Given the large number of WAMers based in the UK, I was wondering if I could get your opinions on whether you wish to remain in the EU and remain Merkel's Ostarbeiters ('foreign workers') or if you wanted Britain to break free of the EU and assert the right to govern yourselves???

Well that poll's wording wasn't biased at all

I'll bite: I am remain because I have spent the last 4 months researching all the arguments as this is the most important vote we will ever have!

I found that the leave arguments are pretty much lies/half truths/fiddled stats that don't hold up to scrutiny.

350m/week? Nope, its 190m and we get more than that back in subsidies. Also, Johnson, Farage and Gove all want to privatise the NHS so it was never going to be spent on the NHS.

Immigration? Can't do anything about it if you want to deal with the EU, written into the rules that free movement is a must.

Govern ourselves? We do. The EU is made up of elected MEPs, we have 70+ of the 700 which is a disproportionately large number. All of the other parts are made up of equal representatives. any law that effects a country has to be voted on by their own government, if it is a blanket law (fishing quotas) then it is just in the EU. (Farage went to 1 of the 40+ meetings for fishing quotas yet claims to be for the fishermen..?). The only un-elected representatives we should worry about is the House of Lords.

We are better off in as we get a lot of benefits, out we would still have to pay the same amount, get fewer benefits and have no security if things went wrong.

A lot of the people (but certainly not all) I have met are leave because they are xenophobic/closet xenophobic or "remember a by-gone age" which was a very different time. I have heard arguments that effect certain businesses/people and they are right to vote out, but mostly I worry about how far right my country is going. More people are choosing hate over love, I blame Murdoch for this.

I have no problem with how people vote, I love the democratic process, but I hate the fact we are lied to (on both sides) by politicians seeking power. Boris and Gove are using this as an excuse to get to be PM, hopefully there will be a rather extreme re-shuffle after this.

Would I want a United states of Europe? Yes. I long for a world with no borders and 1 currency.

If I offend with this post then please remember being offended means nothing and good for you to be passionate about politics; now go and vote to show me how wrong I am.

All I know is that if we leave then so will I, taking my 2 degrees and Nobel Prize winning arse with me.

(ok, I only worked on the Nobel prize project, but my name is on the paper dammit ).

P.s. I will not get into a debate, these are my thoughts, yours can be yours but I will not argue any case as it is up to you to make up your mind.

We now live in a post factual democracy.

Gove said "The British people are sick of experts".


He's right, we are now into post intellectualism. The time of simplistic thinking governed by instinctual emotion - born of lazy brains frustrated by complicated subjects that need logical thinking.

It's arrived in the U.S a while back, but took the UK down first.

We are fucked.

So is this vote more important than the vote that got you lot into the EU in the first place? Or perhaps the one that kept you out of the Eurozone? Or perhaps the one that kept Scotland in the UK?

The REASON society no longer trusts "experts" (aka. is "sick of experts") is because there are innumerable examples of these "experts" deliberately misleading (lying) to the public for what are later found to be clearly politically motivated reasons and using their status as "experts" and/or holders of "doctorates" to aggressively silence skeptics (who turn out to be correct) and propagate their untruth/half-truth.

One example of this (and I can provide MANY more when time allows) is the 'Sixth Mass Extinction' which 'experts' tell us humans are causing. The 'Sixth Mass Extinction' MYTH/LIE is supported by legions of people with PHD's who are alleged to be "experts" (and have pronounced 'anti-development' agendas) who claim that humans causing a 'Mass Extinction Event' on par with the previous five 'mass extinction events' on Earth, including the one that wiped out the dinosaurs, and that the only way to 'save the Earth' is to essentially stop human progress.

Two (heavily manipulated) figures commonly cited by this group are A.) That 99.9% of the species that ever existed on Earth are extinct and B.) Species are going extinct at a faster rate then they did during the extinction of the dinosaurs.

To quote Penn & Teller, both of these figures are "Bullsh!t", but they are believed because these lies are spoken by "experts".

Untruth (lie) A; The 99.9% figure was created by tallying all the known species that went extinct in Earths previous five mass extinctions, species that are ESTIMATED to have existed (but never discovered) that went extinct during the previous five mass extinctions, known and 'estimated' species that went extinct since the last mass extinction but BEFORE the arrival of man, species known and 'estimated' that went extinct for natural reasons during the time of man, a large number of insects that are constantly mutating/evolving and hitting evolutionary 'dead-ends' and a VERY SMALL number of species that went extinct as a result of man's actions.

So while these 'experts' blame humans for the 'Sixth Mass Extinction' their extinction figure is primarily composed of species that went extinct BEFORE humans existed. However, these "experts" never mention this "inconvenient fact" and count on their status as "experts" to prevent such questions from being raised.

Untruth (lie) B; While the "experts" supporting the 'Sixth Mass Extinction' claim use "estimated species" to produce their "99.9%" figure, they (conveniently) forget about these to create their "fastest rate of extinction" claim. Since only bones fossilize, and only under very specific circumstances, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of species that existed prior to the last five mass extinctions are undiscovered, especially insects (which have no bones and) which comprise the VAST MAJORITY of the species on Earth.

What the "experts" pushing this theory do to create their "rate of extinction" claim is to only count the rate at which KNOWN species died out during previous extinctions and then count BOTH known and undiscovered species to determine the current rate of species loss which is VERY disingenuous, especially when considering the reason why most "undiscovered species" go extinct.

New insect species are constantly forming as small groups of insect breeding populations develop and propagate small mutations. The VAST MAJORITY of the time, these 'small mutations' make the insects LESS FIT then their parent species. As a result, these populations of "new species" exist as long as they remain isolated from the majority of their parent species. Such isolation is usually very temporary and thee 'new species' die out when they re-encounter the "fitter" members of their species and are out-competed or bred out of existence. Due to insect reproductive cycles, this could occur entirely within a week and with NO human interaction. Yet a "species" still went extinct.

This has been observed in captive populations of insects and that data has been extrapolated onto real-world populations.

Yet A.) IF this is occurring it is a NATURAL phenomenon and an essential part of EVOLUTION, B.) there's no definitive proof that these extinctions are occurring, and C.) the loss of a 'less-fit' variant of an existing species to a 'more-fit' variant of the same original species DOES NOT result in a loss of biodiversity since a new variant replaced an old one, or failed to.

Despite the fact their the "facts" supporting the 'Six Mass Extinction' claim have been demonstrated to be HIGHLY MANIPULATED (to the point of being UNTRUE/LIES), "experts" continue to push this theory onto the public by counting on the fact that MOST of the public does not have the time to research their claims and by counting on their status as "experts" to make their claims seem believable.

Furthermore, politicians continue to fund these "experts" because this false claim can be used by those politicians to justify tighter environmental regulations which are themselves nothing more then vehicles by which politicians can exercise most control over the lives of citizens.

While this is only ONE of the false claims (LIES) still being made by "experts" there are MANY MORE. However, I estimate that most of your eyes have already glazed over because MOST people don't have the time to examine methodologies. This is why they initially rely on "experts" but after discovering multiple examples of incidents where these "experts" deliberately mislead the public to support of political cause (usually Statism, which is also providing them with grants/funding/young 'research-assistants') the public STOPS BELIEVING these "experts"....

No myths about the result of the EU membership vote though - the pound has gone through the floor, the markets are in chaos, the UK's lost it's triple-A credit rating and there are rising demands for a second Scottish independence referendum. Question is whether things will settle, or the financial chaos will continue. Winter is coming, and all that.

UK-based WAM producers actually benefit from this in the short term though, because the international WAM erotica market is priced in US dollars, the collapse of the pound means we make slightly more per sale than we used to. Of course that will soon be wiped out by the rising cost of fuel in coming weeks, given oil is also priced in US dollars.

I voted out and am cautiously optimistic of our future. The question now is will the EU bite it's nose off to spite it's face given the demands across the EU for more referenda I think probably not

It's all down to what you feel is best long-term, not short-term. Yes, the markets will be in chaos for a few days because they don't like uncertainty rather than because they think the country is f*cked. It doesn't stop being the fifth largest economy overnight.

I voted out because I don't like centralised, undemocratic and unrepresentative governments. Sure our electoral system isn't great in the UK, but if we don't like the government we can change it (for what good that does). The vast majority of EU legislation is created by unelected commissioners or civil servants where we had no recourse to getting rid of them... until now.

Essentially the country will be divided for some time, that was going to happen either way. Some will demand the vote isn't followed through, some will decide we have to make the best of it and pull together as a country in a new vision of the future. It won't be easy, it won't be pretty, but like the recessions, conflicts and hardships we've been through before we'll come through this, hopefully more prosperous, democratic and in control of our own destiny.

Congratulations Britons!!!!

Once again YOU ARE FREE!!!!!

Slight change of plan; I will wait for the U.S. elections first. I was thinking Canada but if Trump gets in I am calling Elon Musk and getting a 1-way trip to Mars!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XKJ2mcdVmQ

An amazing post-Brexit analysis video;

This..100% this

People who have been shafted for the past 6 years by the political decision to slash support to the poorest and most desperate in the name of austerity, are then systematically encouraged to blame and hate 'johnny foreigner' for their awful situation. Desperate for things to improve, but fed daily lies and propaganda bythe right wing press, they blame all their woes on immigrants and hark back to the days of empire.

The problems that will occur when these desperate people realise immigration wasn't the problem, that even if we decide to cut off our nose to spite our face and not reach any free trade agreement with europe, so we can reduce the no of immigrants, it won't lead to any more money for those who need it most, because the decisions taken to slash the state to make it like the USA are political ones., will be awful. If you like to the dispossessed and desperate and stir them up and then actually make things worse...that could get very very nasty.

The Tories have had 6 years when they could have invested more in the NHS, and to help support those at the bottom. Even if this fake pot of gold existed, as Farage correctly said yesterday morning, they have no intention of actually using it for the NHS. Most of the people who came up with that campaign slogan have written of their desire to move to privatised healthcare ffs.

Catchy slogans about immigrants, and about the EU being undemocratic and unelected (hello house of lords) have defeated the facts

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/i-want-my-country-back

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/welcome-to-the-void-referendum-result-brexit

1. If someone is not telling the truth they are an expert.

2. If you don't have the time to examine methodologies or to research a subject YOU DON'T FUCKING VOTE BASED ON NO KNOWLEDGE.

We are in age were everyone has to have fucking opinion on fucking everything. Everyone has to think they know everything, s they do a two minute fucking web search and boom, they have their opinion. Or it's there mate down the pub or what their parents believe or what the fuck ever.


For some reason it's not OK anymore to not have an opinion.


Look at the gun control debate in the U.S. I don't give a fuck what your opinion is, but I spent an hour yesterday reading about why the U.S needs to ban automatic weapons then an hour talking with a group of people that think we need to ban automatic weapons in the U.S.


Guess what?

Go on... guess.





Everyone has a super strong black or white reason America has mass shootings, but no one seems to know shit about sociology or gun laws and culture in the U.S.

It's fucking insanity, and it is indeed, just one example.


Do you know what I do if I don't have enough information to form an opinion or to make an informed vote with?

I don't have an opinion and I don't vote on the subject...

I'll just leave this here.



A +250% spike in people using the search "what happens if we leave the EU" AFTER the voting closed...



https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=remain%2C%20leave&geo=GB&date=now%201-H&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B7

Couldn't have said it better myself! I've argued with so many "get rid of the immigrant" idiots!

That man is such a hateful piece of shit!

A lot of people are still upset about it but here at the Hall we think we should go the whole hog, never mind back to a fictional 1950s, let's go back to the 1850s, and re-establish the Empire!

Roll it all the way back to 1750 and you won't have to take any lip from Mr. New Jersey!

It would be morally/philosophically inconsistent to recognize the right of the British People to live free, not dominated by the foreign entity that is the EU, while failing to recognize the right of the American People to live free, not dominated by whatever inbred is currently at the head of the House of Hanover (it was George III when we departed)*.


*BTW; The House of Hanover is not the house from which the current British Royal Family hails, so (correctly) pointing out that the House of Hanover had an inbreeding issue is not an insult to present-day Englanders....

Oh, awesome! Will we bring back slavery and institutionalised racism?


Because it was such a better time back then...

I suspect you may be confusing the United Kingdom with the United States here. Slavery had been abolished by the 1850s in the Empire, it was the Americans who had carried on with it.

People: Do not feed the ill-informed troll that is illgetu....

The video is of a known racist and anti-feminist that is on the record as wanting to deport all muslims and says that women who are drunk can't be raped.

Using pictures and memes is not a way to argue.

Saying "you are now free" shows how little he know of freedom and how much we have.

Think the EU was all controlling when we were in it shows a lack of understanding of how controlling they will be now we are out of it (i.e. we had 80% success at changing laws when we were in the EU due to our power, now out we have 0 MEPS and no power thus MUST abide by their laws, in which we now have no say.)

The "will of the people"...look at the internet, many leave people are regretting their decision as it was a protest vote, and others now realise they have been lied too. A second referendum would swing the other way.

All Illgetu... is sprouting is BS speech that comes from a place that sounds like nationalist pride but has no economic backing.

This type of troll thrives on attention. Ignore him, he will leave.

The people are asking for just that. It would be cool if the following petition were to get more votes than "stay" votes in the referendum:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

Also for a vote to keep the little remaining honesty and integrity left in British politics:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/a-vote-of-confidence-in-jeremy-corbyn-after-brexit

Alas that petition can only work for future referendums. It would have to have been completed and talked about before thursday. We will not get a new vote that way...though Sturgen 'might' be able to force one...

As for Corbyn, I am not a labour supporter, though I like him I have no idea who would make a good leader for you guys. good luck though, I hope you stick together more than the tories at the mo!

I think the idea right now is more to put pressure on the government and remind them what the will of the people actually is.
These people are the vast majority of the resident population and include: the young; spouses of British citizens who are being denied citizenship; EU residents; those that believed Farage when he said claims about the economy tanking were scaremongering; those that believed claims that money would be saved and it would go on the NHS; etc....

You mean the petition that is being hammered by 4chan?
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/26/questions-raised-3m-remain-petition-activists-encourage-foreign-signatories/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

"Abolished"


hahahahahahahaha

If you get to revote on votes until you get "the will of the people" you don't have democracy. That's not the will of the people. That's redoing things until you get a certain result.

Not democracy.