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"Video formatting (from "Messygirl Customs experience" thread)"
Love you, too
Looking at the "Messygirl Customs experience" thread:
https://umd.net/forums/i/messygirl-customs-experience?start=60#postid_1063148
That was a bit of a tangent from the original topic, but I think it's worth discussing by itself. I'd say there are 2 issues:
a) Should portrait (vertical) video be converted into landscape (horizontal) video, i.e. by adding black bars on the left and right?
To me, that's a definite "no". I think there are situations where portrait video makes sense, e.g. if you've got someone sitting in a gunge tank so there's nothing interesting happening on either side but you want to get the full height in. However, it should then be kept as portrait. That way, you can view it on a suitable screen (e.g. a phone, tablet, or rotated monitor) and use the full screen area. If you want to view it on a landscape screen, you'll wind up with the black bars on the side anyway, so there's no reason for the video to contain them.
b) Should files be split up for different angles?
I think that SlapstickStuff does this well. I.e. the "raw" store has a choice of 3 angles (close/medium/wide) or a bundle which contains all 3, but the bundle still has separate files. There's also an edited version which alternates between the 3 formats, but they're all in landscape.
By contrast, there was another video I saw which was 17m 25s long, but it was really 8m 40s from 2 different angles. That video is no longer on sale (the store is empty), so I can't check the description, and I don't want to accuse anyone of being misleading. However, I'd prefer to have that as 2 separate files, even if I'm still paying the same price for the "bundle".
https://umd.net/forums/i/messygirl-customs-experience?start=60#postid_1063148
Itsthatguyyouare said: he [..] frankly does the bare minimum with editing. Like shit bro you could release two versions of your videos instead of cramming a verticle video into a horizontal canvas. I inspire to be a better editor because you can't even do simple things like that.
Muhmy2 said: Uh, that's a weird complaint. I think the vertical video is really just an extra. That has nothing to do with being a good editor or bad. You're complaining about not having to pay twice for essentially the same footage but from a different angle?
That was a bit of a tangent from the original topic, but I think it's worth discussing by itself. I'd say there are 2 issues:
a) Should portrait (vertical) video be converted into landscape (horizontal) video, i.e. by adding black bars on the left and right?
To me, that's a definite "no". I think there are situations where portrait video makes sense, e.g. if you've got someone sitting in a gunge tank so there's nothing interesting happening on either side but you want to get the full height in. However, it should then be kept as portrait. That way, you can view it on a suitable screen (e.g. a phone, tablet, or rotated monitor) and use the full screen area. If you want to view it on a landscape screen, you'll wind up with the black bars on the side anyway, so there's no reason for the video to contain them.
b) Should files be split up for different angles?
I think that SlapstickStuff does this well. I.e. the "raw" store has a choice of 3 angles (close/medium/wide) or a bundle which contains all 3, but the bundle still has separate files. There's also an edited version which alternates between the 3 formats, but they're all in landscape.
By contrast, there was another video I saw which was 17m 25s long, but it was really 8m 40s from 2 different angles. That video is no longer on sale (the store is empty), so I can't check the description, and I don't want to accuse anyone of being misleading. However, I'd prefer to have that as 2 separate files, even if I'm still paying the same price for the "bundle".
I believe there is a time and a place for it.
For instance, for content or my paid shoots, unless I am doing photos or reels, it's horizontal/landscape.
There are ways to do both from the same shot and that is typically where I would suggest learning to shoot open gate off a Panasonic Lumix or Fuji
For instance, for content or my paid shoots, unless I am doing photos or reels, it's horizontal/landscape.
There are ways to do both from the same shot and that is typically where I would suggest learning to shoot open gate off a Panasonic Lumix or Fuji
Making smut is easy. Making art takes more!
Even if I were filming something where I wanted to show the full height, I'd still shoot horitzontal, just back the camera up. If it's s amsll room I guess that's an issue but I like filling the screen. Does anyone actually watch fetish/porn content on their phone? I guess some do, I just saw a cop cam video on Youtube where some dude got busted for jacking off on his front lawn while watching porn on his phone, so THAT guy does it.
I'd only shoot vertical if I was shooting for a specific destination where it's expected...Instagram or TikTok. But for Youtube no way.
But I don't like vertical fetish stuff. Saw one where the stuff was getting good but the subject paid down so you only saw half of them, that's crazy.
I'd only shoot vertical if I was shooting for a specific destination where it's expected...Instagram or TikTok. But for Youtube no way.
But I don't like vertical fetish stuff. Saw one where the stuff was getting good but the subject paid down so you only saw half of them, that's crazy.
Im not a fan of vertical video at all for viewing on any devices. If I'm viewing on a phone, I'll turn it sideways. I don't have that option with a tv permanently mounted to the wall or on a monitor that doesn't pivot. If you can only shoot with a phone, turn it sideways and fire away. I you can't fit everything in frame, back up. If you don't have space to move back, buy a phone that has a .5x wide angle lens. If I'm shooting in a confined space I'll use the widest setting on my 16-80 (which on an APS-C the same as 24-120 on 35mm full frame) or in SUPER extreme cases my 10-24 (15-36) but make sure to keep the content as close to center frame as possible and a straight-on viewpoint to minimize distortion (unless using it creatively.) Vertical video is the devil! If you can't afford a real camera/lens combo, and you can't afford a phone with a wide-angle lens (iPhone pro/pro max actually works decently if you have near perfect light) then hopefully your content is good enough that you can save up and buy better gear.
I'm usually not one for snark... but before calling people out about their production methodology, it's best to ASPIRE to learn the difference between aspiring and inspiring.
I'm usually not one for snark... but before calling people out about their production methodology, it's best to ASPIRE to learn the difference between aspiring and inspiring.
messyhot said: Im not a fan of vertical video at all for viewing on any devices. If I'm viewing on a phone, I'll turn it sideways. I don't have that option with a tv permanently mounted to the wall or on a monitor that doesn't pivot. If you can only shoot with a phone, turn it sideways and fire away. I you can't fit everything in frame, back up. If you don't have space to move back, buy a phone that has a .5x wide angle lens. If I'm shooting in a confined space I'll use the widest setting on my 16-80 (which on an APS-C the same as 24-120 on 35mm full frame) or in SUPER extreme cases my 10-24 (15-36) but make sure to keep the content as close to center frame as possible and a straight-on viewpoint to minimize distortion (unless using it creatively.) Vertical video is the devil! If you can't afford a real camera/lens combo, and you can't afford a phone with a wide-angle lens (iPhone pro/pro max actually works decently if you have near perfect light) then hopefully your content is good enough that you can save up and buy better gear.
I'm usually not one for snark... but before calling people out about their production methodology, it's best to ASPIRE to learn the difference between aspiring and inspiring.
I'm usually not one for snark... but before calling people out about their production methodology, it's best to ASPIRE to learn the difference between aspiring and inspiring.
This!
Like, Vertical video has its uses (especially in the influencer age of social media) but understanding how to frame your shot to be able to deliver both I think takes larger precedence over changing to vertical shooting and if you don't know what any of this means, learn! Take a workshop. Go to Youtube university for an hour a day at the very least before trying to shoot something that you intend on selling.
For kink and my cine stuff? Horizontal all day. There is no substitute. Even my personal IG reels are landscape and I refuse to change that methodology. It's just not as impactful to me to give 1/3 of the image of what the customer SHOULD get. Weddings, corporate events, even Birthday parties, all my clients want widescreen. Why should fetish be any different? Hell, I may employ Anamorphics into my next kink shoot. The DZO anamorphic lens flare is absolutely dreamy with the right lighting
Unlike Messyhot, I shoot primes although I have used my 24-70 for video as well and have gotten amazing results. For video, I don't use my 18-35 except if I am feeling creative due to the lens distortion I get toward the edges. Also at 18mm, I notice some slight vignetting but that's the fault of the lens itself. For video, 25mm, 50mm and 85mm are my go to lenses (although I been loving my newest 105mm 2.1 lately). I shoot tight and wide, based on what my vision is. Sometimes to tell a story, you need dimension and a different angle with a different focal length can help tell that story. That's why you will see people like Messyhot and myself spend almost 10x the cost of the camera body on lenses.
In any case, it's important to know when vertical formats are acceptable and for a majority of cases, they won't be unless you get that one off client who is specifically requesting something for their social media reels. It's rare though and nonexistent in this industry imo
Making smut is easy. Making art takes more!
Nostalgic Erotica Prod said:
Unlike Messyhot, I shoot primes although I have used my 24-70 for video as well and have gotten amazing results. For video, I don't use my 18-35 except if I am feeling creative due to the lens distortion I get toward the edges.
Unlike Messyhot, I shoot primes although I have used my 24-70 for video as well and have gotten amazing results. For video, I don't use my 18-35 except if I am feeling creative due to the lens distortion I get toward the edges.
For stills work I shoot exclusively primes with the exception of the 10-24 occasionally if I want something super wide and I don't want to go with the distortion of my 8mm fisheye. My video work is 80% of the time just a documentary of my photo shoots. The main reason for my use of the 16-80 in video cases is it has really good OIS which when combined with the IBIS of the x-t4 allows some great hand held use without having to worry about the bulk or setup work of balancing a gimbal.
messyhot said:
For stills work I shoot exclusively primes with the exception of the 10-24 occasionally if I want something super wide and I don't want to go with the distortion of my 8mm fisheye. My video work is 80% of the time just a documentary of my photo shoots. The main reason for my use of the 16-80 in video cases is it has really good OIS which when combined with the IBIS of the x-t4 allows some great hand held use without having to worry about the bulk or setup work of balancing a gimbal.
Nostalgic Erotica Prod said:
Unlike Messyhot, I shoot primes although I have used my 24-70 for video as well and have gotten amazing results. For video, I don't use my 18-35 except if I am feeling creative due to the lens distortion I get toward the edges.
Unlike Messyhot, I shoot primes although I have used my 24-70 for video as well and have gotten amazing results. For video, I don't use my 18-35 except if I am feeling creative due to the lens distortion I get toward the edges.
For stills work I shoot exclusively primes with the exception of the 10-24 occasionally if I want something super wide and I don't want to go with the distortion of my 8mm fisheye. My video work is 80% of the time just a documentary of my photo shoots. The main reason for my use of the 16-80 in video cases is it has really good OIS which when combined with the IBIS of the x-t4 allows some great hand held use without having to worry about the bulk or setup work of balancing a gimbal.
What would be fun is a BTS set up. My buddy has one with is essentially a Tilta arm attached to his cage with an iPhone clutch attached shooting wide at his screen when he is doing handheld. Makes for some really cool perspective shots!
Making smut is easy. Making art takes more!
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
As a buyer, vertical video is one of the things that instantly puts me off buying a scene. It's not a total no-sale, but before even looking at the thumbnails it's in the "probably not" category and in the vast majority of cases will then turn out to be badly lit and not very well filmed. I've seen exceptions, and I know you can get good results with a phone camera - I tried using mine, in landscape mode, as a second camera during a shoot a while back and the results were very good, though the colour balance and intensity was massively different from my main camcorder and as it was from almost the same angle I saw no need to release that footage. But it definitely proved you can shoot decent WAM with a phone, I already shoot railway videos that way and no-one's ever complained. But even using the phone, I shoot landscape, it's not hard to turn the phone sideways to film, in what to me is the natural way to do it.
I can see there could be an argument for vertical footage of something like a gunge tank as an extra, for people to watch on their phones. But in all but a very few cases, shooting vertical means lots of panning back and forth which is irritating to watch - just turn it landscape so it can see the whole scene and both models, and leave it static. After all someone viewing on a phone can easily turn it landscape - I mean I can't imagine people watch movies on their phones in portrait mode, that would be insane.
Generally if I'm buying a scene, I don't want fancy editing, and I particularly do not want to find the scene cuts from one camera to another just as it's hitting my personal money shots - so a single camera that shows all of the action and does not jig about or zoom in is my ideal. The thing I want to see above all else in a WAM video is the model's clothes from the waist down going from clean to messy (or the water rising up that area if they are walking down into a bath or pool).
But the overwhelming decisions makers for me are, first, the outfit(s). That's the absolute most important point, I'll certainly consider almost any scene if if features a girl in a decently fitting boilersuit and wellies, or decently fitting dungarees, or high waist combat trousers and army boots as long as no untucked top to block the view. And beyond the basics of "was this competently filmed", I'm unlikely to change my decision based on the technical quality of the kit or cinematic skill of the producer.
I guess I've kind of always assumed most of the market is the same, as long as the footage is competent and you can see the important bits (which obvs change from buyer to buyer), I'm not fussed whether it was shot on a phone or $100k of cinema-quality cameras - it's the outfit(s), and attractiveness of model(s), and whether it looks like they were enjoying doing it, are the primary things that persuade me to buy a scene.
In response to @Muhmy2's comment, I gather the vast majority of traffic here is now phones and tablets rather than PCs, so I suspect the majority do indeed watch on their phones. But a phone can be turned landscape so there's no need to shoot vertical for that. This is also why I'm sticking to 1080p resolution - Everything I've shot since 2019 has been mastered in 4K, but given only a machine can tell the difference between Full-HD and 4K on a phone screen, I see no point wasting people's storage space with unnecessarily large files. In the future we can remaster if we need to, but for now, Full-HD will give sparkling results on smartphones and still looks great on a PC screen.
I can see there could be an argument for vertical footage of something like a gunge tank as an extra, for people to watch on their phones. But in all but a very few cases, shooting vertical means lots of panning back and forth which is irritating to watch - just turn it landscape so it can see the whole scene and both models, and leave it static. After all someone viewing on a phone can easily turn it landscape - I mean I can't imagine people watch movies on their phones in portrait mode, that would be insane.
Generally if I'm buying a scene, I don't want fancy editing, and I particularly do not want to find the scene cuts from one camera to another just as it's hitting my personal money shots - so a single camera that shows all of the action and does not jig about or zoom in is my ideal. The thing I want to see above all else in a WAM video is the model's clothes from the waist down going from clean to messy (or the water rising up that area if they are walking down into a bath or pool).
But the overwhelming decisions makers for me are, first, the outfit(s). That's the absolute most important point, I'll certainly consider almost any scene if if features a girl in a decently fitting boilersuit and wellies, or decently fitting dungarees, or high waist combat trousers and army boots as long as no untucked top to block the view. And beyond the basics of "was this competently filmed", I'm unlikely to change my decision based on the technical quality of the kit or cinematic skill of the producer.
I guess I've kind of always assumed most of the market is the same, as long as the footage is competent and you can see the important bits (which obvs change from buyer to buyer), I'm not fussed whether it was shot on a phone or $100k of cinema-quality cameras - it's the outfit(s), and attractiveness of model(s), and whether it looks like they were enjoying doing it, are the primary things that persuade me to buy a scene.
In response to @Muhmy2's comment, I gather the vast majority of traffic here is now phones and tablets rather than PCs, so I suspect the majority do indeed watch on their phones. But a phone can be turned landscape so there's no need to shoot vertical for that. This is also why I'm sticking to 1080p resolution - Everything I've shot since 2019 has been mastered in 4K, but given only a machine can tell the difference between Full-HD and 4K on a phone screen, I see no point wasting people's storage space with unnecessarily large files. In the future we can remaster if we need to, but for now, Full-HD will give sparkling results on smartphones and still looks great on a PC screen.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
I don't know about Insta because I don't use it, but if you shoot horizontal doesn't it then just force it into a vertical frame? So now you're a smaller frame of video inside a small frame. Insta and Tiktok are to me more like gimmick spots, where the gimmick is you just shoot from your phone and upload them...but I guess at this point it's not really a gimmick anymore it's just how people shoot a lot of stuff.
Even when I take photos on my phone I prefer horizontal.
Even when I take photos on my phone I prefer horizontal.
The only instances where I like vertical video (I do tend to watch these videos on my tablet, for the record, so in this case the image is not small and fills up the screen) is when the subject of the video is standing front and center and filling up the frame. For me, Brattyshortcakes in a lot of her "MILF" scenes and Chloe G both do this very well; the backgrounds are clean and minimal, and it looks like thought was put into it. When there is a lot of empty space (black bars on sides or empty space above), it doesn't work as well.
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
Muhmy2 said: I don't know about Insta because I don't use it, but if you shoot horizontal doesn't it then just force it into a vertical frame?
I've heard of that, possibly in relation to (some?) Apple devices, but none of my Android phones have ever done that - I shoot in landscape, it records in landscape.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
DungeonMasterOne said: As a buyer, vertical video is one of the things that instantly puts me off buying a scene. It's not a total no-sale, but before even looking at the thumbnails it's in the "probably not" category and in the vast majority of cases will then turn out to be badly lit and not very well filmed. I've seen exceptions, and I know you can get good results with a phone camera - I tried using mine, in landscape mode, as a second camera during a shoot a while back and the results were very good, though the colour balance and intensity was massively different from my main camcorder and as it was from almost the same angle I saw no need to release that footage. But it definitely proved you can shoot decent WAM with a phone, I already shoot railway videos that way and no-one's ever complained. But even using the phone, I shoot landscape, it's not hard to turn the phone sideways to film, in what to me is the natural way to do it.
I can see there could be an argument for vertical footage of something like a gunge tank as an extra, for people to watch on their phones. But in all but a very few cases, shooting vertical means lots of panning back and forth which is irritating to watch - just turn it landscape so it can see the whole scene and both models, and leave it static. After all someone viewing on a phone can easily turn it landscape - I mean I can't imagine people watch movies on their phones in portrait mode, that would be insane.
Generally if I'm buying a scene, I don't want fancy editing, and I particularly do not want to find the scene cuts from one camera to another just as it's hitting my personal money shots - so a single camera that shows all of the action and does not jig about or zoom in is my ideal. The thing I want to see above all else in a WAM video is the model's clothes from the waist down going from clean to messy (or the water rising up that area if they are walking down into a bath or pool).
But the overwhelming decisions makers for me are, first, the outfit(s). That's the absolute most important point, I'll certainly consider almost any scene if if features a girl in a decently fitting boilersuit and wellies, or decently fitting dungarees, or high waist combat trousers and army boots as long as no untucked top to block the view. And beyond the basics of "was this competently filmed", I'm unlikely to change my decision based on the technical quality of the kit or cinematic skill of the producer.
I guess I've kind of always assumed most of the market is the same, as long as the footage is competent and you can see the important bits (which obvs change from buyer to buyer), I'm not fussed whether it was shot on a phone or $100k of cinema-quality cameras - it's the outfit(s), and attractiveness of model(s), and whether it looks like they were enjoying doing it, are the primary things that persuade me to buy a scene.
In response to @Muhmy2's comment, I gather the vast majority of traffic here is now phones and tablets rather than PCs, so I suspect the majority do indeed watch on their phones. But a phone can be turned landscape so there's no need to shoot vertical for that. This is also why I'm sticking to 1080p resolution - Everything I've shot since 2019 has been mastered in 4K, but given only a machine can tell the difference between Full-HD and 4K on a phone screen, I see no point wasting people's storage space with unnecessarily large files. In the future we can remaster if we need to, but for now, Full-HD will give sparkling results on smartphones and still looks great on a PC screen.
I can see there could be an argument for vertical footage of something like a gunge tank as an extra, for people to watch on their phones. But in all but a very few cases, shooting vertical means lots of panning back and forth which is irritating to watch - just turn it landscape so it can see the whole scene and both models, and leave it static. After all someone viewing on a phone can easily turn it landscape - I mean I can't imagine people watch movies on their phones in portrait mode, that would be insane.
Generally if I'm buying a scene, I don't want fancy editing, and I particularly do not want to find the scene cuts from one camera to another just as it's hitting my personal money shots - so a single camera that shows all of the action and does not jig about or zoom in is my ideal. The thing I want to see above all else in a WAM video is the model's clothes from the waist down going from clean to messy (or the water rising up that area if they are walking down into a bath or pool).
But the overwhelming decisions makers for me are, first, the outfit(s). That's the absolute most important point, I'll certainly consider almost any scene if if features a girl in a decently fitting boilersuit and wellies, or decently fitting dungarees, or high waist combat trousers and army boots as long as no untucked top to block the view. And beyond the basics of "was this competently filmed", I'm unlikely to change my decision based on the technical quality of the kit or cinematic skill of the producer.
I guess I've kind of always assumed most of the market is the same, as long as the footage is competent and you can see the important bits (which obvs change from buyer to buyer), I'm not fussed whether it was shot on a phone or $100k of cinema-quality cameras - it's the outfit(s), and attractiveness of model(s), and whether it looks like they were enjoying doing it, are the primary things that persuade me to buy a scene.
In response to @Muhmy2's comment, I gather the vast majority of traffic here is now phones and tablets rather than PCs, so I suspect the majority do indeed watch on their phones. But a phone can be turned landscape so there's no need to shoot vertical for that. This is also why I'm sticking to 1080p resolution - Everything I've shot since 2019 has been mastered in 4K, but given only a machine can tell the difference between Full-HD and 4K on a phone screen, I see no point wasting people's storage space with unnecessarily large files. In the future we can remaster if we need to, but for now, Full-HD will give sparkling results on smartphones and still looks great on a PC screen.
I ask this one fundamental question: Do you want to just shoot a video or create a SCENE?
There is very little story telling you can do with vertical video, or rather, you severely limit the canvas you can work off of. For my wrestling content, this is a no brainer. I want the viewer to feel like they are part of the show. Everything I do from the angles I choose, the movement of the camera, all the way down to the focal lengths and lighting are all done for one purpose and one purpose alone and that is to give the viewer the most up front, in your face, emotionally charged show imaginable. I want people to root for their favorite or boo the heel. I want to emotionally connect to our fans on that level because deep down, I am a fan as well. Now imagine trying to do all that with a vertical shot. It's just not gonna fly.
Do you need an expensive camera? No. You can definitely get cinematic with any camera as long as you understand the principles of shooting video and if someone doesn't understand things like aperture, ISO, and shutter speed it's high time to learn because all three of those things affect your shot in very different ways.
I have seen pristine cinematic video shot off an iPhone and I have even done it myself. Blackmagic Designs even created an app where you can record in full 4K ProRes and effectively control your entire shot like you would any cinema camera all the way down to white balance, exposure, among others. Hell, Polar Pro, Smallrig and even K&F make lenses, rigs, filters and adapters for both Apple and Samsung devices for this purpose. Is it as good as being shot off a Sony FX3? Of course not but for the casual viewer here, it would pass in most cases as long as it was shot right.
The point here is, devices vary but the fundamentals of shooting rarely change. -Horizontal video
-shoot at highest resolution possible (yes, shoot in 4k. You will be happy to have those extra pixels later in post. Trust me)
-understand lighting (which means not really quantity of light but rather proper use of it)
-understand framing. Use frame guides if you have to.
-understand exposure
There is way more but those will come in time and from there you can get creative with it but I think this all comes with practice outside the set. Shoot everything. Not just kink. I dunno, find something that interests you most, start filming and then practice post editing with it for the hell of it. I made more progress learning with that vs just waiting for an opportunity to shoot tbh
Making smut is easy. Making art takes more!
Muhmy2 said: I don't know about Insta because I don't use it, but if you shoot horizontal doesn't it then just force it into a vertical frame? So now you're a smaller frame of video inside a small frame. Insta and Tiktok are to me more like gimmick spots, where the gimmick is you just shoot from your phone and upload them...but I guess at this point it's not really a gimmick anymore it's just how people shoot a lot of stuff.
Even when I take photos on my phone I prefer horizontal.
Even when I take photos on my phone I prefer horizontal.
So Meta has realized that people like me refuse to change our shooting methods so they now offer a 16x9 option for reels but it sucks because it's just a 16x9 on a IG canvas which I would rather make the viewer flip their phone and view the whole screen by rotating the image before posting. The other option is to crop your image to square canvas which can be horrible if you didn't frame your shot with that purpose in mind.
Making smut is easy. Making art takes more!
I will always share this video in every thread that discusses vertical video.. It's been floating around for over a decade and rings true to this day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dechvhb0Meo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dechvhb0Meo
DungeonMasterOne said:
I've heard of that, possibly in relation to (some?) Apple devices, but none of my Android phones have ever done that - I shoot in landscape, it records in landscape.
Muhmy2 said: I don't know about Insta because I don't use it, but if you shoot horizontal doesn't it then just force it into a vertical frame?
I've heard of that, possibly in relation to (some?) Apple devices, but none of my Android phones have ever done that - I shoot in landscape, it records in landscape.
I honestly haven't paid much attention lately, but there was an earlier Android version where the camera used the orientation the phone was in when you fired up the camera app and refused to change. You had to shut it down, rotate the phone, and then turn on the app again. I only shoot horizontal, so I got into the habit of rotating the phone first. I don't even think about it anymore. It's just muscle memory.
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
Nostalgic Erotica Prod said: I ask this one fundamental question: Do you want to just shoot a video or create a SCENE?
Not sure if all of your reply was meant for me or not, but been thinking about this question.
Short answer: I want to shoot what I will enjoy, and get turned on by, watching. And as such I want to avoid all the things that for me spoiled the off-the-TV clips I'd collected prior to 95 and discovering I wasn't the only person on the planet into fully clothed WAM. So no zooming in, no close ups that cut out the actual getting-messy action, no cutting to a different camera just as the current one is about to film a money-shot, or other distractions. I want to film my people getting messy the same way I would enjoy watching them if it was a live show.
I became a producer in the first place because I realised it was the only way the scenes I wanted to see would ever get made. I already knew my way round both photo and video gear, having been shooting a variety of subjects with SLRs since the 80s and video since 92. By co-incindence I've literally just bought the gear to digitise my old VHS camera tapes, lots of railway scenes from 30+ years go. Also last night digitised[1] the first or my Messy Fun videos, "Substance Abuse" - Rob Blaine was an absolute master of the craft and is still my main inspiration in WAM filming today, but even he wasn't going to start filming girls in industrial overalls and wellies.
I guess the storytelling I do is in the descriptions and the back-story to the sites. The actual scenes themselves are just straight reportage, let the viewer see everything (these days for indoor scenes the camera is usually tripod-mounted, though outdoor ones are hand-shot), which also has the advantage of minimal editing needed. And definitely no vertical video!
soundguy said: I honestly haven't paid much attention lately, but there was an earlier Android version where the camera used the orientation the phone was in when you fired up the camera app and refused to change. You had to shut it down, rotate the phone, and then turn on the app again. I only shoot horizontal, so I got into the habit of rotating the phone first. I don't even think about it anymore. It's just muscle memory.
Yikes - that'd be infuriating. Both photo and video cameras on my Samsung will rotate to whatever orientation I'm holding it in, and switch if I rotate it while the cameras are open. Never tried it while actually filming, but it'll definitely turn with the camera while paused. I'll often shoot portrait-mode stills on a railway station, switch to video mode, turn the phone landscape, and observe the mode change on screen, then film a train leaving in landscape mode, all without having to shut down the camera app.
[1] - For the benefit of general readers, these are strictly for my own use only, I won't be making them available anywhere, copyright still applies, and nor will I be selling / giving away the VHS originals, as I can only have the digital versions as long as I also still own the VHS tapes.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
6/28/25, 5:29pm: No-bump reply
For (semi)professional producers and people with sufficient room to get messy and record that in landscape i fully understand the strong preference for landscape. Unless the scene almost demands for portait like the mentioned gunge tank or something with a model standing upright and getting pied with not much else happening at either side.
Though for amateurs (like me) there are more constraints. I recorded a few of my own sessions just as challenge if i could get a result that would be considerable being "decent". I actually did,
I have a small bathroom, about 2,5 m square with only a shower cabin in one corner. Cabin has high walls with a door at 45 degrees between them. I got messy in the shower, and my bathroom was just big enough to put my camera (phone mounted to a stand) in portait to record through the open door without getting door frame in the recording. If i would have turned the camera to landscape it would have only shown more door frame and wall and less of the action.
I watch my adult content almost always on my phone so no problem with portait orientation. So i prefer to get the file in the orientation it was recorded in and not a forced landscape with black bars at either side to look at a tiny portrait video on a phone. On a bigger screen that can not pivot it means black bars for a vertical recording but the image is at least bigger.
So, i'm more practical about it, and i think amateurs (like me) should not feel too forced to go for landscape if the best result would call for portait.
Though for amateurs (like me) there are more constraints. I recorded a few of my own sessions just as challenge if i could get a result that would be considerable being "decent". I actually did,
I have a small bathroom, about 2,5 m square with only a shower cabin in one corner. Cabin has high walls with a door at 45 degrees between them. I got messy in the shower, and my bathroom was just big enough to put my camera (phone mounted to a stand) in portait to record through the open door without getting door frame in the recording. If i would have turned the camera to landscape it would have only shown more door frame and wall and less of the action. I watch my adult content almost always on my phone so no problem with portait orientation. So i prefer to get the file in the orientation it was recorded in and not a forced landscape with black bars at either side to look at a tiny portrait video on a phone. On a bigger screen that can not pivot it means black bars for a vertical recording but the image is at least bigger.
So, i'm more practical about it, and i think amateurs (like me) should not feel too forced to go for landscape if the best result would call for portait.
messyhot said: I will always share this video in every thread that discusses vertical video.. It's been floating around for over a decade and rings true to this day!
OhMyGoddess! That is incredible! I love it!
Gonna run off and share it with some artists I know because they will absolutely understand!
- sloppy wet kisses!
Vertical on a tablet is really nice when a solo model is standing or sitting on a high chair or gunge tank.
Taking vertical footage, scaling it down, and adding 2/3rds black bars to make the video format horizontal is just awful. Just sell the vertical footage.
One thing I have noticed in Messygirl's older videos is having a 45 degree tilt. Messygirl's handheld video quality has always been pretty good, stable panning around the model, capturing good angles and positions, no shaking, and no camera noises. Messygirl videos have also had fixed positions, close ups, and birds eye.
For vertical vs horizontal, it really depends on the background. If the background is a kitchen or outdoors, it adds to the scene and makes it more exciting to see it in landscape. If the background is a backdrop or plain wall then it doesn't matter and vertical is fine. If the background has messy items prepared, then horizontal. If the background is a tropical forest mud pit, horizontal. It also depends on the stance of the model because landscape captures horizontal positions better.
The front facing cameras are not that good. I think some do this because that way they can see themselves as they record, and this could result in a better performance which is nice. It also results in a lot of eye contact with the camera which I think is nice. For better quality video, it is better to use the main camera. Or use a cool phone like the Asus Zenfone Flip.
Vertical footage feels a bit closer up and intimate. The models face, body, and privates can all be seen in one shot. Horizontal closeups just crop too much.
Regarding split footage vs edited into one scene, it really depends on the scene. If it is a scripted scene with dialogue, then I would expect multiple angles to be edited into one continuous video. I do really like multiple angles though. One of my favorite moments in wam (scene no longer available) was filmed from two angles. One angle was birds eye and the other was level. The main angle was 1080p and the other is in 2K. It is just fantastic and I really like watching from two angles separately. In another scene from this producer (also deleted from umd), the main angle is horizontal, I can see the models face to her thighs, and I can see the producer standing on a stool next to her. The same scene has a separate vertical angle showing the models head to her feet, but it does not include the producer standing on a stool. The vertical footage of her getting slimed is just better and shows her doing something interesting with her feet smearing the mess on her calves. I really enjoyed seeing both horizontal and vertical separately.
Taking vertical footage, scaling it down, and adding 2/3rds black bars to make the video format horizontal is just awful. Just sell the vertical footage.
One thing I have noticed in Messygirl's older videos is having a 45 degree tilt. Messygirl's handheld video quality has always been pretty good, stable panning around the model, capturing good angles and positions, no shaking, and no camera noises. Messygirl videos have also had fixed positions, close ups, and birds eye.
For vertical vs horizontal, it really depends on the background. If the background is a kitchen or outdoors, it adds to the scene and makes it more exciting to see it in landscape. If the background is a backdrop or plain wall then it doesn't matter and vertical is fine. If the background has messy items prepared, then horizontal. If the background is a tropical forest mud pit, horizontal. It also depends on the stance of the model because landscape captures horizontal positions better.
The front facing cameras are not that good. I think some do this because that way they can see themselves as they record, and this could result in a better performance which is nice. It also results in a lot of eye contact with the camera which I think is nice. For better quality video, it is better to use the main camera. Or use a cool phone like the Asus Zenfone Flip.
Vertical footage feels a bit closer up and intimate. The models face, body, and privates can all be seen in one shot. Horizontal closeups just crop too much.
Regarding split footage vs edited into one scene, it really depends on the scene. If it is a scripted scene with dialogue, then I would expect multiple angles to be edited into one continuous video. I do really like multiple angles though. One of my favorite moments in wam (scene no longer available) was filmed from two angles. One angle was birds eye and the other was level. The main angle was 1080p and the other is in 2K. It is just fantastic and I really like watching from two angles separately. In another scene from this producer (also deleted from umd), the main angle is horizontal, I can see the models face to her thighs, and I can see the producer standing on a stool next to her. The same scene has a separate vertical angle showing the models head to her feet, but it does not include the producer standing on a stool. The vertical footage of her getting slimed is just better and shows her doing something interesting with her feet smearing the mess on her calves. I really enjoyed seeing both horizontal and vertical separately.
DungeonMasterOne said:
Not sure if all of your reply was meant for me or not, but been thinking about this question.
Not sure if all of your reply was meant for me or not, but been thinking about this question.
Apologies but it was a theoretical question not directly aimed at anyone but made to invoke introspection in all creators and producers of why we do what we do (ie To make money vs I have a sincere love or enjoyment of creating this content (not gratification, that's different), commerce vs art). For me it's the reaction I get from our fans. The fact that my vision can be shared with so many despite how niche my genre is truly humbling.
Like you, I shoot what I want in a scene and what I want is something a step above but fun and hits all the right nerves. GLAM (miss you, brother!) and myself joke back and forth about how he is WCW and we are Attitude Era WWF/ECW and that kinda holds true. I liked the grit and audacity of wrestling in that time period and ironically much of the Hollywood Strip throughout the glam metal scene had that same energy. That's what (I hope) we present to our viewers
Making smut is easy. Making art takes more!
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