It's very kind of Candy to make the offer, but as she and others have said, it's only going to work if people cooperate with her, and don't blame her for things she has absolutely no control over, and from my experience of models who offer the service, and men who purchase it, neither of these things will happen.

So it's basically twats that ruin this, just like everything else in the world.

Looking at messy sessions though I've never understood it - Clearly if someone is on sites like this, has the interested and has gone as far as booking then you would want to see it through.
You would/should understand the work involved.
Over the last 15+ years I've probably met people for something that could be described as a session nearly 30 times. Of those those I paid toward I've only ever had to back out of one which was then re-scheduled.

If I decided/needed to pull out of something I've paid for then I know that money is most likely gone.
If I buy tickets to a concert and don't go then that money is gone.
Despite this sort of service being marketed to adults there seems to be a severe lack of grown ups getting involved.

Precisely the problem and it's on the rise. A model I am working with this coming march just had a GWC basically be rude to her for no reason today and declined working with her simply because she doesn't permit guys (the "producer") to grope her.

That is pretty much the exact phrase I've used on a few occasions where people have confuse the services that I offer on a personal meet

At the end of the day I get asked by a lot of people for the location of the clay pits I use and I have always said the same thing I never give out the location but For a select few I offer the service where I will meet up with you with my partner as I never go alone we will have a coffee have a chat then head over to one of the locations I will show them the right way to get into the place and the reasons that I don't give out locations by the time I've left they have a total understanding and respect of the whole site and understand the reasons for me not giving out the location between the start and finish of that I normally spend around 20 to 30 minutes having a general laugh in the clay with a bit of mud slinging and if they wish we will video it for them at no point is sex involved and most of the time neither is nudity it's about the experience of the clay pits the Iorfa and that's all it's ever about and I have made that clear every single me I've ever had and if I don't like it when they are told to go and find an Escort like you stated

Would someone like me who only exists on this site for this fetish still benefit from being on your list
Will it still not go against the terms of this site if I was to mention something like I can offer personal meets but to arrange it I have to come via your site obviously it's getting very confusing especially the fact that his financial institutes are now governing whether I can take someone to a Claypit or not

You can still arrange meet-ups and sessions here, just not advertise them for sale.


Actually it's just advertising for paid sessions here that they don't like. They don't care who you take to your clay pit

This question may already have been asked in one of the other posts but if I take away the fact that anything is being paid by card or digital transaction and it's just a cash transaction on the day that I take the risk of the person turning up or not what has that been got to do with any bank credit card company or financial institution
I asked this because I've always done it by cash anyway from as far back as I can remember because we are not allowed to mention the other way of paying for anything via this site certain company by the name of PalPay so always just used to avoid going down that route anyway and put my trust in a person who is coming over turn up and pie before we even entered the Claypit area

Nothing. Your sessions are totally your business and have nothing to do with our billing system at all. But financial institutions can't really assume that's true. They assess their risks based on the *whole business* they are considering.

Officers have already taken a look at our forums and I was told that there were existing posts in the Personals forum that they construed as escort services because they were paid sessions. As a result, the contract that I will have to sign has been modified to promise that I won't allow sessions even in the social networking areas.

This isn't just a store system; it's also a forum where people are free to post cynicism all day long, sometimes directed at our own site, and I pay to host it for all to read. As a result I also have to give you much more insight into these very private business matters than probably any other site owner would, in hopes that you'll really understand what's going on. I hope you believe that I would not introduce some new rule if I didn't have to. It's all a pain in the ass to me too.

When I sign these contracts with billers and 3rd party services, I have to respect their terms the same way you have to respect mine when posting to UMD.

The things ya gotta do to eat...

So, on your profile just say something like "please see my profile on x site for more information meetups etc." right?




Right? Since their "business" is literally the transactions of currency, it kind of makes their "private rules" into "laws". When they give you the ol "If you don't like the terms, don't use the service" and the "service" is getting your paycheck or buying food, you kinda don't really have any options do ya?

Conflate that with the fact that the people who own the banks and card companies aren't exactly "elected", but rather just rich owners or shareholders, it kinda makes it like like serfdom.

I totally understand what you're saying and that your hands are tied as much as minor by being on this site that you own

How would it work then with regards to what candy is saying about her list so I was on at one point if she was to recreate it and then finally how would I don't be allowed to mention that I am on that list in one way or another on this forum but with the fact that I would be sending people to another site by promoting it here still be against the rules

Asking for a friend

So it's a no no if a model outright says they're offering sessions for money...but can a model be like "I'm going to be in New York City, for the weekend for sessions! Contact me for info!" While they don't technically say they're doing it for money, it is implied...kind of a gray area? Probably the only way I'll find out about sessions is them being advertised in some form on here. Or if Candy's list gets compiled. It'll probably never happen again anyways haha.

Ok,so if anyone wants to lick nacho cheese off of my caboose, get at me privately!

Technically you might be right, but we've got to be really careful. If you have like a store and some sites, and you're out here saying contact me for private sessions, that won't fly. We're not gonna try to be slick like that, so we might only allow the mention of meet-ups and sessions within a non-commercial context. As always we're not given hard rules except that we cannot allow the advertisement of private sessions here. If they think that's what we're doing then they won't work with us.


Like Soundguy said, there's plenty to blame on the politicians for suppressing our industry over the decades. But not every problem we face is the result of this. I believe that this particular headache is them covering their financial asses. Sessions are probably worse than gambling for the chargebacks. Remember we even banned session tours years ago because people were getting ripped off left and right. We're not asking any bank to bill for sessions, but they don't want to risk working with a site that might potentially do that anyway.


I support Candy doing such a thing, but sadly it must be wholly contained there as its own directory. We can link to it as a wam site, but we can't advertise that it's about paid sessions, and you can't advertise that you're listed there for that reason. It's good to have other directories that can do things that we can't.


It would be obvious to 100% of everyone that it's being done for money... so no.

I'll send you the form - you were on my old listings before I had to close it, you can be the first one on the new one

I have good SEO so anyone googling looking for a session should find the page and therefore you, no problem

Anyone that comes directly to you on umd - cool

Anyone googling it will find my page and follow whatever contact method you ask for on there

Anyone asking on UMD will get nixed, but - maybe the generic message from admin could be 'we advise you to google it' or something like that. ??

Thanks

More importantly I need people to send the form to anyone who offers sessions, otherwise the directory will have about 3 people on it

Here's the form - I put the disclaimers directly on the form to make it a bit easier
https://forms.wix.com/f/7006281102658634039

if it depends on me chasing around people who do sessions and asking them to be on there, it's not gonna happen, and I just think people don't give enough of a shit to actually do that and do SW'ers and providers out there a favour

I have added disclaimers that can deflect the whining I was getting last time.

we'll see if anyone actually helps me by taking 2 mins to go get the form and send it to the people they know do sessions.

With this and all the other things over the past few months, I can see the demise of UMD approaching due to various regulations and new rules etc.

Sad day and not the 25th anniversary one was hoping for.

UMD should just switch to crypto payments and be done with this regulatory bullshit. Introducing the photo ID requirement was bad enough - where will it end?

>This isn't going to be popular, but I'm actually surprised UMD which is based in the US was able to allow this for so long since SESTA-FOSTA.

>Getting people to switch to crypto payment is an uphill battle or pornhub's clip store wouldn't have gone totally defunct.

Anything that has what's deemed adult content and takes payments is under scrutiny and the stuff that's policed at threat of being unable to process payments is really shitty and stupid. On other sites, I get words flagged ALL the time regardless of context. Not to mention keeping up with content restrictions that are different sites trying to keep up with the vague list from Mastercard.

If this bothers you and you live in the US, then I recommend looking into EFF and other organizations that fight for free speech and raising awareness of censorship online from credit card companies. https://www.eff.org/

And also repealing SOSTA-FESTA. Sex workers who use the internet to advertise or sell and adult online vendors are all affected by this AND people who have content for purely educational purposes that happens to be adult. Plus more backwards regulations keeps getting proposed. The choice here is literally UMD no longer be able to accept any payments and shut down or sacrifice the messy meet personals.

Every time someone complains how hard it is to find certain services or certain porn genres, I wish they knew how little choice the regulators give when they decide to crack down on something.

It's all got me thinking about the old days a bit. I read Cynthia Paynes autobiography - back in the soho days when sex workers would advertise french lessons and somehow everyone knew that meant oral sex - the term 'french' is still used today in some places.

Anyway. Code words.

It's not even really actually a code word, more something more descriptive and less ominous/adult sounding than sessions, but could folk advertise pie making lessons, or gunge tank etiquette workshops?

As that's pretty much what it amounts to in plenty of sessions I've done and hosted where all are fully clothed and there's no sexual aspect at all. It's just taking part in a silly gameshow scenario, and I'm really clumsy...

Can I email you directly some questions about this please?

When I had a session with Sky, she referred to it as an "experience day". This is analogous to driving a car around a (closed!) race track or going in a hot air balloon.

To be fair, once somebody had booked a session with us most did actually turn up. We probably had more models not turn up than people for sessions to be fair.

We did have a huge amount of people text weird stuff or keep making enquiries but would never book a session though.

Looking at other comments I guess there is such a broad range of what a session entails its difficult for the Credit card company to look at it individually. We never had any sexual element to our sessions and it was purely a fun opportunity to have a go in a Gunge Tank or Dunk Tank. We never even had models for those sessions where as the other end of the spectrum caters for a more sexual need.

I fully get why MM has had to impose this and thanks Candy for picking up a site where people can still find sessions.

You're welcome, I'll create your listing tomorrow



Jayce was the emailing questions message to me or MM? (or anyone else)

If it was to me you can email candywamcustard@gmail.com anytime

Damn man, so it's like that??


Nobody really uses crypto though. We NEED the major credit card infrastructure. Also, the photo ID requirement has actually grown on me. It's still a pain, but I do like knowing that I've personally verified the ID of people uploading explicit content here.


Regulators never miss a chance to do us dirty, but I also think it's important to not misdiagnose the problem. In this case I don't believe it's regulators. It's the bank not wanting chargebacks. Companies that offer adult merchant accounts are set up offshore to get away from some of these regulations, but they still want to protect their bottom line, and chargebacks are expensive and can get THEIR account cut off. I don't think anybody can make a workable business case for billing for sessions. I certainly wouldn't bill for them or customs based on everything I've seen, so I really can't blame them... THIS time


No, I don't think so. If it was as easy as just switching the verbiage then everybody wanting to circumvent the rules would just do that. So please no nod-nod, wink-wink. We've got to be 100% legit. If you wanted to post a personal about meeting up and doing those things that would be fine, but advertising a whole "workshop" open to the general public on a fetish site is pretty obvious. I can't really sit here and think of every scenario, but basically if it can be construed as meeting up to do a fetish session in a way that looks like you might make money, we can't allow that. The easy way out would be to disallow mention of ANY meet-ups, but that's not my style.


And they don't know us from a can of paint. They don't know how integrated the forums are (or aren't) with the stores, or which producers are actually affiliated with us vs just advertising for off-site stuff. So they only want to sign on clients where the whole thing is just clean. Over the years as we obtain and use various 3rd party services and bank accounts, we will need to have all our stuff in order. We can't always just do whatever we want.

Oh, this wasn't intended to push the envelope or anything like that. I think we just need to establish clear and legal wording that people can use here to indicate that they are open to or allow in person meets, whatever those proper terms may be. What happens at said meet isn't our business.

I think it's a double edged sword. UMD has over the years gone from being purely a messaging board back in the early days to quite a fancy forum with the ability to share photos easily. From there we now have the benefit of hosting videos for sale, which in the early days was mainly producers. This has moved on to allow almost anybody with a smart phone to create and sell content. We have the ability to run advertising on the forum which in turn sells those very video clips.

Personally I think its fantastic that UMD has developed so far and has created a one stop shop for anything Wet and Messy but the downside of this is MM has to comply with the rules of one aspect of the site, ie to sell Videos we can't then be advertising sessions. Its far from the demise, its just progression and having to comply with the rules of progression.

And UMD doesn't have to be the only directory! There used to be lots of other link sites and forums out there and we would support them all. I think those should come back in some form or another. But even they have to be careful about the sessions because there is a lot of overlap in the TOS's of hosting and billing companies. Nobody seems to allow advertising anything that can be construed as possible prostitution (actual prostitution, not just modeling for sex work). Plus you have to moderate your posters and make sure they're not actually doing that.

DMU.net - The Directory of Messy Ultimatums

I totally respect that MM has to meet compliance rules.
It's just sad.
Are the "moral majority" just concerned with prostitution?
Oh, dear.
Years ago, Edinburgh, near where I live, was a hotbed of street prostitution.
Several girls were murdered.
The enlightened local authority allowed many, "Saunas" to have entertainment licenses.
These establishments offered safe sex in a controlled environment.
The "moral guardians" have been vociferous in their condemnation.
Maybe they prefer that vulnerable young ladies are abused and even murdered.
I just wish that they would keep their, "God" to themselves.
I visited one of these establishments.
I met a delightful young lady.
I never even touched her. It was nice just to talk.
She wanted to go out for dinner, but I was married at the time.
Is it not too much to ask for us on UMD to be left alone?
Peter