Hi all, maybe this is the wrong thread for this and if it is, I will happily move it. I had a bit of an existential crisis of sorts while watching some videos I purchased recently....

Now this may sound creepy, but hear me out. I'm an IT guy, and I like to research producers; how they operate. I find most studios are actually in totally unassuming private residences. Recently I tried to get my own studio started but all I got were a couple rough shoots with one model that I never edited and they never went to market (btw if any producers are interested in critiquing those shoots please let me knowL.

Anyways back to my issue. On a personal level I've been single for nearly 4 years now. I'm 21 yrs old and I feel like I'm pretty grand shape physically, but I'm lonely.
It's gotten to the point where I can't even enjoy the videos I've bought anymore because I realize that a (presumably) happy couple made em. I'm thinking about how I'm sitting alone in my dark room only illuminated by computer monitors (IT guy remember) and I imagine them taking their cut of the sale and maybe going to a nice dinner somewhere and holding hands.... And I think to myself that all I bought was a temporary fantasy and that I'm still going to be alone and 20 bucks poorer for that fantasy.

I've gotten genuinely depressed about this and I suppose the reason I'm even writing this thread is because I wondered if anyone else out there ever feels the same way, or if I'm just crazy.. Whatever the case may be, I don't know what the solution may be.

Thanks for listening. I really truly appreciate it.

I think the majority of scenes for sale are made by professional producers who may be friends with their models but generally aren't in romantic relationships with them. In my case most of my models are personal friends and while I do take them out to dinner after each shooting session (as part of their pay) there's no hand-holding or romance, afterwards they go home to their own lives, and I head back here to download the footage.

Personally I've always seen the fetish as independent to any relationships, and indeed I'd have no problem going out with a non-wammer as long as they accepted it's a major part of my life - but as long as they don't object to me watching videos and shooting scenes, they don't have to take part, there's lots of other things that couples can do together.

But yeah, anything you see on screen is a fantasy, just like a movie in the cinema. Fun to watch but afterwards you're back in the real world. I'm not anyone to give advice on dating, been single for years now, but the standard advice here tends to be "make it about her and not the fetish" - the tricky bit of course being finding her in the first place. Good luck, anyway.

Oh I know there's lots of professional ones! I just meant my favorites end up being couples.

And I'd be thrilled to meet a girl who was into it with me, but I know I could be perfectly loving in every way without the fetish.

What DM1 said.
Not to burst the bubble, but the girls you see in my videos aren't girlfriends. (Or exes, for that matter.) They're all paid models... Nearly all with BFs, some married, some with kids. (And it's impossible to guess the ones who are moms. Some women keep in amazing shape.)

If you spend $20 with me... Thank you! And that money is going to me, to pay for more shoots and more models. And sadly not for any romantic dinners with models. (The model probably got paid many months previous, and possibly took HER BF/hubby out for a romantic meal. Or not.)

Any "watching" is invariably gonna feel hollow compared to the real thing. The trick is to balance it out. Even if you don't find a partner into WAM, they can still give you love & emotional connection... Something a video never can. On the flipside, watching a video can take care of your fetish desires without the mess (figurative and literal) of bringing a partner into WAM.

Full disclosure: I feel hollow after a shoot sometimes too. Even if it's a good one. I've had "connections" with some models over the years, but even if you get along with someone really well during the shoot, invariably she goes home to her significant other while you're left cleaning up a lot of mess. (Literally. Not figuratively.) And watching the footage, which can be very good... But is not real life and can't ever replace it.

Sstuff! I've probably bought a couple hundred dollars or more of your material. My budget is really tigh right now, but youve got some new ones I really want.

The shoot I did was a with a model who was plenty available (I trust you so I'll send you a copy to critique). She was too old for me though. Had a kid older than me. None of the shoots we did have ever gone to market because it turns out I really suck at editing mostly.

And the mess is a lot to cleanup but I've learned some tricks in the past.

Anyways if you ever need IT help I'm your man.

Haha thanks! Maybe possibly... Soundguy is actually very good at the IT. (He runs Vidown, in case you didn't know.) I'm also fortunate enough to have a guy who does some editing in his spare time... I tend to handle all the new clips (pics and editing and uploads) and he does the compilations like "Just The Hits" and so on.

I've never shot with anyone older than me before? These days it's the opposite... I feel so ancient working with 21-year-olds. Fortunately I'm immature enough to get along well with them....

Ha my model was in her late 40's

I don't think what you're talking about is too uncommon. I find getting off to videos to be somewhat dissatisfying when I'm not in a relationship (or not in a good relationship) because it is a reminder that I don't have someone else to join in, so to speak. I know some of my friends feel this way about porn as well.

And for me it doesn't matter if it's a video of a real life couple or clearly paid actors who may not even enjoy what their doing, it's just a reminder that you're alone and that sucks

Yes that's it exactly! You get it.. It just makes me feel more alone. I work out; go hiking, I live an "exciting" lifestyle and I'm stable with a car, house, and good job, but I'm all alone.

Hell is other people. You're ahead of the game, bro.

Some women are worth going through hell for

Frank: These two lines contain THE truth. It is just about that.
We all have different paths. No one can tell you how to get the right partner.


There is no "you have to change this and that to be more attractive for women" or "you have to be the active part when it is about dating". There are so many "truths", but none of them is THE truth for all (except what Jason said ).

Look: Such lines may work for their authors but not for you. Ive done a lot for finding partners and the more I searched the less successful I was.
Finding a relationship isn't something you earn. You can work on your personality, your body etc. But it isn't a task where you have to match the conditions and you get your prize. You can't force relationships.

They just happen or not. There is just one thing that guarantees you less pain:
Adapt your psyche to it.

Gness7 wrote: "In fact, I stopped being jealous of those in relationships overall when I realized that everyone is human. And relatively few humans are actually dateable--and that includes the pretty ones. Sometimes, it's especially the pretty ones."
When you reach this attitude you are healed. It is NOT about creating points that make a relationship undesirable. It is about REALIZING points why there is no reason to be jealous and for suffering.

This is also something you have to experience by your own. But anytime you will notice that everybody is human. And the ones who doesnt seem to be are just great in acting

A few years ago I had the same mindset like yours. It helped to try everything possible to find a relationship and failing. In the end not only I can say I tried everything, what calmes me. But the great achievement was the insight that Im well fed and not needy anymore. I won't go out dating. I won't try.

I just let happen. But I had to try a lot before I got "clean".

Hang in there buddy. With some minor editing, your original post could've been written by me twenty years ago. I felt that same empty loneliness and I indulged many of the same behaviors.

I had to wait til my late twenties to find my lady, but it was worth it. I told her about my kink 4-5 months into dating, it was no big deal, and we still have fun, sexy, kinky pie fights together all these years later. I can't promise that the same will happen for you, but it might.

Most of the responses here also renewed my faith in this supportive community, too. Plenty of folks understand and offered good advice. Well done all!

I've dated normal people, normal models, fetish models, musicians... it's a list and you get the point.

I've made friends with some models I've worked with, I've dated more than one and I've been in purely professional relationships with most.

You can't class the whole of any of these as anything, but you are more likely to find fetish models with issues.

I'm married now to a former normal model.

I was working to a point...

Oh yes.

Just be normal and talk to girls. That's how you meet them and end up dating some, then sooner or later find someone you end up serious with.

Most people I meet that have trouble with girls try to be a better person than they are around them, try too hard and/or try to impress.

Just be you, don't be impressed by girls they are just people. Just be people with them and relationships of all types happen.

Hello Frank, first of all I sympathize and we have all had different experiences i am sure. From a WAM point of view my 2nd Wife was a top WAM model 'Shaun' who people still remember! But living with her was a very different experience watch this video first:
https://youtu.be/vwbKYcBdVyk

Just like Noise and many of the other WAM produces here I have dated a few regular girls, a lot of models and several WAM models and they are all great girls, but definitely not someone I would marry. Many have some very serious issues and a couple I have dated are nuttier than a 20lb fruit cake!

Ten years after my last marriage I am still single and to be honest When I stopped dating Anthea 8 months ago I have stayed alone. If I had listened to the rich man's creed I would be stinking rich today "If it Fly's, Floats or Fucks, rent it"

On a professional level I have NEVER hit on a fetish model, they all talk like little old ladies so that would be very bad for business. Models are just like regular girls if you ask ten out one might say yes, if you ask 20 out 1 might end up a girlfriend, but remember the video above, its VERY VERY true. No matter how you feel inside it can always be worse! Chill, relax, if its meant to be it will come your way....

Phil

Thanks to being treated very horribly by girls and women though my school years I swore off dating and relationships forever.

I'm so sorry to hear of the negative experiences some of you have had. Women are not all bad. Or crazy. Just like not all men are good. And btw, based on the messages I receive and the things men here and on my blog have said to, confided in, or spewed at me? it's a toss up as to who's more fucked up.

Models talk amongst themselves, just like any other industry group, to network and to also be/feel safe.

I realize this hot vs. crazy matrix video is (sort of) intended to be funny (the problem is, he's not exactly funny) but it's offensive and misogynistic. I don't like. Boo.

Mrs. Bee

Oh I do go out! Just finished a hiking trip up Turkey mountain with my sister and her husband.

I used to be "popular" in highschool and at 21, I know that wasn't that long ago, but I don't feel as confident as I used to. The biggest thing is finding a girl who isn't instantly turned off by what you're into....

I found a couple dating sites just for wam enthusiasts, but it's only open to people in the UK and I live in Oklahoma.

I've already done that.

It's not about fantasies at this point. It's about having some companionship.

Wow. If I had a bit more time right now I would love to contribute and tell you it isn't all lost, etc. I've been through two previous marriages and now on my third, things could not be better. I know that doesn't make you feel any better because I've been there, just like you. And it feels like nothing will ever change and nothing will ever get better. Oh man, I've been places I would not wish upon anyone, not even my worst enemies.

I understand the hell you're going through now. You'll make it. As a very dear friend that I still have feelings for 20 year later once told me, "don't check out, just change rooms". I hated her for saying that but you know ... it turned out to be good advice.

Finally, I am amazed and overwhelmed at the true compassion in this group. You people are amazing.

Cheers to everyone.

Jesus F Christ your 21. Give the universe, karma or whatever a chance. I've been looking for WAM stuff on the internet since before you were born. I dated a lot of women. I was lucky enough to meet my soul mate at 42. Unlucky that she died a few years later from cancer. Boo hoo you at 21. Number 1 learn to eat pussy. If you can make her pussy so wet it farts, she will never stop calling. There is a G spot in there, find it. I still get calls from women I went out with 20 years ago and I have changed numbers.
Anyway, hopefully you have a long life ahead of you and lots of girls, then women to meet. Chill, wear a priest costume for Halloween, totally works. 15 numbers in 10 years. Not every girl you date has to be the ONE. Your fricking 21.

BTW, Phil's vids are great fun. Show them to you girlfriend when you get one.

Holy shit, that's hilarious (well, not the cancer part, obviously). Why didn't I ever think of the priest costume?!

Just a dark suit, with a black shirt on backwards. Cut an index card about 1 inch wide. Not any Halloween store crap.

So true. Don't be afraid of 'just friends'...a friend is still a good goal. My longterm girlfriend is someone I was not initially attracted to, but wanted to become friends with, and soon developed feelings for.

Yes, GD and I did once go out to dinner on the proceeds of WAM but the restaurant insisted, because of who we were, we needn't pay a penny.

Seriously. Take control. And do it! You might steer off course or crash every now and again (there are two previous marriages, kids and all the rest behind this 'lucky' - and I hasten to add middle-aged couple - plus a few years from hell that would have broken up anyone less solid).

And before you go to a shrink - this is a boiled down version of everything you need to know:

Show up
Pay attention
Speak your truth
And have nothing invested in the outcome

Finally, my favourite quote is from a movie that has more meaning than intended:

"Don't look for it - it's not there anymore!" - Marty DiBergi in Spinal Tap

All the best Trouso and Ginger

In my experience, women are much more open to odd kinks in their partners than men are. No, I've never had a male partner, but I have talked with a good number of women who have broached the topic of WAM with their partners (some were genuine female WAMmers, others just got curious about it through hearing about it from me or someone else), and the most common male partner responses fell along this line: "Don't be stupid."

In the early Internet years, I was online friends with a true female pie fan who had told a number of her partners about her fetish. One guy was really bothered by this and even told her a good while later that it caused him nightmares for years afterward. Another guy just showed up at her house often and surprise pied her at all hours, figuring this was his free pass to get laid whenever he felt horny.

I am one of the lucky ones with a wife who indulges my pie kink in a healthy, loving and accepting way, but it wasn't easy in my teens or most of my twenties, I was scarred by a woman I was in a very serious relationship back then when she had a very negative reaction to my special interest. Being young and never having told anyone about this fetish before her, I didn't approach the topic with her in the best way, so I have to take some of the blame. But even so, her reaction was harsh and unnecessarily hurtful. (Didn't help that this was slightly pre-Internet, so it seemed to me like I was the only person in the world with this fetish.)

So I understand feeling lonely and scared to bring this topic up with partners. And I'm not saying all women are going to be accepting of this, even if you bring it up in an optimal way. But look on the bright side: as a male WAMmer looking for a female partner willing to indulge your messy fantasies, your odds are a lot better than when the roles are reversed. And if you go into things thinking women are all inherently crazy, cruel or both, you're poisoning your potential relationships before they've even started.

...and then, one day, suddenly, you will find yourself with a girl friend....if you are lucky, she will indulge your fetish (if you're REALLY lucky, she will enjoy it, even want it)....but you might just as likely end up with someone who was as lonely as you....and, you will not be compatible (in that fetish/kink way)....and soon, you will be wishing you DIDN'T have a gf anymore...Take out an classified ad in a weekly paper (the "kinky' or 'other' section)....join a fetish club (or start one yourself)...be creative (but not creeepy)...as someone else noted: you are young....think about finding the "right" escort and cultivate an on-going friendship with her (if you have the cash to spare -- this will save you from making mistakes with regular girls, and make you more at ease with them)....plenty of college girls who need some extra cash for school (and who wouldn't mind getting messy and having some for m of sex)...avoid pursuing a real GF at this stage of your life....your body wants sex but your mind may not want a relationship, yet...mind and body need to catch up with each other before that can happen...chill.

Sex doesn't sound nearly as appealing as a legit relationship. I could do without just for the companionship.