"Most importantly, however, UMD is in the business of selling promiscuity, fun, and filth. By default you attract morons, scumbags, weirdos and perverts."

Did somebody call me?

- No, but they are in the VAST majority, which is what THIS thread is about.


- That's just it...not all males are "men" there are a lot of "boys" here. You are right, men are abused too, so go create a thread on male abuse, no one is stopping you.


- That's like saying a car dealership which is in the business of selling...well automobiles DOESN'T attract morons, scumbags, weirdos, and perverts. It's not acceptable behavior there, and it's not here. No one is surprised to find people engaging in harassment, we just want them to stop.



- "Violent implications" are PRECISELY why consent is so important here! Just because someone may use the word "obliterated" for instance, maybe describing Zeta's most recent video; does in no way mean she has been removed from this plane of existence. The people with the serious problems you mentioned are the ones who cannot separate REALITY from FANTASY. You are lumping everything together. As another mentioned GOT, your argument would mean that said fans supported incest and horrific acts of violence.



- There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING "democratic" about this forum. There are terms and conditions we all have to accept to be here. It is a site owned by Messmaster, and he can do whatever he wants with it; including deciding he's had enough with this shit and shutting the whole thing down.


- Again, consent. Again, context is key. If you saw something that was that repulsive on the wall, why didn't you A. Report it if it's against ToS, or B. leave?


- Humanity is one great big paradox.


- There still are, and you just proved you aren't one of them. Also, some women are tired of being treated as "ladies", some want to be treated as "human". Also, since it's a fetish forum, we have men that want to be treated as babies, or little girls. We have women that want to be treated as men. We have trans people, we have non-binary people, etc. REALITY goes far beyond your or my perceptions.

P-man, you are absolutely right!!!! MM could say fuck this and let a few people ruin things for the majority.

Something that might be a little easier is an invite only section. Where the owners and producers get together and decide who can be invited to see their work and comment on new things. There could be the regular messy and wet sections etc that talk about what is new and may put clips in there or appreciation thread stuff like there is now. Make the invite only list a group that people can choose to only receive messages from people in the group. I know it would be extra work, but it would be a good way to control who is seeing the work and able to comment without having to worry about blocking so many people. Start backwards so to say and block everyone and then allow only certain people.

Although this is probably a great idea, not all of us having issues are owners / producers or models, some of us are just here to chat and have fun, and just being able to block individuals who wont leave us alone, and who are spoiling our time here, is all some of us would like

MessFan, I apologize. I had not thought that other users were being harassed as well. I did not even consider it. I dunno what we can do to fix this for everyone.

Female sexuality is really complicated because it's mostly mental, not as physical as you guys get it (from what I understand). It's why we're more fluid in our sexuality, I think, and can get attracted to women when we're usually straight as an arrow. I can't explain for everyone, just for myself. Here it goes.

For me, the humiliation and embarrassment part is an excuse to have something done to me that I'm too ashamed to admit publicly that I want. Because we get shamed for our sexual behavior so easily, we have to hide parts of our sexual desires, even from partners sometimes. For me, a fantasy is for my clothes to be accidentally destroyed or me to get stripped naked in public without my planning it. I'm too shy to strip myself but if someone does it for me without my asking, then I can live my fantasy.

So for WAM, being gunged horribly in public and being barraged with pies and all that stuff in front of friends, if it's done out of a "let's humiliate her!" script, it makes it nonsexual to the outside viewer and makes it look like I'm not enjoying it. Reality is that my parts are just dripping with excitement in the literal sense but no one things I am. It can let me experience sexual pleasure that I'm ashamed to let anyone know I have.

I don't like being called names or being hit, but some girls do like a bit of rough stuff. To each her own. I'll just say again that it's complicated. Sorry you guys have such a puzzle to figure out!

swooon!!

We are complicated, it is true. But I think anyone who is worth their weight in sugarcookies is as well. Even the boys. Some of them.

If the "humiliation" is consented-to, or is roleplay, or in some other way consensual, then it's "play" (at least to me). If the source of its delivery is degradation, maliciousness, or some other dominance-without-consent thing, then it's in the category of abuse (hello, because not consensual).

In other words, it all boils down to consent, and I agree: more than a few men around here enjoy denying the woman consent, and that's where they get their jollies. That, as Shakespeare once said (I do believe), "Sucks.".

It's actually quite simple if you think about it. You want to have something happen to you that you are too ashamed to do yourself for whatever reason (public opinion, the law, etc.) By having someone else as you mentioned strip you naked in public, you get the thrill of it having happened while watching the cops tackle the guy that did it to you. Simply put, you weren't responsible for it, therefore you can't be held accountable etc. You get the full release of your fantasy without the shame of people thinking your weird etc for having done it yourself.

I don't think that is unusual or sick or anything of the sort.

Nail, absolutely on the head. We desperately need a block function. We then need to look at how to stop people just creating multiple accounts but I believe the mods and MM already have tools "backstage" for that. But people need to be able to block harassers.


Agree about not being weird about it, but even though I only shoot strictly fully clothed, I make a big point of making sure all the girls I shoot with know exactly what the footage is for, that it's fetish, and that it's also my fetish. Thing is it's possible to do that without being weird or creepy.

In my case I'm often introduced to potential new models by mutual friends so they're already partly aware of what I do, but even then I have a Word document that spells everything out in detail, including that these are fetish shoots and most of the customers are men who get aroused seeing fully clothed women getting messy, and I send that to prospective new models so they know exactly what they are getting into. It also assures them of professional conduct at all times and that friends, chaperones, etc, are welcome (and will usually be roped into helping open or mix stuff). And as a bonus, because they already understand the material is fetish, they're not phased when I want to take more intimate shots as they get messy.


This is why we need a block function. The inability of female members to protect themselves from getting bombarded by creeps is probably both why the problem never seems to get better and why we have so few long term female members. I don't think the creeper aspect is specific to wam, just that the tools to deal with it are missing here.


Eeep. I was once told by a friend that some American guys go for British girls because over here we often don't have perfect teeth - imperfect teeth being a fetish of its own. She said that in the US dentistry is paid-for, expensive, and it's normal for models to have work done to ensure a perfectly even, straight smile, and fillings are the more expensive white versions. In the UK dentistry is free or subject to just a token charge, but doesn't cover cosmetic treatments, so while we mostly have healthy teeth we mainly use amalgam fillings and only do enough to ensure health, rather than aesthetic perfection.

WHKAEGKLJERG"PHLS:EJGK :flips desk:

WHAT!!!? Its like $150 just to get in the door over here. Dental insurance is it's own thing because no one sees it as a legitimate medical practice. Fuck, we can sometimes get chiropractic or accupuncture covered...Dental...NO that its OWN insurance! I'm pretty sure I need at least 3 fillings or so and probably a root canal...but the last time I was at a dentist it cost me $1,200 WITH insurance for ONE root canal! And that was 10 years ago!!!

Ahahahaha ... bad teeth boners!!!

I've known Rule 34 since it was instituted, so how am I still surprised by weird fetishes?!

We're all covered by the National Health Service over here. That is, of course, one of the advantages of *all* wage earners paying in at source, so that economies of scale can be enjoyed and, thus, *everyone* gets healthcare free at the point of need (or with just a small nominal charge for dental work, for those not on social benefits or retired etc), when and where it's required, from one of the most efficient health care systems in the world. No cash needed. Interestingly, the US has one of the highest cost systems but falls well short on all the performance outcomes. Basically, you're getting fleeced by your private providers. (This is why British people are so opposed to privatisation of the NHS, which the current government is gradually pushing through for the benefit of their corporate friends, bit by bit.) Anyway, here's your evidence - just read the key findings paragraph:
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Publications/Fund-Reports/2017/Jul/Mirror-Mirror-International-Comparisons-2017

..... but we digress! (... and now back to the main feature ....)

To go back on topic. In a couple other threads I noticed recently there were disparaging comments made to producers art styles, and or attributes of a model. Something simple as another "love" button but along the lines of a "scumbag" button may go a long way.

Can we have a Scumbag of the Day?

We need UMD to vote on which one of us is Scumbag of the Year.

Oh it's totally you.

There is a "flag" button which you can use to report bad behavior.

While I cannot speak for the UMD since I don't participate or read most threads (I prefer the more mainstream side of WAM to the professional side so I'll only really read and post in those threads), I certainly have seen my fair share of female harassment by certain community members. This has been most obvious on Twitter where people like Jake Hammond (Who I believe is now suspended from the platform), RunninRebel (@YankeeRunnerLV) and @Snownut182 (Who I suspect may be an alt account of RunninRebel) tweet at various female personalities and even complete strangers asking them to get gunged/pied/slimed in shockingly non-subtle and blatant ways. It's honestly disgusting that they continuously harass these people day in, day out and their feeds are full of these tweets. It's also terrible when they tweet under the guise of charity (e.g. "you should do this pie challenge") just so these women can satisfy their WAM desires. Another one who constantly pops up is Anthony Abelardo who must be one of the creepiest guys I've seen in this community. He literally comments on every single female pie video on YouTube (And upon googling his name I see he has now started moving to Twitter) usually with some disgusting undertones. He even made a home video where he somehow convinced two girls to let him pie them and it's honestly just abhorrent, I won't post the link here but its not hard to find if you can stomach how creepy it is.

Another thing to note is that as someone who uploads mainstream WAM videos, I have refrained from posting many because I feel it will cause undue harassment from the more disgusting members of the community towards the people in the videos. The main reason being that most of the people in these videos are easily reachable on social media meaning it's more likely that they will see such comments and messages (As opposed to someone like Jake Hammond hopelessly tweeting at celebrities with millions of followers). I feel that I shouldn't need to do this as people should just be able to watch the video, enjoy it for what it is and move on. But obviously, this is not the case with the WAM community.

Anyway that's just my thoughts and what I've seen outside of UMD. I hope this thread results in positive changes being put in place to make female users more comfortable in using this site.

I've said it before: We should all chip in and take out a hit on these guys.

After reading all these comments i am now very seriously contemplating in removing my profile and all photo's completely from this site.

I must admit i have never in all the years i have been a member here experienced hassle or any form of abuse,(they would get it straight back anyway,i DONT take shit)

I do however have a very sensitive job that i cannot risk and if this is the way UMD is going then i will have to re-asses.

I have noticed myself over the years that the whole thing here has gone from being a bit of slapstick so to speak and wallowing around clothed in mud which i love to quite a full on sexual and worse thing which to be honest with all here just isnt my thing,so perhaps it is time to go anyway.

Kisses

Chantelle xxxxx

A flag button is anonymous, but a scumbag "heart" lets everyone in the world see who and how many people think a certain post is scum.

Think....this

I'm curious...where are the mods in this discussion? Apart from a couple of comments early on, they seem to have stepped out of the room. Lots of great ideas and discourse in this thread. Are talks taking place behind the scenes?

A girl wonders...

I don't know, Mrs Bee. But, I'm about to go kicking some doors in, like a really sexy one man force of justice.

You're gonna get yourself in so much twubble once Mrs. Bee gets her badge.

This is incredible.

Seconded - this is well worth a watch.

To me there is nothing wrong with naming and shaming. Don't let the asshole hide anymore. That is something I look at with the women who come out with the horrid things said to them and blur out the names. These people need to be exposed for the wretched people they are. There have been quite a few what happened to threads about models that have stopped making content and in some cases just disappeared. No one should be harassed or made to feel uncomfortable to the point that they would rather not go someplace they enjoy because of the messages they get.

Then don't ever lecture animal rights vegans or climate activists or ANYBODY to not name and shame against somebody doing unnecessary harm, for THEIR causes.

Minimizing unwanted sexual advances is just a cause, just like ANY OTHER cause.

I ALREADY don't rape or sexually assault children or women or men.
But that doesn't make me or anyone else who doesn't sexually assault better than someone who does.
Having a law against something (such as unsolicited nonconsensual sex)
does NOT make that event (unwanted nonconsensual sex) "worse" than than events that are legal (nonconsensual birthing)

UNLESS you allow childfree vegans to ALSO shame meat-eaters and ovepopulators and people who vote republican or democrat, to shame and punish those force millions to live in poverty and to die by giving BILLIONS to Wall Street, and actively obstruct action on AGW, and for us to say we ARE better than breeders and meat-eaters.

I don't tolerate hypocritical cherrypicking about how much punishment I'm supposed to dole out against someone just based upon somebody else's favorite cause.

I'm beginning to suspect Zoidberg is a long-game "men's rights" troll trying to make harassing women OK by convincing us it's equivalent to eating meat or voting for the logical choice.