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"The Sploshcars 2024 (28th September 13:00-15:30 Whitechapel, London UK)"
Love you, tooSaturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
MessyBratz said: manufactured consent
Out of curiosity, what is manufactured consent in this context? I Googled it but all I got was references to Chomsky and high level "state takes power over citizens" pholosophical stuff, even when I added "in a fetish context" to the search. I'm very big on informed consent, every time we start a new model I make sure they fully understand this is fetifsh work, it's also my personal fetish, customers buy it to wank to, and are they fully comfortable with that, before they ever travel up here. But I'm not sure what manufacturted consent would be? Genuinely curious as I suspect it's something I need to know about.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
MessyBratz said:
Let's offer free s*** to an event that has been conceived on a bunch of lies and manufactured consent with no plan in place to ensure the safety of attendees! Seems a logical step
GungeTankBabes said:
Rather than an awards ceremony which seems to have caused so much bitterness I'd like to suggest something different along the lines of what we used to do with Splunches. If somebody was able to source a suitable venue, ideally a discreet isolated outdoor garden or something similar and is also prepared to get involved in organising I'd be happy to do something with the Gunge Tank and Dunk Tank. In the past we've used the Dunk with water to clean up in.
Rather than an awards ceremony which seems to have caused so much bitterness I'd like to suggest something different along the lines of what we used to do with Splunches. If somebody was able to source a suitable venue, ideally a discreet isolated outdoor garden or something similar and is also prepared to get involved in organising I'd be happy to do something with the Gunge Tank and Dunk Tank. In the past we've used the Dunk with water to clean up in.
Let's offer free s*** to an event that has been conceived on a bunch of lies and manufactured consent with no plan in place to ensure the safety of attendees! Seems a logical step
The point is a new event sometime in the future organised by others as a consolation for this debarcle not for this event. You've totally missed the point.
www.gungetankbabes.com
Silver_sea said: Honestly Jim, just cancel the event.
Right now there is too much animosity, confusion and folks pulling out that I imagine you don't even have one anymore anyway.
I suggest take some time: get things sorted, offer an apology and be transparent about everything. Give it time, then set up another one which is 'all you' and work with producers and models and be totally honest about things. People want events like this and are willing to forgive honest mistakes. It's difficult, but a bit of bravery and humility, this can still be turned around at a later date.
Just don't delete this thread or you may as well delete your account!
Right now there is too much animosity, confusion and folks pulling out that I imagine you don't even have one anymore anyway.
I suggest take some time: get things sorted, offer an apology and be transparent about everything. Give it time, then set up another one which is 'all you' and work with producers and models and be totally honest about things. People want events like this and are willing to forgive honest mistakes. It's difficult, but a bit of bravery and humility, this can still be turned around at a later date.
Just don't delete this thread or you may as well delete your account!
I think the better option for the community would be some kind of scaled-back event (maybe like a vanilla non-messy splunch) held by a new organiser in a similar area at a similar time on the same day. It would be a shame for people who have already booked travel/hotels etc to lose out completely as a result of Jim's actions.
This will be much easier to organise as all you would need is a private area in a pub for a few hours. No awards, no mess at the event - but a chance to meet people in the community in a public space, held by a responsible individual/group (ie someone who has not been manipulative or dishonest). This event could potentially be something akin to what Pies and Pints previously was
Teaching bratty models a messy lesson since 2014
DungeonMasterOne said:
Out of curiosity, what is manufactured consent in this context? I Googled it but all I got was references to Chomsky and high level "state takes power over citizens" pholosophical stuff, even when I added "in a fetish context" to the search. I'm very big on informed consent, every time we start a new model I make sure they fully understand this is fetifsh work, it's also my personal fetish, customers buy it to wank to, and are they fully comfortable with that, before they ever travel up here. But I'm not sure what manufacturted consent would be? Genuinely curious as I suspect it's something I need to know about.
MessyBratz said: manufactured consent
Out of curiosity, what is manufactured consent in this context? I Googled it but all I got was references to Chomsky and high level "state takes power over citizens" pholosophical stuff, even when I added "in a fetish context" to the search. I'm very big on informed consent, every time we start a new model I make sure they fully understand this is fetifsh work, it's also my personal fetish, customers buy it to wank to, and are they fully comfortable with that, before they ever travel up here. But I'm not sure what manufacturted consent would be? Genuinely curious as I suspect it's something I need to know about.
In this context manufactured consent it referring to how Jim has manipulated Penny giving him the go-ahead to run an awards ceremony similar to Messtival into her giving up the entire Messtival event for this and future years. He has then used this to gain support from the community for the event. In a broader sense it is effectively turning a "you can do x" into "you can do what you like"
Teaching bratty models a messy lesson since 2014
GungeTankBabes said:
The point is a new event sometime in the future organised by others as a consolation for this debarcle not for this event. You've totally missed the point.
MessyBratz said:
Let's offer free s*** to an event that has been conceived on a bunch of lies and manufactured consent with no plan in place to ensure the safety of attendees! Seems a logical step
GungeTankBabes said:
Rather than an awards ceremony which seems to have caused so much bitterness I'd like to suggest something different along the lines of what we used to do with Splunches. If somebody was able to source a suitable venue, ideally a discreet isolated outdoor garden or something similar and is also prepared to get involved in organising I'd be happy to do something with the Gunge Tank and Dunk Tank. In the past we've used the Dunk with water to clean up in.
Rather than an awards ceremony which seems to have caused so much bitterness I'd like to suggest something different along the lines of what we used to do with Splunches. If somebody was able to source a suitable venue, ideally a discreet isolated outdoor garden or something similar and is also prepared to get involved in organising I'd be happy to do something with the Gunge Tank and Dunk Tank. In the past we've used the Dunk with water to clean up in.
Let's offer free s*** to an event that has been conceived on a bunch of lies and manufactured consent with no plan in place to ensure the safety of attendees! Seems a logical step
The point is a new event sometime in the future organised by others as a consolation for this debarcle not for this event. You've totally missed the point.
My apologies - that makes a lot more sense.
I think a consolation event on the day may be better in the short term (which given this was a central London venue and only 10 days would probably be too short notice to find a suitable venue complete with changing facilities etc for the current date/time (and bordering on being too cold for an outdoor messy event too I would imagine?). I'm sure a group of producers could put something bigger together at a later date or even Penny and her team once she is feeling better
Teaching bratty models a messy lesson since 2014
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
MessyBratz said:
In this context manufactured consent it referring to how Jim has manipulated Penny giving him the go-ahead to run an awards ceremony similar to Messtival into her giving up the entire Messtival event for this and future years. He has then used this to gain support from the community for the event. In a broader sense it is effectively turning a "you can do x" into "you can do what you like"
DungeonMasterOne said:
Out of curiosity, what is manufactured consent in this context? I Googled it but all I got was references to Chomsky and high level "state takes power over citizens" pholosophical stuff, even when I added "in a fetish context" to the search. I'm very big on informed consent, every time we start a new model I make sure they fully understand this is fetifsh work, it's also my personal fetish, customers buy it to wank to, and are they fully comfortable with that, before they ever travel up here. But I'm not sure what manufacturted consent would be? Genuinely curious as I suspect it's something I need to know about.
MessyBratz said: manufactured consent
Out of curiosity, what is manufactured consent in this context? I Googled it but all I got was references to Chomsky and high level "state takes power over citizens" pholosophical stuff, even when I added "in a fetish context" to the search. I'm very big on informed consent, every time we start a new model I make sure they fully understand this is fetifsh work, it's also my personal fetish, customers buy it to wank to, and are they fully comfortable with that, before they ever travel up here. But I'm not sure what manufacturted consent would be? Genuinely curious as I suspect it's something I need to know about.
In this context manufactured consent it referring to how Jim has manipulated Penny giving him the go-ahead to run an awards ceremony similar to Messtival into her giving up the entire Messtival event for this and future years. He has then used this to gain support from the community for the event. In a broader sense it is effectively turning a "you can do x" into "you can do what you like"
Aha - gotcha. I thought it referred to the people who volunteered to take part / present / get messy. Now I understand, thanks for the explanation.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
DungeonMasterOne said:
Aha - gotcha. I thought it referred to the people who volunteered to take part / present / get messy. Now I understand, thanks for the explanation.
MessyBratz said:
In this context manufactured consent it referring to how Jim has manipulated Penny giving him the go-ahead to run an awards ceremony similar to Messtival into her giving up the entire Messtival event for this and future years. He has then used this to gain support from the community for the event. In a broader sense it is effectively turning a "you can do x" into "you can do what you like"
DungeonMasterOne said:
Out of curiosity, what is manufactured consent in this context? I Googled it but all I got was references to Chomsky and high level "state takes power over citizens" pholosophical stuff, even when I added "in a fetish context" to the search. I'm very big on informed consent, every time we start a new model I make sure they fully understand this is fetifsh work, it's also my personal fetish, customers buy it to wank to, and are they fully comfortable with that, before they ever travel up here. But I'm not sure what manufacturted consent would be? Genuinely curious as I suspect it's something I need to know about.
MessyBratz said: manufactured consent
Out of curiosity, what is manufactured consent in this context? I Googled it but all I got was references to Chomsky and high level "state takes power over citizens" pholosophical stuff, even when I added "in a fetish context" to the search. I'm very big on informed consent, every time we start a new model I make sure they fully understand this is fetifsh work, it's also my personal fetish, customers buy it to wank to, and are they fully comfortable with that, before they ever travel up here. But I'm not sure what manufacturted consent would be? Genuinely curious as I suspect it's something I need to know about.
In this context manufactured consent it referring to how Jim has manipulated Penny giving him the go-ahead to run an awards ceremony similar to Messtival into her giving up the entire Messtival event for this and future years. He has then used this to gain support from the community for the event. In a broader sense it is effectively turning a "you can do x" into "you can do what you like"
Aha - gotcha. I thought it referred to the people who volunteered to take part / present / get messy. Now I understand, thanks for the explanation.
I think the people who volunteered to take part/present etc have given consent for what they were signing up to - however obviously this was not informed consent as they didn't know the venue had no shower/changing facilities and they didn't realise that this was more of a splunch than "Messtival"
Teaching bratty models a messy lesson since 2014
I saw Bri deleted her post yesterday:
https://umd.net/forums/messitval
> Reason: No longer going ahead
I wanted to wait a day before posting this in case Bri or Jim would give an update, but there has been no update. I was expecting Bri's post to either be modified to say that she is hosting Sploshcars, or a new post, reply, or tweet saying that she is or is not hosting the Sploshcars event.
Bri's tweet was not deleted and still has a Messtival poster:
https://x.com/bsmessybakery/status/1834190490809372698/
[Edit: This tweet was deleted.]
Is Bri still hosting this Sploshcars event?
(I am in the US and have no interest in attending. I just wanted to contribute the observation that I made that Bri had deleted her post announcing that she was hosting the event. Maybe attendees are wondering the same thing.)
https://umd.net/forums/messitval
> Reason: No longer going ahead
I wanted to wait a day before posting this in case Bri or Jim would give an update, but there has been no update. I was expecting Bri's post to either be modified to say that she is hosting Sploshcars, or a new post, reply, or tweet saying that she is or is not hosting the Sploshcars event.
Bri's tweet was not deleted and still has a Messtival poster:
https://x.com/bsmessybakery/status/1834190490809372698/
[Edit: This tweet was deleted.]
Is Bri still hosting this Sploshcars event?
(I am in the US and have no interest in attending. I just wanted to contribute the observation that I made that Bri had deleted her post announcing that she was hosting the event. Maybe attendees are wondering the same thing.)
EnglishGent said: Isn't the middle post the same date as the screen shot was taken (19th July)?
I believe it was the same day. It was a busy day for Jim.
I'm glad Jim's keeping everyone updated and we're not having to play detective on UMD or anything.
If Bri is out - is this even going ahead, either as Sploshcars or whatever name it needs to be changed to next? I appreciate there's been a lot of discourse around this, but it really seems like there's still a huge amount to be sorted out, that might not have come to light had this whole branding usage issue came up - we should prob thank Penny and the Messtival team for bringing this to light!
Is the event actually able to go ahead at this point - are showers sorted, is everything that needs to be in place, in place, etc? I appreciate there's good intentions here, but is that enough right now to make a safe splunch for folks?
If Bri is out - is this even going ahead, either as Sploshcars or whatever name it needs to be changed to next? I appreciate there's been a lot of discourse around this, but it really seems like there's still a huge amount to be sorted out, that might not have come to light had this whole branding usage issue came up - we should prob thank Penny and the Messtival team for bringing this to light!
Is the event actually able to go ahead at this point - are showers sorted, is everything that needs to be in place, in place, etc? I appreciate there's good intentions here, but is that enough right now to make a safe splunch for folks?
DungeonMasterOne said:
Out of curiosity, what is manufactured consent in this context?
Out of curiosity, what is manufactured consent in this context?
How I'd read it - and how explained.
It might not be the right term - but I felt in two ways
1) that folk agreed to things they may not have done if they had been aware this wasn't a Messtival event.
2) that it feels like the original 'go for it' blessing has been doing a lot of heavy lifting
So to return to the exchange "any objections to me doing something similar with a different name" being met with a "go for it" - aside from it being the same name, I wouldn't have taken "similar" to mean lifting things verbatim
and that the whole presentation was misleading, whether intentional or not, and this got a lot of buy in from folk who may have been more hesitant, or at least ask questions.
Because I feel like I'm being Columbo here ("just one more thing...")
And it's just stupid shit like - is the venue you are using aware you're using stuff from film which hasn't gone through the BBFC and are they ok with this, especially as some footage might not pass for a 18.
This doesn't mean they cannot permit it, but they have to at least be aware.
I'm still perplexed by the whole messy play because that is an insurance nightmare and for a 2 1/2 hour free entry event doesn't seem worth it - and we still haven't even got how this is logically possible when trying to do 27 categories.
Like, 27 categories in 2 1/2 hours is 6 mins per category, and if you're showing 90 second trailers of 3 finalists in each category that is 4 1/2 minutes which gives just 90 seconds to announce the category, announce the winner and have the acceptance speech.
And maybe this is something that before now someone might have said "are you sure this format is a good idea" but maybe everyone thought it was all too good to be true.
I know, alas, I did.
we should prob thank Penny and the Messtival team for bringing this to light!
this is likely to be the case
cos, if it either (a) gets pulled (b) goes ahead but patches a load of failings then it's much better than jumping onto something beset with issues folk missed.
It seems that Jim has been somewhat naive in this whole affair. Perhaps initially he thought he had Penny's consent to use the name, but when the truth of that emerged, he was a bit slow to react. It is generous of him to put on a free event, but clearly he hadn't thought through the requirements of the venue in terms of facilities and perhaps other things to do with such an event.
The question of third party insurance possibly didn't even occure to him as it was a free attendance event. Nonetheless in my opinion some on here have been uneccesarily harsh on him, attributing all sorts of ulterior motives to him when his plan was to do something for the community.
We have lost members here on other occasions when a few get so wound up over a mistake and take the crtiticism too far.
Hands up anyone here who has not erred. - anyone?
The question of third party insurance possibly didn't even occure to him as it was a free attendance event. Nonetheless in my opinion some on here have been uneccesarily harsh on him, attributing all sorts of ulterior motives to him when his plan was to do something for the community.
We have lost members here on other occasions when a few get so wound up over a mistake and take the crtiticism too far.
Hands up anyone here who has not erred. - anyone?
Topcattopone said: It seems that Jim has been somewhat naive in this whole affair. Perhaps initially he thought he had Penny's consent to use the name, but when the truth of that emerged, he was a bit slow to react. It is generous of him to put on a free event, but clearly he hadn't thought through the requirements of the venue in terms of facilities and perhaps other things to do with such an event.
The question of third party insurance possibly didn't even occure to him as it was a free attendance event. Nonetheless in my opinion some on here have been uneccesarily harsh on him, attributing all sorts of ulterior motives to him when his plan was to do something for the community.
We have lost members here on other occasions when a few get so wound up over a mistake and take the crtiticism too far.
Hands up anyone here who has not erred. - anyone?
The question of third party insurance possibly didn't even occure to him as it was a free attendance event. Nonetheless in my opinion some on here have been uneccesarily harsh on him, attributing all sorts of ulterior motives to him when his plan was to do something for the community.
We have lost members here on other occasions when a few get so wound up over a mistake and take the crtiticism too far.
Hands up anyone here who has not erred. - anyone?
I completely appreciate that my tone has been firm however as a producer I feel that I owe a duty of care to all members of the community when I see something that is not right and potentially unsafe.
If nothing else this underlines why large-scale events should be ran and supported by the appropriate people. Small-scale local splunches without mess for a casual meet-up are one thing. A fully-fledged professional event on the scale of Messtival/London Splosh Games etc is a whole other ball game. If you are not au fait with running events then this should serve as a warning/learning lesson on exactly how NOT to do it.
You also raise concerns about potentially losing users on UMD as a result of a few people overreacting. I can't say for certain, however I think we can all agree that we would lose more users if (heaven forbid) something had happened at the event and these concerns had not been raised and people informed of the various potential pitfalls with the proposed event.
So far, the fact pattern is thus:
- On multiple occasions, Jim has posted personal ads asking for female members to get in touch with him - most of which have been met with little or no response.
- Jim posted in the forums asking what day people would prefer a "MASSIVE" event to be held
- Jim asked Penny to run an awards ceremony "akin to Messtival". A request she approved because he was clear it would not be "Messtival"
- Jim creates an event called Messtival and announces he has Penny's blessing and that it will be free this year and he plans to run it again if it is a success and charge for it. He states that he and his friends are funding the event
- Jim claims to have proof of Penny giving permission (presumably so nobody would question it)
- A 2.5 hour event is planned for an awards ceremony with 27 categories (each of which has 4.5minutes of trailers before a winner is to be announced) which also includes "chosen volunteers" getting messy. (side note - had any male volunteers been asked to participate?)
- Jim and his team book a venue which does not have shower or changing facilities for such an event. They have not provided any details surrounding the health and safety (or licensing considerations of hosting this in a cinema - as pointed out by others most of the content for the awards is likely to breach broadcasting regulations).
- Jim discusses the event with Bri and she is announced as host of Messtival - an event which she is led to believe has been blessed by Penny to be held.
- Messtival founders find out about the event and release a statement to that effect
- Jim issues a "statement" which offers little to no apology to the community or Messtival founders
- Jim ceases all contact with Messtival founders, including blocking (at least some of) them on most platforms.
- Jim makes a half-hearted effort to address concerns by changing the name of the event to mimic a continuation of another event previously advertised on UMD and adds some minor "NB" sections to the event page and promo stating that "the event has changed name and is not related to previous "Messtival" events
- Jim disappears from the forums along with his team and offers no answers to multiple questions/concerns which have been raised regarding the safety of this community
Teaching bratty models a messy lesson since 2014
Hey everyone, I hope everyone is ok?
I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet up until now. The reason i have been is due to me feeling very uncomfortable and sad about the discussions unfolding and being put in this situation after last week agreeing to host an event, and in all honesty, I was hoping that something could perhaps be solved and resolved to continue something for us all to celebrate & get together.
I'm not one to speak to much or air my feelings on social media to be honest, I usually just speak to the individuals myself and I have spoken with both Jim & Penny directly and I can confirm that both have not had any influence over my choice here nor is there any bad feelings or broken relationships. I would also like to point out I'm thankful to Jim for laying down his own cash for this event despite the current situation and my own feelings in this matter. I think we can all agree it was a kind gesture and im sad this has all happened like this.
I wasn't being paid for the event nor would I want to be, all I wanted was to be around our community and to celebrate & enjoy an afternoon together. I was so excited to host and very honoured to be nominated, again thank you
The whole thing for me personally reading the messages is really upsetting and I've been so stressed with it the last few days and feeling like I'm now in the middle. I've been made aware that 89 people have tickets and that has been on my mind massively and hence why I was hoping something could be sorted and I would attend and host for those 89 people, despite my own feelings on things.
It's my grandmas birthday on the 28th and I moved things around when I was asked to host as I was very much looking forward to such event. I was very clear that I would just be hosting and that was that and it was all under control by the organisers so left it as that, great I thought I get to have a fun afternoon with the community and then a lovely birthday evening with my dear Gran.
I would just like to point out that is no ill feelings between myself and Jim and also with penny and the messtival team there is no ill feelings what so ever with either of them and none towards me and that I am not taking sides with this decision, i just feel very stuck between something I had no involvement in and that it's not my place to be involved in the middle currently.
There is no bitter feelings towards jim personally, him as a person, but with regards to this event I feel better for my own mental health right now and things I have going on personally to step back from feeling like I'm in the middle of something which is becoming nothing what I initially thought it was going to be and I also would like to confirm that this is also not because I feel un safe at this event.
Unfortunately this for me personally has become a huge strain and with that a lot more stress to my everyday life so for that reason for my own mental health and a very heavy heart, I will be pulling out of this event.
I'm extremely sorry to those that are still perhaps attending and I hope you understand my reasons and to know it hasn't been easy for me to decide, hence why I have been quiet until now and sat hopeful.
Anyone that knows me or follows me knows that this community means the absolute world to me, I absolutely love our community and i respect everyone within it, even during conflict times, I always remain hopeful as a community we can pull together, but right now I feel there is far to much upset and anger. I truly hope as a community that something can be resolved along the way and that we do eventually get a day to celebrate one day but on a much more happier and positive circumstance and to all get together and I will be there with bells on!!!
I love you all so much and thank you for understanding.
Lots of love, hugs and splats always.
Bri (bsmessybakery)
X
I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet up until now. The reason i have been is due to me feeling very uncomfortable and sad about the discussions unfolding and being put in this situation after last week agreeing to host an event, and in all honesty, I was hoping that something could perhaps be solved and resolved to continue something for us all to celebrate & get together.
I'm not one to speak to much or air my feelings on social media to be honest, I usually just speak to the individuals myself and I have spoken with both Jim & Penny directly and I can confirm that both have not had any influence over my choice here nor is there any bad feelings or broken relationships. I would also like to point out I'm thankful to Jim for laying down his own cash for this event despite the current situation and my own feelings in this matter. I think we can all agree it was a kind gesture and im sad this has all happened like this.
I wasn't being paid for the event nor would I want to be, all I wanted was to be around our community and to celebrate & enjoy an afternoon together. I was so excited to host and very honoured to be nominated, again thank you
The whole thing for me personally reading the messages is really upsetting and I've been so stressed with it the last few days and feeling like I'm now in the middle. I've been made aware that 89 people have tickets and that has been on my mind massively and hence why I was hoping something could be sorted and I would attend and host for those 89 people, despite my own feelings on things.
It's my grandmas birthday on the 28th and I moved things around when I was asked to host as I was very much looking forward to such event. I was very clear that I would just be hosting and that was that and it was all under control by the organisers so left it as that, great I thought I get to have a fun afternoon with the community and then a lovely birthday evening with my dear Gran.
I would just like to point out that is no ill feelings between myself and Jim and also with penny and the messtival team there is no ill feelings what so ever with either of them and none towards me and that I am not taking sides with this decision, i just feel very stuck between something I had no involvement in and that it's not my place to be involved in the middle currently.
There is no bitter feelings towards jim personally, him as a person, but with regards to this event I feel better for my own mental health right now and things I have going on personally to step back from feeling like I'm in the middle of something which is becoming nothing what I initially thought it was going to be and I also would like to confirm that this is also not because I feel un safe at this event.
Unfortunately this for me personally has become a huge strain and with that a lot more stress to my everyday life so for that reason for my own mental health and a very heavy heart, I will be pulling out of this event.
I'm extremely sorry to those that are still perhaps attending and I hope you understand my reasons and to know it hasn't been easy for me to decide, hence why I have been quiet until now and sat hopeful.
Anyone that knows me or follows me knows that this community means the absolute world to me, I absolutely love our community and i respect everyone within it, even during conflict times, I always remain hopeful as a community we can pull together, but right now I feel there is far to much upset and anger. I truly hope as a community that something can be resolved along the way and that we do eventually get a day to celebrate one day but on a much more happier and positive circumstance and to all get together and I will be there with bells on!!!
I love you all so much and thank you for understanding.
Lots of love, hugs and splats always.
Bri (bsmessybakery)
X
Bri 💋
Bri, I 100% understand - I hope you have a wonderful day with your Gran.
I'm still overjoyed at someone having nominated me - I still don't feel I deserve it, let me do some more stuff first! - and some even voting for me. I don't wish to invalidate that genuine celebration of the community.
I've thought about this quite a bit, exchanged a couple DMs.
Something that may have been (at its most charitable reading) a genuine misunderstanding has been massively compounded by serious failures to communicate. Although the event's name has been changed, I had privately already rescinded my volunteering to get messy there, as my DMs did not personally give me cause for confidence about the event's organisation, or the way it has all been handled.
I had already booked travel and made arrangements for the rest of the weekend, including some meetings with some other people: those will still go ahead, as I will still be travelling to the general vicinity.
However, as far as attending this particular event? All this has significantly overshadowed my joy about it - it's bittersweet, at best, and that's just not how I want my weekend to go. So, I shall also not be attending this particular event.
I look forward to celebrating the best of the community on another occasion, and I'm sure that will come in the future.
I'm still overjoyed at someone having nominated me - I still don't feel I deserve it, let me do some more stuff first! - and some even voting for me. I don't wish to invalidate that genuine celebration of the community.
I've thought about this quite a bit, exchanged a couple DMs.
Something that may have been (at its most charitable reading) a genuine misunderstanding has been massively compounded by serious failures to communicate. Although the event's name has been changed, I had privately already rescinded my volunteering to get messy there, as my DMs did not personally give me cause for confidence about the event's organisation, or the way it has all been handled.
I had already booked travel and made arrangements for the rest of the weekend, including some meetings with some other people: those will still go ahead, as I will still be travelling to the general vicinity.
However, as far as attending this particular event? All this has significantly overshadowed my joy about it - it's bittersweet, at best, and that's just not how I want my weekend to go. So, I shall also not be attending this particular event.
I look forward to celebrating the best of the community on another occasion, and I'm sure that will come in the future.
Bri, you're an absolute gem. I'm sure everybody in the community respects your entirely reasonable decision. I hope you don't stress about that on top of the stress already caused. We luv ya.
As for the MessSploshTivalCars, I'm reminded of the brown M&Ms story. Apocryphal sure, but always instructive.
Van Halen, so the legend goes, used to put a particular request on their tour rider. It was nestled carefully inbetween all the vodka and caviar. A bowl of M&Ms, with all the brown ones taken out. When the rock press first heard of this, they mocked the band, thinking they were just demanding the most outrageous things they could. However, it was a calculated ruse. If Van Halen turned up at a venue and found brown M&Ms in the bowl, they knew that their rider hadn't been carefully followed. What else was wrong? Did everyone have a dressing room? Was there bus parking? Had the pyrotechnics been double-checked?
Jim, if you're reading this, I genuinely appreciate your intentions to create a fun, invigorating event for the community. I don't agree with the implications that you're trying to get close with models or be in any way creepy - that's reaching, and people should stop doing that.
But event organising is really, really complicated and hard. It's seven times as hard as you would ever expect when organising your first event. And the Messtival name confusion was the brown M&Ms in the bowl. There are a lot of things you should have nailed down more securely before going public. I'm sad you'll be out of pocket on this, but so will everyone who booked train tickets or hotel rooms.
That said, community members are organising their own meetups/small "splunches" and that's a nice thing to come out of this. It just could have been nicer.
[[LOUDEST SIGH IN THE UNIVERSE]]
As for the MessSploshTivalCars, I'm reminded of the brown M&Ms story. Apocryphal sure, but always instructive.
Van Halen, so the legend goes, used to put a particular request on their tour rider. It was nestled carefully inbetween all the vodka and caviar. A bowl of M&Ms, with all the brown ones taken out. When the rock press first heard of this, they mocked the band, thinking they were just demanding the most outrageous things they could. However, it was a calculated ruse. If Van Halen turned up at a venue and found brown M&Ms in the bowl, they knew that their rider hadn't been carefully followed. What else was wrong? Did everyone have a dressing room? Was there bus parking? Had the pyrotechnics been double-checked?
Jim, if you're reading this, I genuinely appreciate your intentions to create a fun, invigorating event for the community. I don't agree with the implications that you're trying to get close with models or be in any way creepy - that's reaching, and people should stop doing that.
But event organising is really, really complicated and hard. It's seven times as hard as you would ever expect when organising your first event. And the Messtival name confusion was the brown M&Ms in the bowl. There are a lot of things you should have nailed down more securely before going public. I'm sad you'll be out of pocket on this, but so will everyone who booked train tickets or hotel rooms.
That said, community members are organising their own meetups/small "splunches" and that's a nice thing to come out of this. It just could have been nicer.
[[LOUDEST SIGH IN THE UNIVERSE]]
bsmessybakery said: Hey everyone, I hope everyone is ok?
I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet up until now. The reason i have been is due to me feeling very uncomfortable and sad about the discussions unfolding and being put in this situation after last week agreeing to host an event, and in all honesty, I was hoping that something could perhaps be solved and resolved to continue something for us all to celebrate & get together.
I'm not one to speak to much or air my feelings on social media to be honest, I usually just speak to the individuals myself and I have spoken with both Jim & Penny directly and I can confirm that both have not had any influence over my choice here nor is there any bad feelings or broken relationships. I would also like to point out I'm thankful to Jim for laying down his own cash for this event despite the current situation and my own feelings in this matter. I think we can all agree it was a kind gesture and im sad this has all happened like this.
I wasn't being paid for the event nor would I want to be, all I wanted was to be around our community and to celebrate & enjoy an afternoon together. I was so excited to host and very honoured to be nominated, again thank you
The whole thing for me personally reading the messages is really upsetting and I've been so stressed with it the last few days and feeling like I'm now in the middle. I've been made aware that 89 people have tickets and that has been on my mind massively and hence why I was hoping something could be sorted and I would attend and host for those 89 people, despite my own feelings on things.
It's my grandmas birthday on the 28th and I moved things around when I was asked to host as I was very much looking forward to such event. I was very clear that I would just be hosting and that was that and it was all under control by the organisers so left it as that, great I thought I get to have a fun afternoon with the community and then a lovely birthday evening with my dear Gran.
I would just like to point out that is no ill feelings between myself and Jim and also with penny and the messtival team there is no ill feelings what so ever with either of them and none towards me and that I am not taking sides with this decision, i just feel very stuck between something I had no involvement in and that it's not my place to be involved in the middle currently.
There is no bitter feelings towards jim personally, him as a person, but with regards to this event I feel better for my own mental health right now and things I have going on personally to step back from feeling like I'm in the middle of something which is becoming nothing what I initially thought it was going to be and I also would like to confirm that this is also not because I feel un safe at this event.
Unfortunately this for me personally has become a huge strain and with that a lot more stress to my everyday life so for that reason for my own mental health and a very heavy heart, I will be pulling out of this event.
I'm extremely sorry to those that are still perhaps attending and I hope you understand my reasons and to know it hasn't been easy for me to decide, hence why I have been quiet until now and sat hopeful.
Anyone that knows me or follows me knows that this community means the absolute world to me, I absolutely love our community and i respect everyone within it, even during conflict times, I always remain hopeful as a community we can pull together, but right now I feel there is far to much upset and anger. I truly hope as a community that something can be resolved along the way and that we do eventually get a day to celebrate one day but on a much more happier and positive circumstance and to all get together and I will be there with bells on!!!
I love you all so much and thank you for understanding.
Lots of love, hugs and splats always.
Bri (bsmessybakery)
X
I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet up until now. The reason i have been is due to me feeling very uncomfortable and sad about the discussions unfolding and being put in this situation after last week agreeing to host an event, and in all honesty, I was hoping that something could perhaps be solved and resolved to continue something for us all to celebrate & get together.
I'm not one to speak to much or air my feelings on social media to be honest, I usually just speak to the individuals myself and I have spoken with both Jim & Penny directly and I can confirm that both have not had any influence over my choice here nor is there any bad feelings or broken relationships. I would also like to point out I'm thankful to Jim for laying down his own cash for this event despite the current situation and my own feelings in this matter. I think we can all agree it was a kind gesture and im sad this has all happened like this.
I wasn't being paid for the event nor would I want to be, all I wanted was to be around our community and to celebrate & enjoy an afternoon together. I was so excited to host and very honoured to be nominated, again thank you
The whole thing for me personally reading the messages is really upsetting and I've been so stressed with it the last few days and feeling like I'm now in the middle. I've been made aware that 89 people have tickets and that has been on my mind massively and hence why I was hoping something could be sorted and I would attend and host for those 89 people, despite my own feelings on things.
It's my grandmas birthday on the 28th and I moved things around when I was asked to host as I was very much looking forward to such event. I was very clear that I would just be hosting and that was that and it was all under control by the organisers so left it as that, great I thought I get to have a fun afternoon with the community and then a lovely birthday evening with my dear Gran.
I would just like to point out that is no ill feelings between myself and Jim and also with penny and the messtival team there is no ill feelings what so ever with either of them and none towards me and that I am not taking sides with this decision, i just feel very stuck between something I had no involvement in and that it's not my place to be involved in the middle currently.
There is no bitter feelings towards jim personally, him as a person, but with regards to this event I feel better for my own mental health right now and things I have going on personally to step back from feeling like I'm in the middle of something which is becoming nothing what I initially thought it was going to be and I also would like to confirm that this is also not because I feel un safe at this event.
Unfortunately this for me personally has become a huge strain and with that a lot more stress to my everyday life so for that reason for my own mental health and a very heavy heart, I will be pulling out of this event.
I'm extremely sorry to those that are still perhaps attending and I hope you understand my reasons and to know it hasn't been easy for me to decide, hence why I have been quiet until now and sat hopeful.
Anyone that knows me or follows me knows that this community means the absolute world to me, I absolutely love our community and i respect everyone within it, even during conflict times, I always remain hopeful as a community we can pull together, but right now I feel there is far to much upset and anger. I truly hope as a community that something can be resolved along the way and that we do eventually get a day to celebrate one day but on a much more happier and positive circumstance and to all get together and I will be there with bells on!!!
I love you all so much and thank you for understanding.
Lots of love, hugs and splats always.
Bri (bsmessybakery)
X
BriBri,
You don't need to apologise to anybody and stepping away from this situation is the only sensible action to take. Just too many uncertainties.
9/17/24, 10:54pm: [Admin] quote re-ordered to put reply below, not above.
bsmessybakery said: Hey everyone, I hope everyone is ok?
I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet up until now. The reason i have been is due to me feeling very uncomfortable and sad about the discussions unfolding and being put in this situation after last week agreeing to host an event, and in all honesty, I was hoping that something could perhaps be solved and resolved to continue something for us all to celebrate & get together.
I'm not one to speak to much or air my feelings on social media to be honest, I usually just speak to the individuals myself and I have spoken with both Jim & Penny directly and I can confirm that both have not had any influence over my choice here nor is there any bad feelings or broken relationships. I would also like to point out I'm thankful to Jim for laying down his own cash for this event despite the current situation and my own feelings in this matter. I think we can all agree it was a kind gesture and im sad this has all happened like this.
I wasn't being paid for the event nor would I want to be, all I wanted was to be around our community and to celebrate & enjoy an afternoon together. I was so excited to host and very honoured to be nominated, again thank you
The whole thing for me personally reading the messages is really upsetting and I've been so stressed with it the last few days and feeling like I'm now in the middle. I've been made aware that 89 people have tickets and that has been on my mind massively and hence why I was hoping something could be sorted and I would attend and host for those 89 people, despite my own feelings on things.
It's my grandmas birthday on the 28th and I moved things around when I was asked to host as I was very much looking forward to such event. I was very clear that I would just be hosting and that was that and it was all under control by the organisers so left it as that, great I thought I get to have a fun afternoon with the community and then a lovely birthday evening with my dear Gran.
I would just like to point out that is no ill feelings between myself and Jim and also with penny and the messtival team there is no ill feelings what so ever with either of them and none towards me and that I am not taking sides with this decision, i just feel very stuck between something I had no involvement in and that it's not my place to be involved in the middle currently.
There is no bitter feelings towards jim personally, him as a person, but with regards to this event I feel better for my own mental health right now and things I have going on personally to step back from feeling like I'm in the middle of something which is becoming nothing what I initially thought it was going to be and I also would like to confirm that this is also not because I feel un safe at this event.
Unfortunately this for me personally has become a huge strain and with that a lot more stress to my everyday life so for that reason for my own mental health and a very heavy heart, I will be pulling out of this event.
I'm extremely sorry to those that are still perhaps attending and I hope you understand my reasons and to know it hasn't been easy for me to decide, hence why I have been quiet until now and sat hopeful.
Anyone that knows me or follows me knows that this community means the absolute world to me, I absolutely love our community and i respect everyone within it, even during conflict times, I always remain hopeful as a community we can pull together, but right now I feel there is far to much upset and anger. I truly hope as a community that something can be resolved along the way and that we do eventually get a day to celebrate one day but on a much more happier and positive circumstance and to all get together and I will be there with bells on!!!
I love you all so much and thank you for understanding.
Lots of love, hugs and splats always.
Bri (bsmessybakery)
X
I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet up until now. The reason i have been is due to me feeling very uncomfortable and sad about the discussions unfolding and being put in this situation after last week agreeing to host an event, and in all honesty, I was hoping that something could perhaps be solved and resolved to continue something for us all to celebrate & get together.
I'm not one to speak to much or air my feelings on social media to be honest, I usually just speak to the individuals myself and I have spoken with both Jim & Penny directly and I can confirm that both have not had any influence over my choice here nor is there any bad feelings or broken relationships. I would also like to point out I'm thankful to Jim for laying down his own cash for this event despite the current situation and my own feelings in this matter. I think we can all agree it was a kind gesture and im sad this has all happened like this.
I wasn't being paid for the event nor would I want to be, all I wanted was to be around our community and to celebrate & enjoy an afternoon together. I was so excited to host and very honoured to be nominated, again thank you
The whole thing for me personally reading the messages is really upsetting and I've been so stressed with it the last few days and feeling like I'm now in the middle. I've been made aware that 89 people have tickets and that has been on my mind massively and hence why I was hoping something could be sorted and I would attend and host for those 89 people, despite my own feelings on things.
It's my grandmas birthday on the 28th and I moved things around when I was asked to host as I was very much looking forward to such event. I was very clear that I would just be hosting and that was that and it was all under control by the organisers so left it as that, great I thought I get to have a fun afternoon with the community and then a lovely birthday evening with my dear Gran.
I would just like to point out that is no ill feelings between myself and Jim and also with penny and the messtival team there is no ill feelings what so ever with either of them and none towards me and that I am not taking sides with this decision, i just feel very stuck between something I had no involvement in and that it's not my place to be involved in the middle currently.
There is no bitter feelings towards jim personally, him as a person, but with regards to this event I feel better for my own mental health right now and things I have going on personally to step back from feeling like I'm in the middle of something which is becoming nothing what I initially thought it was going to be and I also would like to confirm that this is also not because I feel un safe at this event.
Unfortunately this for me personally has become a huge strain and with that a lot more stress to my everyday life so for that reason for my own mental health and a very heavy heart, I will be pulling out of this event.
I'm extremely sorry to those that are still perhaps attending and I hope you understand my reasons and to know it hasn't been easy for me to decide, hence why I have been quiet until now and sat hopeful.
Anyone that knows me or follows me knows that this community means the absolute world to me, I absolutely love our community and i respect everyone within it, even during conflict times, I always remain hopeful as a community we can pull together, but right now I feel there is far to much upset and anger. I truly hope as a community that something can be resolved along the way and that we do eventually get a day to celebrate one day but on a much more happier and positive circumstance and to all get together and I will be there with bells on!!!
I love you all so much and thank you for understanding.
Lots of love, hugs and splats always.
Bri (bsmessybakery)
X
Bri,
Firstly I am sorry that you have been put in this position and made to feel this way! I wouldn't wish it on anyone - let alone you. You are amazing and an asset to our community!
Secondly, I would like to apologise if any of my messages have added to your stresses in what was already a difficult situation for you. This was never my intention however that does not excuse the fact if that is the case. I have tried to toe a hard line and hold people to account for their actions and didn't necessarily consider the wider impact I may be having.
I too hope that when the dust settles we can all come together as a community and move on from this having learned a number of the dos, don'ts and other wider considerations when trying to run larger-scale, more commercial events such as this.
I also feel for the attendees who have booked travel arrangements and hope that those still planning to travel are able to hold their own smaller-scale splunch-like meet-up(s) and/or people are able to amend their plans/aren't too out of pocket.
Teaching bratty models a messy lesson since 2014
Well that is a shit-show of 9 pages. 1-4 are 'Oh goody an event' and then it crashes and burns 
Personally, how can it happen now. FAR too much emotion and bad feeling. Plus (unless I missed it), Jim appears to have vanished.
Save your hard earned pennies and wait for the next UMD drama (because there is nearly always some UMD drama occurring).
BTW. I am hosting a music event this Autumn called Glastonbury in my garden. Tickets available soon
Personally, how can it happen now. FAR too much emotion and bad feeling. Plus (unless I missed it), Jim appears to have vanished.
Save your hard earned pennies and wait for the next UMD drama (because there is nearly always some UMD drama occurring).
BTW. I am hosting a music event this Autumn called Glastonbury in my garden. Tickets available soon
I went from excited and supportive, to let down but wanting to see how this plays out, to now, well? Is there a popcorn emoji? I want a popcorn emoji.
Cake Kitten =^.^= ...meow
https://suno.com/song/bd454fe8-40e3-4236-b91f-fb7c93a99b91
well, make fun of ai song about this .. !
https://suno.com/song/e98b6c50-8581-49ab-9ce4-a73724d86894
yep messy song as well !
well, make fun of ai song about this .. !
https://suno.com/song/e98b6c50-8581-49ab-9ce4-a73724d86894
yep messy song as well !
Topcattopone said:
Hands up anyone here who has not erred. - anyone?
Hands up anyone here who has not erred. - anyone?
Hmmm.
So, I dunno. I've made mistakes. And some of these mistakes have had consequences, some were just an "Oops, my bad" and everyone laughs - but some cost me money, some cost others money, some affected folks perception of me.
However, somehow in my mistakes I've never managed to accidentally misleading people into thinking I had consent to take over an established event, which got them to agree to things they might not have been as quick to agree to.
I've never managed to accidentally have people believe I'm interacting with the organisers for help/advice when I am doing no such thing
As mistakes go, these are fairly sizeable and not above criticism or people's frustration.
And - it's not like there's that much we've got to go on in attempts to rectify things.
bsmessybakery said: Hey everyone, I hope everyone is ok?
I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet up until now. The reason i have been is due to me feeling very uncomfortable and sad about the discussions unfolding and being put in this situation after last week agreeing to host an event, and in all honesty, I was hoping that something could perhaps be solved and resolved to continue something for us all to celebrate & get together.
I'm not one to speak to much or air my feelings on social media to be honest, I usually just speak to the individuals myself and I have spoken with both Jim & Penny directly and I can confirm that both have not had any influence over my choice here nor is there any bad feelings or broken relationships. I would also like to point out I'm thankful to Jim for laying down his own cash for this event despite the current situation and my own feelings in this matter. I think we can all agree it was a kind gesture and im sad this has all happened like this.
I wasn't being paid for the event nor would I want to be, all I wanted was to be around our community and to celebrate & enjoy an afternoon together. I was so excited to host and very honoured to be nominated, again thank you
The whole thing for me personally reading the messages is really upsetting and I've been so stressed with it the last few days and feeling like I'm now in the middle. I've been made aware that 89 people have tickets and that has been on my mind massively and hence why I was hoping something could be sorted and I would attend and host for those 89 people, despite my own feelings on things.
It's my grandmas birthday on the 28th and I moved things around when I was asked to host as I was very much looking forward to such event. I was very clear that I would just be hosting and that was that and it was all under control by the organisers so left it as that, great I thought I get to have a fun afternoon with the community and then a lovely birthday evening with my dear Gran.
I would just like to point out that is no ill feelings between myself and Jim and also with penny and the messtival team there is no ill feelings what so ever with either of them and none towards me and that I am not taking sides with this decision, i just feel very stuck between something I had no involvement in and that it's not my place to be involved in the middle currently.
There is no bitter feelings towards jim personally, him as a person, but with regards to this event I feel better for my own mental health right now and things I have going on personally to step back from feeling like I'm in the middle of something which is becoming nothing what I initially thought it was going to be and I also would like to confirm that this is also not because I feel un safe at this event.
Unfortunately this for me personally has become a huge strain and with that a lot more stress to my everyday life so for that reason for my own mental health and a very heavy heart, I will be pulling out of this event.
I'm extremely sorry to those that are still perhaps attending and I hope you understand my reasons and to know it hasn't been easy for me to decide, hence why I have been quiet until now and sat hopeful.
Anyone that knows me or follows me knows that this community means the absolute world to me, I absolutely love our community and i respect everyone within it, even during conflict times, I always remain hopeful as a community we can pull together, but right now I feel there is far to much upset and anger. I truly hope as a community that something can be resolved along the way and that we do eventually get a day to celebrate one day but on a much more happier and positive circumstance and to all get together and I will be there with bells on!!!
I love you all so much and thank you for understanding.
Lots of love, hugs and splats always.
Bri (bsmessybakery)
X
I'm sorry I've been a bit quiet up until now. The reason i have been is due to me feeling very uncomfortable and sad about the discussions unfolding and being put in this situation after last week agreeing to host an event, and in all honesty, I was hoping that something could perhaps be solved and resolved to continue something for us all to celebrate & get together.
I'm not one to speak to much or air my feelings on social media to be honest, I usually just speak to the individuals myself and I have spoken with both Jim & Penny directly and I can confirm that both have not had any influence over my choice here nor is there any bad feelings or broken relationships. I would also like to point out I'm thankful to Jim for laying down his own cash for this event despite the current situation and my own feelings in this matter. I think we can all agree it was a kind gesture and im sad this has all happened like this.
I wasn't being paid for the event nor would I want to be, all I wanted was to be around our community and to celebrate & enjoy an afternoon together. I was so excited to host and very honoured to be nominated, again thank you
The whole thing for me personally reading the messages is really upsetting and I've been so stressed with it the last few days and feeling like I'm now in the middle. I've been made aware that 89 people have tickets and that has been on my mind massively and hence why I was hoping something could be sorted and I would attend and host for those 89 people, despite my own feelings on things.
It's my grandmas birthday on the 28th and I moved things around when I was asked to host as I was very much looking forward to such event. I was very clear that I would just be hosting and that was that and it was all under control by the organisers so left it as that, great I thought I get to have a fun afternoon with the community and then a lovely birthday evening with my dear Gran.
I would just like to point out that is no ill feelings between myself and Jim and also with penny and the messtival team there is no ill feelings what so ever with either of them and none towards me and that I am not taking sides with this decision, i just feel very stuck between something I had no involvement in and that it's not my place to be involved in the middle currently.
There is no bitter feelings towards jim personally, him as a person, but with regards to this event I feel better for my own mental health right now and things I have going on personally to step back from feeling like I'm in the middle of something which is becoming nothing what I initially thought it was going to be and I also would like to confirm that this is also not because I feel un safe at this event.
Unfortunately this for me personally has become a huge strain and with that a lot more stress to my everyday life so for that reason for my own mental health and a very heavy heart, I will be pulling out of this event.
I'm extremely sorry to those that are still perhaps attending and I hope you understand my reasons and to know it hasn't been easy for me to decide, hence why I have been quiet until now and sat hopeful.
Anyone that knows me or follows me knows that this community means the absolute world to me, I absolutely love our community and i respect everyone within it, even during conflict times, I always remain hopeful as a community we can pull together, but right now I feel there is far to much upset and anger. I truly hope as a community that something can be resolved along the way and that we do eventually get a day to celebrate one day but on a much more happier and positive circumstance and to all get together and I will be there with bells on!!!
I love you all so much and thank you for understanding.
Lots of love, hugs and splats always.
Bri (bsmessybakery)
X
I feel you've been unfairly placed in a difficult situation - but - honestly, the only wrong decision is the one you're least happy with.
Regardless of if that was attending or withdrawing. Your own health has to be most important.
MessyBratz said:
Well since you believe that my posts have been "repetitive with aggressive diatribes" when all I have been doing is challenging Jim to provide an appropriate response to safety concerns and highlighted a lack of informed consent (further backed up by various nominees and nominators withdrawing their support citing this very reason) I thought that was implied?
Pasta said:
Where did I say any of that?
MessyBratz said:
If you believe that manufactured consent from the organiser of a fetish event is ok and should be overlooked and then not held to account or questioned on the safety of this community then I think you should revisit the concept of informed consent yourself. Informed consent is vital in any link space and has been at the heart of most of the various issues that have arisen on here through the years.
Pasta said: I don't think I'm the one getting hung up on anything. My small number of concise, considered contributions to this thread are in stark contrast to your seemingly endless repetitive and aggressive diatribes.
If you believe that manufactured consent from the organiser of a fetish event is ok and should be overlooked and then not held to account or questioned on the safety of this community then I think you should revisit the concept of informed consent yourself. Informed consent is vital in any link space and has been at the heart of most of the various issues that have arisen on here through the years.
Where did I say any of that?
Well since you believe that my posts have been "repetitive with aggressive diatribes" when all I have been doing is challenging Jim to provide an appropriate response to safety concerns and highlighted a lack of informed consent (further backed up by various nominees and nominators withdrawing their support citing this very reason) I thought that was implied?
I have no horse in this race.
Jim would not be at the top of my list of individuals to organise a drinking competition in a brewery, and Penny would not occupy a similar position in my list of people who are seemingly not prone to overreacting to things.
However, that doesn't mean I won't comment when I see someone harping on endlessly with variations on the same theme.
Pasta said:
I have no horse in this race.
Jim would not be at the top of my list of individuals to organise a drinking competition in a brewery, and Penny would not occupy a similar position in my list of people who are seemingly not prone to overreacting to things.
However, that doesn't mean I won't comment when I see someone harping on endlessly with variations on the same theme.
MessyBratz said:
Well since you believe that my posts have been "repetitive with aggressive diatribes" when all I have been doing is challenging Jim to provide an appropriate response to safety concerns and highlighted a lack of informed consent (further backed up by various nominees and nominators withdrawing their support citing this very reason) I thought that was implied?
Pasta said:
Where did I say any of that?
MessyBratz said:
If you believe that manufactured consent from the organiser of a fetish event is ok and should be overlooked and then not held to account or questioned on the safety of this community then I think you should revisit the concept of informed consent yourself. Informed consent is vital in any link space and has been at the heart of most of the various issues that have arisen on here through the years.
Pasta said: I don't think I'm the one getting hung up on anything. My small number of concise, considered contributions to this thread are in stark contrast to your seemingly endless repetitive and aggressive diatribes.
If you believe that manufactured consent from the organiser of a fetish event is ok and should be overlooked and then not held to account or questioned on the safety of this community then I think you should revisit the concept of informed consent yourself. Informed consent is vital in any link space and has been at the heart of most of the various issues that have arisen on here through the years.
Where did I say any of that?
Well since you believe that my posts have been "repetitive with aggressive diatribes" when all I have been doing is challenging Jim to provide an appropriate response to safety concerns and highlighted a lack of informed consent (further backed up by various nominees and nominators withdrawing their support citing this very reason) I thought that was implied?
I have no horse in this race.
Jim would not be at the top of my list of individuals to organise a drinking competition in a brewery, and Penny would not occupy a similar position in my list of people who are seemingly not prone to overreacting to things.
However, that doesn't mean I won't comment when I see someone harping on endlessly with variations on the same theme.
Says the one harping on endlessly with variations of the same
If you genuinely believe that Penny's reaction to Jim trying to steal one of Penny's businesses is an overreaction then I think you should find out from the original Messtival organisers just how much work, time, blood, sweat, tears and effort went into it and make the same assessment again. Penny said yes to Jim holding a messy awards ceremony- not him taking the entire business and brand from her.
Teaching bratty models a messy lesson since 2014
It's a pity the way this has all turned out. I'd put this event in my calendar as a possibility, but there's no way I'll be attending now.
Picking up on a few specific points from the discussion:
Back on page 2:
So, that's 3 minutes for the trailers rather than 4m 30s, but it's still a tight schedule!
I didn't attend the Messtival events in 2019 or 2022, but I was looking through the old forum posts about them. In particular, looking at the announcement from 2019:
https://umd.net/groups/i/welcome-to-messtival
The doors opened at 12 noon, ready for the event to start at 12:30. That's a sensible approach, but Jim's event just says "13:00-15:30". If that's when the doors open, there will be less time for the awards by the time everyone's come in and sat down.
In terms of mess, I think the obvious approach is either "don't do it at all" or "keep it minimal" (e.g. a shaving foam pie that can be wiped off with a paper towel). Going for buckets of gunge without a shower seems like a bad idea! At the same time, the organisers also need to manage expectations, i.e. if people are turning up because they're expecting to see someone covered in mess from head to toe, they might be disappointed by a small blob of foam.
From a personal point of view, I'm happy to get messy if I'm wearing jeans and T-shirt. I'm also happy to get dressed up in a suit or dinner jacket. However, I wouldn't want to get messy in my formal clothes.
Those are interesting questions (and I don't know what the answers are or should be). I know that there are other people who hire cinemas for film festivals (e.g. "cult vampire movies of the 1970s"), and I wouldn't expect them to do any particular vetting of attendees, but it would still make sense for them to do a risk assessment (e.g. making sure that there's a first aider somewhere in the building).
There's a spectrum between "people sit down watching films" and "people pour gunge over each other". When does vetting become necessary?
Also, similar to firewalls, there's a choice of "default deny" (i.e. block everyone unless you specifically trust them) or "default allow" (i.e. let everyone in unless you know they're dodgy). If I wanted to become a producer, and I was hiring models to come to my house, I'd expect them to ask for references (i.e. default deny). In a case like this, maybe default allow is safe enough. Even then, there are still GDPR questions, i.e. who gets to see the real names for all the attendees?
Picking up on a few specific points from the discussion:
eyemblacksheep said: Like, 27 categories in 2 1/2 hours is 6 mins per category, and if you're showing 90 second trailers of 3 finalists in each category that is 4 1/2 minutes which gives just 90 seconds to announce the category, announce the winner and have the acceptance speech.
Back on page 2:
naughtyjim said: Nominees can be from anywhere as long as I can get contact with them (because, if they're in the 'final 3', then I need a sub-1 min 'highlights reel' for the clip; and them to be able to do an acceptance speech (preferably in-person but obvs a pre-recorded if they're not in the UI). More on that to follow...
So, that's 3 minutes for the trailers rather than 4m 30s, but it's still a tight schedule!
I didn't attend the Messtival events in 2019 or 2022, but I was looking through the old forum posts about them. In particular, looking at the announcement from 2019:
https://umd.net/groups/i/welcome-to-messtival
The doors opened at 12 noon, ready for the event to start at 12:30. That's a sensible approach, but Jim's event just says "13:00-15:30". If that's when the doors open, there will be less time for the awards by the time everyone's come in and sat down.
In terms of mess, I think the obvious approach is either "don't do it at all" or "keep it minimal" (e.g. a shaving foam pie that can be wiped off with a paper towel). Going for buckets of gunge without a shower seems like a bad idea! At the same time, the organisers also need to manage expectations, i.e. if people are turning up because they're expecting to see someone covered in mess from head to toe, they might be disappointed by a small blob of foam.
From a personal point of view, I'm happy to get messy if I'm wearing jeans and T-shirt. I'm also happy to get dressed up in a suit or dinner jacket. However, I wouldn't want to get messy in my formal clothes.
MessyBratz said:
It might also be useful to include answers to these questions in the update (which I assume will be posted here and sent out on various platforms including mass e-mails to attendees):
- How do you intend to keep members safe whilst at the event?
- What vetting have you done on attendees to ensure they aren't a risk to those attending?
- What processes and procedures have you put in place for people reporting issues at the event and how will you resolve them?
- What risk assessments have you performed for the event?
- What insurance cover do you have in place for those attending?
It might also be useful to include answers to these questions in the update (which I assume will be posted here and sent out on various platforms including mass e-mails to attendees):
- How do you intend to keep members safe whilst at the event?
- What vetting have you done on attendees to ensure they aren't a risk to those attending?
- What processes and procedures have you put in place for people reporting issues at the event and how will you resolve them?
- What risk assessments have you performed for the event?
- What insurance cover do you have in place for those attending?
Those are interesting questions (and I don't know what the answers are or should be). I know that there are other people who hire cinemas for film festivals (e.g. "cult vampire movies of the 1970s"), and I wouldn't expect them to do any particular vetting of attendees, but it would still make sense for them to do a risk assessment (e.g. making sure that there's a first aider somewhere in the building).
There's a spectrum between "people sit down watching films" and "people pour gunge over each other". When does vetting become necessary?
Also, similar to firewalls, there's a choice of "default deny" (i.e. block everyone unless you specifically trust them) or "default allow" (i.e. let everyone in unless you know they're dodgy). If I wanted to become a producer, and I was hiring models to come to my house, I'd expect them to ask for references (i.e. default deny). In a case like this, maybe default allow is safe enough. Even then, there are still GDPR questions, i.e. who gets to see the real names for all the attendees?
flank said: It's a pity the way this has all turned out. I'd put this event in my calendar as a possibility, but there's no way I'll be attending now.
Picking up on a few specific points from the discussion:
Back on page 2:
So, that's 3 minutes for the trailers rather than 4m 30s, but it's still a tight schedule!
I didn't attend the Messtival events in 2019 or 2022, but I was looking through the old forum posts about them. In particular, looking at the announcement from 2019:
https://umd.net/groups/i/welcome-to-messtival
The doors opened at 12 noon, ready for the event to start at 12:30. That's a sensible approach, but Jim's event just says "13:00-15:30". If that's when the doors open, there will be less time for the awards by the time everyone's come in and sat down.
In terms of mess, I think the obvious approach is either "don't do it at all" or "keep it minimal" (e.g. a shaving foam pie that can be wiped off with a paper towel). Going for buckets of gunge without a shower seems like a bad idea! At the same time, the organisers also need to manage expectations, i.e. if people are turning up because they're expecting to see someone covered in mess from head to toe, they might be disappointed by a small blob of foam.
From a personal point of view, I'm happy to get messy if I'm wearing jeans and T-shirt. I'm also happy to get dressed up in a suit or dinner jacket. However, I wouldn't want to get messy in my formal clothes.
Those are interesting questions (and I don't know what the answers are or should be). I know that there are other people who hire cinemas for film festivals (e.g. "cult vampire movies of the 1970s"), and I wouldn't expect them to do any particular vetting of attendees, but it would still make sense for them to do a risk assessment (e.g. making sure that there's a first aider somewhere in the building).
There's a spectrum between "people sit down watching films" and "people pour gunge over each other". When does vetting become necessary?
Also, similar to firewalls, there's a choice of "default deny" (i.e. block everyone unless you specifically trust them) or "default allow" (i.e. let everyone in unless you know they're dodgy). If I wanted to become a producer, and I was hiring models to come to my house, I'd expect them to ask for references (i.e. default deny). In a case like this, maybe default allow is safe enough. Even then, there are still GDPR questions, i.e. who gets to see the real names for all the attendees?
Picking up on a few specific points from the discussion:
eyemblacksheep said: Like, 27 categories in 2 1/2 hours is 6 mins per category, and if you're showing 90 second trailers of 3 finalists in each category that is 4 1/2 minutes which gives just 90 seconds to announce the category, announce the winner and have the acceptance speech.
Back on page 2:
naughtyjim said: Nominees can be from anywhere as long as I can get contact with them (because, if they're in the 'final 3', then I need a sub-1 min 'highlights reel' for the clip; and them to be able to do an acceptance speech (preferably in-person but obvs a pre-recorded if they're not in the UI). More on that to follow...
So, that's 3 minutes for the trailers rather than 4m 30s, but it's still a tight schedule!
I didn't attend the Messtival events in 2019 or 2022, but I was looking through the old forum posts about them. In particular, looking at the announcement from 2019:
https://umd.net/groups/i/welcome-to-messtival
The doors opened at 12 noon, ready for the event to start at 12:30. That's a sensible approach, but Jim's event just says "13:00-15:30". If that's when the doors open, there will be less time for the awards by the time everyone's come in and sat down.
In terms of mess, I think the obvious approach is either "don't do it at all" or "keep it minimal" (e.g. a shaving foam pie that can be wiped off with a paper towel). Going for buckets of gunge without a shower seems like a bad idea! At the same time, the organisers also need to manage expectations, i.e. if people are turning up because they're expecting to see someone covered in mess from head to toe, they might be disappointed by a small blob of foam.
From a personal point of view, I'm happy to get messy if I'm wearing jeans and T-shirt. I'm also happy to get dressed up in a suit or dinner jacket. However, I wouldn't want to get messy in my formal clothes.
MessyBratz said:
It might also be useful to include answers to these questions in the update (which I assume will be posted here and sent out on various platforms including mass e-mails to attendees):
- How do you intend to keep members safe whilst at the event?
- What vetting have you done on attendees to ensure they aren't a risk to those attending?
- What processes and procedures have you put in place for people reporting issues at the event and how will you resolve them?
- What risk assessments have you performed for the event?
- What insurance cover do you have in place for those attending?
It might also be useful to include answers to these questions in the update (which I assume will be posted here and sent out on various platforms including mass e-mails to attendees):
- How do you intend to keep members safe whilst at the event?
- What vetting have you done on attendees to ensure they aren't a risk to those attending?
- What processes and procedures have you put in place for people reporting issues at the event and how will you resolve them?
- What risk assessments have you performed for the event?
- What insurance cover do you have in place for those attending?
Those are interesting questions (and I don't know what the answers are or should be). I know that there are other people who hire cinemas for film festivals (e.g. "cult vampire movies of the 1970s"), and I wouldn't expect them to do any particular vetting of attendees, but it would still make sense for them to do a risk assessment (e.g. making sure that there's a first aider somewhere in the building).
There's a spectrum between "people sit down watching films" and "people pour gunge over each other". When does vetting become necessary?
Also, similar to firewalls, there's a choice of "default deny" (i.e. block everyone unless you specifically trust them) or "default allow" (i.e. let everyone in unless you know they're dodgy). If I wanted to become a producer, and I was hiring models to come to my house, I'd expect them to ask for references (i.e. default deny). In a case like this, maybe default allow is safe enough. Even then, there are still GDPR questions, i.e. who gets to see the real names for all the attendees?
Indeed. One of our key concerns as founders/organisers of Messtival is the fact that we DO, in fact, have a blacklist - people who have been banned from attending any future event due to unacceptable behaviour at previous events (including bans for physical confrontation and stalking).
In our very first official reply to Jim we made him aware of the existence of our blacklist, as an example of one of the many ways in which his hijacking of our event without any communication or cooperation puts everyone at risk. At this point we are still yet to receive ANY reply at all to this, let alone a conversation around the measures we have put in place at our events to keep hosts, participants and attendees safe. Hence why the safety concerns persistently hammered home by the likes of MessyBratz on this thread have been absolutely justified, in our eyes.
In such a small community, it is very achievable and important to employ vetting procedures. Transparent cooperation allows for this.
What occured in this instance leaves the door wide open for known bad actors to regain access to sensitive spaces, and potentially further access to people they have previously targeted.
Messtival Co-Founder
There's a spectrum between "people sit down watching films" and "people pour gunge over each other". When does vetting become necessary?
This is one of the kinda sad but true kinda things.
So , there will be folk told to stay away from cult 70s vampire festivals, maybe not that many - but maybe folk who've gotten a bit too familiar with - say, female actresses
It's probably minimal, I'm not sure.
Then when we kinda cross into splosh - it is effectively - well, we are ultimately an Adult Fetish Community - and so ultimately whether it's a film fest, awards, splunch, gunge games, whatever, it becomes a fetish community event, rather than just any of the previous
and, unfortunately, as someone involved in my local fetish community - and also my local goth scene.
I can tell you that there are far fewer people asked not to attend the goth scene events than the fetish community events. Not that there are reems of lists for either mind.
But there are folk who've been on the fetish community whose behaviour has been inappropriate and they *know* it's been inappropriate - and so it's not appropriate to have them in a community space
I think one of the subtle differences is that folk go to say, Vampire Horror Festivals because they're into Vampire Horror and want to enjoy it with others
People go to Goth clubs/gigs/etc because they like the music and want the shared experience or to see a band they like.
People go to fetish community events because, well, they have that fetish/interest and want the shared experience -- but -- also, for some the difference between watching content at home and going to events is that they feel they can have an access to people and sometimes behaviour oversteps the mark : I don't know the Messtival ban list but if I was a betting man I reckon it would included....
People who have attended other events and blatantly disregarded the rules
Folk who have persistently overstepped boundaries with members of the gender they find attractive
Folk where there are reports of non-consensual behaviour
Any types of prior violent or threatening behaviour
cos a lot of those folk will turn up to events where they think they're not known, or maybe are, and either they'll excessively behave in order to get a false impression - or just repeat whatever they'd been accused of - and in either case, can make others uncomfortable just by being there
I've gone a bit waffly, but I think ultimately you don't get access to a community if you can't follow the rules of the community
Anyhow - our hypothetical person might not have attended knowing it was a Messtival, or may have tried to get tickets to see if they were stopped (an event I used to work with would check all names on ticket purchases and then reach out and cancel any that were folk not welcome, who were hoping to just turn up undetected) OR now knowing there has clearly not been communication between this event and others - know their name has not been passed on and then they gain access to a community space.
(incidentally, someone once banned may over time have a route back, but that should be due to time and feelings of improved behaviour, not because they've side stepped a ban)
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