I noticed this myself and already sent the user a message. The user already has a history (not necessarily here), I've spoken with Bosunbob about him, and he's on the verge of being gagged or banned.

I have not received any flags from you though. We are trying, but everybody, please help by flagging messages like these so that a history can be recorded, and so I can be sure to take action.

After reading this, here is my biggest concern. You are ONE MAN M. I know this is your baby, and maybe 10 years ago you could handle all this on your own. But as it is now, I occasionally hear or read about "Messmaster hasn't gotten back to me", "I submitted a ticket" or whatever. Can YOU by yourself honestly keep up with all this!? UMD has gotten huge, bigger than you ever thought it would. That's what I heard from your mouth when I met you a couple back at the beer garden. Your ear to ear smile beaming like a proud parent, interacting with your people and even buying us drinks.

The sad reality is that as something becomes bigger it becomes more complex. As it becomes more complex it requires more time. There are only 24 hours in a day and none of us are getting any younger. I love what you've done here and I want to see it continue to thrive. I don't know what your day looks like, but I'd hate to find out you were burning yourself out here.

Peace, love, and pie,
Jason

Thank goodness!


...and also have it spelled out that such "reports" are taken VERY seriously. I'll bet that "flag" label led to much of the apparent "non-reporting".

If I'm reading this right, you want users to flag (or "report") bad behavior so that you can be alerted to it. But couldn't "blocks" work the same way, setting off admin alerts when a user gets too many (or even one)? Different philosophy, I know.

Thanks, MM!!!

With so many corners of the internet serving like watering holes for dismissive misogynistic jagoffs, I just want to say how pleased I am that this community is taking this topic seriously. It's well worth it!

So who IS the bigger scumbag, HappyCamper or me?

I'm sorta hoping the winner gets free downloads or something. I like a reward once in awhile.

Same goes there. If they want to name and shame fine. But since their causes have nothing to do with this one I don't see the point in discussing it.

Thanks for the note, MM. Just a quick reply:


Your judicial process sounds great, in theory. What I wonder is whether we're in much of a better place when it comes to prevention. I don't think we are. For example: you eliminated the word "Etiquette" from the thread title, indicating to me that maybe you still don't think there's a place for rules in the conversation. But I think that's a mistake; there should be some kind of rules. Not for the sake of punishing the bad, but as advice to dudes on how to be good.

Mind you, you don't have to think of providing that kind of guidance as your job, exactly. Maybe it's the job of the mods, or maybe it's the community's job to come to a consensus in threads like these. But I think the conversation should have a central place in the life of the forum, and I'm happy so long as that's been started.

MM Thank you for that response!!! It is a lot to read but has a lot of good ideas in there. I really LOVE this idea, but think there could be an issue " I think the solution would be have both things: Let you block the user, and when you do, I'll still get the flag so I can research it later. I'll also make UMD automatically gag someone if they get too many flags, similar to what the forums do. Anybody think this wouldn't be a good solution? "

If the flags that get someone gagged are from separate users and not individual users, that would be awesome! While we are all adults here, I would hate to see someone get gagged over any drama with producers and models. However I am ALL IN FAVOR of the block system where you can decide not to see comments from someone you may find offensive or off putting that do not violate the rules so to say.

I will say that your style of dealing with people and talking to them like humans is incredible!! I remember a situation where you had to talk with me about the sensitivity of a posting I made based on some complaints you received. It was very professional and I appreciated the way you handled it. I know that there are some cases where a hammer approach works and some where it doesn't.

Messmaster, thank you for your considered response and for all the housekeeping and troll slaying you do behind the scenes without fanfare. We can and should always try to improve and be better as a community, but you are doing an incredible job and I for one am so grateful for you.

What she said.

thanks for the thorough response MM

Messmaster, why not set up a "honey trap" female profile (or several) to see who sends inappropriate messages to that user, as well as the nature and quantity of inappropriate messages? Assuming, of course, that you haven't already done so.

This is a pretty smart idea.

Honeytrap: "Regis, you have sent 165 messages to this inbox in less than 24 hours. Your UMD account is suspended."

Regis: "ok honey but why wont u show ur b00bs???"

This is where you're fighting general societal expectations though. Women mostly live in a social environment where they tend not to be believed when it's their word against a man's, even if there is evidence, so in a huge number of cases rather than report harassment they'll just try and remove themselves from the situation. Some won't even want to block in case that causes the offended guy to try and retaliate with violence, but many will simply want to block the offender from their experience on the site. Reporting stuff requires emotional labour and the likelihood of ongoing discussion, blocking and making the offender go away is just much easier. Your idea of a block that also silently flags the issue for your attention later is a good one though.

So we all gotta step up our game then and report crap that's not right. Let's help take some of the pressure off of them. Also, with regards to Nein's last post, I think etiquette is still important; probably now more than ever. Do they even teach manners in school anymore? I mean here in America it's all about these damn standardized tests nowadays so I don't think we do. Parents sure a hell don't seem to either. Maybe that's the problem. We no longer even live in a "please" and "thank you" society.

Don't blame the parents. It is not their fault LOL. Didn't you know that school, society and religious preference are responsible for raising children. Parents have too much to do. They can't be bothered with things like manners, the ethics of hard work or making sure their idiot kid isin't turning into a terrorist.

Rules on conversation????

Here's the problem with keep adding rules:

1. The assumption we are all dickheads that need can't hold a conversation with someone without harassing them.

2. Rules begat rules. If you make a rule, then at some point someone will get pissed about something a little smaller in scope and demand rules... and the precedent has been set. Then everyone argues about the rules and tries to ignore the spirit for the exact definition.

You're not the boss of me.

(1) "The assumption that we can't hold a conversation without being a dickhead" is the exact opposite of what I explicitly stated in the reply to MM above. Every community has its norms on how to get along. It's for convenience in helping people who want to be decent to know how to be decent. Also, etiquette is literally the point of the thread (or it was, until the title change).

I think (2) is a legitimate worry. That's reason to keep any potential guidance minimal and non-histrionic, and to let the advice evolve within the community's conversation. It really doesn't have to be legalistic. Just emphasize the core point of being here: to have fun, but also to value consent, take no for an answer, to set up some common ground before RP, that sort of thing. The point is to offer guidance on how to get carrots, and let MM decide who gets the stick.

Nooooo, I want Mrs. Bee to give me the stick!

This. Just watch right now as legions of butthurt, entitled sad sacks whinge about how #metoo is tantamount to fascism because now somebody is daring to criticise them exercising 'their right' to treat women how the damn they please! This whole problem we're discussing will not go away until societal attitudes in general are shaken up.

I agree. I just hope that the assholes don't switch to something like tor.

I guess that's possible.

If you ask me, though, the smarter harassers will realize that any new female profile has the potential to be a honeytrap... so while they won't stop harassing existing users (sorry, ladies), they might think twice about doing it to new users.

Meanwhile, the users who ignore any thread that contains more text than free photos, who typically assume that anyone whose avatar photo contains a woman *is* a woman, will inundate the honeytrap account with messages and will be culled in a satisfyingly Darwinian fashion.

1. If you are about to say something to someone; imagine you're in prison and a big bloke says it to you...

2. If you are creeped out/scared; Don't say it to the original person.

Actually blocking TOR is easier. There are only about a thousand exit nodes in the world. The full IPV4 space is 4 billion addresses. Less that 5% of internet users have static IP addresses, so blocking of an address a user was on for 20 minutes last Tuesday has no value. Most people have a new address every few days, sometimes every few hours depending on the ISP's refresh policies.