It is a fetish site selling fetish clips. While a set-up of a clip holds interest, nobody cares about writing and scripts of a wam video anymore than they care about acting and plot in a porn film.

That's not why you see these things.

I would suggest to those producers to save the detailed writing and scripts and use them for some non-wam videos they can put up on youtube. Or something.

They might get more appreciation that way because I can tell you, even if someone buys a scripted wam video, like you said, they are skipping over the exposition and going right to the "money shots" the second time they watch it and from then on.

Sure, Debbie is a horny college slut that wants big cock; but what's her major? What are her dreams?? What are her aspirations???

-JD

Why does this spank video have exposition?

It's not even that, atmosphere and reason make up a lot of fetish ("I've been a bad girl"). It's the difference between fetish and porn, and a line that gets blurred.

Some producers do over egg the pudding... but that doesn't make it wrong or pointless.


Fuck, look at how many people are all about the messy gameshows.

Thanks very much gness7, noise & Rich

Regis/Jedi etc To be clear...I am not naive, I totally get that the clips are for wanking to. I get that 100%. It's just about what people find sexy. I find a whole variety of shapes, ages and sizes of models sexy provided they can act & react & convey a scenario. I find a good scenario, where you're not sure who will be wammed or when, sexy as it reminds me of growing up and the sexiness of anticipation. I love a good role-play with realistic characters & good acting. There are people on here who find that side of things sexy too..just not as many as I thought/hoped

Noise says it perfectly 'atmosphere and reason make up a lot of fetish"

For the record I never skip the build up on a producer's wam scene, even on the 15th viewing, because if it is well done, for me it can be at least as sexy as the actual pieing.

I produce my scenes primarily for me. They are my ideas. I like them..they work for me. I know it's not Orson Welles but I have to make the films I want to make or there's no point. I also love the work of similar producers who bring great creativity to their work, all of who know also what the clips are for.

You are right..the market doesn't lie & we are clearly a niche within a niche within a niche. There are others who like these things too..but not as many as I had imagined. I am not in it to make money..or I would not be shooting wam at all!

Equally I only have a finite amount of money so at some point I will be gone as a producer. What will then be frustrating will be threads wondering why I stopped producing, & why I have gone the way of blue leopard et al

However I hope you'll allow me the very occasional howl of frustration that our definition of what makes a WAM scene sexy, which is very time consuming and effort involving, is much less commercial than other visions which are a lot easier to produce.

It may be baffling to you, gness, but it is what it is.

I'm not telling anyone not to get all grandiose with the writing and the scripts and the details thereof. I'm just saying it is kinda silly to complain later that they aren't selling when a producer generally knows in advance they probably won't be the big sellers.

reverendsl writes:



That's ok. I never bought of your stuff, so I won't miss you. :devil:


As I told gness, I think it is silly because you know what you are getting yourself into, but howl away. Don't let me stop you.

As previous posters have noted: there is a difference between fetish and (pure) porn, though the lines blur in some cases...also: that most producers produce the kind of videos that THEY like, first, and what the audience wants, second (which can explain the huge differential in sales of videos from different producers.

I appreciate and enjoy a GOOD set up (anticipation factor, etc.) and have found that a set up works "better" if it has a decent level of titilation or erotic teasing...this can be an appeal to another fetish (or contain some fetishists material)...for example: the Strawberry Dessert scene in Splat!TV with Tamara Z....but, if doing a wam video (not a fetish video with some wam content), a set up should be no longer than 1-2 minutes, imo....humor is always good, especially if one's approach is classic slapstick (verses say, strictly sploshing humiliation)...but yes, popularity comes down to that mysterious calculation of model personality production values....thankfully, there is no one formula, but several, given the diversity of this community.

I will venture that the one "producer WAM" scene that everyone talks about over, and over, and over... is "Ariel's Pie Shop" from MessyFun. Which was definitely one of the more scripted MF scenes ever.

I truly don't know though. I write scripts to amuse myself and (mostly) to amuse the models. The good ones appreciate a good script. Not that I haven't just improvised an entire scene before, but the good models would rather "do" something rather than just sit in a chair and get pies thrown at them or slime dumped on them. (The word one model used for that was "living furniture." She also wondered why people who shoot those scenes didn't just buy mannequins and save some money. )

But yes, I know most people are just looking for the money shots. And that's fine. Whatever makes people keep buying so I can keep producing. You'll notice the FREE teasers tend to be all buildup and no money shot.... almost as if I *know* what people are spending their money on.......

Say it isn't so.....does this mean that pie fans are not watching the first hour of Chega Mais and are only watching the latter part without a Portuguese language translation book in their hands !!

The law of the land has spoken. Deal with it. :ahahah:

I like you dude, but you are making a couple of assumptions in your post. Your first assumption is that people don't want scripted wam. I think people are getting a bit confused about scripted versus what I would call "scenario" wam. Script means little to me, what I like is scenario. Like MG's Customer is Always Right, but also like Rich's films, WAMerica's and Nadia'a. The thing is, I like the idea of a scene (customer and waitress; snob vs. nerd, etc.) more than the words in the scene. So, I think there are plenty of people who like "scene" wam but they might not be buying if they think that the mess is subpar, which brings me to...

You assume that your choice of models is harming your sales. Maybe. But not for me. For me, the pics you choose to highlight your scenes are not nearly messy enough. I am one of those crass Americans who likes actual PIES in the FACE. I like other mess, of course, but if I don't see good face and head coverage I ain't purchasing. Maybe your vids have that, but the pics highlight a lot of what I find frustrating with wam producers (and, to be fair, most people other than me must like it): focus on wamming breasts, legs, etc. That is fine for what it is worth, but if the head and face is being comparatively ignored, I am not buying.

Interesting discussion

I like you too dude

I am aware that my clips aren't successful on a commercial level & have no problem with that. The market will decide etc. However I think the reasons behind it are manifold.

If I was just making them to be commercial, I would skip the build-up, the use of key trigger words that I love etc, purely because I could get more scenes done in a short time so their cost per scene would be less, in which case they would certainly break even. But I am not making them with sales as the primary motivator.

I appreciate you sharing your feedback as to why you don't uy my scenes which is great. However I just need to correct one misapprehension. I have definitely not assumed my choice of models is harming my sales. I was listing models as one of a huge number of things people mention about why they buy or don't buy a clip. The point is that people have so much choice now, if just one thing is off they needn't buy it. I don't think 'my choice of models has harmed sales' because a) I have used 8 different models with no discernible sales difference & b) if you had different models the people who loved the models you had before would stop buying.

Your point you made about you not buying because of the facial coverage is totally fair...for you. YOU don't buy them because from what you have seen in the screencaps you can't see enough mess on the face.

Someone else won't buy them because there is too much nudity..others because there's not enough nudity/sexual activity. Some because of the lack of multiple cameras, some because of the types of pies.

There is so much choice, as consumers we can wait for the perfect scene.

These challenges affect all producers. I am not the only one who has spoken openly about the commercial challenges at the mo, you must have seen Rich post in the same light.

I keep coming back to the fact that I have to make the scenes I want to make. If I tried to second guess the market I'd be using exactly the same/different models with more/less real pies/cakes with everyone getting messy / one girl staying clean with more/less nudity/sexual content. I'd also not be making the scenes that I love, which would defeat the whole point

and my first comment here was just echoing Rich's..that our lives would be a lot easier if our WAM vision was a lot simpler!

And what makes it even trickier is some of us have very broad tastes about what we like to see.

I was thinking about my all time favourite videos: there's heavily scripted ones like Pie Girl Kay & Mrs Bee at Cafe Wamnifique or Kate at Sammi's Cafe from Splosh, but then there's Jessie doing some naked cake sitting (which at 2 mins in contains the best, most natural reaction to anything I've ever seen in a WAM video). Not much consistency there.

About the only thing I can say I want to see in every video is a big messy snog at the end where there's two models involved!

Rev and Rich, I stand corrected. Many of our scripted shoots can be put in a category of "scripted light" compared to a fully start to finish scripted shoot. You are right Rich, what makes a good video is the model, set up and delivery of the mess, scripted or non scripted.

I can tell you that for 2015, our two best sellers that reached triple digits in sales the fastest were two totally different videos. "Tilly and Penelope" and "Marshmallow Engulfed Justine" but we had a feeling when shooting them that they would be big sellers, because of the models, mess and how it was used.

Let's be honest, all of this is (somewhat) a crapshoot. (No pun intended.)

I *usually* have an inkling if something's gonna be a big seller, but not always. And there are plenty of times when I'm really excited about a particular scene or model, but the buying public kinda shrugs and goes, "Eh." It happens.

There's also SOOOO many factors that are (somewhat) out of your control in making a good scene. Pies, especially real ones, are temperamental. So is slime. Even models you've worked with before have good and bad days. Sometimes you have tech issues. (I actually wound up doing a GREAT final scene with Breana because I thought, at the time, that I'd lost the first half of the footage and I needed to "atone"! HA!)

If everything went the same way every time, this job would be easier. But the end result would be a lot duller. The fact that every single shoot is somewhat unique is probably the reason we're still attracted to these clips. And how do scripts factor in? I guess, for me, it offers a solid framework even when everything else can be unpredictable.

I am tremendously grateful for the abundance of wam choices out there,
but not with my (non)-abundance of money to buy any of it.

Just curious if you can get through an adult discussion (in real or fake life) without calling anyone a name? Just curious.

He's probably a riot at parties. :ohbruther:

It seems too easy here to get some folks riled up by simply..... telling the truth. As one other poster (whose name I won't look up because it's just not important ) put it on this thread, there is a difference in basic set-up and long, scripted scenes.

Basic set-up is fine. No one is saying they just want the person getting messy and nothing else. A little exposition to set a mood is good, too.

Messygirl, I believe is a good example of this. They seem to know the right set-up, but not too much. Of having the set-up serve the wam scenes and not the other way around.

Basic set-up to get to wam = good.

Long winded scripts and monologues to get to the same wam = bad.

As I said before, this is, in the end, a sex site, not a KOMEDY!!! site (yes I intentionally misspelled comedy for a reason ). People come here because seeing someone get messy (be that a man or a woman) turns them on. They don't come here for "The Soupy Sales Show" or a three stooges short. They are less interested in the vaudevillian humor side of wam.

I'm not telling anyone not to make those videos. Knock yourselves out. Just remember what folks are here for, and it isn't your "brilliant" writing.

This is all your opinion Jediknight

You have every right to it, but one man's opinion is just that...it can't be badged as 'the truth'

One man's 'long winded' is another man's 'building anticipation' or 'fantastic build-up'

You don't like a long build up..great.

You don't like my stuff..also great

But I don't think Rich, Meathook, myself or any of the scripters have ever described our writing as 'brilliant'..we're just making something we enjoy. Which gives more choice to consumers..which surely is a good thing

But a couple of jocular remarks from myself and other posters around scripted wam being less popular than non scripted have become a massive unintended debate that none of us can know the answers to. Honestly certainly from me it was a light hearted aside not an attempt at customer purchase analysis

I am happy with what I do, happy with the lovely feedback I have had from purchasers, happy enough with my sales figures (happier than before, based on what MG has said hers are)

I love tons of other producers work and fully accept people have a myriad of reasons for picking one scene over another.

It is all a crapshoot as Rich has said....none of us have all the answers

but lets celebrate the diversity of the community & the scenes customers can buy, not attack it. The great choice can only be a good thing. I know as a jediknight and thus a force for good, you can agree with me on that

He's right.

We are a very diverse group of people, united by enjoying one or more of:

a) getting messy
b) seeing other people get messy
c) making other people messy
d) any of the above but with water instead of mud

Some won't buy scenes without nudity, some won't buy scenes with it. From my perspective, if it doesn't involve fully clothed legs and bums getting messy it isn't really WAM, yet people build entire WAM businesses on just pies in the face. I'd say "why waste a pie on a model's face when you could splatter it all over her skirt instead", but I know the majority would think any pie not pushed (or thrown or slammed) into a face has been wasted.

Instead of elaborate scripts for scenes, I have fairly simple scenes but an elaborate backstory for my entire site, and it has to be said for me half the fun is developing the on-going saga of the grand stately home in the high Pennines and its gunge-wild owner, her visitors and retainers. I've always liked architecture and history so it gives me an excuse to go round lots of historic houses and country estates, and bring whatever I learn and see to the storyline. The models find it entertaining too, and like the characters they get to play.

And what finally sells is completely random. I've shot scenes that I was convinced would sell and sell, and barely made it to double digits, I've shot other scenes that were done purely for the fun of it, and have proceeded to go like there's no tomorrow. Veronica in the duunagree shorts and wellies on the mudbanks, released last Midwinter, has gone on to be our fastest selling scene ever - and while it was brilliant fun to shoot, we never saw that coming. But with hindsight, that probably is what sells it - that it was amazing fun for Veronica to do, she loved every moment she was in the mud, and that really comes over in the video.

You can't buy, or script, that level or response. You just have to find models who really, really enjoy getting messy, and once you've found them, whether the scene has a really elaborate plot or whether they just start pouring soup down each other's trousers from the word go makes little difference, people see the spontaneous fun, and it pulls them into interest in the scene.

back in the days before the umd went 'full frontal porno' (pre-broadband, pre-explicit imagery days), may folks did indeed come here for the classic slapstick humor (and the messiness too)...it was the only site that regularly featured this type of humor (eroticized or not)...there were more threads about slapstick humor in general, and more thoughtful/analytical responses in general (not that some here don't give thoughtful replies)...those folks still come here, I believe, but they are less active/visible or vocal and are usually drowned out by the folks wanting more bj videos, etc...some actually made more 'classic' style slapstick videos because they knew they could sell some here with so many slapstick fans...

Hey, what happened to the thread about TUTV??? I think the guy ho made those videos is still here, probably watching this thread....but not wanting to chime in with a comment/response (which is his right)....

Perversity / diversity - eh.. it's all the same to me. I encourage maximizing both.
I'm always getting those two mixed up at colleges & universities.
That's why I never get hired. :-S

Of course it is.


Sure I can.

As you said, it is my opinion. So I can give my opinion on what the truth is or not.

You are the one attaching some absolute to it. I don't reacall in any of my posts where I wrote "And I speak for EVERYBODY when I say..."

Nope, never said that.


Well, I'm not saying they are brilliant either. Hence the quotation marks.


Jocularity? More like a persistent whine over the years that much of this community doesn't have the good taste to buy the more elaborate, scripted material. :ohbruther:


Well, good for you. More power to you.


I do. Though your wam material leaves something to desired for me to share the answers with you.


"Bargin rather that fight? He's no Jedi" :ahahah:

There's a fine line dividing the light and dark sides of the Force, and it's a simiarly thin line between giving your opinions about what "the people" think and coming across as actively speaking for these people en masse. Witness some of your earlier remarks in this thread:


You're entitled to your opinion about why people come here and what they're really interested in, of course, but please recognize that you are using absolutist phrasing here. You don't have to specifically claim to speak for everyone to be absolutist about something. Just by giving a blanket statement about "the truth" of what "people" en masse want and don't want, you are being absolutist. You can quibble it's an "absolutist opinion," I suppose, but it's still absolutist.

It's entirely probable that a majority of UMD members would agree with what you say. But there is obviously a decent-sized minority who feel very differently about what you're saying people come here for, some of whom have said so in this thread, some of whom have said so in other threads, and still others I have chatted with also have expressed a preference for scripted WAM. We may be small in number, but we are not the "Nobody" you cast us as when you write: "Nobody cares about writing and scripts of a wam video anymore than they care about acting and plot in a porn film." We exist, dammit!

~Interstellar Taco Cat on a Roast Beef Rocket, out.~

Wow, that has GOT to be the first time the UMD's Wammer of the Day has ever chimed in on a thread channeling his/her inner Yoda!

Well played, Maria!

By the way, what kind of bullshit was this silver-haired Jedi spouting when he said:

It's nice to see that I am not alone in my feelings of foced wam and actual humiliation. Game shows are bad enough for it; at least with Nickelodean the mess is usually a good thing.

I know, like script versus no scrip, everyone has their own prefrences, but doing forced wam as punishment without any acting involved literally gives me a derrection. Even when it is acted out in a movie...Part of the reason why I cold never do acting. Heck, this stupid stuff from Killer Klowns is so messed up
...so why can't I stop watching? Damn, I need to consider blockin certain friends for what wierd sh't they bring up!

It's sadly ironic, isn't it? Same principle but without playing? It's like sex vs. rape!
And when it's borderline or you think about it too much... you feel like a freak :,(

Can anyone else relate to where I'm coming from?