can only speak for myself and did not read through the whole threat so I'm sorry if I am just an echo. I have purchased probably more than 100 videos over the years and have commissioned at least a half dozen. I have purchased what appeals to me and have never shared illegally. The videos I commissioned have all been as good or better than I imagined or hoped because I was specific in what I wanted and the producers really tried to accommodate me. One producer declined my proposal but he was honest about why. That's all you can ask. What I'm saying is this is a good group of guys (and women), decent people catering to the community and as others have said, re-investing.

It's sad what is happening but just another breakdown in civility and consideration. I put it in the same category of parking in the handicapped zones illegally, driving around school buses with the lights on, etc. People only care about themselves these days and feel entitled to ignore the rules and common decency.

These days, many of us have downloaded an mp3 or an illegal copy of a major motion picture, even though we know it is wrong. Personally, if something appeals to me, I will go out and purchase it, rather than settle for a poor-quality illegal copy. I want the extras, such as bloopers, behind the scenes, etc. that you can't get with a pirated movie.
I noticed some wam producer's material on other sites, such as YouTube, and actually signed up with one of the producers for a membership. My LEGAL copies of the videos are clear and high quality, and I can sleep at night, knowing i am helping to support our industry..
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I encounter an illegal file of a video, song, or wam producer's work, I will simply skip through it to see if it appeals to me. If it does, I purchase from the producer. If stuff is 'out there' and I stumble upon it, I consider it a sample which helps me make a decision to purchase the authentic copy. I know some will just download the illegal copies, but i use them as samples so I can then support the producer financially when I like what I see.

Consuela from Family Guy chimes in on illegal video sharing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w_XuOBnUAg

International treaties cover all the basic copyright infringements we're talking about here in just about all jurisdictions - it's ENFORCEMENT that's the problem.

Also, as Leonmoomin and Dungeonmaster asserted, you buy the right to watch the content, not to copy or distribute or make changes to it.

Another matter to clarify is that when you buy an official DVD or hard copy media although you do not have the right to copy or distribute it, you are permitted to sell that AUTHENTIC item on intact and unchanged as produced by the owner. This is only allowed to happen because, it does not involve reproduction or profligate distribution of the material. You are selling this artifact as an 'ORIGINAL'.

With downloads and soft media there is no such original artifact in existence for the consumer, every instance is a COPY and you, as the consumer, buy the right to SEE it with your fee. You don't even own your copy of it - you have a DISPENSATION to hold a PRIVATE image of it STRICTLY for your own use. You only have a copy at all because it happens to be the reasonable means through which you view it.

Piracy and underselling is the slow death of everything. The perpetrators do not care if they can get away with it. There's so much we can fight and so much we have to learn to live with. Streaming is probably the best way forward - paying to do so - but making access easy once purchased and - importantly- not granting a retrievable copy to the consumer.

On a positive note, and what separates us from the rest of the adult industry, is the fact that people contact us to let us know where our stuff is being pirated so we can drop a DMCA.

I fucking LOVE that.

To all those that do it, thank you. You guys rock.

I just dropped an idea into the Store Owners forums for y'all to check out... could be both cathartic and useful.

Yes! That part is cool.

"I mean I'll admit to not knowing where to start with torrenting something- I think you need that firefox addon that lets you get on the darkweb? And even if I did know how there is no gaurantee what i'm getting- Could be the latest scene or could be some virus infested thing. "


Unfortunately torrenting is a lot easier than this (Ill admit to using it for films/tv shows, didnt even know there was wam stuff around until this post). Nowadays takes merely seconds and little to no chance of a virus if done correctly. The dark web is something a lot lot different

This reads like im about to start looking for and torrenting wam now, dw wasnt meant in that way

But what to do? I've contacted sites that have my content posted illegally several times and they refuse to remove my videos.

I'll never settle for streaming for most mainstream media ... and I certainly won't do so for the spankbank. If any wam producer switched to this model they'd lose my business, even if they were shooting top-level mud content.

Lets be real. Piracy hurts WAM producers harder just because of the overhead. I could shoot clips for months without incurring any cost. Every WAM scene I shoot the mess is expensive, the cleanup takes time and it burns a huge hole in my day for shooting other things with the model. I can shoot 10 fetish scenes or 3 or 4 fetish scenes and a messy one.

You're on point there. The choice of videos uploaded to Pornhub are usually, well, just for porn. To those that this site caters to any fetish stuff is just fluff to the fucking, blowjobs, shlicking, or scissoring, so any WAM producer that incorporates plenty of explicit porn run a higher risk of having their content pirated. Messygirl and MPV are obvious targets exactly because they have higher proportions of pornographic material in their library.

Anything less runs the risk of being disliked more if there isn't enough sexy content to masturbate to, which is why it's much harder to find more traditional, non-sexual WAM on Pornhub. Any that you do find amount to a negligible fraction of the producer's total releases (Hell, even Messyfun's content have been pirated at least 20 times and it still barely scratches the surface of what it offers because video pirates only fixate on the "sexiest" videos that they find). Either that, or it's simply harder to find them due to terrible tagging practices as few video pirates bother to label their videos beyond vague titles or raw filenames.

Btw, @leonmoomin, how bad have you need affected by Pornhub?

Wouldn't it be possible for the larger producers to group up into a union of sorts that could represent themselves on larger sites?

Must admit I agree with you on that. As I said in a previous discussion, I want to know I can still access my content when there's no network, mains power is off, the room is lit by candles and I'm charging my laptop by a stationary-bike-driven dynamo. Plus of course wam producers come and go all the time, even the biggest names eventually move on, and if people are relying on streaming, what happens when an ex-producer's sites shut down? That's why I've always told people if they like something, buy it, buy it now. Go without a few beers or coffees or cokes if necessary, more drinks will always be there, that "hits all the buttons hard" wam scene may be gone forever by next week.

People have voiced pro-piracy opinions on here before since this issue has been brought up a few times in the past. I also have friends who admit to never paying for porn and the arguments are usually the same. It's either "it's not stealing since I wasn't going to pay for it anyway" or "why should I pay for something I can get for free". People also think that since they are not removing a physical object like shoplifting then they are not really stealing and therefor it's ok. But as people have pointed out wam videos are incredibly expensive and time consuming to produce so these pro-piracy arguments don't justify piracy.

I mooted it as a possible (partial) solution to the pirating problem - but I personally don't like it any more than you do. I want my own copy in my archive - for all the reasons above.

Im insulted no one thinks my content is good enough to steal! Damn it!

Your content rocks.. I think they fear you'll come after them...

I would consider it my honor & duty to steal from you, MyPieRogative.

It's honestly probably not "porn" enough. I had the similar "problem," thank goodness. (Although there was one site that shall remain nameless... About 10 guys were uploading all kinds of content, including some of mine. We played "whack a mole" with their links, and Noise would go on there and taunt them. Good times. Eventually the uploaders went to more sexual explicit stuff.)

I would check YouTube. That's a vast source of PG-rated WAM but at least you can get copyrighted material pulled down quick. Once in a while someone will make a "tribute" of sorts to my videos (like a music video or quick montage) and that's fine. I treat it as free advertising. But entire chunks of scenes? Those get pulled.

Well, I would steal your scenes, Rich!

I mean, someday, I'd get around to it.

well, here's the guy that is posting my shit on pornhub. CranMan1188
...unfortunately, he hasn't been on here under that name since last december. chances are he has a new name and is still around. any way to find out, messmaster?

BTW. I notice a lot of people mentioning 'intellectual property' in this thread. We are talking about very simple statutory copyright theft i.e. the unauthorised distribution and or sale of motion pictures (whole or in part etc.). The problem is compliance and enforcement.

Intellectual property deals with the ownership of ideas (cans of worms) and it mainly relies on civil courts law cases around precedents. It can be extremely nuanced and deal with intangible, non material notions around invention, useage and brand. This would be the case if we were arguing about rights to the concept of the 'gunge tank' or of the 'pie sandwich'.

Awe but that's Candys video!!!! Haha

While I do not pirate WAM stuff because I do believe the people making the stuff I like deserve the money for it. I think that the anti-pirate campaign that is being fought from many industries is going about things the wrong way. The person downloading the item did not pay for the item and upload it to a site somewhere. They did not hack onto a server and steal it. They did not sit in a theater and record it. Yet they are the ones that the industry is going after and tracks. When I have gotten notices before from my ISP it has been because I was downloading something NOT uploading. That is where the focus needs to be. The people that are posting the content. Personally, I think that like the recent Oscar watermark thing that happened, the MPAA and RIAA are finding that it is higher up employees that are uploading the content and they do not want to go after their own. Yes a producer could go through the trouble of watermarking each video to a user name and then track the credit card information of the pirated content and go after the user. The person would probably grab a prepaid card and go again if they are not using one already. But you would be able to match a name or an alias and keep track of that information. I am not sure if sites will give you the information of the person uploading as far as email account or IP address, but it would be worth looking into and then tracking the IP's on the sites or email accounts. Yeah I realize that you can create a fake email account in 5 minutes and that it takes maybe 10 minutes to install the tor browser to mask your IP address. I don't think the people posting the content are going to those lengths. I think because they don't care, they are using the same IP address to access the sites as they are using to upload the content.

I have to admit: I never thought of WAM as an "industry".

Few people consider the amount of work that happens in the WAM factories to keep it all going. Those chimneys are going 24/7 to provide new scenes. And that's not to mention the people who risk their lives daily in the Gunge mines to bring us joy.

its a sad state of affairs nowdays where downloading illegal copies is the norm for assholes who dont like paying up.not just here but films etc and yet the greedy download sites just seem to be getting away with it.for all us people who genuinely are honest fair working types it seems criminal we dont take on these organisations due to all the loopholes they find.id like to think one day there will be a massive crackdown but until it happens to someone high profiled i doubt it

Intellectual Property covers copyright, trademark, and patent. These are all types of intellectual property, which are treated differently.

Copyright infringement deals with unauthorized distribution of material.

Trademark infringement deals with designs and colors associated with a certain entity. A lot of different things can be trademarked, from images, to designs, to colors, to fonts. Our UMD Carmella is probably a trademark, and if not, I recommend MessMaster do so.

Patent Infringement deals with invention and processes. A gunge tank can be patented. A slime recipe can be patented.

There's nothing hypocritical about supporting producers and posting your stuff for free. The two are not mutually exclusive.

As a content producer (which you are), you can set your own price for people to access your content. You decide what your own break-even point is. Even if it's just to share for free something you did.

Also, just because you don't charge for your content doesn't mean you aren't covered by copyright protect. It would be just as illegal for me to repost one of your videos as you reposting mine. It has nothing to do with money, per se, it's just it's very correlated with money. You still have to exclusive right to make and distribute copies, hence your copy-right. You have say on where it goes, with or without profit.