well, to change the subject....how come we can have all this shit and ppl getting shit for giving their opinions

(my own penis shriveled up reading this shit) but threads where two models, three models, or even four!! are talking back and forth about their video that they are in and what they did and how much fun they had, gets locked, blocked or taken down.....when people have fun with those threads....

i find that fucking weird on a fetish forum.....

sorry messmaster that is just my opinion here....another shining example of if you dont like it then scroll past and shut the fuck up. i gave my opinion bc i was just responding to MG. in a nice and friendly way, just saying something to another producer that i look up to ....then it all went to hell....and this shit is still up and going?? okay......

Not sure where this went wrong, exactly. I don't think anyone intended to body shame anyone else but the OP did ask what people think about plus sized models. Lordy, people should be able to express their preferences without being attacked for them. I agree that using a kinder tone should be an easy enough thing to do. Always consider the possibility that someone might be reading these words and take them to heart.

I do apologize if I offended anyone. I would feel terrible if I hurt someone's feelings. I'm not sure if I'm one of the people who ticked off the other folks so I'd like to clarify my remarks a bit for context. I think maybe I didn't articulate my thoughts very well.

First of all, any way you slice it, the term "plus sized" is fraught with negative vibes in and of itself. I wanted to know what was meant by the term, like how do you even define it? But apparently, discussion of even that will devolve into an argument!

I would like to point out how difficult it is to describe someone as plus sized vs curvy vs bbw vs morbidly obese. I'll use London Andrews as an example since so many people brought her up. I follow London on Instagram and Tumblr. She's part of the body positive and #effyourbeautystandards movements. But she's not just plus sized or curvy. By her own admission, over and over, she has stated that she is technically morbidly obese. The thing is, she's very active. She carries her weight well. (Her beautiful face is helpful, too.) Carrying one's weight well is the crux of what I was trying to express and I didn't do a good job of it. I mean that with regard to carrying one's weight well regardless of what that weight is. Health is not just the number on the scale and I am well aware that BMI is not the most accurate indicator of health. Indeed, it is only meant to be a guideline.

I expressed my frustration with being referred to as plus sized, not here, but in the "real" world, when I am in fact, not actually plus sized. Because: typically, when it is used to describe me, it's been mean-spirited and meant as an insult. FWIW, I have also been "too thin". (But not for long, haha. 'Cause I do love pasta. And cupcakes...) And I did have a time in my life where I was overweight. So, I've experienced the commentary from all ends of the spectrum. I do feel that my experiences are valid and I know how it feels to be called names based on my appearance.

I think it's entirely possible for women to be attractive all along the spectrum, just as it is for men. We are not meant to all be cut in the same cookie cutter image.

I will, however, stand my ground regarding health. GENERALLY, we are biologically hard wired to be attracted to PERCEIVED health - whether true or not. I.e., you can be unhealthy at a low weight, a, high weight, and even in between. And that person may still look attractive. Overall, our species has evolved to be attracted to those who appear to be healthy. I know that can mean a lot of different things, and I'm not implying that I'm a doctor. Did not mean to ruffle anyone's feathers at all when I said I found healthy looking people, thin or curvy, attractive.

Having said all that, I try not to be be over sensitive regarding other people's preferences, esp when expressed on a forum where you don't really know people. If I got upset every time someone stated their preferences for models, I would have left a very long time ago. Cause I'm telling you, not just this poll/opinion thread, but many others like it, have negative connotations for someone.

For example, how do you think I might feel when someone starts a poll or a thread titled, "How old is too old?" You know, as the poster child for being one of the oldest, if not the oldest, active model on here these days? A fact that I'm actually very proud of, btw. There have been a couple of those. Or how about the ones where people post something about an actress or model from the past and then everyone is like, "Oh yeah, she was awesome but she would be so OLD now, like in her 40s"!! Heaven forbid, right??? It could certainly feel like I'm not welcome here but I know that's not the case. Even so, I will admit that a thread with a title like that does make my heart sink a tiny bit.

So, think about it...maybe there is another older woman considering posting some great stuff here and she reads one of those polls and she's like forget it, this place isn't gonna be interested in me, I'm not gonna be comfortable there. That's a pity. And if you read between the lines in many other posts, there is also a bias against women who are mothers. Which is ridiculous because many of us ladies here are mothers. (HOLLAH!)

However, we can't get our bloomers pinched up in our butt cracks over every post. Like my Papa said: if you are always looking for a fight, you will always find one. It would never end! And there is WAM to film!

My point being, we could all be more considerate with our words but at the same time, people should also be able to express their SOLICITED opinions without feeling like someone is going to rip them a new one. We should be kind. Always. At the same time, anyone who's gonna be active on here needs to have a thick skin. Try to consider everyone's intentions...I doubt very much that anyone intended to hurt anyone's feelings or be discriminatory when expressing their preferences.

PieZone, your thread was indeed hijacked and I contributed to that and I am sorry. But from what I see in the poll results, you have a lot of support for plus sized models. Film what you like, trying to cater to everyone's individual tastes is largely a lost cause anyway.

Bee

Mrs Bee, you may have just shown Jayce how a paragraph break works

It's not just about individual threads that you've posted Jayce. It's the cumulative effect of being really aggressive on replies to your own plugs over the years. Real substantive replies and conversation are always okay, but gratuitous banter just pushes other forum posts down and it's not fair to other producers and participants. If we are still not clear on this (including others reading this), please let me know. It's important to me that we are on the same page. By the way, posts in this thread are indeed being moderated, so don't assume nothing's being done just because the thread is still up.

As for others in this post, let's keep it calm because I don't want to lock it. Responses like "Oh, get off your cross" are just triggers for a flame war, though Noone did seem to conflate being a BBW with clinical obesity. He was only saying that looking clinically obese was his turn-off regardless of the actual health, but for a lot of people, categorizing it as a health issue kinda took it out of the personal opinion column and into the prejudging BBW's column anyway. Hence the comparisons to other things we prejudge about people, like racism and homophobia.

Stating your preference is one thing, but when you explain that it's based on presumptions about a person's health, that hits a sore spot with a lot of people who know that it's not necessarily be true, and they've been hearing that all their lives. But I think we can learn this from each other without the attitudes.

Messmaster

TL;DR version for those that can't be bothered.


Yeah, I know Robby is just being his typical smart ass self here, but I'm gonna address this one practically.

No, "negative sizes" have been a thing for awhile, and this is part of the problem for girls and women.

http://www.thisisinsider.com/same-dress-different-sizes-body-positivity-2017-6

How the hell are women supposed to know if they're big/small skinny/tall when women's sizes are completely arbitrary.

I know I'm "fat" when I need 40" pants, and "skinny" when I can squeeze my ass in those 36" ones. Women don't have that kind of luxury. It's also why they take so damn long trying on clothes, sizing means nothing to them.

I really miss the old UMD, it used to be fun here. Now it mostly seems to be filled with hate and back stabbing and lots of very strong opinions, and it seems that's mainly because people want to make money from every little thing on here. What happened to people enjoying getting messy and posting pictires because others were in to it too.

I really think a lot of people on here need to grow up and stop being so nasty. This all started because someone wanted a bit of feedback on perhaps using us sized models and now look at it.

I'm off for a slice of cake, a glass of champagne and some freindly chit chat with Mrs Bee.

What messymatt said +1

Liking plus size (a rather flexible definition, ranging between, say a size 12 and someone huge) is purely a sexual preference. The fact that one type of model turns you on and another one does not is in no way discriminatory.

Each to their own, enjoy what you find sexy

no attitude. im just gonna do what you told me to do.....

To be clear, I was talking about this thread, not you. You've never given me any attitude.

MM

People will always have strong opinions on any site, and in the past it's been 10 times worse. The bad thing is that when this does happen, it seems to be all that people remember and dwell on, and upon any disagreement they immediately reminisce about the old days. Trust me, overall it is better than it's ever been.

MM

Thanks! I think Messmaster and Mrs. Bee explained what I was saying admirably. I didn't want a flame war, I wasn't expecting people to so strongly want to defend giving people #$%^& about their appearance.

Have a preference, sure, answer the poll. I did! There's no guilt in that. I have strong preferences with regard to models. But I don't say things that could discourage the other models that someone else might enjoy seeing, or more importantly, models that have the right to share their fetish because it makes them happy. Incidentally, as Jayce actually said, you can choose not to start anything, by scrolling by.

I take that to mean scrolling by images/threads that have no interest to you without complaint, not scrolling past someone putting others down or parsing what is and is not acceptable.

Incidentally, last I checked the poll, there was lots of love for plus-sized girls. It was the very specific classification of bodies and the quasi-medical language that creates an uncomfortable environment for many. One thing is certain--no plus-sized models are coming here to hear medical advice from the members. I think the problem here is that some people forget the models are real people with feelings, or just don't care how they make people they aren't attracted to feel.

Thanks again to Mrs.Bee and Messmaster for the skillful clarification.

Body shaming sucks.

I bet if I hadn't been body shamed all my life, I'd feel comfortable being WAY more assertive with my opinions on here.

Clinical obesity is unhealthy, but the thread was about BBW's, who are not necessarily obese. Of course it's natural to assume a 400-pound person is probably unhealthy. But if you're thinking 400 lbs is a BBW, and I'm thinking that just love handles makes a BBW, then if you're saying BBW's are clinically obese it makes it sound like you're fat-shaming every girl for having a few pounds, even though you're not.

Aint nothing wrong with a plus-sized model. To me, it is more important that they are having fun and enjoying themselves than it is what their body type is. We have too much body shaming in society and too many things trying to dictate how women should look. We don't need that here. That is the same with the men. They don't need to have wash board abs and a 14 inch dick. They just need to be enjoying themselves. Life is far too short to deal with hate and stereotypes.

OMG, what a can of worms!!!!

Can't people just accept that we all like different things - each to their own.

I had an idea some years ago to have a BBW specific wam site, and with help from a then producer here in the UK, brought out BB-WAM. We released a few vids with the stunning Catrina Darkangel and myself playing silly games & getting gunged. It was a small success but I couldn't get plus sized ladies to participate - mainly because they didn't feel they were attractive enough (that's what years of media brainwashing and baody-shaming does for confidence!!) So, alas the site dissolved. I still splosh and run events every now and then, as well as attending splunches when I can.

I think it is very "niche within niche" to want more BBW wam/sploshing, but have to agree that it's how someone reacts to the sploshing that makes a film worthwhile, not just how they look. Surely someone's enthusiasm for getting trashed is far greater turn on than being a size 0 dolly bird who clearly hasn't a clue or hates what is being done to her??!!

Yes I am fat, yes I have a few health issues (under control, which could just as easliy happen to a thin person) I love my life and what I do. If you don't like it, don't watch it!!

*Just sayin' - I know a few uk ladies who aren't exactly skinny who are ever popular and often Wammers of the Day - go figure!!!

Peace, love n pies y'all xxx

You are not a freaking doctor, so, no, you don't get to just diagnose someone as "obese" by just looking at them with your utterly untrained eye. Secondly, this whole thread had SWEET FUCKALL to do with health!

STOP TRYING TO PLAY DOCTOR.

My 2 cents worth, I really like BBW women, doesn't matter to me as long as they are clean, thin or thick, as long as they like pies, I'll enjoy them all

I didn't catch the poll before it closed, but tally me up as another plus-sized model lover.