VAVAVIE said: I'm shocked at some of the male responses on here. I'm amazed any female would like to remain on this Forum. We all like sexual activity but very sinister opinions are flowing from customers and some producers alike. I suggest everybody reads the whole thread before choosing who to spend money with.

Separately though as the person who agreed to speak out about Leon and his companies here are very important bullet points in regards to this man and his company based on fact only and facts given in this thread by Leon and Mostwams 'Al' and facts available in the public domain

1) Leon admits the crime
2) A UK Crown Court convicted him
3)A huge sob story from Leon mitigated the sentence passed
4)He is a sex offender
5)A female Mostwam model was molested
6)Lisa left Leon in August 2020 at which point P.P.H. Ltd was split 60% Leon/ 40% Lisa
7)Leon took 100% ownership 10 days after Lisa left
8)The last accounts show £60k plus AFTER all expenses including wages are paid.
9)Leon confirms Lisa posted when [redacted] left
10) Leon confirms Lisa is still an employee
11) Mostwam Al confirms he knew straight after the assault took place

This confirms Mostwam (or really P.P.H. Ltd) is rotten to the core with Al and Lisa joining Leon in being totally complicit in continuing to trade without informing the owner of UMD and taking over two years of income until being caught out by a third party.

Importantly in addition to the girl Leon was found guilty of molesting by a court of law he now states he has another problem with another girl and this is the girl who has approached me.
So that is two girls confirmed by Leon himself.
It isn't that girl who has approached me, nor it is [redacted] and none of the girls this girl has put me in touch with are the girl he molested, [redacted] or the girl he thinks has come to me.
I will have to stop giving any further information on here regarding the girls I am talking to as they have to now have a discussion themselves,take legal advice on their treatment by Leon.

Reading through the thread it was mentioned that the Jessie (Messy Jessie) or the guy behind her had complained about poor treatment towards the female models so I have asked a producer to find that conversation.
I only now say my heart goes out to the many females on here who now feel like shit about a lot of the responses which are shameful and have also have awful experiences themselves.
So far we've had lots of victim blaming (including by the guilty sex offender) and justification that poor little Leon is the actual victim and that the company producing the WAM content and receiving the income is very separate to Leon. It's not,he's own 100% of it and those 'running' it with him have made the decision to go along with his dishonesty.

How much more does an organisation have to do to be banished in all its forms from UMD?
As someone said manipulating sales figures to improve rank or whatever Messy Jessie did seems extremely tame by comparison. Ok so I'll have to wait now and take a lead from the girls as to what they want to do next regarding legal action.

KelseyRose said: I am just so fucking disappointed by some of the responses here. I am trying so hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, but it is just soul-crushing to see some of the behavior here (much of it more troubling than the actual offense that started this whole conversation).

In the interest of making sure that nobody is making an ill-informed decision/comment based on their personal beliefs and/or sexual desires, I would like to just quickly summarize the facts that have been laid out across the two threads regarding Leon/Mostwam. Not opinions, but facts, as stated by Leon, in this thread and the other.

- Leon made a mistake, under severe emotional circumstances, and sexually assaulted one of his models.

- That model reported the crime. It was investigated. There was enough evidence found that he was prosecuted for it.

- In court, Leon was convicted of sexual assaulting one of his models.

- He then hid this conviction from MM/UMD staff, so that he could continuing doing business here, without any consequence or repercussions.

- He hid his conviction from his customer base, so that he could continuing making money off of us without any judgement towards how we see his content. (Although based on the comments in this thread, it looks like that was an unnecessary step, since it's become abundantly clear that the lot of you would be more than happy to purchase content from a convicted sex offender. Congrats!).

- He also hid his conviction from his employees at first, most of which are young models, so that he could continue operating his business as usual, without any consequences related to his conviction for sexually assaulting a model.

- After being able to hide this for over a year, one of the models that works for him found out about it. He then terminated this model's employment. She then approached a member here and notified them about the whole thing.

- That is the ONLY reason we now know about it. He had no intention of telling us. He had no intention of telling MM. He had no intention of telling his models/employees. In ALL of those examples, he was caught.

- After being caught, he stated here that he was innocent, that he did not actually commit any sexual assault, but that he pleaded guilty to it only to avoid his fetish and business from being in the public eye (despite that fact that his fetish and business ARE already public)..

- He then claimed that his decision to plead guilty in court was influenced by fears/pressure related to the 2017 #MeToo movement being in "overdrive" at the time, and in specific, the March 2021 trial for the murder of Sarah Everard (despite it being March of 2022 when he entered said guilty plea).

- He then later admitted that he did in fact commit the sexual assault that he was convicted of, and said that it was a mistake made while seeking solace in a friend during a tumultuous period for him personally. He that he regretted his actions and any harm they caused, and explained that he was under severe emotional distress at the time of the event due to personal trauma.

- He then stated that steps were taken at Mostwam to assure preventing this type of thing from ever happening again. (despite previously claiming that it never actually happened and that he was actually innocent)

- He then later admitted that he was not immediately forthcoming about his conviction (of sexually assaulting a model) with the models that he worked with. (despite previously claiming that there were steps put into place to make sure future sexual assaults wouldn't happen)

- He then admitted that one of the models that has worked with him happily for several years found out about his conviction and voiced concern about it and then was terminated. She has since approached a member here (surely out of spite for being fired) to out him for the crime that he has; claimed innocence to, admitted guilt to, lied about, attempted to justify, and most importantly hid from everyone for over a year.

These are all things that have been confirmed, by Leon, in this thread and the other thread. None of the above is conjecture or opinion or up for debate. How you feel about all of these facts is up you to decide, but there is no debate as to whether the above information is true or not. (and I have been taking screenshots, so it doesn't matter if you go back and edit the posts Leon).

Earlier in the other thread, when I was arguing in support of Leon/Mostwam, (before he completely destroyed the enormous amount of leeway I was giving him due to my own personal perverted interests in him maintaining his business) I said;


His behavior since has been entirely that of "someone of general poor character". I am not concerned with punishing him for what he did in the back of that van. He has already been punished by the courts for that. I AM concerned with his ability to sexually assault other models, and my concern about that started at 0% when this thread began, and has since risen to 100%, solely because of his responses here.

Nobody on here, with the exception of CalGungeFan, is a bigger Mostwam fan than me, as evident by the 450GB's worth of content I've bought from them over the years.

https://umd.net/media/forum_uploads/10_22/screenshot20221023at125739pm_uid_77710_1666560443_10552.png

Put simply, there is no Fucking way any of you jerk off to Leon's material as much as I do, and I would be shocked if there was anyone who wanted to be able to continue jerking off to his material more than me. The fact that I have 180'd on my support of him/Mostwam since this discussion started on Friday should tell you all that you need to know. It is like a heroin addict in the throes of being dope sick arguing in favor of preventing her drug dealer from being able to sling his smack.

And yet, here I am, spending more time trying to help some of you understand that financially supporting a sex offender who hid and lied about his crime is a bad thing.

Like this shit isn't hard you guys. Leon clearly sexually assaulted a model, he clearly hid it from MM and UMD staff, he clearly hid it from us, and he clearly lied about it and tried to justify it in the hopes that he would be able to remain unaffected by any of the above transgressions. And that is just going by the information he has provided.

I don't have a problem with UMD letting Mostwam continue operating here.

I don't have a problem with anybody who continues to buy their content.

But I do have a serious fucking problem with the way some of you have behaved in defense of a convicted sex offender desperately trying to maintain his ability to work with other potential victims while showing no remorse for his actions, and I am honestly disgusted with myself for even being a part of a community that could have such people in it.

I am also proud of all the people who have had the courage to comment here (whether I agree with your comments or not).

But some of you need serious serious help, and it is immensely distressing to share a fetish with you.

We also can't have anyone be a producer of WAM anymore. At the very least, to operate on this site, producers should have to take a sort of sexual assault/rape awareness exam to make sure they know how to behave appropriately around models and know what to do, and what not to do, to eliminate the existence of predatory producers. When meeting with models, the first thing that should be discussed with the model is their safety and security and to make sure to get clear consent with every model and to clearly inform them exactly what they are going to do and what your intentions with them are. There should be no surprises with them.

ericachronic said:
Classes and awareness exams won't do anything.

You shouldn't need a class or exam to tell you what is and isn't ok.

Someone who is capable of doing bad stuff will just lie on it anyway.

His behavior since has been entirely that of "someone of general poor character". I am not concerned with punishing him for what he did in the back of that van. He has already been punished by the courts for that. I AM concerned with his ability to sexually assault other models, and my concern about that started at 0% when this thread began, and has since risen to 100%, solely because of his responses here.


I don't have a problem with UMD letting Mostwam continue operating here.

KelseyRose said:
Beautiful words Rev. I'm sure you've done enough so that Leon will now sell you the Mostwam catalog at a discount once he's banned. You can feel free to return to your daily posts promoting exploitative Latin American content now and stop sucking up to a convicted sex offender

niald88 said: Purely spitballing here, and maybe it's pure fantasy, but if there was a way for the UMD community to raise the money to take over mostwam, and then continue to fund it, maybe through some sort of share scheme, would that be satisfactory to people on both sides of the debate? Leon's no longer in charge, the site then belongs to the community, and mostwam carries on?

Like I say, could be talking utter shit, and frankly wouldn't know where to start working out all the legal and financial details, but just throwing it out there.

Ps. I too am very disappointed in my fellow man reading some of the comments on here. Some people need to take a long hard look in the mirror at themselves.

bizopp713 said:

I would have a problem with Mostwam continuing to operate if Leon has any part of it. We have no power to force him to back out of the company but if he doesn't I don't see me supporting Mostwam's continual membership in this forum. Also, I would prefer any model that would like to not be associated with Mostwam to be allowed to remove their content. No one should be force to be aligned with a business with a history of sexual assault.

RevSlymsford said:
I would politely disagree. I don't think it is dangerous in a civilised society to ask that all viewpoints and possibilities are considered before a verdict is reached (whatever the context).

In those posts, I was responding directly to posts saying that there was no plausible reason why Leon would say he was guilty if he wasn't (when there clearly was, and there is copious evidence of this in criminal history) and that the saying that 'there's no smoke without fire' is enough to condemn someone (which I disagree with entirely).

You are right...I wasn't in the police enquiry room and I haven't seen the transcripts...none of us have, and that's entirely my point. (Unless you have, in which case why haven't you shared this proof). I was very careful to make clear I wasn't saying that Leon was innocent / justified or whatever , far from it, ...just that his assertions that he was not guilty were plausible with what we knew at the time. A lot has moved on from when I posted and Leon has shared more with us, so we now know that something did happen, but again none of us know exactly what.

I was at pains to point out that it was 100% right that the model was heard, and had her day in court. And nowhere have I said anything that contradicts that. I have only tried to suggest the principle that, before we rush to judgement, we wait until we have all viewpoints, and carefully weigh everything before us. Especially as, with a guilty plea, the evidence was never tested before a jury.

And the final point I would make is that we now do have Leon's account, and we do know that clearly *something* happened, howsoever occasioned, that was evidentially strong enough for the CPS to charge. Leon pled guilty and was sentenced and punished. Even though the judge said it was 'completely out of character', it is absolutely right that, on the basis he pled guilty, he was punished in accordance with that plea.

The bit I struggle with, is why in society we then feel the need to inflict further punishment on those who have already received their punishment via the courts, and had their lives turned upside down as well. Surely the punishment aspect is what the courts are there for.

Leon's marriage is over. He has to tell all future models he was convicted of a sex offence. He has to tell his child the same thing, at some stage. He has a suspended sentence hanging over him. All of these things may well be the right outcomes for this moment of madness.

But I don't get why we can then feel entitled to say 'no..the courts didn't do enough. We are all without sin here and we cast you out and push you further into a downward spiral'. My feeling is the courts have done their job, Leon has received his punishment and anyone who chooses to boycott him should feel 100% able to do so. But I don't feel it's UMD's job to hand out further 'justice'.

I do note also that we often read cases of those who, through an ''out of character' (in the Judge's words) moment of madness, are double punished..not just by the courts, but then by wider society and can't rebuild their livelihood even after receiving their punishment in the courts. And then when the person is driven to desperate acts, there's much hand-wringing when it is way too late.

Lastly, as others have said, it's absolutely vital we remember the victim too. I really hope and pray that the court case brought her closure and that she is able to move on. Whatever exactly happened, she was left in a position where she felt she needed to put herself through the trauma of a court case in order to seek justice. And that would never be done lightly. I just don't feel the two things are mutually exclusive, that if we have some empathy for Leon and feel that we should leave the retributive justice to the legal system, it means we are pro sex offenders. To me that's a massive misrepresentation, intentional otherwise.

Lastly, people have talked about those with vested interests. I am a direct business rival of Leon. It would probably benefit me financially if he was kicked off UMD. But I am sticking my head above the parapet because I am all for trying to find the nuance in an increasingly black and white world.

And if all of the above means "I have lost a lot of credibility" as you write, then I will have to pay that price.

I'm personally not a fan now of MostWam being a part of UMD, especially with Leon a part of it currently too. I have made my choice and won't be purchasing from them - that's my choice to make and others rightfully will make their own.

No matter on the way people spin, give their opinion on justice systems etc the fact remains - there is currently a sex offender within this thread, let alone on the site at this moment in time. Kelsey's most recent post was a good one to look for anyone wanting to look at the facts without the chatter around it.

But just going to repeat a point I made earlier - they have two subscription sites outside of UMD. At least a couple of the models also have non-Wam, off of UMD content they do for themselves I believe (So possibly more?) And finally, other producers with fantastic models and similar, if not higher budgeted videos operate perfectly well and either do not associate themsevles, or rarely do, with UMD.

I'm not saying they wouldn't take a hit, but I doubt they would go under or into the ground - this thread alone shows plentry willing to support them. Each to their own, of course, but why does it have to be here if they can still make money elsewhere?

But, as I say I have made my decision personally - just weighing in as someone who never posts really (first ever post being my earlier one!).

You make a sensible point. As fair as THIS forum is concerned every trace of Leon and all his companies should be removed without trace as this is the forum that has been deceived by Mostwam staff and its sex offending owner. Nobody on here is saying anything about them having a business elsewhere although no free advertising for those sites should be given on here.

You make a sensible point. As fair as THIS forum is concerned every trace of Leon and all his companies should be removed without trace as this is the forum that has been deceived by Mostwam staff and its sex offending owner. Nobody on here is saying anything about them having a business elsewhere although no free advertising for those sites should be given on here.

messyface1994 said:
You aren't to win the argument that people who like MostWam and it's content and want it to continue are by default ok with Leon still being on the platform. Most people here, if not all, have come to the realisation that Leon needs to go. He's a convicted sex offender, and can't stay on the platform, and more serious and sincere efforts should be made to protect all the models that star in wam videos from now on, and to to make sure victims are taken seriously and have their situations dealt with efficiently.

Someone else pointed out that it's not that MostWam in general is being cancelled, but that we are figuring out how to move on, presumably without Leon. Others have also pointed out that MostWam should be able to continue if Leon steps down and hands the ownership to it to someone more responsible, or have a new site entirely, and would also make sense as a punishment for him, although that wouldn't be nearly enough to justify forgiveness, but it would be a start.

As I've said before, the money generated by MostWam that would have gone into Leons pocket, can be sent to various charities that support victims of sexual assault and rape, making MostWam a genuine force for good, as well as going into potential resources that can help safeguard models from predatory producers (hopefully, by making sure they don't exist in the first place by having some sort of sexual assault awareness course that people have to pass in order to become a producer).

Your tone and attitude isn't one of someone who wants to help. It's one of someone that wants to destroy something at any cost, and that's not being helpful. Instead of yelling at each other, let's actually do something productive and helpful for the people you claim to care so much about.

Also, when did Al become a bad guy here?

I am not going to fault Lisa or Al or any of the other employees Mostwam has for the actions of one individual. Donald Sterling was a horrible person but we don't hold it against the Clippers as a whole. Harvey Weinstein was awful and we don't hold it against Miramax. I do admit someone there could have come forward sooner but as Al said he put measures in place and I trust him as I have dealt with Al before but Leon can't remain part of it.

jammy_273 said: None of this is about getting our pitch forks out to go all vigilante... Its about having a community that is safe for all members, and we can be proud to be a part of.

It also highlights just how unhealthy it is to have so much the WAM ecosystem in just one website. Everyone is equating a a ban from here to Mostwam being shut down. They can sell elsewhere if anyone is buying. They don't need crowdfunding. Its not tragic. Its a business.

Uninventivename said: So I've previously purchased from MostWam (a lot) and I cancelled subscriptions to their sites today. Without this thread I'd still have been funding Leon's enterprises so thank you VAVAVIE for shining a light on this.

Sex is the whole point of this site and sexual assault should be a red line.

Particularly when a person has been found guilty through a legal system in which it is notoriously difficult to secure a conviction. In case there are any West Coast Americans here who want to disagree (I'm thinking of one in particular from earlier in the thread), try looking up UK rape conviction rates.

Of course rape is a particularly heinous sexual offence, but we're talking a 70% fall in prosecutions in the 4 years to 2021. We're talking 1 in 60 rape cases actually reaching court.

A far cry from 'woke' mob justice and IMHO a UK conviction is absolutely a basis for immediate disassociation by a supposedly respectable and welcoming site. /rant

VAVAVIE said:
Al has posted himself to confirm he has known all the time about the sexual assault and the conviction.
Leon has stated that Lisa has known all along too.
They have all misled this Forum and the business has taken thousands of pounds from members on here.
Do you not understand that is unacceptable and from here all trace should be removed?
I personally don't want to help these people, they seem to be vile in supporting what has happened.
Nobody is stopping them carrying on elsewhere. They can do whatever they want in whatever legal way they want.
If YOU want to persuade Leon,Lisa and Al to donate around £130k of profit to various charities plus pay back their wages to charity then I wish you all the luck in the world but do expect to have a face covered in piss as you'll be pissing in the wind.
I hope that shows you there is no ill intent as I don't know these people but I can see the bleeding obvious that if UMD is a professional business that respects its customers and producers then their collective actions must lead to their complete removal from UMD.

VAVAVIE said: Perhaps Al could tell us to which British Standard of procedures (measures) they have in place and who audits them externally? That would obviously just show this isn't a casual arrangement where Al says we'd better not let Leon rub the gunge in this week.

We could maybe see proof that every former model still on the site has been written to tell them they are on a website owned and associated with a convicted sex offender and do they still want to be on the site.

I'm pretty sure you're the only one in this thread who thinks Al and Lisa are bad guys here. Do you not understand that MostWam is not the problem here? Leon is, and the two can be separated from each other going forward if Leon's decides to do the right thing, you know that right?

If YOU don't like MostWam, then good for you. Please don't attack anyone who does watch MostWam, and Kelsey herself said she had no problem with MostWam being here or people watching MostWam as long as Leon is out of the equation.

Jesus christ, you talk like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum, not a grown adult trying to do help someone. Your aggressive and nasty attitude does not make me want to support you, since it's clear you are a terrible person in reality and are using this situation to try and make yourself look better, but are failing miserably. I never said that all the money they have ever earned should go to charity, just a suggesting that at least some of the earnings at least should go forward to supporting them.

You have shown nothing but ill intent here. You're an angry person trying to violently destroy something, not someone who wants to make this community a better place.

Your own opinion of what should happen is not the "bleeding obvious thing that a professional business that respects its customers" should do, as you have been anything but professional, so I don't know how you think you have any right to lecture others on professionalism.

Wamchantelle said: I'm sorry but as an ex-member of authority I find it hard to believe anyone would plead guilty to something they haven't done just to end the problems they face

VAVAVIE said:
Al has posted himself to confirm he has known all the time about the sexual assault and the conviction.
Leon has stated that Lisa has known all along too.
They have all misled this Forum and the business has taken thousands of pounds from members on here.
Do you not understand that is unacceptable and from here all trace should be removed?
I personally don't want to help these people, they seem to be vile in supporting what has happened.
Nobody is stopping them carrying on elsewhere. They can do whatever they want in whatever legal way they want.
If YOU want to persuade Leon,Lisa and Al to donate around £130k of profit to various charities plus pay back their wages to charity then I wish you all the luck in the world but do expect to have a face covered in piss as you'll be pissing in the wind.
I hope that shows you there is no ill intent as I don't know these people but I can see the bleeding obvious that if UMD is a professional business that respects its customers and producers then their collective actions must lead to their complete removal from UMD.

Potatoman-J said: No possibility that someone else (Leon) could have logged into Lisa's account here. He's admitted to using the MostWam one that was previously "Leia" and "Charlotte" before that.

leonmoomin said:Lisa has posted as Lisa the whole time, although her and me have separated, she has continued to work for the company and do the administration.
Including working with a HR company to put new working practises into place, contracts and codes of conduct.
She can clearly be heard in the background of many of our newest videos.
I'm sure the person who brought this to the person posting here can confirm that Lisa still works for the company.
I don't have access to her UMD account.