am trying so hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, but it is just soul-crushing to see some of the behavior here (much of it more troubling than the actual offense that started this whole conversation).
In the interest of making sure that nobody is making an ill-informed decision/comment based on their personal beliefs and/or sexual desires, I would like to just quickly summarize the facts that have been laid out across the two threads regarding Leon/Mostwam. Not opinions, but facts, as stated by Leon, in this thread and the other.
- Leon made a mistake, under severe emotional circumstances, and sexually assaulted one of his models.
- That model reported the crime. It was investigated. There was enough evidence found that he was prosecuted for it.
- In court, Leon was convicted of sexual assaulting one of his models.
- He then hid this conviction from MM/UMD staff, so that he could continuing doing business here, without any consequence or repercussions.
- He hid his conviction from his customer base, so that he could continuing making money off of us without any judgement towards how we see his content. (Although based on the comments in this thread, it looks like that was an unnecessary step, since it's become abundantly clear that the lot of you would be more than happy to purchase content from a convicted sex offender. Congrats!).
- He also hid his conviction from his employees at first, most of which are young models, so that he could continue operating his business as usual, without any consequences related to his conviction for sexually assaulting a model.
- After being able to hide this for over a year, one of the models that works for him found out about it. He then terminated this model's employment. She then approached a member here and notified them about the whole thing.
- That is the ONLY reason we now know about it. He had no intention of telling us. He had no intention of telling MM. He had no intention of telling his models/employees. In ALL of those examples, he was caught.
- After being caught, he stated here that he was innocent, that he did not actually commit any sexual assault, but that he pleaded guilty to it only to avoid his fetish and business from being in the public eye (despite that fact that his fetish and business ARE already public)..
- He then claimed that his decision to plead guilty in court was influenced by fears/pressure related to the 2017 #MeToo movement being in "overdrive" at the time, and in specific, the March 2021 trial for the murder of Sarah Everard (despite it being March of 2022 when he entered said guilty plea).
- He then later admitted that he did in fact commit the sexual assault that he was convicted of, and said that it was a mistake made while seeking solace in a friend during a tumultuous period for him personally. He that he regretted his actions and any harm they caused, and explained that he was under severe emotional distress at the time of the event due to personal trauma.
- He then stated that steps were taken at Mostwam to assure preventing this type of thing from ever happening again. (despite previously claiming that it never actually happened and that he was actually innocent)
- He then later admitted that he was not immediately forthcoming about his conviction (of sexually assaulting a model) with the models that he worked with. (despite previously claiming that there were steps put into place to make sure future sexual assaults wouldn't happen)
- He then admitted that one of the models that has worked with him happily for several years found out about his conviction and voiced concern about it and then was terminated. She has since approached a member here (surely out of spite for being fired) to out him for the crime that he has; claimed innocence to, admitted guilt to, lied about, attempted to justify, and most importantly hid from everyone for over a year.
These are all things that have been confirmed, by Leon, in this thread and the other thread. None of the above is conjecture or opinion or up for debate. How you feel about all of these facts is up you to decide, but there is no debate as to whether the above information is true or not. (and I have been taking screenshots, so it doesn't matter if you go back and edit the posts Leon).
Earlier in the other thread, when I was arguing in support of Leon/Mostwam, (before he completely destroyed the enormous amount of leeway I was giving him due to my own personal perverted interests in him maintaining his business) I said;
His behavior since has been entirely that of "someone of general poor character". I am not concerned with punishing him for what he did in the back of that van. He has already been punished by the courts for that. I AM concerned with his ability to sexually assault other models, and my concern about that started at 0% when this thread began, and has since risen to 100%, solely because of his responses here.
Nobody on here, with the exception of CalGungeFan, is a bigger Mostwam fan than me, as evident by the 450GB's worth of content I've bought from them over the years.
https://umd.net/media/forum_uploads/10_22/screenshot20221023at125739pm_uid_77710_1666560443_10552.png
Put simply, there is no Fucking way any of you jerk off to Leon's material as much as I do, and I would be shocked if there was anyone who wanted to be able to continue jerking off to his material more than me. The fact that I have 180'd on my support of him/Mostwam since this discussion started on Friday should tell you all that you need to know. It is like a heroin addict in the throes of being dope sick arguing in favor of preventing her drug dealer from being able to sling his smack.
And yet, here I am, spending more time trying to help some of you understand that financially supporting a sex offender who hid and lied about his crime is a bad thing.
Like this shit isn't hard you guys. Leon clearly sexually assaulted a model, he clearly hid it from MM and UMD staff, he clearly hid it from us, and he clearly lied about it and tried to justify it in the hopes that he would be able to remain unaffected by any of the above transgressions. And that is just going by the information he has provided.
I don't have a problem with UMD letting Mostwam continue operating here.
I don't have a problem with anybody who continues to buy their content.
But I do have a serious fucking problem with the way some of you have behaved in defense of a convicted sex offender desperately trying to maintain his ability to work with other potential victims while showing no remorse for his actions, and I am honestly disgusted with myself for even being a part of a community that could have such people in it.
I am also proud of all the people who have had the courage to comment here (whether I agree with your comments or not).
But some of you need serious serious help, and it is immensely distressing to share a fetish with you.
In the interest of making sure that nobody is making an ill-informed decision/comment based on their personal beliefs and/or sexual desires, I would like to just quickly summarize the facts that have been laid out across the two threads regarding Leon/Mostwam. Not opinions, but facts, as stated by Leon, in this thread and the other.
- Leon made a mistake, under severe emotional circumstances, and sexually assaulted one of his models.
- That model reported the crime. It was investigated. There was enough evidence found that he was prosecuted for it.
- In court, Leon was convicted of sexual assaulting one of his models.
- He then hid this conviction from MM/UMD staff, so that he could continuing doing business here, without any consequence or repercussions.
- He hid his conviction from his customer base, so that he could continuing making money off of us without any judgement towards how we see his content. (Although based on the comments in this thread, it looks like that was an unnecessary step, since it's become abundantly clear that the lot of you would be more than happy to purchase content from a convicted sex offender. Congrats!).
- He also hid his conviction from his employees at first, most of which are young models, so that he could continue operating his business as usual, without any consequences related to his conviction for sexually assaulting a model.
- After being able to hide this for over a year, one of the models that works for him found out about it. He then terminated this model's employment. She then approached a member here and notified them about the whole thing.
- That is the ONLY reason we now know about it. He had no intention of telling us. He had no intention of telling MM. He had no intention of telling his models/employees. In ALL of those examples, he was caught.
- After being caught, he stated here that he was innocent, that he did not actually commit any sexual assault, but that he pleaded guilty to it only to avoid his fetish and business from being in the public eye (despite that fact that his fetish and business ARE already public)..
- He then claimed that his decision to plead guilty in court was influenced by fears/pressure related to the 2017 #MeToo movement being in "overdrive" at the time, and in specific, the March 2021 trial for the murder of Sarah Everard (despite it being March of 2022 when he entered said guilty plea).
- He then later admitted that he did in fact commit the sexual assault that he was convicted of, and said that it was a mistake made while seeking solace in a friend during a tumultuous period for him personally. He that he regretted his actions and any harm they caused, and explained that he was under severe emotional distress at the time of the event due to personal trauma.
- He then stated that steps were taken at Mostwam to assure preventing this type of thing from ever happening again. (despite previously claiming that it never actually happened and that he was actually innocent)
- He then later admitted that he was not immediately forthcoming about his conviction (of sexually assaulting a model) with the models that he worked with. (despite previously claiming that there were steps put into place to make sure future sexual assaults wouldn't happen)
- He then admitted that one of the models that has worked with him happily for several years found out about his conviction and voiced concern about it and then was terminated. She has since approached a member here (surely out of spite for being fired) to out him for the crime that he has; claimed innocence to, admitted guilt to, lied about, attempted to justify, and most importantly hid from everyone for over a year.
These are all things that have been confirmed, by Leon, in this thread and the other thread. None of the above is conjecture or opinion or up for debate. How you feel about all of these facts is up you to decide, but there is no debate as to whether the above information is true or not. (and I have been taking screenshots, so it doesn't matter if you go back and edit the posts Leon).
Earlier in the other thread, when I was arguing in support of Leon/Mostwam, (before he completely destroyed the enormous amount of leeway I was giving him due to my own personal perverted interests in him maintaining his business) I said;
KelseyRose said: I am more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that the sexual assault itself was an out of character mistake that was made under the influence of poor mental health in a very difficult time, and that you've taken accountability for it (although not necessarily on here at first ) and have apologized to the parties involved and hopefully learned from your mistake. Mistakes, learning, understanding, and forgiveness are a huge part of life for all of us.
And just to be clear, I don't see you as some evil Harvey Weinstein type of abuser or some misogynistic asshole. But the slope from "making an out of character mistake" to "being someone of general poor character" is slippery, and making excuses and evading responsibility for one's actions are usually accelerators towards the wrong side of that scale.
And just to be clear, I don't see you as some evil Harvey Weinstein type of abuser or some misogynistic asshole. But the slope from "making an out of character mistake" to "being someone of general poor character" is slippery, and making excuses and evading responsibility for one's actions are usually accelerators towards the wrong side of that scale.
His behavior since has been entirely that of "someone of general poor character". I am not concerned with punishing him for what he did in the back of that van. He has already been punished by the courts for that. I AM concerned with his ability to sexually assault other models, and my concern about that started at 0% when this thread began, and has since risen to 100%, solely because of his responses here.
Nobody on here, with the exception of CalGungeFan, is a bigger Mostwam fan than me, as evident by the 450GB's worth of content I've bought from them over the years.
https://umd.net/media/forum_uploads/10_22/screenshot20221023at125739pm_uid_77710_1666560443_10552.png
Put simply, there is no Fucking way any of you jerk off to Leon's material as much as I do, and I would be shocked if there was anyone who wanted to be able to continue jerking off to his material more than me. The fact that I have 180'd on my support of him/Mostwam since this discussion started on Friday should tell you all that you need to know. It is like a heroin addict in the throes of being dope sick arguing in favor of preventing her drug dealer from being able to sling his smack.
And yet, here I am, spending more time trying to help some of you understand that financially supporting a sex offender who hid and lied about his crime is a bad thing.
Like this shit isn't hard you guys. Leon clearly sexually assaulted a model, he clearly hid it from MM and UMD staff, he clearly hid it from us, and he clearly lied about it and tried to justify it in the hopes that he would be able to remain unaffected by any of the above transgressions. And that is just going by the information he has provided.
I don't have a problem with UMD letting Mostwam continue operating here.
I don't have a problem with anybody who continues to buy their content.
But I do have a serious fucking problem with the way some of you have behaved in defense of a convicted sex offender desperately trying to maintain his ability to work with other potential victims while showing no remorse for his actions, and I am honestly disgusted with myself for even being a part of a community that could have such people in it.
I am also proud of all the people who have had the courage to comment here (whether I agree with your comments or not).
But some of you need serious serious help, and it is immensely distressing to share a fetish with you.
Just to be clear, you're not talking about me right? Even if you are, I will clarify a few things: Learning the full extent of what Leon did, he absolutely can't be allowed to continue to be on this platform, and I have very little (if any) sympathy for him either, as he shows little to no remorse for his actions that he admitted to.
Penny's post and yours have been great and very insightful, and I sincerely think more should be done to protect models from now on, because stuff like this is unacceptable, and victims especially shouldn't be blamed for what they've had to endure, but should be treated with compassion and respect. I think my idea of at least some of the income made by MostWam going to charities that support victims of sexual assault/rape is a good one, and is something that other producers should consider.
We also can't have anyone be a producer of WAM anymore. At the very least, to operate on this site, producers should have to take a sort of sexual assault/rape awareness exam to make sure they know how to behave appropriately around models and know what to do, and what not to do, to eliminate the existence of predatory producers. When meeting with models, the first thing that should be discussed with the model is their safety and security and to make sure to get clear consent with every model and to clearly inform them exactly what they are going to do and what your intentions with them are. There should be no surprises with them.
Of course a lot more should be done, but I don't think it's a bad idea to try to implement some of these.
We might not get rid of cases like these entirely, but the least we can do is try to minimise it as much as possible, and when it does happen, take the victim seriously and make sure they get all the support they can.
We can make things better if we sincerely try, I believe.
I'm chiming in because I want to express my take on the situation. It's also far beyond the point I should have posted something. For that I apologize.
Whether or not Leon committed the act of sexual assault (to which he pleaded guilty), he was not transparent regarding the case, the verdict, or the changes to his business operations while shooting with models with numerous entities the models, the forums, and MM.
It's up to MM as site owner to determine if this or any other facts about this situation stemming from Leon's actions are against established TOS. I believe he should be transparent regarding information and logic used to determine the result of this process. His decision should include all relevant information to be seen by the forums.
Leon has the right to operate his business outside the forums whether he remains a member or not. It is up to the people of that company to determine their own individual paths forward proprietors, employees, models, etc.
I don't believe there is a place for Leon here going forward. I think he has made choices that have repercussions. One of those repercussions are that I don't trust him and cannot justify financially contributing to his business. I sympathize with others involved in his business that in the grand scheme, their finances will take a hit as a result of someone else's actions. I'm sorry this has happened to you. More importantly I'm sorry there were people out in situations where their own feelings of safety were compromised during a job to earn income. There are many people victimized by this situation, beyond the one who went to the authorities. There's certainly not enough acknowledgment of her situation and the fact that this isn't something people are able to move on from easily or quickly.
There is a line here and precedent needs to be set. This type of situation was skirted away once before. This is why I ask for as close to 100% transparency as possible. I am one of those people who chooses where I spend my money. I don't like supporting those with bad business practices. I don't associate with people (family included) who I deem are harmful towards others.
I don't wish to support Leon in his ventures moving forward. I won't purchase anything from his sites going forward. If MM chooses to allow him to remain on the forums, I won't make purchases from the UMD going forward. That's how I feel and what I believe is right for me. I believe that by not being upfront about any of these events by Leon it was an act of deception to continue business as usual. I don't appreciate his responses. Leon, do better going forward for both yourself and your child.
Anybody reading this can make up their own mind regarding the topic at hand. Just understand I owe you no further explanation or communication regarding these thoughts. Some of these posts have furthered my disdain for communication here. I don't wish to engage further in this thread. Know that prior to responding, if you choose to.
Whether or not Leon committed the act of sexual assault (to which he pleaded guilty), he was not transparent regarding the case, the verdict, or the changes to his business operations while shooting with models with numerous entities the models, the forums, and MM.
It's up to MM as site owner to determine if this or any other facts about this situation stemming from Leon's actions are against established TOS. I believe he should be transparent regarding information and logic used to determine the result of this process. His decision should include all relevant information to be seen by the forums.
Leon has the right to operate his business outside the forums whether he remains a member or not. It is up to the people of that company to determine their own individual paths forward proprietors, employees, models, etc.
I don't believe there is a place for Leon here going forward. I think he has made choices that have repercussions. One of those repercussions are that I don't trust him and cannot justify financially contributing to his business. I sympathize with others involved in his business that in the grand scheme, their finances will take a hit as a result of someone else's actions. I'm sorry this has happened to you. More importantly I'm sorry there were people out in situations where their own feelings of safety were compromised during a job to earn income. There are many people victimized by this situation, beyond the one who went to the authorities. There's certainly not enough acknowledgment of her situation and the fact that this isn't something people are able to move on from easily or quickly.
There is a line here and precedent needs to be set. This type of situation was skirted away once before. This is why I ask for as close to 100% transparency as possible. I am one of those people who chooses where I spend my money. I don't like supporting those with bad business practices. I don't associate with people (family included) who I deem are harmful towards others.
I don't wish to support Leon in his ventures moving forward. I won't purchase anything from his sites going forward. If MM chooses to allow him to remain on the forums, I won't make purchases from the UMD going forward. That's how I feel and what I believe is right for me. I believe that by not being upfront about any of these events by Leon it was an act of deception to continue business as usual. I don't appreciate his responses. Leon, do better going forward for both yourself and your child.
Anybody reading this can make up their own mind regarding the topic at hand. Just understand I owe you no further explanation or communication regarding these thoughts. Some of these posts have furthered my disdain for communication here. I don't wish to engage further in this thread. Know that prior to responding, if you choose to.
We also can't have anyone be a producer of WAM anymore. At the very least, to operate on this site, producers should have to take a sort of sexual assault/rape awareness exam to make sure they know how to behave appropriately around models and know what to do, and what not to do, to eliminate the existence of predatory producers. When meeting with models, the first thing that should be discussed with the model is their safety and security and to make sure to get clear consent with every model and to clearly inform them exactly what they are going to do and what your intentions with them are. There should be no surprises with them.
Classes and awareness exams won't do anything.
You shouldn't need a class or exam to tell you what is and isn't ok.
Someone who is capable of doing bad stuff will just lie on it anyway.
ericachronic said:
Classes and awareness exams won't do anything.
You shouldn't need a class or exam to tell you what is and isn't ok.
Someone who is capable of doing bad stuff will just lie on it anyway.
We also can't have anyone be a producer of WAM anymore. At the very least, to operate on this site, producers should have to take a sort of sexual assault/rape awareness exam to make sure they know how to behave appropriately around models and know what to do, and what not to do, to eliminate the existence of predatory producers. When meeting with models, the first thing that should be discussed with the model is their safety and security and to make sure to get clear consent with every model and to clearly inform them exactly what they are going to do and what your intentions with them are. There should be no surprises with them.
Classes and awareness exams won't do anything.
You shouldn't need a class or exam to tell you what is and isn't ok.
Someone who is capable of doing bad stuff will just lie on it anyway.
It's not going to completely stop everyone, as some will inevitably slip through the cracks, and yes like I said before, it is very sad that some people need to learn how to be decent people, but it's better than having nothing, and even if it manages to stop one predator, that's enough to justify it for me.
Terrible drivers will always exist. But that shouldn't mean we should not have driving tests. At the very least, something is better than nothing.
And just to be clear, I don't see you as some evil Harvey Weinstein type of abuser or some misogynistic asshole. But the slope from "making an out of character mistake" to "being someone of general poor character" is slippery, and making excuses and evading responsibility for one's actions are usually accelerators towards the wrong side of that scale.
His behavior since has been entirely that of "someone of general poor character". I am not concerned with punishing him for what he did in the back of that van. He has already been punished by the courts for that. I AM concerned with his ability to sexually assault other models, and my concern about that started at 0% when this thread began, and has since risen to 100%, solely because of his responses here.
I don't have a problem with UMD letting Mostwam continue operating here.
I would have a problem with Mostwam continuing to operate if Leon has any part of it. We have no power to force him to back out of the company but if he doesn't I don't see me supporting Mostwam's continual membership in this forum. Also, I would prefer any model that would like to not be associated with Mostwam to be allowed to remove their content. No one should be force to be aligned with a business with a history of sexual assault.
I knew this place had some bad elements, but the amount of incel energy and misogyny around here defending criminal behavior is massively pathetic.
KelseyRose said:
Beautiful words Rev. I'm sure you've done enough so that Leon will now sell you the Mostwam catalog at a discount once he's banned. You can feel free to return to your daily posts promoting exploitative Latin American content now and stop sucking up to a convicted sex offender
RevSlymsford said:
I would politely disagree. I don't think it is dangerous in a civilised society to ask that all viewpoints and possibilities are considered before a verdict is reached (whatever the context).
In those posts, I was responding directly to posts saying that there was no plausible reason why Leon would say he was guilty if he wasn't (when there clearly was, and there is copious evidence of this in criminal history) and that the saying that 'there's no smoke without fire' is enough to condemn someone (which I disagree with entirely).
You are right...I wasn't in the police enquiry room and I haven't seen the transcripts...none of us have, and that's entirely my point. (Unless you have, in which case why haven't you shared this proof). I was very careful to make clear I wasn't saying that Leon was innocent / justified or whatever , far from it, ...just that his assertions that he was not guilty were plausible with what we knew at the time. A lot has moved on from when I posted and Leon has shared more with us, so we now know that something did happen, but again none of us know exactly what.
I was at pains to point out that it was 100% right that the model was heard, and had her day in court. And nowhere have I said anything that contradicts that. I have only tried to suggest the principle that, before we rush to judgement, we wait until we have all viewpoints, and carefully weigh everything before us. Especially as, with a guilty plea, the evidence was never tested before a jury.
And the final point I would make is that we now do have Leon's account, and we do know that clearly *something* happened, howsoever occasioned, that was evidentially strong enough for the CPS to charge. Leon pled guilty and was sentenced and punished. Even though the judge said it was 'completely out of character', it is absolutely right that, on the basis he pled guilty, he was punished in accordance with that plea.
The bit I struggle with, is why in society we then feel the need to inflict further punishment on those who have already received their punishment via the courts, and had their lives turned upside down as well. Surely the punishment aspect is what the courts are there for.
Leon's marriage is over. He has to tell all future models he was convicted of a sex offence. He has to tell his child the same thing, at some stage. He has a suspended sentence hanging over him. All of these things may well be the right outcomes for this moment of madness.
But I don't get why we can then feel entitled to say 'no..the courts didn't do enough. We are all without sin here and we cast you out and push you further into a downward spiral'. My feeling is the courts have done their job, Leon has received his punishment and anyone who chooses to boycott him should feel 100% able to do so. But I don't feel it's UMD's job to hand out further 'justice'.
I do note also that we often read cases of those who, through an ''out of character' (in the Judge's words) moment of madness, are double punished..not just by the courts, but then by wider society and can't rebuild their livelihood even after receiving their punishment in the courts. And then when the person is driven to desperate acts, there's much hand-wringing when it is way too late.
Lastly, as others have said, it's absolutely vital we remember the victim too. I really hope and pray that the court case brought her closure and that she is able to move on. Whatever exactly happened, she was left in a position where she felt she needed to put herself through the trauma of a court case in order to seek justice. And that would never be done lightly. I just don't feel the two things are mutually exclusive, that if we have some empathy for Leon and feel that we should leave the retributive justice to the legal system, it means we are pro sex offenders. To me that's a massive misrepresentation, intentional otherwise.
Lastly, people have talked about those with vested interests. I am a direct business rival of Leon. It would probably benefit me financially if he was kicked off UMD. But I am sticking my head above the parapet because I am all for trying to find the nuance in an increasingly black and white world.
And if all of the above means "I have lost a lot of credibility" as you write, then I will have to pay that price.
VAVAVIE said:
I think given you are a producer who has to employ female models you are sending out a slightly dangerous message here. For the CPS to authorise a court case the evidence has be pretty strong. I'm guessing you haven't obtained the transcript and I'm guessing you haven't worked out that despite confessing to copping a feel on a young girls naked breasts on the night it happened and then saying he only pleaded guilty 10 minutes before you are saying it 'might' not have happened. Then for over two years this man has said nothing to this forum and has continued to make large amounts of money from his sites? Are you sure you think that store and person should remain? Sorry but I think you've just lost a lot of credibility.
I think given you are a producer who has to employ female models you are sending out a slightly dangerous message here. For the CPS to authorise a court case the evidence has be pretty strong. I'm guessing you haven't obtained the transcript and I'm guessing you haven't worked out that despite confessing to copping a feel on a young girls naked breasts on the night it happened and then saying he only pleaded guilty 10 minutes before you are saying it 'might' not have happened. Then for over two years this man has said nothing to this forum and has continued to make large amounts of money from his sites? Are you sure you think that store and person should remain? Sorry but I think you've just lost a lot of credibility.
I would politely disagree. I don't think it is dangerous in a civilised society to ask that all viewpoints and possibilities are considered before a verdict is reached (whatever the context).
In those posts, I was responding directly to posts saying that there was no plausible reason why Leon would say he was guilty if he wasn't (when there clearly was, and there is copious evidence of this in criminal history) and that the saying that 'there's no smoke without fire' is enough to condemn someone (which I disagree with entirely).
You are right...I wasn't in the police enquiry room and I haven't seen the transcripts...none of us have, and that's entirely my point. (Unless you have, in which case why haven't you shared this proof). I was very careful to make clear I wasn't saying that Leon was innocent / justified or whatever , far from it, ...just that his assertions that he was not guilty were plausible with what we knew at the time. A lot has moved on from when I posted and Leon has shared more with us, so we now know that something did happen, but again none of us know exactly what.
I was at pains to point out that it was 100% right that the model was heard, and had her day in court. And nowhere have I said anything that contradicts that. I have only tried to suggest the principle that, before we rush to judgement, we wait until we have all viewpoints, and carefully weigh everything before us. Especially as, with a guilty plea, the evidence was never tested before a jury.
And the final point I would make is that we now do have Leon's account, and we do know that clearly *something* happened, howsoever occasioned, that was evidentially strong enough for the CPS to charge. Leon pled guilty and was sentenced and punished. Even though the judge said it was 'completely out of character', it is absolutely right that, on the basis he pled guilty, he was punished in accordance with that plea.
The bit I struggle with, is why in society we then feel the need to inflict further punishment on those who have already received their punishment via the courts, and had their lives turned upside down as well. Surely the punishment aspect is what the courts are there for.
Leon's marriage is over. He has to tell all future models he was convicted of a sex offence. He has to tell his child the same thing, at some stage. He has a suspended sentence hanging over him. All of these things may well be the right outcomes for this moment of madness.
But I don't get why we can then feel entitled to say 'no..the courts didn't do enough. We are all without sin here and we cast you out and push you further into a downward spiral'. My feeling is the courts have done their job, Leon has received his punishment and anyone who chooses to boycott him should feel 100% able to do so. But I don't feel it's UMD's job to hand out further 'justice'.
I do note also that we often read cases of those who, through an ''out of character' (in the Judge's words) moment of madness, are double punished..not just by the courts, but then by wider society and can't rebuild their livelihood even after receiving their punishment in the courts. And then when the person is driven to desperate acts, there's much hand-wringing when it is way too late.
Lastly, as others have said, it's absolutely vital we remember the victim too. I really hope and pray that the court case brought her closure and that she is able to move on. Whatever exactly happened, she was left in a position where she felt she needed to put herself through the trauma of a court case in order to seek justice. And that would never be done lightly. I just don't feel the two things are mutually exclusive, that if we have some empathy for Leon and feel that we should leave the retributive justice to the legal system, it means we are pro sex offenders. To me that's a massive misrepresentation, intentional otherwise.
Lastly, people have talked about those with vested interests. I am a direct business rival of Leon. It would probably benefit me financially if he was kicked off UMD. But I am sticking my head above the parapet because I am all for trying to find the nuance in an increasingly black and white world.
And if all of the above means "I have lost a lot of credibility" as you write, then I will have to pay that price.
Beautiful words Rev. I'm sure you've done enough so that Leon will now sell you the Mostwam catalog at a discount once he's banned. You can feel free to return to your daily posts promoting exploitative Latin American content now and stop sucking up to a convicted sex offender
Kelsey,
These guys just don't see how blindingly obvious their denial of reality is.
It's embarrassing.
niald88 said: Purely spitballing here, and maybe it's pure fantasy, but if there was a way for the UMD community to raise the money to take over mostwam, and then continue to fund it, maybe through some sort of share scheme, would that be satisfactory to people on both sides of the debate? Leon's no longer in charge, the site then belongs to the community, and mostwam carries on?
Like I say, could be talking utter shit, and frankly wouldn't know where to start working out all the legal and financial details, but just throwing it out there.
Ps. I too am very disappointed in my fellow man reading some of the comments on here. Some people need to take a long hard look in the mirror at themselves.
Like I say, could be talking utter shit, and frankly wouldn't know where to start working out all the legal and financial details, but just throwing it out there.
Ps. I too am very disappointed in my fellow man reading some of the comments on here. Some people need to take a long hard look in the mirror at themselves.
What you are describing is what Rev does.
bizopp713 said:
I would have a problem with Mostwam continuing to operate if Leon has any part of it. We have no power to force him to back out of the company but if he doesn't I don't see me supporting Mostwam's continual membership in this forum. Also, I would prefer any model that would like to not be associated with Mostwam to be allowed to remove their content. No one should be force to be aligned with a business with a history of sexual assault.
I'm personally not a fan now of MostWam being a part of UMD, especially with Leon a part of it currently too. I have made my choice and won't be purchasing from them - that's my choice to make and others rightfully will make their own.
No matter on the way people spin, give their opinion on justice systems etc the fact remains - there is currently a sex offender within this thread, let alone on the site at this moment in time. Kelsey's most recent post was a good one to look for anyone wanting to look at the facts without the chatter around it.
But just going to repeat a point I made earlier - they have two subscription sites outside of UMD. At least a couple of the models also have non-Wam, off of UMD content they do for themselves I believe (So possibly more?) And finally, other producers with fantastic models and similar, if not higher budgeted videos operate perfectly well and either do not associate themsevles, or rarely do, with UMD.
I'm not saying they wouldn't take a hit, but I doubt they would go under or into the ground - this thread alone shows plentry willing to support them. Each to their own, of course, but why does it have to be here if they can still make money elsewhere?
But, as I say I have made my decision personally - just weighing in as someone who never posts really (first ever post being my earlier one!).
Chair, Button, Gunk Dunk...but who's the dunkee?
RevSlymsford said:
I would politely disagree. I don't think it is dangerous in a civilised society to ask that all viewpoints and possibilities are considered before a verdict is reached (whatever the context).
In those posts, I was responding directly to posts saying that there was no plausible reason why Leon would say he was guilty if he wasn't (when there clearly was, and there is copious evidence of this in criminal history) and that the saying that 'there's no smoke without fire' is enough to condemn someone (which I disagree with entirely).
You are right...I wasn't in the police enquiry room and I haven't seen the transcripts...none of us have, and that's entirely my point. (Unless you have, in which case why haven't you shared this proof). I was very careful to make clear I wasn't saying that Leon was innocent / justified or whatever , far from it, ...just that his assertions that he was not guilty were plausible with what we knew at the time. A lot has moved on from when I posted and Leon has shared more with us, so we now know that something did happen, but again none of us know exactly what.
I was at pains to point out that it was 100% right that the model was heard, and had her day in court. And nowhere have I said anything that contradicts that. I have only tried to suggest the principle that, before we rush to judgement, we wait until we have all viewpoints, and carefully weigh everything before us. Especially as, with a guilty plea, the evidence was never tested before a jury.
And the final point I would make is that we now do have Leon's account, and we do know that clearly *something* happened, howsoever occasioned, that was evidentially strong enough for the CPS to charge. Leon pled guilty and was sentenced and punished. Even though the judge said it was 'completely out of character', it is absolutely right that, on the basis he pled guilty, he was punished in accordance with that plea.
The bit I struggle with, is why in society we then feel the need to inflict further punishment on those who have already received their punishment via the courts, and had their lives turned upside down as well. Surely the punishment aspect is what the courts are there for.
Leon's marriage is over. He has to tell all future models he was convicted of a sex offence. He has to tell his child the same thing, at some stage. He has a suspended sentence hanging over him. All of these things may well be the right outcomes for this moment of madness.
But I don't get why we can then feel entitled to say 'no..the courts didn't do enough. We are all without sin here and we cast you out and push you further into a downward spiral'. My feeling is the courts have done their job, Leon has received his punishment and anyone who chooses to boycott him should feel 100% able to do so. But I don't feel it's UMD's job to hand out further 'justice'.
I do note also that we often read cases of those who, through an ''out of character' (in the Judge's words) moment of madness, are double punished..not just by the courts, but then by wider society and can't rebuild their livelihood even after receiving their punishment in the courts. And then when the person is driven to desperate acts, there's much hand-wringing when it is way too late.
Lastly, as others have said, it's absolutely vital we remember the victim too. I really hope and pray that the court case brought her closure and that she is able to move on. Whatever exactly happened, she was left in a position where she felt she needed to put herself through the trauma of a court case in order to seek justice. And that would never be done lightly. I just don't feel the two things are mutually exclusive, that if we have some empathy for Leon and feel that we should leave the retributive justice to the legal system, it means we are pro sex offenders. To me that's a massive misrepresentation, intentional otherwise.
Lastly, people have talked about those with vested interests. I am a direct business rival of Leon. It would probably benefit me financially if he was kicked off UMD. But I am sticking my head above the parapet because I am all for trying to find the nuance in an increasingly black and white world.
And if all of the above means "I have lost a lot of credibility" as you write, then I will have to pay that price.
VAVAVIE said:
I think given you are a producer who has to employ female models you are sending out a slightly dangerous message here. For the CPS to authorise a court case the evidence has be pretty strong. I'm guessing you haven't obtained the transcript and I'm guessing you haven't worked out that despite confessing to copping a feel on a young girls naked breasts on the night it happened and then saying he only pleaded guilty 10 minutes before you are saying it 'might' not have happened. Then for over two years this man has said nothing to this forum and has continued to make large amounts of money from his sites? Are you sure you think that store and person should remain? Sorry but I think you've just lost a lot of credibility.
RevSlymsford said:
I think in the interests of fairness we could also ask "If Leon *had* done it, why plead guilty?". Given that this crime, like so many sexual based crimes, is 'he said / she said', and we keep hearing of how tough it is to meet the burden of proof in such cases, it would surely have been difficult for the prosecution to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. So why not roll the dice if you are guilty.
But if you were innocent and didn't want to take it to court for all the reasons Leon actually stated, you might plead guilty. Moreover in the UK legal system, by pleading guilty, you get a lesser sentence which means a jail sentence is much less likely. Another plus for pleading guilty.
Therefore to me it's quite *plausible* that someone might think pleading guilty was the lesser of two evils, especially if innocent and terrified of ending up in jail. I'm not saying that's what happened..I have no idea..but it certainly seems plausible. It seems possible.
The model has quite rightly been heard and the justice system has pronounced, as it should. Leon will have to live with the consequences of his guilty verdict, whether deserved or not, for a long time But *we* can't know what actually happened..we haven't seen the evidence (beyond the testimonies of both parties) and the evidence hasn't been tested by a court (as Leon pled guilty).
Only Leon and the model will know what actually happened. Leon has received his punishment from the courts (which will stay with him for years..deservedly if guilty of course, but not if he is actually innocent) and his marriage is over... so I don't see any positive in then banning Mostwam from UMD as some are saying.
I am always wary of pile-ons in these situations when none of us on the sidelines can actually know the truth. For me I always think 'there but for the grace of God go I'
Wamchantelle said:
Sorry but just to clarify this went to court this year it's only just come to light
With regards to people pleading guilty yes a lot of people do for less offences like shoplifting and things like that but this is a serious case and if he was innocent he should've thought it from the start regardless of who or what evidence were brought into it.
It's all very well blaming his legal team and everyone else but isn't that what every person does once they've been found guilty, there are prisoners up and down the land on life terms that are all blaming the lawyers and solicitors for them being in prison even though the evidence was states against them if you're innocent you fight it had you've done that and got a not guilty this conversation wouldn't be being heard now personally and this is not from a producer point of view but as a woman and a law-abiding citizen I believe he should no longer be affiliated with this site in any way
CalGungeFan said: For me, I just go back to this
I think an important part of this is the fact that this happened a long while ago and mostwam and Leon are still producing content and filming with girls that are friends of the victim and know both individuals a lot more than we do... and they are still happy to work with him, they are still happy to work for a fantastic company and eye for one think that carries a lot of weight...
whether I believe or not I don't know and I probably won't know, but I do believe in the people around mostwam and work with him and if they are happy to continue to support him which they are by looking at the fact that they are still filming, still having fun creating content... then I'm happy to support mostwam as well
Why would all the girls still be working at mostwam, as they all know each other... they're all friends... and you can see in the recent content that has filmed in the last few months that the girls are still very much enjoying everything about working there.
for me I think that's a significant point
I think an important part of this is the fact that this happened a long while ago and mostwam and Leon are still producing content and filming with girls that are friends of the victim and know both individuals a lot more than we do... and they are still happy to work with him, they are still happy to work for a fantastic company and eye for one think that carries a lot of weight...
whether I believe or not I don't know and I probably won't know, but I do believe in the people around mostwam and work with him and if they are happy to continue to support him which they are by looking at the fact that they are still filming, still having fun creating content... then I'm happy to support mostwam as well
Why would all the girls still be working at mostwam, as they all know each other... they're all friends... and you can see in the recent content that has filmed in the last few months that the girls are still very much enjoying everything about working there.
for me I think that's a significant point
Sorry but just to clarify this went to court this year it's only just come to light
With regards to people pleading guilty yes a lot of people do for less offences like shoplifting and things like that but this is a serious case and if he was innocent he should've thought it from the start regardless of who or what evidence were brought into it.
It's all very well blaming his legal team and everyone else but isn't that what every person does once they've been found guilty, there are prisoners up and down the land on life terms that are all blaming the lawyers and solicitors for them being in prison even though the evidence was states against them if you're innocent you fight it had you've done that and got a not guilty this conversation wouldn't be being heard now personally and this is not from a producer point of view but as a woman and a law-abiding citizen I believe he should no longer be affiliated with this site in any way
I think in the interests of fairness we could also ask "If Leon *had* done it, why plead guilty?". Given that this crime, like so many sexual based crimes, is 'he said / she said', and we keep hearing of how tough it is to meet the burden of proof in such cases, it would surely have been difficult for the prosecution to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. So why not roll the dice if you are guilty.
But if you were innocent and didn't want to take it to court for all the reasons Leon actually stated, you might plead guilty. Moreover in the UK legal system, by pleading guilty, you get a lesser sentence which means a jail sentence is much less likely. Another plus for pleading guilty.
Therefore to me it's quite *plausible* that someone might think pleading guilty was the lesser of two evils, especially if innocent and terrified of ending up in jail. I'm not saying that's what happened..I have no idea..but it certainly seems plausible. It seems possible.
The model has quite rightly been heard and the justice system has pronounced, as it should. Leon will have to live with the consequences of his guilty verdict, whether deserved or not, for a long time But *we* can't know what actually happened..we haven't seen the evidence (beyond the testimonies of both parties) and the evidence hasn't been tested by a court (as Leon pled guilty).
Only Leon and the model will know what actually happened. Leon has received his punishment from the courts (which will stay with him for years..deservedly if guilty of course, but not if he is actually innocent) and his marriage is over... so I don't see any positive in then banning Mostwam from UMD as some are saying.
I am always wary of pile-ons in these situations when none of us on the sidelines can actually know the truth. For me I always think 'there but for the grace of God go I'
I think given you are a producer who has to employ female models you are sending out a slightly dangerous message here. For the CPS to authorise a court case the evidence has be pretty strong. I'm guessing you haven't obtained the transcript and I'm guessing you haven't worked out that despite confessing to copping a feel on a young girls naked breasts on the night it happened and then saying he only pleaded guilty 10 minutes before you are saying it 'might' not have happened. Then for over two years this man has said nothing to this forum and has continued to make large amounts of money from his sites? Are you sure you think that store and person should remain? Sorry but I think you've just lost a lot of credibility.
I would politely disagree. I don't think it is dangerous in a civilised society to ask that all viewpoints and possibilities are considered before a verdict is reached (whatever the context).
In those posts, I was responding directly to posts saying that there was no plausible reason why Leon would say he was guilty if he wasn't (when there clearly was, and there is copious evidence of this in criminal history) and that the saying that 'there's no smoke without fire' is enough to condemn someone (which I disagree with entirely).
You are right...I wasn't in the police enquiry room and I haven't seen the transcripts...none of us have, and that's entirely my point. (Unless you have, in which case why haven't you shared this proof). I was very careful to make clear I wasn't saying that Leon was innocent / justified or whatever , far from it, ...just that his assertions that he was not guilty were plausible with what we knew at the time. A lot has moved on from when I posted and Leon has shared more with us, so we now know that something did happen, but again none of us know exactly what.
I was at pains to point out that it was 100% right that the model was heard, and had her day in court. And nowhere have I said anything that contradicts that. I have only tried to suggest the principle that, before we rush to judgement, we wait until we have all viewpoints, and carefully weigh everything before us. Especially as, with a guilty plea, the evidence was never tested before a jury.
And the final point I would make is that we now do have Leon's account, and we do know that clearly *something* happened, howsoever occasioned, that was evidentially strong enough for the CPS to charge. Leon pled guilty and was sentenced and punished. Even though the judge said it was 'completely out of character', it is absolutely right that, on the basis he pled guilty, he was punished in accordance with that plea.
The bit I struggle with, is why in society we then feel the need to inflict further punishment on those who have already received their punishment via the courts, and had their lives turned upside down as well. Surely the punishment aspect is what the courts are there for.
Leon's marriage is over. He has to tell all future models he was convicted of a sex offence. He has to tell his child the same thing, at some stage. He has a suspended sentence hanging over him. All of these things may well be the right outcomes for this moment of madness.
But I don't get why we can then feel entitled to say 'no..the courts didn't do enough. We are all without sin here and we cast you out and push you further into a downward spiral'. My feeling is the courts have done their job, Leon has received his punishment and anyone who chooses to boycott him should feel 100% able to do so. But I don't feel it's UMD's job to hand out further 'justice'.
I do note also that we often read cases of those who, through an ''out of character' (in the Judge's words) moment of madness, are double punished..not just by the courts, but then by wider society and can't rebuild their livelihood even after receiving their punishment in the courts. And then when the person is driven to desperate acts, there's much hand-wringing when it is way too late.
Lastly, as others have said, it's absolutely vital we remember the victim too. I really hope and pray that the court case brought her closure and that she is able to move on. Whatever exactly happened, she was left in a position where she felt she needed to put herself through the trauma of a court case in order to seek justice. And that would never be done lightly. I just don't feel the two things are mutually exclusive, that if we have some empathy for Leon and feel that we should leave the retributive justice to the legal system, it means we are pro sex offenders. To me that's a massive misrepresentation, intentional otherwise.
Lastly, people have talked about those with vested interests. I am a direct business rival of Leon. It would probably benefit me financially if he was kicked off UMD. But I am sticking my head above the parapet because I am all for trying to find the nuance in an increasingly black and white world.
And if all of the above means "I have lost a lot of credibility" as you write, then I will have to pay that price.
Reverend
You'll only lose credibility with anyone with a moral compass and a brain so you'll still get plenty of customers from here.
Have you seriously just asked me why I haven't posted a UK Crown Court transcript with details of how a girl was affected by her ordeal on a porn site?
Contact Bristol Crown Court if you want one.
Your words about the actual victim carry no weight when in the same post you haven't got the brains or professionalism to realise a business run by a sex offender and two complicit people on this site should be removed immediately. It's not about 'further punishment'. It's about the credibility of UMD allowing store owners to operate whilst having a sex offender owning it and his members of staff covering up for him on here.
MessySoMessy said:
bizopp713 said:
I would have a problem with Mostwam continuing to operate if Leon has any part of it. We have no power to force him to back out of the company but if he doesn't I don't see me supporting Mostwam's continual membership in this forum. Also, I would prefer any model that would like to not be associated with Mostwam to be allowed to remove their content. No one should be force to be aligned with a business with a history of sexual assault.
I'm personally not a fan now of MostWam being a part of UMD, especially with Leon a part of it currently too. I have made my choice and won't be purchasing from them - that's my choice to make and others rightfully will make their own.
No matter on the way people spin, give their opinion on justice systems etc the fact remains - there is currently a sex offender within this thread, let alone on the site at this moment in time. Kelsey's most recent post was a good one to look for anyone wanting to look at the facts without the chatter around it.
But just going to repeat a point I made earlier - they have two subscription sites outside of UMD. At least a couple of the models also have non-Wam, off of UMD content they do for themselves I believe (So possibly more?) And finally, other producers with fantastic models and similar, if not higher budgeted videos operate perfectly well and either do not associate themsevles, or rarely do, with UMD.
I'm not saying they wouldn't take a hit, but I doubt they would go under or into the ground - this thread alone shows plentry willing to support them. Each to their own, of course, but why does it have to be here if they can still make money elsewhere?
But, as I say I have made my decision personally - just weighing in as someone who never posts really (first ever post being my earlier one!).
You make a sensible point. As fair as THIS forum is concerned every trace of Leon and all his companies should be removed without trace as this is the forum that has been deceived by Mostwam staff and its sex offending owner. Nobody on here is saying anything about them having a business elsewhere although no free advertising for those sites should be given on here.
None of this is about getting our pitch forks out to go all vigilante... Its about having a community that is safe for all members, and we can be proud to be a part of.
It also highlights just how unhealthy it is to have so much the WAM ecosystem in just one website. Everyone is equating a a ban from here to Mostwam being shut down. They can sell elsewhere if anyone is buying. They don't need crowdfunding. Its not tragic. Its a business.
It also highlights just how unhealthy it is to have so much the WAM ecosystem in just one website. Everyone is equating a a ban from here to Mostwam being shut down. They can sell elsewhere if anyone is buying. They don't need crowdfunding. Its not tragic. Its a business.
VAVAVIE said:
bizopp713 said:
I would have a problem with Mostwam continuing to operate if Leon has any part of it. We have no power to force him to back out of the company but if he doesn't I don't see me supporting Mostwam's continual membership in this forum. Also, I would prefer any model that would like to not be associated with Mostwam to be allowed to remove their content. No one should be force to be aligned with a business with a history of sexual assault.
MessySoMessy said:
bizopp713 said:
I would have a problem with Mostwam continuing to operate if Leon has any part of it. We have no power to force him to back out of the company but if he doesn't I don't see me supporting Mostwam's continual membership in this forum. Also, I would prefer any model that would like to not be associated with Mostwam to be allowed to remove their content. No one should be force to be aligned with a business with a history of sexual assault.
I'm personally not a fan now of MostWam being a part of UMD, especially with Leon a part of it currently too. I have made my choice and won't be purchasing from them - that's my choice to make and others rightfully will make their own.
No matter on the way people spin, give their opinion on justice systems etc the fact remains - there is currently a sex offender within this thread, let alone on the site at this moment in time. Kelsey's most recent post was a good one to look for anyone wanting to look at the facts without the chatter around it.
But just going to repeat a point I made earlier - they have two subscription sites outside of UMD. At least a couple of the models also have non-Wam, off of UMD content they do for themselves I believe (So possibly more?) And finally, other producers with fantastic models and similar, if not higher budgeted videos operate perfectly well and either do not associate themsevles, or rarely do, with UMD.
I'm not saying they wouldn't take a hit, but I doubt they would go under or into the ground - this thread alone shows plentry willing to support them. Each to their own, of course, but why does it have to be here if they can still make money elsewhere?
But, as I say I have made my decision personally - just weighing in as someone who never posts really (first ever post being my earlier one!).
You make a sensible point. As fair as THIS forum is concerned every trace of Leon and all his companies should be removed without trace as this is the forum that has been deceived by Mostwam staff and its sex offending owner. Nobody on here is saying anything about them having a business elsewhere although no free advertising for those sites should be given on here.
I'm curious to hear what you have to about Kelsey, who said herself that she has no problem with MostWam continuing (as long as Leon is not a part of it of course).
VAVAVIE said:
bizopp713 said:
I would have a problem with Mostwam continuing to operate if Leon has any part of it. We have no power to force him to back out of the company but if he doesn't I don't see me supporting Mostwam's continual membership in this forum. Also, I would prefer any model that would like to not be associated with Mostwam to be allowed to remove their content. No one should be force to be aligned with a business with a history of sexual assault.
MessySoMessy said:
bizopp713 said:
I would have a problem with Mostwam continuing to operate if Leon has any part of it. We have no power to force him to back out of the company but if he doesn't I don't see me supporting Mostwam's continual membership in this forum. Also, I would prefer any model that would like to not be associated with Mostwam to be allowed to remove their content. No one should be force to be aligned with a business with a history of sexual assault.
I'm personally not a fan now of MostWam being a part of UMD, especially with Leon a part of it currently too. I have made my choice and won't be purchasing from them - that's my choice to make and others rightfully will make their own.
No matter on the way people spin, give their opinion on justice systems etc the fact remains - there is currently a sex offender within this thread, let alone on the site at this moment in time. Kelsey's most recent post was a good one to look for anyone wanting to look at the facts without the chatter around it.
But just going to repeat a point I made earlier - they have two subscription sites outside of UMD. At least a couple of the models also have non-Wam, off of UMD content they do for themselves I believe (So possibly more?) And finally, other producers with fantastic models and similar, if not higher budgeted videos operate perfectly well and either do not associate themsevles, or rarely do, with UMD.
I'm not saying they wouldn't take a hit, but I doubt they would go under or into the ground - this thread alone shows plentry willing to support them. Each to their own, of course, but why does it have to be here if they can still make money elsewhere?
But, as I say I have made my decision personally - just weighing in as someone who never posts really (first ever post being my earlier one!).
You make a sensible point. As fair as THIS forum is concerned every trace of Leon and all his companies should be removed without trace as this is the forum that has been deceived by Mostwam staff and its sex offending owner. Nobody on here is saying anything about them having a business elsewhere although no free advertising for those sites should be given on here.
I am not going to fault Lisa or Al or any of the other employees Mostwam has for the actions of one individual. Donald Sterling was a horrible person but we don't hold it against the Clippers as a whole. Harvey Weinstein was awful and we don't hold it against Miramax. I do admit someone there could have come forward sooner but as Al said he put measures in place and I trust him as I have dealt with Al before but Leon can't remain part of it.
messyface1994 said:
You aren't to win the argument that people who like MostWam and it's content and want it to continue are by default ok with Leon still being on the platform. Most people here, if not all, have come to the realisation that Leon needs to go. He's a convicted sex offender, and can't stay on the platform, and more serious and sincere efforts should be made to protect all the models that star in wam videos from now on, and to to make sure victims are taken seriously and have their situations dealt with efficiently.
Someone else pointed out that it's not that MostWam in general is being cancelled, but that we are figuring out how to move on, presumably without Leon. Others have also pointed out that MostWam should be able to continue if Leon steps down and hands the ownership to it to someone more responsible, or have a new site entirely, and would also make sense as a punishment for him, although that wouldn't be nearly enough to justify forgiveness, but it would be a start.
As I've said before, the money generated by MostWam that would have gone into Leons pocket, can be sent to various charities that support victims of sexual assault and rape, making MostWam a genuine force for good, as well as going into potential resources that can help safeguard models from predatory producers (hopefully, by making sure they don't exist in the first place by having some sort of sexual assault awareness course that people have to pass in order to become a producer).
Your tone and attitude isn't one of someone who wants to help. It's one of someone that wants to destroy something at any cost, and that's not being helpful. Instead of yelling at each other, let's actually do something productive and helpful for the people you claim to care so much about.
Also, when did Al become a bad guy here?
VAVAVIE said: I'm shocked at some of the male responses on here. I'm amazed any female would like to remain on this Forum. We all like sexual activity but very sinister opinions are flowing from customers and some producers alike. I suggest everybody reads the whole thread before choosing who to spend money with.
Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain
1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when Cassie left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place
This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.
Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is Cassie and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, Cassie or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.
Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.
How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.
Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain
1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when Cassie left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place
This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.
Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is Cassie and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, Cassie or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.
Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.
How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.
You aren't to win the argument that people who like MostWam and it's content and want it to continue are by default ok with Leon still being on the platform. Most people here, if not all, have come to the realisation that Leon needs to go. He's a convicted sex offender, and can't stay on the platform, and more serious and sincere efforts should be made to protect all the models that star in wam videos from now on, and to to make sure victims are taken seriously and have their situations dealt with efficiently.
Someone else pointed out that it's not that MostWam in general is being cancelled, but that we are figuring out how to move on, presumably without Leon. Others have also pointed out that MostWam should be able to continue if Leon steps down and hands the ownership to it to someone more responsible, or have a new site entirely, and would also make sense as a punishment for him, although that wouldn't be nearly enough to justify forgiveness, but it would be a start.
As I've said before, the money generated by MostWam that would have gone into Leons pocket, can be sent to various charities that support victims of sexual assault and rape, making MostWam a genuine force for good, as well as going into potential resources that can help safeguard models from predatory producers (hopefully, by making sure they don't exist in the first place by having some sort of sexual assault awareness course that people have to pass in order to become a producer).
Your tone and attitude isn't one of someone who wants to help. It's one of someone that wants to destroy something at any cost, and that's not being helpful. Instead of yelling at each other, let's actually do something productive and helpful for the people you claim to care so much about.
Also, when did Al become a bad guy here?
Al has posted himself to confirm he has known all the time about the sexual assault and the conviction.
Leon has stated that Lisa has known all along too.
They have all misled this Forum and the business has taken thousands of pounds from members on here.
Do you not understand that is unacceptable and from here all trace should be removed?
I personally don't want to help these people, they seem to be vile in supporting what has happened.
Nobody is stopping them carrying on elsewhere. They can do whatever they want in whatever legal way they want.
If YOU want to persuade Leon,Lisa and Al to donate around £130k of profit to various charities plus pay back their wages to charity then I wish you all the luck in the world but do expect to have a face covered in piss as you'll be pissing in the wind.
I hope that shows you there is no ill intent as I don't know these people but I can see the bleeding obvious that if UMD is a professional business that respects its customers and producers then their collective actions must lead to their complete removal from UMD.
So I've previously purchased from MostWam (a lot) and I cancelled subscriptions to their sites today. Without this thread I'd still have been funding Leon's enterprises so thank you VAVAVIE for shining a light on this.
Sex is the whole point of this site and sexual assault should be a red line.
Particularly when a person has been found guilty through a legal system in which it is notoriously difficult to secure a conviction. In case there are any West Coast Americans here who want to disagree (I'm thinking of one in particular from earlier in the thread), try looking up UK rape conviction rates.
Of course rape is a particularly heinous sexual offence, but we're talking a 70% fall in prosecutions in the 4 years to 2021. We're talking 1 in 60 rape cases actually reaching court.
A far cry from 'woke' mob justice and IMHO a UK conviction is absolutely a basis for immediate disassociation by a supposedly respectable and welcoming site. /rant
Edit: Just to 100% clarify that while I cite rape stats I'm well aware that's not the crime at issue. Still think the red line should be drawn at sexual assault of any kind though.
Sex is the whole point of this site and sexual assault should be a red line.
Particularly when a person has been found guilty through a legal system in which it is notoriously difficult to secure a conviction. In case there are any West Coast Americans here who want to disagree (I'm thinking of one in particular from earlier in the thread), try looking up UK rape conviction rates.
Of course rape is a particularly heinous sexual offence, but we're talking a 70% fall in prosecutions in the 4 years to 2021. We're talking 1 in 60 rape cases actually reaching court.
A far cry from 'woke' mob justice and IMHO a UK conviction is absolutely a basis for immediate disassociation by a supposedly respectable and welcoming site. /rant
Edit: Just to 100% clarify that while I cite rape stats I'm well aware that's not the crime at issue. Still think the red line should be drawn at sexual assault of any kind though.
bizopp713 said:
I'm personally not a fan now of MostWam being a part of UMD, especially with Leon a part of it currently too. I have made my choice and won't be purchasing from them - that's my choice to make and others rightfully will make their own.
No matter on the way people spin, give their opinion on justice systems etc the fact remains - there is currently a sex offender within this thread, let alone on the site at this moment in time. Kelsey's most recent post was a good one to look for anyone wanting to look at the facts without the chatter around it.
But just going to repeat a point I made earlier - they have two subscription sites outside of UMD. At least a couple of the models also have non-Wam, off of UMD content they do for themselves I believe (So possibly more?) And finally, other producers with fantastic models and similar, if not higher budgeted videos operate perfectly well and either do not associate themsevles, or rarely do, with UMD.
I'm not saying they wouldn't take a hit, but I doubt they would go under or into the ground - this thread alone shows plentry willing to support them. Each to their own, of course, but why does it have to be here if they can still make money elsewhere?
But, as I say I have made my decision personally - just weighing in as someone who never posts really (first ever post being my earlier one!).
VAVAVIE said:
bizopp713 said:
I would have a problem with Mostwam continuing to operate if Leon has any part of it. We have no power to force him to back out of the company but if he doesn't I don't see me supporting Mostwam's continual membership in this forum. Also, I would prefer any model that would like to not be associated with Mostwam to be allowed to remove their content. No one should be force to be aligned with a business with a history of sexual assault.
MessySoMessy said:
bizopp713 said:
I would have a problem with Mostwam continuing to operate if Leon has any part of it. We have no power to force him to back out of the company but if he doesn't I don't see me supporting Mostwam's continual membership in this forum. Also, I would prefer any model that would like to not be associated with Mostwam to be allowed to remove their content. No one should be force to be aligned with a business with a history of sexual assault.
I'm personally not a fan now of MostWam being a part of UMD, especially with Leon a part of it currently too. I have made my choice and won't be purchasing from them - that's my choice to make and others rightfully will make their own.
No matter on the way people spin, give their opinion on justice systems etc the fact remains - there is currently a sex offender within this thread, let alone on the site at this moment in time. Kelsey's most recent post was a good one to look for anyone wanting to look at the facts without the chatter around it.
But just going to repeat a point I made earlier - they have two subscription sites outside of UMD. At least a couple of the models also have non-Wam, off of UMD content they do for themselves I believe (So possibly more?) And finally, other producers with fantastic models and similar, if not higher budgeted videos operate perfectly well and either do not associate themsevles, or rarely do, with UMD.
I'm not saying they wouldn't take a hit, but I doubt they would go under or into the ground - this thread alone shows plentry willing to support them. Each to their own, of course, but why does it have to be here if they can still make money elsewhere?
But, as I say I have made my decision personally - just weighing in as someone who never posts really (first ever post being my earlier one!).
You make a sensible point. As fair as THIS forum is concerned every trace of Leon and all his companies should be removed without trace as this is the forum that has been deceived by Mostwam staff and its sex offending owner. Nobody on here is saying anything about them having a business elsewhere although no free advertising for those sites should be given on here.
I am not going to fault Lisa or Al or any of the other employees Mostwam has for the actions of one individual. Donald Sterling was a horrible person but we don't hold it against the Clippers as a whole. Harvey Weinstein was awful and we don't hold it against Miramax. I do admit someone there could have come forward sooner but as Al said he put measures in place and I trust him as I have dealt with Al before but Leon can't remain part of it.
Unfortunately they have both chosen Leon and money over integrity.
Perhaps Al could tell us to which British Standard of procedures (measures) they have in place and who audits them externally? That would obviously just show this isn't a casual arrangement where Al says we'd better not let Leon rub the gunge in this week.
We could maybe see proof that every former model still on the site has been written to tell them they are on a website owned and associated with a convicted sex offender and do they still want to be on the site.
I think you maybe need a reality check as to what sort of business this is.
I don't mean any British Standards in relationship to Health and Safety or Chemicals by the way,just procedures.
jammy_273 said: None of this is about getting our pitch forks out to go all vigilante... Its about having a community that is safe for all members, and we can be proud to be a part of.
It also highlights just how unhealthy it is to have so much the WAM ecosystem in just one website. Everyone is equating a a ban from here to Mostwam being shut down. They can sell elsewhere if anyone is buying. They don't need crowdfunding. Its not tragic. Its a business.
It also highlights just how unhealthy it is to have so much the WAM ecosystem in just one website. Everyone is equating a a ban from here to Mostwam being shut down. They can sell elsewhere if anyone is buying. They don't need crowdfunding. Its not tragic. Its a business.
Exactly. It's as simple as that. Remove all trace of them from here and then they can whatever they want elsewhere. It's so obvious.
Uninventivename said: So I've previously purchased from MostWam (a lot) and I cancelled subscriptions to their sites today. Without this thread I'd still have been funding Leon's enterprises so thank you VAVAVIE for shining a light on this.
Sex is the whole point of this site and sexual assault should be a red line.
Particularly when a person has been found guilty through a legal system in which it is notoriously difficult to secure a conviction. In case there are any West Coast Americans here who want to disagree (I'm thinking of one in particular from earlier in the thread), try looking up UK rape conviction rates.
Of course rape is a particularly heinous sexual offence, but we're talking a 70% fall in prosecutions in the 4 years to 2021. We're talking 1 in 60 rape cases actually reaching court.
A far cry from 'woke' mob justice and IMHO a UK conviction is absolutely a basis for immediate disassociation by a supposedly respectable and welcoming site. /rant
Sex is the whole point of this site and sexual assault should be a red line.
Particularly when a person has been found guilty through a legal system in which it is notoriously difficult to secure a conviction. In case there are any West Coast Americans here who want to disagree (I'm thinking of one in particular from earlier in the thread), try looking up UK rape conviction rates.
Of course rape is a particularly heinous sexual offence, but we're talking a 70% fall in prosecutions in the 4 years to 2021. We're talking 1 in 60 rape cases actually reaching court.
A far cry from 'woke' mob justice and IMHO a UK conviction is absolutely a basis for immediate disassociation by a supposedly respectable and welcoming site. /rant
Thanks. It is difficult to get a sexual complaint dealt with in the UK.
Yes it is as far as UMD is concerned just a case of full removal in my book.
I'm sad the subject has exposed so many people on here as dubious characters
VAVAVIE said:
Al has posted himself to confirm he has known all the time about the sexual assault and the conviction.
Leon has stated that Lisa has known all along too.
They have all misled this Forum and the business has taken thousands of pounds from members on here.
Do you not understand that is unacceptable and from here all trace should be removed?
I personally don't want to help these people, they seem to be vile in supporting what has happened.
Nobody is stopping them carrying on elsewhere. They can do whatever they want in whatever legal way they want.
If YOU want to persuade Leon,Lisa and Al to donate around £130k of profit to various charities plus pay back their wages to charity then I wish you all the luck in the world but do expect to have a face covered in piss as you'll be pissing in the wind.
I hope that shows you there is no ill intent as I don't know these people but I can see the bleeding obvious that if UMD is a professional business that respects its customers and producers then their collective actions must lead to their complete removal from UMD.
messyface1994 said:
You aren't to win the argument that people who like MostWam and it's content and want it to continue are by default ok with Leon still being on the platform. Most people here, if not all, have come to the realisation that Leon needs to go. He's a convicted sex offender, and can't stay on the platform, and more serious and sincere efforts should be made to protect all the models that star in wam videos from now on, and to to make sure victims are taken seriously and have their situations dealt with efficiently.
Someone else pointed out that it's not that MostWam in general is being cancelled, but that we are figuring out how to move on, presumably without Leon. Others have also pointed out that MostWam should be able to continue if Leon steps down and hands the ownership to it to someone more responsible, or have a new site entirely, and would also make sense as a punishment for him, although that wouldn't be nearly enough to justify forgiveness, but it would be a start.
As I've said before, the money generated by MostWam that would have gone into Leons pocket, can be sent to various charities that support victims of sexual assault and rape, making MostWam a genuine force for good, as well as going into potential resources that can help safeguard models from predatory producers (hopefully, by making sure they don't exist in the first place by having some sort of sexual assault awareness course that people have to pass in order to become a producer).
Your tone and attitude isn't one of someone who wants to help. It's one of someone that wants to destroy something at any cost, and that's not being helpful. Instead of yelling at each other, let's actually do something productive and helpful for the people you claim to care so much about.
Also, when did Al become a bad guy here?
VAVAVIE said: I'm shocked at some of the male responses on here. I'm amazed any female would like to remain on this Forum. We all like sexual activity but very sinister opinions are flowing from customers and some producers alike. I suggest everybody reads the whole thread before choosing who to spend money with.
Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain
1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when Cassie left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place
This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.
Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is Cassie and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, Cassie or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.
Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.
How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.
Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain
1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when Cassie left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place
This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.
Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is Cassie and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, Cassie or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.
Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.
How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.
You aren't to win the argument that people who like MostWam and it's content and want it to continue are by default ok with Leon still being on the platform. Most people here, if not all, have come to the realisation that Leon needs to go. He's a convicted sex offender, and can't stay on the platform, and more serious and sincere efforts should be made to protect all the models that star in wam videos from now on, and to to make sure victims are taken seriously and have their situations dealt with efficiently.
Someone else pointed out that it's not that MostWam in general is being cancelled, but that we are figuring out how to move on, presumably without Leon. Others have also pointed out that MostWam should be able to continue if Leon steps down and hands the ownership to it to someone more responsible, or have a new site entirely, and would also make sense as a punishment for him, although that wouldn't be nearly enough to justify forgiveness, but it would be a start.
As I've said before, the money generated by MostWam that would have gone into Leons pocket, can be sent to various charities that support victims of sexual assault and rape, making MostWam a genuine force for good, as well as going into potential resources that can help safeguard models from predatory producers (hopefully, by making sure they don't exist in the first place by having some sort of sexual assault awareness course that people have to pass in order to become a producer).
Your tone and attitude isn't one of someone who wants to help. It's one of someone that wants to destroy something at any cost, and that's not being helpful. Instead of yelling at each other, let's actually do something productive and helpful for the people you claim to care so much about.
Also, when did Al become a bad guy here?
Al has posted himself to confirm he has known all the time about the sexual assault and the conviction.
Leon has stated that Lisa has known all along too.
They have all misled this Forum and the business has taken thousands of pounds from members on here.
Do you not understand that is unacceptable and from here all trace should be removed?
I personally don't want to help these people, they seem to be vile in supporting what has happened.
Nobody is stopping them carrying on elsewhere. They can do whatever they want in whatever legal way they want.
If YOU want to persuade Leon,Lisa and Al to donate around £130k of profit to various charities plus pay back their wages to charity then I wish you all the luck in the world but do expect to have a face covered in piss as you'll be pissing in the wind.
I hope that shows you there is no ill intent as I don't know these people but I can see the bleeding obvious that if UMD is a professional business that respects its customers and producers then their collective actions must lead to their complete removal from UMD.
I'm pretty sure you're the only one in this thread who thinks Al and Lisa are bad guys here. Do you not understand that MostWam is not the problem here? Leon is, and the two can be separated from each other going forward if Leon's decides to do the right thing, you know that right?
If YOU don't like MostWam, then good for you. Please don't attack anyone who does watch MostWam, and Kelsey herself said she had no problem with MostWam being here or people watching MostWam as long as Leon is out of the equation.
Jesus christ, you talk like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum, not a grown adult trying to do help someone. Your aggressive and nasty attitude does not make me want to support you, since it's clear you are a terrible person in reality and are using this situation to try and make yourself look better, but are failing miserably. I never said that all the money they have ever earned should go to charity, just a suggesting that at least some of the earnings at least from now on should go forward to supporting them.
You have shown nothing but ill intent here. You're an angry person trying to violently destroy something, not someone who wants to make this community a better place.
Your own opinion of what should happen is not the "bleeding obvious thing that a professional business that respects its customers" should do, as you have been anything but professional, so I don't know how you think you have any right to lecture others on professionalism.
what should be an easy and simplistic decision to stop those convicted of sexual assault to sell and produce sexual content on a fuckin fetiish forum has turned into what really should of been expected. A fuckin circus of misogynists, the painfully idiotic and cunts who can only think through the lens of getting their rocks off.
A shameful display of some of the most hopeless people in the world talking about fuckin cancel culture on a sexual assault conviction. How these people dress themselves without foaming at the mouth over a term is astounding.
I think we all know what actually should be done here but then again the guy who came on a model without her knowledge is still fuckin here so ah well.
A shameful display of some of the most hopeless people in the world talking about fuckin cancel culture on a sexual assault conviction. How these people dress themselves without foaming at the mouth over a term is astounding.
I think we all know what actually should be done here but then again the guy who came on a model without her knowledge is still fuckin here so ah well.
VAVAVIE said: Perhaps Al could tell us to which British Standard of procedures (measures) they have in place and who audits them externally? That would obviously just show this isn't a casual arrangement where Al says we'd better not let Leon rub the gunge in this week.
Is there a BS or ISO standard for safeguarding? E.g. I know that ISO 9001 is for quality systems (roughly equivalent to the old BS 5750 part 2), and ISO 27001 is for an ISMS (Information Security Management System). I haven't come across any relevant standards in this context, but I'd be interested to hear about them if they do exist.
We could maybe see proof that every former model still on the site has been written to tell them they are on a website owned and associated with a convicted sex offender and do they still want to be on the site.
I think it would be difficult for MostWAM to show us proof without doxxing their models in the process (i.e. revealing real names and addresses). Realistically, I think the best we can get is an assurance that it's been done, which could then be tested later (e.g. if model X says that they never notified her).
I'm pretty sure you're the only one in this thread who thinks Al and Lisa are bad guys here. Do you not understand that MostWam is not the problem here? Leon is, and the two can be separated from each other going forward if Leon's decides to do the right thing, you know that right?
If YOU don't like MostWam, then good for you. Please don't attack anyone who does watch MostWam, and Kelsey herself said she had no problem with MostWam being here or people watching MostWam as long as Leon is out of the equation.
Jesus christ, you talk like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum, not a grown adult trying to do help someone. Your aggressive and nasty attitude does not make me want to support you, since it's clear you are a terrible person in reality and are using this situation to try and make yourself look better, but are failing miserably. I never said that all the money they have ever earned should go to charity, just a suggesting that at least some of the earnings at least should go forward to supporting them.
You have shown nothing but ill intent here. You're an angry person trying to violently destroy something, not someone who wants to make this community a better place.
Your own opinion of what should happen is not the "bleeding obvious thing that a professional business that respects its customers" should do, as you have been anything but professional, so I don't know how you think you have any right to lecture others on professionalism.
If YOU don't like MostWam, then good for you. Please don't attack anyone who does watch MostWam, and Kelsey herself said she had no problem with MostWam being here or people watching MostWam as long as Leon is out of the equation.
Jesus christ, you talk like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum, not a grown adult trying to do help someone. Your aggressive and nasty attitude does not make me want to support you, since it's clear you are a terrible person in reality and are using this situation to try and make yourself look better, but are failing miserably. I never said that all the money they have ever earned should go to charity, just a suggesting that at least some of the earnings at least should go forward to supporting them.
You have shown nothing but ill intent here. You're an angry person trying to violently destroy something, not someone who wants to make this community a better place.
Your own opinion of what should happen is not the "bleeding obvious thing that a professional business that respects its customers" should do, as you have been anything but professional, so I don't know how you think you have any right to lecture others on professionalism.
It's apparent VAVAVIE has a particular axe to grind here. They're not an impartial observer, there's a direct connection to someone involved, or they are that someone. No other reason an account with practically zero posts before this would become the "spokesperson".
Wamchantelle said: I'm sorry but as an ex-member of authority I find it hard to believe anyone would plead guilty to something they haven't done just to end the problems they face
This happens so often. I'm actually finding it hard to believe you can't believe it.
That's my wife in the profile pic, not me.
VAVAVIE said:
Al has posted himself to confirm he has known all the time about the sexual assault and the conviction.
Leon has stated that Lisa has known all along too.
They have all misled this Forum and the business has taken thousands of pounds from members on here.
Do you not understand that is unacceptable and from here all trace should be removed?
I personally don't want to help these people, they seem to be vile in supporting what has happened.
Nobody is stopping them carrying on elsewhere. They can do whatever they want in whatever legal way they want.
If YOU want to persuade Leon,Lisa and Al to donate around £130k of profit to various charities plus pay back their wages to charity then I wish you all the luck in the world but do expect to have a face covered in piss as you'll be pissing in the wind.
I hope that shows you there is no ill intent as I don't know these people but I can see the bleeding obvious that if UMD is a professional business that respects its customers and producers then their collective actions must lead to their complete removal from UMD.
messyface1994 said:
You aren't to win the argument that people who like MostWam and it's content and want it to continue are by default ok with Leon still being on the platform. Most people here, if not all, have come to the realisation that Leon needs to go. He's a convicted sex offender, and can't stay on the platform, and more serious and sincere efforts should be made to protect all the models that star in wam videos from now on, and to to make sure victims are taken seriously and have their situations dealt with efficiently.
Someone else pointed out that it's not that MostWam in general is being cancelled, but that we are figuring out how to move on, presumably without Leon. Others have also pointed out that MostWam should be able to continue if Leon steps down and hands the ownership to it to someone more responsible, or have a new site entirely, and would also make sense as a punishment for him, although that wouldn't be nearly enough to justify forgiveness, but it would be a start.
As I've said before, the money generated by MostWam that would have gone into Leons pocket, can be sent to various charities that support victims of sexual assault and rape, making MostWam a genuine force for good, as well as going into potential resources that can help safeguard models from predatory producers (hopefully, by making sure they don't exist in the first place by having some sort of sexual assault awareness course that people have to pass in order to become a producer).
Your tone and attitude isn't one of someone who wants to help. It's one of someone that wants to destroy something at any cost, and that's not being helpful. Instead of yelling at each other, let's actually do something productive and helpful for the people you claim to care so much about.
Also, when did Al become a bad guy here?
VAVAVIE said: I'm shocked at some of the male responses on here. I'm amazed any female would like to remain on this Forum. We all like sexual activity but very sinister opinions are flowing from customers and some producers alike. I suggest everybody reads the whole thread before choosing who to spend money with.
Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain
1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when Cassie left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place
This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.
Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is Cassie and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, Cassie or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.
Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.
How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.
Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain
1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when Cassie left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place
This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.
Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is Cassie and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, Cassie or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.
Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.
How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.
You aren't to win the argument that people who like MostWam and it's content and want it to continue are by default ok with Leon still being on the platform. Most people here, if not all, have come to the realisation that Leon needs to go. He's a convicted sex offender, and can't stay on the platform, and more serious and sincere efforts should be made to protect all the models that star in wam videos from now on, and to to make sure victims are taken seriously and have their situations dealt with efficiently.
Someone else pointed out that it's not that MostWam in general is being cancelled, but that we are figuring out how to move on, presumably without Leon. Others have also pointed out that MostWam should be able to continue if Leon steps down and hands the ownership to it to someone more responsible, or have a new site entirely, and would also make sense as a punishment for him, although that wouldn't be nearly enough to justify forgiveness, but it would be a start.
As I've said before, the money generated by MostWam that would have gone into Leons pocket, can be sent to various charities that support victims of sexual assault and rape, making MostWam a genuine force for good, as well as going into potential resources that can help safeguard models from predatory producers (hopefully, by making sure they don't exist in the first place by having some sort of sexual assault awareness course that people have to pass in order to become a producer).
Your tone and attitude isn't one of someone who wants to help. It's one of someone that wants to destroy something at any cost, and that's not being helpful. Instead of yelling at each other, let's actually do something productive and helpful for the people you claim to care so much about.
Also, when did Al become a bad guy here?
Al has posted himself to confirm he has known all the time about the sexual assault and the conviction.
Leon has stated that Lisa has known all along too.
They have all misled this Forum and the business has taken thousands of pounds from members on here.
Do you not understand that is unacceptable and from here all trace should be removed?
I personally don't want to help these people, they seem to be vile in supporting what has happened.
Nobody is stopping them carrying on elsewhere. They can do whatever they want in whatever legal way they want.
If YOU want to persuade Leon,Lisa and Al to donate around £130k of profit to various charities plus pay back their wages to charity then I wish you all the luck in the world but do expect to have a face covered in piss as you'll be pissing in the wind.
I hope that shows you there is no ill intent as I don't know these people but I can see the bleeding obvious that if UMD is a professional business that respects its customers and producers then their collective actions must lead to their complete removal from UMD.
Wait, so Lisa and Al are accomplices now? I've been away most of the weekend and just trying to catch up on some of this now. No possibility that someone else (Leon) could have logged into Lisa's account here. He's admitted to using the MostWam one that was previously "Leia" and "Charlotte" before that.
Who are you? Where did you get all this info and when? If you've had it, why now, and now earlier when these things happened?
I understand wanting Leon gone, but now Lisa is the bad guy too?
There is a LOT of information we don't all seem to equally have at our disposal.
He's more potato now than man. Twisted and evil.
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