I don't in any way intend to start a flame war/draw a line in the sand, as I truly love how global this community is, and some of the sweetest, coolest folks come from across the pond. (Messy Jessie's very presence makes me smile/happy whenever she posts...)

But I wanted to get anyone's thoughts on the differences between US/Northern American WAM and UK WAM.

I tend to always prefer US WAM, mostly because a) US tends to be a bit more pie-centric than UK, and even in that, the pies tend to be of a thicker quality/coverage variety, b) same goes for gunge/slime, which USUALLY tends to be thinner, more translucent, etc. than the thicker gloppier stuff i grew up with on YCDTOTV, etc.

On the other hand, the UK is a HUGE epicenter for WAM -- some of the most consistent posts come out of there, and some of the more dedicated wammers....

PLUS, and this is huge -- there is virtually NO "come WAM with us!" scene in the US. Going on 20-something years now.

Whereas the UK seems comparatively crawling with WAM models, studios, producers, sploshing suites and such. I know US is just a bigger place, but still -- I've been on here since the late 90s, and still have yet to see a "Come Mess With Us!" studio experience like you see amateur wammers/photographers participating in on the regular in the UK.

Again, I mean for this to be as open but as cordial a discussion as possible. I do want to hear from both sides and want to hear about why everyone thinks these differences occur. (At one time, it seemed VERY clear that it had a lot to do with materials, as you see a lot of custard and pudding and things cardboard cartons, vs. america where everything is in jugs or spray/cans, etc. I remember a whole discussion long ago about pie cream and crust availability in UK.) This is not a "Hey, what the hell, Brits?!" post...

JY

The whole of England and Scotland is smaller than the state of California.
So there's your #3 - it's not that the US is bigger, it's that the US is substantially bigger than the whole of continental Europe.

I guess I agree to some extent about the different WAM material.. I kind of wish we could just buy huge coolwhip pies like you guys in the USA seem to be able to get at any store!!! I don't know the details but the pies and the sheet cakes always look so big and gooey, and probably cost less than they would over here. (Did you know London is now the most expensive place to live in the world!? Ok not all of it, but still... What I'm saying is costs have gone up.)

I do love American girls too it has to be said... For all the reasons given in the Beach Boys "Californian Girls"....

But then I like American cars, sports, guns, beers, clothes, accents, flag and did I mention girls...?

What's great about the UK? CUSTARD!

Probably since the US is so lawsuit happy it would be very unlikely for folks to take on the liability of a "come splosh with me" business. That is probably why the US models that do offer sessions do so under the radar (meaning not an established business). UK invented mainstream WAM with their children's tv programs so a lot of UK wammers have been in the scene since a very early age.

slosh makes a really good point re: the legalities of US.

and per your point bout "California girls" -- they're amazing. I was just observing this moments ago coming back from running errands.

I've never been to the UK, but i know several and obviously a lot of the models around here prove that UK has its share as well. the Lacey Banghards of the world are mind-blowing -- I like smiles and eyes and mouths, and UK has some really interesting/gorgeous girls because of how "Unusual" (to an american, this one anyway) their features are.

oddly, though, i wasn't really even thinking about the models/ladies, just more about the mess and the substance/quality thereof.

Again, never been to the UK but i've been around Europe a lot, and it is true -- while you go into a bakery/pastry shop and it's pretty amazing, Europe generally isn't known for big Costco/grocery stores where you can get tons of dairy/bakery products, it's usually a slim variety.

Keep the thoughts/observations coming, ladies and gents!

JY

Americans don't know what to do with the word "gunge".
Once I see that in a description, I know it's for the UK crowd. American vastness of space just lends itself to less self-conscious terminology in the WAM area. Just an interesting point to me.

US mainstream Wam has produced more plot-oriented pies and cakes in the face, but there are vastly more shows. I can think of a number of UK shows that do this. As for my preference, I like the WAM to be part of a scripted program rather than the "game show" variety where people are wearing goggles and garbage bags and get some water with green food coloring dumped on them.

TISWAS seems to have made some good scenes here and there, if any video of it that isn't completely screwed up by bad reception and bad VCR tracking surfaces, but I have to say Noel's House Party and Get Your Own Back always disappointed me regarding WAM scenes.

UK wam blows, just like UK "English." And Steve Coogan.

Serious answer: I can't think of a single UK wam producer that really gets mud. WSM had some decent mud stuff but other than that my 20 or so favorites are all from the US (or continental Europe).

I would have to disagree. Leonmoomin does a great job with lotsofmud. Come to think of it, their work with gunge tank girls and top gunge really hit home the classic UK wam niche. Gunge tanks are very much a UK thing. Pies in the face were more established with the silent comedy era and slapstick which I suppose was more Hollywood.

Leonmoomin is far from the only producer I'm thinking of here, but I always thought that whole tidal mud flats school of wam was really boring. It's hard to make a mud video that I won't buy, but that's one way of doing it.

Plus, at the risk of generalizing, I feel like the Brits are often content to have their girls just sort of rolling around in the mud with an insipid grin, whereas obviously the only worthwhile things for women to do in mud are (1) fucking or (2) wrestling.

Pro dommes have much more to worry about when it comes to the legal aspect of sessioning yet they are tons of people who do that and make enough to do it full time since there is a much higher demand for that.

I offered in person messy sessions for a brief time when I wasn't shooting as much and there just wasn't much interest. The few people who did contact me were not interested in paying a reasonable rate for what they wanted. I did end up doing one session which went fairly well but honestly most people who contacted me were time wasters who couldn't comprehend how much work goes into making enough slime to fill an entire tub or how expensive and time consuming it is to make 30+ pies.

There are models who do offer sessions but I feel the main reason you don't see more doing it is just a lack of demand.

Would have to respectfully disagree about Leon's mud scenes, over nearly a decade. They're fun, and depending on the tide, truly amazing scenes. Also offering tons of fantastic photos, which many sites don't do anymore.

To each their own I guess, but I think places in the US are simply lucky for having awesome clay/mud pits in comparison. The mud/clay in downloaddreams is somewhat tough to beat.

Question: Where did the UK WAM scene get the word "Gunge" from anyway? I mean, I know it was popular on television besides just the fetish scene, but why call it "Gunge"

We Yanks call it by a more accurate and descriptive name: "Slime."

The gunge terminology was definitely a BBC thing which first started doing the circuit in Noel Edmonds Breakfast show in the late 80s. Tiswas to my knowledge never referred to 'gunge' nor crackerjack.

As for the comment regarding UK mud, I would certainly agree the Americans do it better. Just another point, am I right in saying more folks from the more southerly areas of the US are active in WAM than perhaps the colder northern areas???

Being a pie fan myself, I will be honest and say UK producers do the worst pie stuff. Everything about UK pies are awful. Big clunky pie crusts filled with custard that don't stick to the face, bad coverage, or those shaving foam pies on a paper plate which are the absolute worst. Even the pie tins are wrong. I've never bought any UK wam vids, and probably never will. When was the last time you saw an all out UK pie extravaganza with truly good pies? Never. UK wam is good if you like gunge, or baked beans, eggs, or other food substances over the head.

Only a tiny thing to add to the discussion - but I've started to notice Tesco and Ocado (Waitrose) in the UK are stocking Keebler Graham cracker crusts - is this the first step in us finally getting some decent pies?

Huh. Well, I missed that. I would've been up for it probably, except for the geography issue. As noted above, the US is just too damn big. We need to kick out Texas and Florida for starters -- really, just encourage the whole South to secede again (even if it means relocating Messygirl and Rich). Anyway, if you're ever in NYC, shoot me a PM.

Pie tins are wrong.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O71myWXkzig

'fraid not. The only way to make a decent pie filling in the UK is to make it from scratch. There is nothing off the shelf to match Cool Whip.

It's why I didn't make any pie videos for release until I came to America. I did get hold of Cool Whip in the UK, but you really have to know the right person to do so.

As long as we're piling on, don't forget you still owe us a White House.

The lack of girls doing sessions is due to the fact that few can afford to pay to do the things they actually want to see. Unless you are in some WAM " hotspot" of activity (still looking for that)

Leila is totally right, the amount of time needed to prepare a ton of pies and slime and all of that is crazy. I have had great success in my travels with having awesome messy sessions in all sorts of crazy places with some of the most fun and cool people. But that is the other point for US wam. Being able to travel the vast USA in search of messy adventures...!

Maybe next year I'll hop across the pond and film a Stonehenge druid mess.

Actually there was a reference in Tiswas. If you check out the Tiswas Plastermind sketch on youtube you can see Sally's specialist subject was Tiswas Gunge. I think it was the uk kids tv show How Dare You in the early-to-mid 80s that really promoted the use of the word Gunge.

I would LOVE to have the opportunity to use some proper American pies!
I've tried so many combinations of toppings and bases, but nothing we have here can touch the US ones.

For one movie I whipped up double cream together with some custard, which made for some really thick cream pies, but they were nowhere near the consistency of cool whip. And then there's the base issue - I long for a British pie base that doesn't break or crumble when you take it out of the foil tin!

Dids did some great stuff with Messy Mercedes and others mud wise.

That would be cool if you did

At first the BBC didn't use the term "gunge", presumably because it had been used on ITV on Tiswas - the BBC shows called it "gunk" for a good few years. Crackerjack was also a BBC show (though after it was cancelled the final presenter ran a clone with the same format on ITV for a few years, think it was called "Crush A Grape").

I hate to heap on, but I have to agree that British pies in general can't compete with American ones. Nevertheless, I still occasionally buy pie vids from UK producers when I am particularly into the particular models or something about the scenario/setup really appeals to me. This includes some stuff from Messy Jessie, Messy Angel/Bound2BMessy (nobody quite loves pies like Honey B!), Pippa Lily, and I'm sure a few more whose names escape me at the moment. Most importantly, I have to point out that Leon and Lisa Moomin came up with some excellent pies for use in many of their JustPied videos. (Sadly they abandoned new material for this site a few years back. They've said they're going to be making new JustPied videos this year, however. I'm really hoping they follow through!)

Below I've posted a bunch of images from the Moomins to illustrate my point. If you're interested in identifying particular videos to buy -- and I hightly recommend them all -- the models shown here are the always stunning Lisa Moomin (in a black one-shoulder dress, also seen taking pies while chained up in a YCDOTI skit), Jemma (wedding dress), Michelle (pink bikini), Lucy (red blouse), Ali (black dress you can barely see under her long brown hair), and finally my very favorite, Katy and Rebecca -- they did a video together, with Katy in green and Rebecca in a sparkly gold and black top.

I saw a video with Ali once, she seems so nice. I could totally see us being friends in real life.

I generally prefer the UK material since they seem to have a better variety of substances and I love the few videos out there that goes all out with savory, sweets, slime, gunge, and etc all in one video, seems like new ones that have the same traits are getting to be super rare. At the same time a single video doesn't have to go all out like that to tickle my senses but some of their producers spread out such variety through several videos which is also good.