Long time lurker but I just signed up. I have been seeing a lot of topics lately about paying for porn. I get it it's a business we all would like to make money. But what I would love to know is how many of these people are also the same people that pirated songs back in the day. Or are still watching pirated Hollywood movies and TV. Because this topic really screams of hypocrisy the same people that scream pay for porn are the first ones looking for free handouts. This is just an observation since I have happened to be introduced to someone who has gotten into this business. And now demands people pay her not just for her product but also to talk. The more I am exposed to porn and fetishes the more it has really begun to sour me. Just an observation thanks for your time.

This.

Also just because you know somebody who exhibits such hypocritical behavior does not mean they represent an entire population. I buy movies through iTunes and amazon. I have streaming services I pay for. I'm a grown up and don't feel entitled to anything I haven't earned, paid for or bartered for. With the load of these posts lately you'd think a bunch of pirates caught conscience or something and are seeking absolution

Your response cries to me as if this topic hit a personal spot for you. I don't feel like I need to justify my post but yes I have pirated them all at one time or another but I have also paid my fair share as well. I have included a picture of just what was on hand in my room of what I have paid for thank you very much. And some of those in the picture where from producers in this very community. Yes I do demand to get paid for at my vanilla job. I am signing a contract with that company to work for x hours to which I will payed a salary for that time. I'm not signing a contract with Hollywood music or porn upon purchase. I guess you have never made a mix tape off the radio either or copied a friend's vhs CD or tape etc.

And I will also add I am a artist I do drawings and paintings. Do you know how often people demand free artwork from me. Or try and low-ball me so please don't just paint everyone in the same box. I get upset that in the past when I have done done free work and said I will do it as long as you share it to which they didn't. Talk about pirated work but I guess it's fine to rip off an artist just don't rip off the music industry and porn and movie producers.

I grew up with a father who was a DJ and so I knew the value of going to a music store and paying for my music. And while you have a signed paper contract with your employer artists have more of an unwritten social contract that if people enjoy their stuff they'll pay for it. It's cosmically amusing to me that people try to justify theft of something just because it's not a physical object. Anybody who said "yeah I've had a lots of cars, some of them I paid for, some of them I stole" would be justifiably branded a criminal. For whatever reason people don't value creativity or production effort of art and of porn or the combination of both. That speaks more about their character and values than any defense or justification of that view that they could ever come up with. I get not everybody operates on an evolved thought level and some are stuck on the reptilian brain and that's ok. Of course you strike a nerve with your post and that's your intention. Come to a community of creators and say "hey I don't feel like I should feel bad for stealing because I know a creator who steals." Congratulations you've drawn attention to yourself while showing your hand. What's your next mission?

Whooos. Violated one of my own policies. Oh well that's what I get for having a moment or two of free time hahaah

I guess you have so0random. Would that also be an admission of guilt of multiple forms of the theft from artists just asking. I'm not trying to justify a thing I'm not saying I am angel. I just find it really hypocritical is all. I come from a family of musicans and friends. Music comes in two camps hey anyway I can get my art to the masses I'm down. And the you owe me for everything I do. Neither way is right or wrong eventually they all make some money some more than others. It depends on if your actually doing it for the art or for the money really. Some do it for the art and maybe make a few bucks others not so much.

Wow, you completely missed the point?

Producing WAM is my income, it is my job and for the job I do, I wish to be paid, to pay the mortgage, bills and put food on the table for me and my family.

If no one paid for it, me and all the people who worked for me wouldn't be paid.

What does your "vanilla" job do? Manufacturing? Sales? If people stopped paying for the services you provide and found a way to obtain those services for free, resulting in you getting paid less or not at all, you'd be pissed, right?

How is it that people do not understand this concept when it comes to media???

For me this is pretty simple regardless of morallity and ethics.

We have a pretty niche fetish here, and we are lucky we have the steady stream of output that we have. I'm confident that good/professional WAM production can get pretty expensive and i feel sad when i see stores close, people stop doing what they love and stop getting me off (that i love) and especially sad when its because of finances because it feels like it could have been avoidable.

main point... support it or lose it. This isnt EMI or Sony pictures, and if people cant make money making wam they'll do it another way.

Ok, you you are comparing
1. Making a mix tape off of the radio (which is bought and paid for by advertisers)
to
2. Copying and re-distributing movies (sometimes for profit)

That's kind of like apples and oranges no?

Man the 90s was full of mixtapes for me off the radio. But ya know what I didn't do though, make a shit ton of copies and hand them out or worse, sell them. Nor did I ever buy a copy of "Backdoor Sluts 9" and then make 150 copies to give or sell to friends.

I've mentioned a number of times in threads like these that I'm no saint. Yeah, I used Napster and Kazaa when I was a stupid young shit. And then I stopped. At first it was because I came to the realization that I was basically hoarding. Then later stuff like Pandora and Spotify came out. I don't have a need or even want to store up all this stuff now.

So now I just don't bother with it much, not even with the big companies. It's no secret that I fucking HATE Disney (hypocrites that stole 90% of their profits over the years through copyrighting public domain works). However, I still go see Marvel movies occasionally when they come out. But rather than see them when they are new, I go to a matinee, or over to a friends house when they come out. And when I do, I don't go out of my way to copy it for other people I don't even know or care about.

Did it make Crotch Capers 3 look like Naughty Nurses 2 though?

A new user account, posting for the first time, with a whinge that sounds just like another recent thread...

My thoughts from the first sentence. I've heard the same voice in other forums before. And I mean the very same.

Just noting that Afmaps has also been here for years as linku.

Messmaster

You mean the same "linku" that was responding to himself as "QuicksandPrincess" before he showed up here in his latest incarnation? Golly Gee...he sure had me fooled.

Yes, I was about to post that. Also CuteMuddyPrince, Clayfan, dannimon, and countless others. I'm banning all the profiles that I finding he's using right now.

Messmaster

Alright, who hasn't watched a free porn video on pornhub at one point in time? I think it's save to say we have all wanted free porn, who hasn't? Especially when we don't have an understanding of how much it can cost to produce, monetarily or professionally for us armatures. Now, who has willingly unloaded another persons video onto pornhub without the producers consent? Two very different things. By stealing a producers content and allowing the world to see it for free you are not only taking away the producers ability to cover the cost of models and supplies for the video stolen, but any future videos they might hope to produce.

I am on here at am armature level and do not offer custom videos, That means that every video I make comes out of my own pocket all the mess, equipment, and time editing is on me. Even at my level WAM isn't cheap to produce, and I don't even have to pay for a model because I am my model. Every video I make I try to cover the cost of the previous one and hopefully be able to gain a start on the next one. That means Each video I make determines the kind of mess I can produce in the future. If every video I made had one sale and was then put up for free with no one buying anymore copies I would stop making videos. It isn't worth sharing something if it is just going to be stolen from you.

Let's also take a moment to remember that models like Stella that do this at that level must also have a day job to pay the bills. There have been a number of models and producers that have disappeared because fear of the other job finding out (sometimes they do). Then there are the people in their everyday life that may find out they do this and then blackmail them. I know at least 2 people this has happened to.

WAM models and producers got 99 problems, people stealing their shit is just one of the big ones. Consider this maybe?

Wow, that's a lot of personalities. Clayfan was always playing the meek "woe is me, no one does what I like" part. This one has no problems outright confronting the community at large with how it should give away all their art for free.

Oh, is that who "Clayfan" was? I thought the name rang a bell. Posted back in the summer, I think, complaining that producers didn't do exactly the sort of mud clips he wanted, and then got quite stroppy with anyone who tried to point out that it might not be that simple, or perhaps he wasn't saying what he wanted in the right way, or maybe he should just order a custom...

That guy. Right. Gotcha.

i always tell people i dont know how some of these guys who have to pay models to come in actually do it. or people doing it from their own pockets. i do about a 60/40 ratio of "my own stuff from my own pocket" and "customs" the only reason i have backed down on customs is because i swear to god, you give a price and it is INSULTING what people try to chew you down to, to actually turn their fantasies into real life. i love doing them...and that is what sucks. i love to do them when i feel like im being treated fairly. when someone chews me down to NOTHING....i am just not as excited about it bc to be honest....i feel like "well, this person thinks im only worth THIS, YET i am spending days upon days getting ready for their custom, shopping, paying sitters, opening my home to models and camera guys.....i mean i love doign customs. its a total rush for me and yep...it does help. but with what you get chewed down to by some people? its not worth it. So, i have said no to a lot of them lately. Anyway, off topic....but man, having friends in the music industry here and in other countries, yeah, we all did the mix tapes off the radio.
potato man is right though. you share ONE of our vids....ONE TIME and its everywhere. fucking EVERYWHERE.

so, to let everyone know who i am very pleased are on here defending "pay for your stuff" i love it, btw......

my store offers REWARDS to the help of taking down pirated material.

you send me 50 vids of my pirated stuff (if you can find that many, ive been on a roll) and you get an entire months membership of my store for free. (you do have to show that you have purchased from my store before, in the past)

20 to 30? unreleased vids. or vids from my store of your choosing. OR you can choose to have 10 percent off a custom video.

you leave reviews? you get free vids...so that means you are basically getting buy one get one free....so i have no idea why people cant just pay. hell, i give so many opportunities to win free vids all the time. YET, we still got people like this moron....jesus....anyway.

stella i applaud you for what you do. mudbunny does about the same thing from my understanding. its hard yall. even doing amateur work. camera guys, filming in your own home, clean up, lights, sd cards, tarps, going through more shampoo than i can keep up with. plumber is here a few times a year...that is costly. hotels, indoor pools, editing, answering emails, not only that, but keeping OURSELVES up. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT WE PAY TAXES ON SOLD VIDEOS. VIDEOS WE ARE SELLING?? WE PAY TAXES. HELLA TAXES. I PAY OUT THE ASS!! IT IS A BUSINESS!!! we are women and got damn yall. we are rolling in some serious shit!! it messes with your face and hair and everything. i love it but it does come with aftermath! think about this stuff, guys and gals. please. we cant keep going without help. especially when you are trying to appease the public sometimes....duh....we all want to, to get some attention to our stores....and its never enough. "why didnt you get your feet more messy? why isnt your hair down? why dont you have your right pinky nail painted blue?" yall.....come on. us and MM keep this place rolling. think about what the fuck we would be doing without it and then think about sharing a stolen video. JUST ONE....can fuck a whole store up and you will see them fall....and continue to. PIRACY TIPS. USE THEM. !!!!

I think the most important thing if anything to take away from this "Troll" thread is that if you genuinely love something you will spend your hard earned money on it and you will want to see it continue to produce more content. I started out collecting trailers for wam videos now my collection is over 200 full length pay per download videos and counting. Often times I will come across a trailer or even a full length video some where , and even after watching I find myself still going out and buying it, its just like listening to a song on the radio then going out and purchasing it for download. Its the willingness to support those that make content even after your saw there content for free. That is what keeps it going. Those are just my thoughts take what you will.

Please remember people you're paying for someone's time. Someone who isn't your friend or your family, but rather someone to make something for you to beat off to.




I'm actually curious about what you and others have to do for this. Do you get away with a 1099, or do you have to do something HORRIBLE like a schedule C...because FUCK that. THAT ALONE should tell anyone that you are doing this out of some degree of love when you could make more money doing a W-2 job...