Just curious what folks think. Nothing more than personal curiosity.

honestly, i don't think it matters if Trump is re-elected or not. The way i see it, there are marxist forces that hope to turn the USA into a socialist Utopia, and there are Patriots who would rather die than see that happen. As Thomas Jefferson said: the Tree of Liberty periodically need to be refreshed with the blood of tyrants and patriots alike...

(actually, i should have GOOGLED the quote, but meh...too much to do, not enough time...)

You say socialist utopia like thats a terrible thing lol.

It is but we'll forgo that in favor of the op's original question. Should President Trump get a second term? You could debate that all day. Will he get a second term? Most likely, yes.

I'm still missing President Reagan.

By the most strictest terms of that definition, (if it could be achieved) it would be *SO* wonderful, but from what i have seen, there's this ONE "fly in the ointment" which would be ~human nature~ which seems to lead to corruption, misery, inequality... the VERY things that were supposed to be avoided...

You mean like giving trillions of socialist handout dollars to companies too lazy, stupid or ignorant to prepare for tough times, or like the Fed buying trillions of dollars of these same companies debt to stave off the inevitable economic crash? Do you mean the Fed buying trillions more in government bonds so the current socialist handout machine can be temporarily sustained? Or do you mean a socialist utopia where farmers who supported the "tariff man" who destroyed international trade for political points who now have their hands out to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars in socialist handouts? Or do you mean socialist handouts in the trillions to private organizations such as the boy raping, failing Catholic church, which was given 14.2 BILLION dollars in socialist handouts? And why, exactly????

Just curious as to the "socialist utopia" you are referring to because Congress is now deadlocked because $600 a week for poor people, which is just 25% over poverty level, is too much while billionaires and multimillionaires are getting tens of trillions in socialist handouts that WE THE PEOPLE have to pay back. And just for the record, it's not the $600 in socialist handouts keeping working people from going back to work, it's that they don't want to die for minimum wage so billionaires can get richer.

Not to mention the racists, white supremacists, and nazis who want their own utopia and a civil war to get it, where the Constitution is ripped up, and the Republic is replaced by an all white, all christian, all straight nuclear ethno state, which literally is their mantra, look it up. You know, those wonderful people walking into WalMarts, churches, and synagogues blowing away dozens of people with "patriotic AR's" while others plow their cars into peaceful crowds. Are you calling THESE people "patriots"?????

I have taken an oath to uphold the Constitution a total of 9 times, 5 in the military and 4 as a civilian. When you join the military, you take an oath to uphold the Constitution, not the whims of a president, not even to protect the American people, but to defend that little piece of paper which guarantees the RIGHTS of ALL Americans and the process by which this government operates. THAT is a patriot.

My two cents. Enjoy!

Madeline

In my honest opinion, there's no way in hell I would support that horrendous man. But I think it's possible he will get back in again.
Never underestimate stupidity in numbers!!!!!

It's slightly futile for us folks outside of the US to give their views on the American election (myself included). Americans either know, or ought to know, that since 2008 the rest of the developed world looks at them as a dangerous liability. It is not a democracy that can be negotiated with, but a toxic, belligerant, and failing plutocracy that needs to be quarantined, handled, and mitigated. I think the magnitude of the disgust and horror from former allies might be pretty hard to process or take seriously.

That having been said, I think even within America it should be pointless to talk about Trump, as a person. Everyone knows he's insane. (That's precisely why his disestablishmentarian base likes him.) The question is whether or not the *Republicans* will get a second term, given that Trump is their leader, and given that he has led them to the steady and pointless deaths of legions of citizens. I would be especially aware of the people who are lying to you, who mislead you about death tolls, and so on -- watch them, take their names, and never forget what they've done.

2008? Is it really only that recently?

I can't speak for other countries, but there was a LOT of good-will after 2001. People crying at the attacks. I know people in my family who cold-called random New Yorkers to say how sorry they were.

As years went on, among the rich countries, there was even a pretty significant (but far less) amount after the Downing St Memo, the failures of planning around Iraq, the stupidity of the emerging Fox discourse, and Powell's ludicrous case for war. These events were seen as betrayals of purpose on the left (though they ought to have been visible to everyone). But even so, states are ultimately selfish tribes, not stewards for morality, so I guess most allies were able to tolerate the idea of America as an empire even if they disliked it.

But the dark (and entirely selfish) realpolitikal bottom line of 2008 was that the USA's failures to keep its shit together had first-world ramifications. America stopped being a rogue colonial adventurer with terrible morals, an Indiana Jones type, but turned into an actual threat to rich countries, a USSR type. Obama helped to win back some good will, but there's a sense in which it was too late, since the structural rot in their political and economic institutions had been exposed, and in the subsequent decade we've seen how committed the American elites are to the rot.

I'd rather he didn't, as a UK citizen with a work visa in the US it affects me in two very real ways.

1.) The handling of the pandemic
2.) How visa holders have been treated since Trump took office, particularly over the past few months

I'm not American, but have always regarded America with respect because of its values of freedom and democracy.
Trump has taken a lot of my respect away.
His constant lies, his abuse of others and the way he attacks his friends and allies has to stop.
He speaks more highly of Putin than he does of Western Europeans.
I just hope that Joe Biden wins, but then he will face a god awful job, trying to put America back together again.

Forgot to say thanks to Madeleine Oasis too, for her reply above.
Put aside all her wetlook delights (just for a moment).
She talks sense.
Patriotism means defending the rights of those with whom you disagree.
To speak freely.

2 cents? Are you not aware that freedom (due to inflation) now costs "a buck-oh-five"???

...from memory...
i [state your name] do solemly swear to support and defend the Constitution of the Unites States of American against all enemies. And to bear true faith and allegiance to the same. And to obey the orders of the President and the officers and non-commissioned officers appointed over me. I take this oath freely and without reservation ** so help me God **

and now i go and google "oath of enlistment"

Well, not a perfect recitement but there does seem to be a *slightly* different version (mainly on account of revisions over the years...)

i vaguely recall some form of "oath of office" for the one year that i worked for the US Gov as a civilian.

As for the military version, my service history suggests i have said it 6 times (the most memorable was after my 2nd "break in service" when i was never quite sure if I would be allowed to re-join!

So apparently we are both Patriots(?) ** i must EDIT ** ...when someone takes an oath, that does not mean they actually had to do something to defend that little piece of paper... er... Madeline, please look for my poll appearing VERY soon...

I was somewhat at odds with many of your comments, but it appears you were somewhat at odds with many of mine. Instead of arguing based on hearsay, there was a youtube video i would ask you to watch first... (the last time i posted a link, it seemed somehow to automatically break down as soon as i tried to link to it from UMD???)

instead do a search on youtube for "before the end of 2020 watch this" it is barely over 10 minutes long. If you manage to even watch HALF of it, let me know what you thought about it...

I think it's interesting to see such a degree of unreasonable contempt coming from a guy who has sunglasses MS-painted onto his face.

He's a prick but I don't think he's the worst President you've ever had, that, imo has got to be Herbert Hoover, who thought that the Great Depression would somehow go away if he just ignored it. Harding is another strong candidate, corrupt, mob connections, saw the presidency as an opportunity to loot the country.

The best? Franklin Roosevelt, head and shoulders above the rest.

Also, who was the last republican President who wasn't either bent, an imbecile or a psychopath? Probably Eisenhower, Ford maybe, but he was just a kind of caretaker manager

Wait, help me with the math here. By that logic, shouldn't ignoring a long-term crippled economy AND ignoring an active plague mean...?

Well, we should probably wait and see who Biden selects as his VP before we make any full decision. He's mentally not really all there and very well could step down or hand a lot of responsibility over to whoever he picks.

I am leaning towards Trump right now, though. I think prior to COVID he was doing good things for the economy, he has handled Covid 6 out of 10 in my book (flawed but not disastrously so) and I just don't see Joe Biden making a compelling reason for me to give him my vote. While Trump has not been perfect, who would?, I support his less intrusive and war like foreign policy over Joe Biden who was one of the architects of the horrendous Iraq War. He seemed to try and sue for some stability and peace in Asia with NKorea, he hasn't started new wars, he's trying hard to get us out of Afghanistan and I support all that. Joe would almost assuredly be a return to more wars and more foreign entanglements.

Trump was also right about China, especially now with us learning about them legitimately having concentration camps and minority slaves.

I am also concerned with the way many Democrat leaders are mishandling Covid or their cities, and I can't completely blame Joe for this, but some of that is rubbing off on him. I don't want my country to resemble Portland or Chicago.

I worded this poorly, it's saying that I support his less intrusive and also less war like foreign policy (at least when compared to war hawks like Joe Biden).

I wasn't suggesting I liked war hawks, I do not.

How badly would Trump have had to bungle this situation in order to receive a failing grade from you? In another week or so the U.S. death toll will surpass that of lives we lost in the first World War and Vietnam combined.

Me, I reckon Trump deserves a 2 out of 10 on this issue, and that's generous. Look at at virtually any other country in the world for comparison and they've done better. The US has 4% of the world's population, yet 25% of the cases of COVID, and 23% of the world's deaths from it.

CASES OF THE VIRUS ARE EIGHT TIMES AS HIGH IN THE U.S. PER CAPITA AS THEY ARE IN THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED (i.e. looking at the entire world population minus that of the U.S.).

How in the fuck is that NOT a disaster?

No, Trump can't be blamed for everything about the virus, but his ludicrously long inaction on it and denial that it was a serious issue at all, his continual downplaying of its effects, his pushing to restart the economy way too early, a delay of FIVE FUCKING MONTHS before he finally issued a tepid touting of mask wearing as a sensible and socially responsible thing to do (and then turned around and undercut even that hours later), his continual insults and denigrations of scientific experts who understand this matter infinitely better than he does, his pushing for school to resume in the fall -- all of this makes him accountable for a LOT of the damage the virus has done and continues to do to American lives and our economy.

If Trump had taken action a lot sooner rather than sticking his head in the sand for two and half months, if he'd followed the lead of what much more sensible countries (i.e. almost anyone else) were doing, if America's progress in combating the virus mirrored the rest of the world's, then THE U.S. WOULD NOW HAVE 28,000 DEATHS INSTEAD OF 163,000. But what difference do those 135,000 additional lost lives mean to a guy like you who can write them all off based on some deeply erroneous driving accident statistics and flu comparisons? Oh right, and there's also your "compassionate conservatism" at work when you say things like: Oh, it's mostly just killing old people anyway. They were probably going to die soon anyway. (And you have very much said this at multiple points in the past.)

Yes you do. The first thing your Republican president did this year was to declare war on Iran by killing a senior military official for no particular reason.

Thank you so much everyone for voting and commenting. I know politics, and especially anything Trump related, can get intense. I will be honest, the reason I asked was because I have anxiety about this guy continuing to lead the country. Everything about this man goes against my moral and ethical standing. That being said, Joe Biden isn't necessarily the best alternate we could have hoped for. I think this election is going to be a referendum on Trump and hopefully whoever Biden's running mate is will be able to step up to the plate if needed.

That all being said, everyone is respectfully entitled to their opinion. So if you are a Trump person then that is your right. You are still a fellow human and I only wish the best for everyone.

Thanks again everyone!

Well, here are the 4 candidates running for POTUS this year:
Green
Libertarian
Democrat
Republican

Or maybe it's the Republican & Democrat candidates with their Vice-Presidential running mates.

[quote The US has 4% of the world's population, yet 25% of the cases of COVID, and 23% of the world's deaths from it.

CASES OF THE VIRUS ARE EIGHT TIMES AS HIGH IN THE U.S. PER CAPITA AS THEY ARE IN THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED (i.e. looking at the entire world population minus that of the U.S.). quote]

We're pretty bad in the UK too.
What worries me is Trump's denial and refusal to face facts.
I heard him on Fox, a couple of weeks ago, insisting that US has the best figures.
Like if you tell a big enough lie, and tell it often enough, then enough people might believe you.

If you can't trust a leader to accept factual reality, what would happen if (God forbid) there ever was a real threat of war?

There. Problem solved:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGhJQtylDbI

Lemme see...


it does appear that i can...

You know what, I'm surprised Biden's VP pick isn't Hillary Clinton. Until the last minute, I thought he'd pick her so that, 4 months after the election, the DNC could declare Biden to be senile and give Hillary the presidency she's been desperate for.
Still, you guys over there are really going to have it rough for another 4 years, no matter who wins. It could be time to try third parties, you know...

Funny pic my vegan trucker friend sent me.

That's a pretty normally-lit brain idea.

Galaxy brain idea: Joe Lieberman for VP. Double the Joementum!!