To add to this, don't fucking PM me trying to guess who it is.

Jack Howe: I think most of your suggestions are good, and can go a long way to diminishing stalkers/harassers...as I said in my post, an ID requirement would be resisted by many ...another improvement would be that all registrants have a valid email (that's been in use for more than some minimum period of time, like 6 months or so)....there is no perfect solution, but some help minimize the pool of jerks (like the 'Not a robot' programs in many comments sections).

One note: a good sysadmin/sysop can track a comment / post (from a registered user) to its nearest main server/hub -- maybe not specific enough for an exact location, but close enough to verify city of origin, at least in the US (this approach, plus one other bit of evidence, once helped me ID a video pirate of my work).

First of all... DungeonMasterOne, thank you for the shout-out. That original post is here, BTW: https://umd.net/forums/what_happened_to_nickiand3babi

Kind of a sidebar note... above and beyond being inappropriate, embarrassing, and generally having a chilling effect on female participation on the UMD, a lot of the male behavior we're talking about here is part of a larger trend, IMHO.

Specifically... I've noticed that there's a certain percentage of the overall Internet population that honestly believes every single thing on the Internet is there purely for their entertainment. Every blog, every website, every video, everything -- it's all paid for by their exorbitant $39.95-per-month (I have no idea why the forum thinks that's a URL) ISP fee (fill in your own local currency as needed) and they're damn well going to get their money's worth. These people have no awareness of community. They don't "give back", they don't subscribe, they don't post positive comments -- they just sprawl in front of their computers/tablets/phones like debauched, corpulent Roman emperors and demand an unceasing stream of entertainment, neither understanding nor caring where it comes from or what it takes to make it. It's a self-perpetuating phenomenon, and the people who do it don't care if we call them out on it -- they simply tune us out and move on to other, less confrontational entertainment.

1. Have you ever bought anything here? If you have, guess what, you've already handed over your personal information. your name, your address, your phone number, credit card number, etc. It's on file now, and there is no damn excuse why it shouldn't be used to protect someone else if that user decides to to be aggressive. To put this simpler, why not make UMD a membership? Just like having VIP, just make regular membership a one time payment of $1 or something. Then you have to join with a card. Bam, now your information is in. Every PM can be pulled up by MM. If someone for example were to harass and threaten a model over a custom or session, they would submit to M or a moderator. They would review the message with the user, and decide whether or not to contact the police. The username would be tied to the card info used to create the account, also the IP.

2. Removing gender profiles. This is why a lot of people don't put a gender or any pics up. Nothing really needs to be changed here. You choose your own level of involvement and security here. Hell, you can be a woman and pose as a man if you want. And again, if someone did this for the intent of harassing someone, the real identity is on file.

Now, none of this fixes anything if the identity is stolen, but it makes it MORE secure.

For those who thing its an attack on their liberties or something...well they have the choice to not join too.

I just wanted to say thank you for raising this point, I literally had to have a talk to Messy_miss just the other day as the number of people who out of the blue message her with "hi, I want pieing" followed by "I'm horny" and even references to her doing naughty things... it seems her telling people she isn't actually single doesn't stop them trying either!

Much as others have said, we've been working on reading people's behaviours to work out when to just ignore them but when it's the first message it's a bit tricky!

It's just a bit sad, she came here to share in some slapstick fun and share the results with the rest of you... not to be expected to bend over upon request from a stranger :-S

Again, thank you for raising awareness on this, a very important matter for all to understand! And not just the creeps out there, the gentlemen too (to whom there are many of you, we mustn't forget!) who may spot the unreasonable behaviour and help to deal with those who aren't so understanding...

Sez the guy whose avatar is Mrs. Bee on a plastic sheet.

#WrappedInPlastic

Well said!

I did offer her my John Cena blanket.

It would certainly sieve out a lot of shitheads real quick.

Long time lurker here and I rarely post but I had to put in my little $.02. I'm the type that will buy a video from a producer here and there, when I see something that tickles my fancy. Like many I feel I have to keep it low key to protect my identity from going main stream to employers and/or people who might not understand or feel some reason they have a right into intruding into my personal life and thus making it public.

That being said, I have been a moderator on a number of sites, ranging from a Golf club to Cos-play sights to Fan sites put up by artists. In my experience two things are an absolutely MUST for any messaging system:

1. The ability to 'ignore/block' a user that is giving you grief. In this case the offender gets the message that they are blocked. The downside is people will simply create a new account, perhaps under a new IP and start their shenanigans all over again. This leads to the second solution.

2. A 'mute' button. It is like the ignore/block function and like the Twitter option, it prevents you from seeing their posts and replies but doesn't notify the offender that you aren't seeing their messages. If they email you, it goes through on your end but never shows up in your mailbox. This person will get the idea that you may be ignoring them but they can rant/rave all they want, you won't see it. The downside is if they start ranting/raving about you, you won't see it, but hopefully the moderators are on top of those things and can take care of it as a violation to the terms of agreement.

Sadly outright banning is something that rarely works against the true problems, they simply make a new account, even if their ip address is blocked, they spoof another. One of the most effect tools against this is shadow banning (like twitter again). This shadow ban allows anyone who has friended them to see their posts, but NO one else will. They can post as much as they want and won't know that others won't see their posts unless it is someone who is already following/friended them. Should a person defriend them, they stop seeing the messages.

These last two options are subtle, offer no notification to the offender and is about avoiding conflict. If a member has been muted, the admin won't take off a mute put on by another member. Period. Things like a shadow ban can be used as a 'time out' meaning a person can be shadow banned for a week, a month, a year and have it taken off at admin discretion.

Having an active community manager that has a job solely to monitor threads for violation of the rules and as a person anyone can come to discreetly if they have issues with another member is imperative. Being that most times people here are volunteering their time, it is position a few people should hold, with a private forum only accessible amongst themselves to talk about policies, procedures and best practices.

Of course if there are very few guidelines and fewer still enforcing them, things are going to get very rough in the end. So my suggestions:
1. Make sure you have a solid policy / procedures / set of rules VERY visible
2. Make sure you have enough staff to monitor the forums for issues to be handled in a timely manner. Many sites even have a ticket system so there is a legal record of conversations, actions, decisions, punishments, ect.
3. Have a BLOCK/IGNORE function available for all verified accounts.
4. Have a MUTE function available for all verified accounts.
5. Make sure decisions are made fairly with both parties listened to (where warranted)
6. Stick to your guns once decisions have been made.

If these tools do not exist I suggest that the owners/moderators look into getting them. If we need to update the Forums with plugins that enable these functions, set up a kickstarter or donations drive. I'm sure many will give you a dollar or two to help out.

I've just realized that there is no longer a list of mods/admins on the main page like their used to be. At one point we had 8 or 10 people actively sharing the duties across multiple time zones. Lately, I think it's just me, BosunBob, and Booth doing any moderating. A few of the others still come around occasionally, but some of the profiles of former mods have been deleted. Those of us still active cruise the forums as much as we can, but Derek has suggested that we take a slightly more "hands-off" approach to things that might be construed as "matters of opinion" than we did in the olden days. Regardless, a list of active mods would be a good idea somewhere on every page.

As others have suggested, being able to block, mute, & report from all areas of the site really needs to be a thing, but as many of the suggesters have failed to understand, that kind of functionality would add orders of magnitude more complexity, databases, and background processes to an already insanely complex programming environment. The store and streaming systems already forced expansion into multiple servers and load-balancing systems, yet some nights things are still creaking under the existing load.

I'd like to see it, but not at the expense of having things breaking down all the time. If Derek sees the wisdom in adding that kind of feature, he'll add it in due time. Personally, I'd also like to see something along the lines of the "karma" system that Reddit uses, allowing BOTH up and down scoring for threads, individual posts/DMs, and the poster themselves, with habitual low scores limiting certain types of access of trolls, idiots, and general scumbags.

I haven't been on the boards for a bit and haven't yet read this whole thread through, but I do want to say first and foremost THANK YOU bosunbob for making this post and for your efforts and interest in making this forum a more friendly place for women. It's true the UMD hasn't always been the most hospitable place for women and as a woman, I really appreciate some light being shone on this. I think acknowledging that there is a problem is a huge, huge step in and of itself, and hopefully your post makes at least a few people think twice about their behavior.

I think being able to block users and / or report inappropriate messages to the moderators would be practical steps to flag and curtail harassment. I also want to say it's meant a lot to me when other members here have stuck up for me and other women and helped to call out bad behavior on the forums when they've seen it. We are a community and are at our best when we support and look out for each other.

There are lots of crystal clear examples of harassment and general boorish behavior on the forums, both from the accounts of women here and just generally on display at any given time, so I don't really feel the need to pile on. I do want to say that I have met many absolutely incredible guys on here who have been nothing but respectful, kind, and considerate (even when we're talking dirty ), so all is not lost! xx

Ruh-roh!

The changes I would make would be

1) get rid of the genders, as this would make it difficult to know who is female and who isn't, levelling the playing field.

2) A name and shame system, in which if some one does some thing silly, and is asked to stop and doesn't, it's get reported to MM or another admin. After three strikes they get named in the forum in a sticky post. A bit of public rdicule might have them change their ways.

3) A block option would be good as suggested by others. Maybe even having a limited number of messages per day. Say five unless the person allows it.

So if you're wanting a custom from Ariel she can say yes to unlimited messages while you are working out a custom deal

This would only work if there was some reputation to harm. In most of the situations discussed here, the account is just used for their desired harassment purposes. Naming and shaming the account would be like taking a criminal's car and publicly ridiculing it in the town square as some sort of punishment for their crime.

I'm female, I first read UMD around 2000ish in college, I made an account a year and a half ago, and two weeks ago I finally uploaded a fully-clothed wetlook video. (Cautious, much? It only took 19 years!)

...So far, so good. I got a slew of friend requests and PG-rated compliments, mostly guys, but they were the utmost in respectful. Maybe a little more forward than, say, reactions to a video on YouTube, but when I'm posting a wetlook video on a site dedicated to that interest, I don't exactly consider a "that's sexy!" comment out of line in the least.

I talked with a few of my new friends about what they liked in the video, and questions about getting turned on and the possibility of filming future content in wet-t-shirt-style or partially nude arose, but they were phrased respectfully and well into the conversation, and when I explained how filming nude exceeded my comfort level, my convo partners respected that.

I think having a rather tame profile and only fully-clothed content might have had something to do with that, because UMDers read the profile and realized what I was down with and what I was not. But on the flip side, that doesn't mean that someone with more adult interests and topless videos on her profile should be subjected to a free-for-all of requests and come-ons, right down to demands to meet in person for sex.

*****

Treading very carefully here and I'm not singling any producers out, but I can't help but think there's a bit of a disconnect on the forums when we see clips advertised such as (fictional example!) "busty brunette takes a gunging and then a massive c---."

That kind of language is probably fine and good for selling a clip for its specific interests, but to those who have difficulty separating reality from fiction, it helps promote the idea that the subject of the clip is just a "type" and not an actual person we're watching. (Disclaimer: I understand it's possible to prefer a certain "look" that does it for you. That's fine, but it should be limited to clip-purchasing decisions. And I'm not trying to tell anyone on the UMD how to run their business, just pointing something out.)

Right now there's one posted by UMD (!) named "Slimewave Is Always There For Sluts". Bleh.

I think that a lot of men want to humiliate women, not just in a 'pie-in-the-face' kind of way, but in a real, disrespectful and hurtful way. Perhaps the desire to put women down is played out in the humiliation/wam fetish for those people. We are, after all, watching women get trashed, and for some, it is not far from treating those same 'targets' like trash. I think that is where the connection lies.

Having said that, there are other ways to think about this. For example, having a lot of respect for a woman who will get messy, as she's becoming vulnerable and often naked to fulfill a fantasy. Women coming here ought to be thanked or at least, highly respected for their courage to enter this messy zoo.

I don't get the humiliation thing either. As with *most* fetishes, though, there's probably a right way and a wrong way to indulge it.

I can recall one or two WAM videos I've purchased that made me feel actively uncomfortable because the model's distress at being pied/gunged/whatever was a little too real for my tastes. In a roundabout way, I guess that's a compliment to the model's acting skills.

These days I'm also wary of any video in which a woman is "put in her place" -- whether it's for smoking, or for sleeping with someone else's boyfriend, or simply for being a "bitchy" customer. Is it an outdated male dominance fantasy, or is there an implication that the world would be a better place if all assertive women received this sort of treatment?

Regis - You are the most delightful scumbag that ever existed. A troll with a heart of gold...well maybe not gold cuz producers say you don't buy anything. Point is you mastered the incredible art of typed internet sarcasm. This is no easy feat. Because of this, you have been able to say things on here to models even that if any newcomer were to ever say, they'd be destroyed. This is because you've been here a LONG time and built up a solid rep. Even new people quickly realize, you're not part of the problem.

Writing is my life - Your comment sort of goes both ways. Women want to be respected and seen as people. Yet at the same time, they want to be able to wear whatever they want in public, act as promiscuous as they want, and not be harassed. While people of moderate intelligence, possessing tact can understand and respect this; most of our society does not fit into those categories and see a conundrum.

You'll find each producer here that does well does so because of their niche within the WAM community. Rich does slingshots and pies, Leon does clothed with tights, Ed R primarly does wetlook, etc. For some of these models, it is a "type", and they are being an "actor" in their videos. They do this for a variety of reasons, it can give them an avenue to be raunchy and sexy. It IS a fetish forum. This is precisely why some people need heightened levels of personal security to keep people that cannot separate fantasy from reality from finding them. They HAVE to be Jessie, Ariel, Pattycake, etc because if they advertised as Jane Doe, people would be kicking their doors down.

I'm reminded of the news story where 4 teens broke into former porn star Cytherea's house and raped her with a gun pointed at her husband's head, and her child in the other room. #allmonstersarehuman

Also, I'm in the same boat as you regarding the forums. I've been around roughly the same amount of time, and only joined last year. Then deleted a profile over general baggery going on, and only just came back. And I don't have any content up. You shouldn't feel like you've been overly cautious or anything of the sort. Everyone should come and stay at their own comfort level. It's nice to meet another local though!

Soundguy - I'd venture to say it's JUST you and Bob at this point. If Booth is even around anymore, he's kinda like a ninja and never really makes his presence known anymore.

Regarding changes to the site too, remember that M pretty much does this ENTIRE thing on his own. It started as a list of links, a "webring" remember those? He's made MASSIVE changes since, but doesn't really have a "team" of people on hand to take care of stuff. He answers the e-mails, he responds when someone's store is broken, and tries to maintain the peace. Ultimately, this is his baby, and he can do what he wants with it. At the end of the day, I like where he's gone with it; it brought us all together. Now we just have to figure out how to keep troglodytes from destroying it.

That is a fair call. Those were the best suggestions I could come up, but I did only read half the thread.

I do agree with the comments that as UMD has moved over to the more sexual side of wam, I think in some trolls minds, it has given them carte blanche to act like a dick.

Again, WAM is a fetish. And this is a fetish site. There will be references, postings and language that may test the limits of someone's sensibilities. I hope that the overall "feel" of the UMD is considered a separate matter than the problem of aggressive persons in chat rooms.

First of all, I think this is a fascinating and important thread, and I appreciate that so many different voices have come forward to join the conversation.

One idea that has started to crystallize in my mind lately -- partly because of this post, and partly because I have been interacting with more UMD folks lately -- is this: We all come here for our own reasons. What you come here to seek might be very, very different than what I or someone else comes here for.

I suspect myself to be part of a "silent majority" who come here most of the time just because I want to amuse myself privately. Maybe I want to look at some hot photos, read a story, see if there is a new download I want to buy, and >99% of the time, I'm good with that.

There are a lot of other reasons to come here too. In no particular order, I see folks who come because they want to...:
* promote and sell their own content
* try to break in to the producer game
* chat with like minded folks about non-WAM stuff
* seek advice from the forum about WAM stuff
* track down some old clip they used to have
* crowdsource the curation of their spank banks
* hook up with others for real life messy sessions
* hook up with others for virtual role playing sessions
* not feel so weird about themselves

...and probably lots of other things, all with varying degrees of success.

And this gets me to thinking... what if there were some way for us as users to signal to all the other users what we are, and are not, interested in doing here? If there were a button we could all click to let others know, for example, "No, I am not interested in _______," or "Yes, I do want to ______ with other users," and so forth, then perhaps we could avoid at least some of the deluge of unwanted attention. It would also give less ambiguous evidence whenever some jerk chooses to disregard another member's boundaries.

(Some people accomplish the same thing with very detailed and thoughtful Profiles, but I just wonder if there isn't a simpler way to accomplish that result.)

Unfortunately, rules and processes won't ever solve all our problems. I trust there will always be jerks who just won't respect others' wishes, but as some others have pointed out already, we would do the community a great service by being able to discover who those jerks are early on.

Insofar as moving over to the sexual side of WAM, I would think it is a long overdue case of supply and demand.

Well i must admit i dont comment much these days but do quite a bit of lurking and in all honesty dont know if i have been lucky over the years or frighten men off with my pictures but to be honest i have never really been hassled or bullied etc in any way or form whatsoever.

If someone did try it however they would get a good old "ESSEX GIRL" mouthfull back plus the proverbial finger

Kisses

Chantelle xxxxx

@hoffa 73 - that's exactly what our profiles are for. However...

@MadLoverJoker - Exactly what you said, no one can be bothered to read them. Or, they just don't care what they say regardless...

Its a tl;dr mindset our culture lives in now.

Honestly, what we really need is a spam filter for messages.

Are you guys following The Pervening in the news? Cuz I really wanted to use "Inappropriate with the Fairies" today but I was like, hmm, maybe too inside?

No, I disagree. I have a long enough memory to say with confidence that the figurative dicks were here before the literal dicks.