Hi wam lovers,

I am writing to ask your advice and help regarding some recent misunderstandings between my boyfriend and I regarding his wam fetish (is that the appropriate word?)

We have been dating for four months at this point, but very early in our relationship (three weeks or a month or so) he told me about his wam fetish, though he didn't use that term exactly. When telling me about it, he told me he had only been the "giver" during wam, and he recognized that there was an aspect of humiliation that was tough for him to reconcile.

It was the latter mention that made me uncomfortable, and visibly so, though I did not say anything explicitly because I did not want him to feel judged or shamed for something he was clearly very sensitive and confused about. While I was made extremely uncomfortable that he might be aroused by the humiliation of another person, I also understood that this aspect might not be the primary reason he enjoys wam. I can totally sympathize with the way the look and texture of cake batter - his preferred medium - would be arousing when on a body. But I could not accept if by doing this he got off on the feeling of causing someone else pain and humiliation. In my eyes, this is wrong and sadistic, even if it only exists in a sexual context.

So when he first asked me to do wam with him about a week ago, I was hesitant. I made my reluctance fairly clear - though because he asked me over a text message, it was hard to convey this and made me feel like he did not want to have a informed conversation around this. I told him that I was willing to explore this with him, not because it was something I found particularly arousing, but because I knew it was something that makes him incredibly satisfied and happy. To me, I explained, it was like giving a blowjob - I don't enjoy the sensation of giving blowjobs per se, but I enjoy giving my partner pleasure.

I only stipulated one condition - that I could slime him back. This felt fair. If he were only interested in the look and sensation of the cake batter, then everything would be the same. But he responded, "I know it's awful, but I kind of just want to get you messy. I think part of what arouses me is that the situation is unequal." While I know millions of people participate in fetishes that involve imbalances of power, equality is one of the values I hold most dear, and so this really hurt me.

My mind then returned to what he had said about humiliation. The fact that he actively wanted an unequal playing field in which only I was getting messy made me feel as if he would get some perverse pleasure and sense of power out of my being messy while he was not. This I found to be incredibly hurtful. I felt that someone who loved me wanted to gain pleasure out of my pain and humiliation, and this was a notion that I could not erase from my mind. And even if he were not directly deriving pleasure from my humiliation, it pained me to think that in spite of the fact that he knew this was something that others find humiliating, he still asked me to do it with him.

Over the past few days, my boyfriend has continually backtracked, taking back things he had said before about humiliation and wanting to feel powerful and controlling. However, I am finding it very hard believe these things, because they are so contradictory to his original statements. I want to believe him so badly, but the thought that he might be trying to hurt me severely damaged my sense of trust and my idea of who he is as a person.

Has anyone here experienced a similar conflict when introducing your wam fetish to partners without the fetish? Please give me any and all advice that you can. I want so badly to understand his fetish and to not believe that he wants to be aroused by my humiliation. I also understand that he feels very judged by how I have reacted - which I did so with complete earnestness, but no desire to make him feel like a freak. Certainly I view wam as a bit extreme and non-mainstream, but that does not mean that I see it as at all bad in and of itself.

Thank you!

Well I see it like this - it's just fantasy roleplaying/acting - and it's REALLY important to separate that from real life. He doesn't really want to control and humiliate in everyday situations, it's just part of his particular wam turn on

No one asks for a fetish or chooses what their fetish is, it just kind of happens, I don't think it's any reflection on him as a human at all.

That he has been able to talk about it with you and that you want to learn more speaks volumes about your relationship - this is a really good solid ground to start from, open and honest, and that's brilliant. I'd focus on that and enjoy some wam fun now and then. You can't go wrong then really! (as a couple I mean)

I get a huge kick out of ordering 'slaves' around and making them do messy things (and many more side fetishes!) but that is no reflection on me as a human.. in real life I'm not dominant at all and just the shy neighbour who will happily lend you a cup of sugar and help look for your cat if it goes missing. I don't want to control or humiliate anyone unless it's with their consent and desire to roleplay as such.

Yep I agree mostlythere.

here's an additional thing as well... having food or slime on you really isn't even 'that' humiliating. it's very harmless and fun and sensual and it's more about playing the role of 'humiliated'

a bit of slime is harmless fun from a harmless fetish, for roleplay and fun and no reflection on real life with no need to get into deep analysis. It's just fun

That's why people shy away from revealing their fetishes. Reveal your kink and it would be extended to judge your whole character.


Jesus Christ. Did he ask you to let him pour molten tar over you?

Many times have you must have seen feminists proclaiming to be submissive in bed, and that doesn't make them a hypocrite. Conversely wanting to be sexually dominant doesn't make one a freak or a sadist. Why are you confusing sexual humiliation with actual humiliation?

Does your understanding of kinks come exclusively from reading 'Fifty Shades of Grey'? If so, let me tell you it's a load of bullcrap. Probably no other contemporary piece of work has done so much damage to people with kinks. Now you can expect snap judgements any time one reveals a kink. "I like bondage." "Oh, were you sexually abused as a kid and are psychologically damaged because of that? You should seek help."

If you are wondering what might be the sexual 'appeal' of humiliation to him, I can help you there, because I too am a 'freak' like him. It has to do with the breaking of taboos and the rush it generates. And you know what that means? It means that humiliating someone is a great taboo for him. If my guess his right, your partner must be a perfect gentleman in the real world. And that's what matters. It doesn't make him a hypocrite.

Stay with him or leave, just don't let this petty thing be a factor in deciding that.

I think CandyCustard brings up a really good point: what we desire to see and do in the bedroom may have no reflection on who we are in our day-to-day dealings with people. I have often enjoyed dominating a lover as I pied and slimed her, and gotten off on the imbalance of power, but that would seem to be satisfying a purely sexual need, as I find no pleasure whatsoever in asserting power over women in any other setting. And on top of that, the "humiliation" that my lovers have felt is questionable, as there has been a lot of laughter involved on both sides. In fact, I can't get aroused if I sense that my partner isn't into it and fully consenting; in most cases (except for a few times my partner was a true submissive type), the "humiliation" was just an act. And the balance of power was often restored quite quickly after we climaxed and she put a pie in my face just for fun.

Another point that I latched onto while reading your post was your thought that your boyfriend wanted to gain pleasure out of your "pain and humiliation." I don't think that wanting to see you submit to getting slimed is necessarily equal to wanting to hurt you. He may be aroused by the idea of you submitting to him, but if he's like me at all, he doesn't want you to feel even the slightest discomfort. The humiliation does not have to go hand-in-hand with any kind of pain. And even the feeling of humiliation itself is (from my standpoint) hopefully just faked! I mean, sometimes I love to hear my wife say, "Oh my God! Please don't hit me with that pie!" but she never stops pleasuring me... and she sticks her face out and closes her eyes... it's all an act. And I WANT her to laugh after I do it. And yet, I can still say that it's the humiliation that turns me on.

So, I would really hope that you can see these two points: what your boyfriend wants to do in the bedroom doesn't necessarily say anything about how he wants to treat you in any other situation; and, the "humiliation" that would arouse him is most likely a non-painful, consensual, "fun" humiliation-play.

That's my two cents. Good luck with everything.


Andrew
PiedAsianGirls.com
MessyAsianFeet.com

All good points. I've psychoanalyzed this to death. Here is the bottom line. It's a role play. The fetish is mostly irrelevant as they all originate from humiliation, loss of power, etc. WAM is just your partner's ideal path as opposed to BDSM or being an adult baby or whatever. The reason he isn't keen on you messing him is he wants to play the dominator and wants you to play the victim. PLAY the victim. This is all play. If his kink were BDSM and he wanted to tie you up and spank you and you said only if I can tie you up and spank you - the fantasy is destroyed because the role of dominator and victim are reversed and no domination has occurred. Now if you genuinely wanted to mess him up because it was your fetish, and he refused, Huston we've got a problem. If you are willing to do it for him, I think he MUST be willing to do it for you - just in a separate session. That way each of you could experience the dominator role.

Do you have a fetish or fantasy? Right now is the perfect time for you to share that fantasy with your partner. If you choose to indulge in his, I'd ask him if he'd be up for participating in yours. You may find his tastes change over time and his fetish may evolve and take on some of the other 2000 shades of WAM (or other fetishes). Sadly, if you don't want to play the victim, it doesn't sound like he will be satisfied. He may have to abandon that fantasy or you guys will have to decide if it's going to be an insurmountable problem in your intimacy. Good luck. We need more sploshing couples!

I can relate to this.

Agreed with others: sex and reality are two differe things.

I would ask the female poster to reflect on her own sexuality, or sexual preferences (beyond the bj thing)...does she has ANY sexual kinks (role playing fantasies, etc.)? What is you "role" in these fantasies (sub, dom, switch, neutral)? If you fantasies or fetishes do not involve anything other than simply enjoyment of the sensation(s) (i.e., there's no play acting of roles, dom or sub, etc.), and you can honestly say there is NO power exchange going on whatsoever...or, you have ZERO sexual turn-ons, then you are probably relatively "vanilla" in terms of erotic exploration....these turn-ons may be lurking beneath the surface (or suppressed, or unexpressed), or maybe they are non-existent. I would say: look at this as an experiment erotic exploration...you may find aspects you enjoy (certainly what your partner enjoys), or not...If not, then you have to make a choice....continue with this guy (and occasionally indulge him, like the bj*)...or break it off...one thing is for sure: his fetish will always resurface. It's up to you.

* you might find that wam and oral ex go GREAT together

Brilliantly said

This is not normally something that I say, but I think that both sides of this conversation have good points. (Normally I'm much more partisan.) On the one hand, it is true that this is probably much less serious than the vocabulary makes it sound. "Humiliation" is a harsh and serious word outside of sexual contexts, but inside of sexual contexts its meaning is usually different in small but important ways. On the other hand, though, sexual trust and exploration should be reciprocal, so if one person is asking another to put themselves out there then that person should be willing to do the same.

So, to take the boyfriend's perspective first, it's very nearly certain that he doesn't want to actually humiliate anyone in the normal sense of the word. Domination is probably the better term because of its more obviously kinky overtones, but even that doesn't necessarily communicate the idea properly because it, too, sounds very mono-directional or objectifying. As best as I can figure from your description, what he probably wants is a connection that goes both ways or that, at the very least, relies on his partner maintaining her agency and volition. In particular, he wants his partner to voluntarily wear a sign of affection or dedication that he recognizes as being personal to him but that normally signifies a prank or teasing or something - which, in this case, is some slime or a pie to the face or whatever.

Now, maybe this doesn't describe him; I don't know the guy personally, so I could be wrong. But there's at least a good chance that the humiliation itself (or whichever word you prefer) is only a psychological waypoint of sorts, beyond which lies a powerful erotic idea like: "She must really love/value me, because look, she's doing these things for my sake even though they aren't normal things to do and even though she gets nothing in return besides my happiness." So, yes, you probably should be skeptical of him trying to walk back what he said. He probably meant it the first time, although it doesn't sound like he himself fully knows what he meant. But you should probably also listen to the people in this thread who are saying that he's not trying to threaten or harm you.

At the same time, though, he needs to be willing to give something in return, especially if he's having trouble expressing himself in language that isn't (superficially) threatening. The way that I would frame it is this: maybe one day you'll allow him to have his way with you, but first the two of you need to get comfortable with each other in that context. (Presumably this is what happened with "normal" sex, too, right? I mean, did you two skip straight to anal or reverse cowgirl or whatever, or did you start by making out and then work your way up?) The goal is to get him to understand the way you're feeling without saying, in effect, "No, actually, I don't love or value you enough to do those things just for you, I need something in return."

Paradoxically, from his perspective, asking for things to be equal and for him to participate with you probably makes the idea seem less intimate, and so it's important to emphasize that you want to continue building intimacy even if you want to move more slowly than he does. And, again, he should have enough patience and trust to honor that request - at least, if he's planning on having a relationship that lasts long enough for this whole process to play out. (If not, that's a whole different conversation, obviously.) If you can make him feel like he's not being judged (which, probably, means that you'll have to stop actually judging him), that should give him the emotional space to compromise. If you try that and he still insists on it being all-or-nothing, then you've got a real problem.

I say all of this, incidentally, from similar personal experience. I'm a feminist myself, and I don't run away from labels like "social justice warrior" - but, nevertheless, I'm drawn to "humiliating" WAM some of the time. The first time I told my girlfriend (now wife) about this whole thing, she didn't seem willing to try it at all. Then, months later, she said that she would be willing to try - but, again, only if she wasn't the only one getting messy. (I think the phrase she used was that she didn't want to become a spectacle.) That wasn't my ideal at the time, and in fact our first time getting messy together wasn't incredibly satisfying (to either of us, I think). But I have to credit my wife for sticking with it, because slowly we figured out what worked for us and now we both have a good time. And even though we still both get messy, I don't feel a strong need to push for a more "dominating" arrangement, both because (a) I've seen that she's getting more and more into it and may decide that she's ready on her own one day and (b) we've arrived at a different but just about equally satisfying sexual/emotional dynamic.

Anyway, again, I could be wrong about your specific situation. Everything that I'm hearing is secondhand and the information would be imperfect anyway. So, at best, I'm guessing. But I think that it's an educated guess and one that should work out.

I truly appreciate the responses and hope they keep coming. Most are very kind and explanatory. I do not want to believe that the way people act during sex is a reflection of who they are as people, and I do not necessarily believe that entirely, but I have a fear that might be true. And I cannot control this fear any more than any of you or my boyfriend can control your fetishes.

For those wondering, I have never read "Fifty Shades of Grey," nor seen the film, nor do I have any more than a topical understanding of what it is about. My sensitivity regarding fetishes comes from a very personal place.

As an Asian woman, I am fetishized on a regular basis, by the media, by strangers, and in the past, by lovers. This is something that has been very hurtful. It makes me feel as if I am not being appreciated as a whole person, but rather as simply a member of a particular race, defined by my phenotype. While some may find this kind of sexual objectification to be attractive, I take huge issue with it, for I find that it not only affects how women are perceived during sex, but pervades all aspects of life.

The humiliation/domination/submission part of my boyfriend's fetish hits home particularly hard because as an Asian woman, I have had many lovers who expect that I will be submissive, and I have seen personally how this expectation extends beyond the bedroom and into "real life."

While I understand that not everyone allows their sexual life and desires to permeate other parts of life, I personally find it difficult to do so and have had many experiences with lovers who also did not hold such a strong distinction between the two.

And to those speculations that I have no kinks/have not explored sexually/etc:

During sex, I have found being submissive to be arousing and sexually enjoyable. But I do not pursue these acts because I do fear that by allowing myself to be submissive sexually, I am falling into the indoctrination done by society that women are to submit to their male partners, and vice versa.

Perhaps I would feel differently if I saw an even split between men/women and dom/sub. But in my own research and experience, 90% of the time, men want to dominate, and women want to be submissive. I do not believe these differences are due to a biological difference in sexuality, but due to the different ways men and women have been conditioned to treat power.

My experience couldn't be more opposite - though this is solely of wam so I hope this can give you a different perspective I 'do' wam sessions as a living, have enjoyed way over 1000 of them now and a good 80% have requested me to be dominant in some form or other, some mildly, some more extreme. Around 2% have had me be the submissive one, and the rest were neutral/equal

Forgive me, since I am young and inexperienced (20 years old.) But have you all who enjoy the power imbalance or "humiliation" aspect of sex and wam specifically always felt that sex and reality are so separate, with zero doubts?

If not, what led you to get to that point and how can I also get to this understanding?

Well, not to be repetitive, but I would say that they become separate over time and through communication, experimentation, and so on. So, for instance, you're probably going to have to tell your boyfriend about your concerns regarding your ethnicity (which, for the record, sound entirely reasonable, at least so far as I can tell). And he's going to have to listen. And then the two of you are going to have to come up with some kind of boundaries or signs that you can use to ensure that everything is kept in its proper place.

It'll help if you can give him specific examples of things that your previous partners have done or said (or, for that matter, specific examples of things that he's done or said, if there is anything). Or even if you can just identify some examples in your own head, you can say to him something like, "It would make me feel more comfortable if you did X, and I know that X isn't sexual and it may seem unrelated, but it would help me to feel like we're on an even footing."

I mean, you have told him about this stuff, right? The previous partners and the Asian thing and all of that?

I agree for most people, but some of us wammers have no connection to humiliation, loss of power, etc. We enjoy the tactile sensation of it, and that is the full extent of it. No pies in the face for us, or buckets of anything tipped over the head. For us, it's the slippery or slimy or oozy sensation, and the visuals too. We watch one another, touch one another, etc. and it's an equal pleasure, with absolutely no humiliation involved. But we are a minority.

Most wammers I've read about do have some connection to playing out humiliating the one they love. It is a turn-on. That's where pies in the face come in, which is not something that interests me at all. (unless the pie goo drips down over skin and illustrates the sensation of how it might feel on the body)

Communication is wonderful, and if you take this as a game, and not as real life, you shouldn't feel hurt by it. He is PLAYING the role of someone being humiliating to you, but in real life, I also would guess that he treats you well. If so, why not let him play? He will likely appreciate you and respect you more as a result.

If my lady were to do something for me that she might not otherwise wish to, I would be so appreciative, so thankful, that once playtime is over, she would know without a shadow of a doubt that I respect her and treat her as my equal. I suppose though, some guys might not be so thankful, and tend to take things for granted, becoming the more powerful partner and demanding more. Their loss. To me, power means I can sweep my woman off her feet and make her submissive because she responds to my love and how I treat her. She will have trust enough to lay down at my feet, (not literally) knowing I would never step on her. She's exhibiting trust, and I'm exhibiting appreciation and kindness. It's equal. There is no power play.

i think it would be smart to discuss your concerns with him about the asian fetish issues. as a asian male and i would also consider my self a feminist, your concerns are very valid, and unfortunately are a reality. But that does not mean he buys into that, and if he did that would be a whole another issue that you would need to consider. i have only wamed with asian women whether it was a gf or a friend with benefits, and they all seemed to enjoy the mess at least in the time of waming and sex. I have only had one friend with benefits say she didn't like it so we just continued to have sex as we both respected each others needs.
I would say perhaps the women i wamed with did not fully enjoy getting messy, some liked it as much as i did, but maybe it was different as we were both asian and they were not as concerned with the fetish aspect.
i have been in the down side of having a gay male lick my face and grab my crotch as i assume he was a rice queen and only wanted asian men, so i understand why one would not want to be the lesser just because of their race.
i know asian men are typically viewed by non asian women as less from the opposite end of the asian stereotypes, and this is unfortunate. i hope that this relationship works out for you, and i think communication with your partner is best.

I am a female mud fetishist whose primary urge centers around mud deep enough to play the role of quicksand. My WAM activity, with or without a partner, has been done in outdoor locations where the guck is deeper than our heads.

This is enough to send a lot of regular guys running off to the hills, screaming. And yet is is true that I am pretty non-threatening outside of this fetish.


In my opinion, your boy friend did not display much insight or intelligence here.

He should have snapped up the opportunity to do this your way. In his shoes, I would said to myself, "It's a YES!" and have gotten that little toe into the arena immediately. I would have baptized you with my WAM substances in any way you found acceptable, done everything in my power to give you the time of your life, and hoped that in time your inner messy soul would emerge and you would eventually get on your knees to beg, "Gunge me!"

The fact that he insisted on doing it all his way right away does say something about him and it isn't terribly positive.

Like you, I simply do not tolerate dominant men very well. My most successful outings were with partners who treated me as equals, even though the quicksand fantasy is absolutely riddled with dominant-submissive undertones.

As a fetishist, I have come to realize that our sexual selves can be totally, completely irrational and stubbornly resistant to change. What is your favorite food? You want to eat a lot of it, don't you? What food do you hate? It would be impossible to teach yourself to love it -- right?

So is this a food so bad you want to puke -- or you just dislike it somewhat?

Do you think that over time you will be able to adjust to what he wants, and if so, is the non-fetish part of him worth the effort? Yep, how is this relationship -- otherwise?

If the whole relationship isn't worth trying to do this, then I guess it's over.

But if this is otherwise a good relationship, and you totally want him in your life, then give this WAM thing an honest go for awhile. Perhaps after a few sessions, it will turn out to feel different from what you originally expected. Perhaps you'll change your mind about how you feel.

And finally:

If it doesn't get better after a reasonable amount of time (the length of which is decided by you and you only), acknowledge this, and set him free.

Nessie

This is a really great thread and I think others have offered some stellar advice and insights here.

I'm a woman and also an Asian woman. I'm sexually submissive and I have a WAM fetish (which is not entirely related to being submissive, I enjoy the feeling of being messy in and of itself as well).

What I can tell you about WAM itself is that it's very harmless as fetishes go and I think there's actually a pretty good chance you may find yourself enjoy the sensation of having something poured onto your skin or over your sensitive parts. I certainly, certainly do.

As far as the submissive element, as others have said, it's a role playing dynamic. While there are men who treat women poorly in the bedroom and ALSO do so in "real life", that has very rarely been my experience. If your man treats you right and respects you in every other aspect of your life, no reason for you to become suspicious now.

I highly enjoy being dominated in the bedroom, but I would NEVER let a man tell me what to do in my personal or professional life. I'm actually quite assertive and wouldn't think twice about putting a man in his place for saying something inappropriate to me. That goes for ethnicity as well. I can relate to what you are saying about men fetishizing Asian women and expecting them to have a certain submissive personality. But living your life trying to avoid being a stereotype only serves to hurt and inhibit you. I think letting men (or really people in general) know when they cross a line or are being disrespectful is far more helpful in generating change. It's often been my experience that people aren't willfully being offensive, they just don't know better and no one's told them so.

Which is all to say, it's wonderful that your boyfriend has been open and honest with you about something that's clearly very difficult for him to talk to you about, and you should be just as open and honest about how that makes you feel. If you are not comfortable, by all means, say so. Putting it all out there is the only way to start resolving things and understanding each other.

Every relationship is about trust and respect. Even when I am completely submitting to a man in the bedroom, I always feel in control of the situation. I know I could stop at any time I feel uncomfortable because I know that my partner doesn't genuinely want to harm me. Just because you are playing the role of a submissive does not mean you actually have to be one.

This is where I really agree with Nessie that your man misstepped. Particularly as you are embarking into something you are unsure and not entirely comfortable with, your partner should be totally respectful of your reservations and there accommodating you every step of the way. I think he probably just got a little too excited in trying to control the situation by saying you couldn't slime him. I get that he has a certain fantasy of how things could be in an ideal world, but this is your first time and if you are willing to try, he needs to let you get there on your own and not just throw you into the deep end. Maybe the first session you two have has nothing to do with dominance and submission, but just the two of you playing in the mess equally and enjoying the feel on each others bodies. Then you can progress from there as you both feel comfortable, or not. Only you can decide! Express what you want and need to be able to feel OK with what's happening and don't apologize for it. If he truly loves and respects you, it should be a non-issue and a no-brainer for you to be able to set the expectations.

Best of luck to you, love! You are clearly intelligent and thoughtful, and wanting things to work with your man enough that you came here trying to better understand it. So keep your mind open, WAM could really be a fun and mutually enjoyable adventure!! Feel free to message me if you want more lady to lady real talk .

xx,
K

Totally disagree 100%. The fact that he declined your offer doesn't say anything negative about him. Let's say the fetish was he wanted you to dress like Little Bow Peep and you were to reply "only if you do". I think most people would decline that offer. The offer you made him substantially negated the Dom/Sub role play your BF is interested in. It doesn't say anything negative about you to have a fantasy and want to live it out the way you fantasize it. Like I said earlier, what I think would be "fair" is for you to explain your fantasy and ask if he will participate before agreeing to his.

The other route is offering to "slime him" in a separate session. That will preserve his fantasy in full and you will still get to slime him back. HOWEVER if this is not erotic to you he will take this as a punitive measure, done out of spite or revenge, not fetish fun. With neither of you aroused and him dripping with your spite I can't imagine how awkward the cleanup and rest of the relationship are going to be. I can't imagine a happy outcome to that scenario. You'd probably be better off declining to participate for a healthy relationship.

Lastly, has he demonstrated signs of abuse? I think believing fetish role play will lead to abusive behavior is misplaced fear. I've never heard of that and someone who is going to be abusive is going to be abusive regardless of what goes on in the bedroom. Worst case scenario if he became abusive, can't you leave?

I personally enjoy the control element and wouldn't want to get messy as well during a session. My partner has always been amazing and has gotten messy for me quite a bit, despite not being in to the fetish.
She always said what she got out of it was my reaction afterwards. How appreciative and loving I was to her for fulfilling my fantasies. I guess you can't know how the situation plays out for you though unless you go through it. Let's face it, if it goes badly and your relationship isn't strong enough to handle a knock like that yet, it may do some damage to the relationship.
To me, as someone who wants to enjoy gunging someone else, I always wanted her to make sure I knew she wasn't really hating it, even if I was in the mood to see her really squirm and pout for a session, I always wanted the odd cheeky clue that she was secretly still happy under all the mess.
Maybe try asking him about how he wants you to react when you get gunged and see what you take away from that? Does he want you defiant, pouty, pretending to be upset or just being yourself, the way you would normally react? Asking that question might help you understand a little bit more of what he gets off on.

I highly recommend reading the book Perv by Jesse Bering that was published by Scientific American: http://www.amazon.com/Perv-Sexual-Deviant-All-Us/dp/0374534837?ie=UTF8&keywords=perv&qid=1464425951&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2

What led me to having zero doubts that sex fantasies and reality are not connected? - that would be my own experience, as previously explained. It comes from knowing myself and my own mind. I know without any shadow of doubt it's true for me, and humans, diverse creatures though we are, some things remain very similar, like that.

Plus... it just makes sense

Not really related to this thread but as an added example it's also why I don't mind any partner of mine looking at porn or shooting video/pics of hot models. With porn I just wanna quickly get my rocks off and get back to going about my life. My choice of viewing has no effect on how I feel about my partner or how attractive I find them and I believe there's no reason why that shouldn't be the same for a male.

With shooting vids/pics of models as a bisexual woman I find the models attractive and it's a pleasant experience, I admire their beauty and form but I wouldn't try to hit on them or have sex with them and again I don't see why this would be any different for a male partner. So yeah, I'm cool with it.

How can you arrive at the same conclusion with no doubt? Just listen to the voices of experience in this thread really, I suppose. My views on things didn't happen overnight though, things take a while to sink in sometimes

many good points here and observations, examples...I would add that there was study not too long ago regarding sexual openness (willing to explore, try new things, indulge your partner fantasies) and one's political leanings...interestingly, women who were more "feminist" in their politics were BETTER lovers (in terms of the criteria mentioned)....point being: one can be a feminist AND submissive (in bed/sex) without there being any conflict or deep contradiction: what we like sexually does not mean that we carry that into our normal social/political life and values...sure, there are probably a small percentage that do, but not the majority who can and do separate fantasy from reality.

Well, he did get up the nerve to ask. Many people never get that far, so that part is positive.

What, in my opinion, him turning down her counter-offer says about him is that he had trouble compromising and that he did not wish to wait for satisfaction.

And the compromise, and the wait, might have been soooo worth it!

Nessie

He does want to humiliate you.

It's bringing a fantasy to life. It's play.

As long as the rest of the relationship is healthy and respectful... it's play.

Any good wammer should be open to being slimed back in return, it shouldn't just be a one-way thing. You smartly presented him an opportunity to engage in his fetish with you and he rejected it because he wasn't prepared to get messy himself... I think that's a shame and v short-sighted of him, most of the wammers I know (straight or gay) are prepared to join in the activity and get messy themselves, even if their primary turn-on is messing up others.

Regarding the humiliation aspect, the whole setup should be in a playful context where boundaries are respected, both partners are able to laugh about it and there's a lot of communication.

Power play and power imbalances are a core reason why people are aroused by fetishes, but they should be playful and flexible. As I see it, your boyfriend should be open to you upending the power balance by sliming him back once he's slimed you or whatever. Speaking as a gay man, when I have a session with another guy, it's invariably been the case that we both get messy in turn - he messes me up, then I turn the tables, or vice versa.

So I basically want to echo Alumni's comment: "the 'humiliation' that my lovers have felt is questionable, as there has been a lot of laughter involved on both sides. In fact, I can't get aroused if I sense that my partner isn't into it and fully consenting"

First off, you seem like a very nice and thoughtful gal, and your gentleman companion is lucky to have you. I understand your apprehension entirely. But you also shouldn't let your worries about societal tendencies push you away from what you actually enjoy. There's always the old saying, "Domme in the streets, sub in the sheets". I've met plenty of ladies who subscribed to that description proudly. The way genders seem to line up with the tendencies for these dynamics? Well, that can be caused by a number of things. Maybe some of them are actually inherently physiological. But being submissive in bed doesn't necessarily mean submitting to the guy's will in all things. And even in bed, you still get to say no if you want. Sure, society at large seems to think things "should" be one way doesn't mean if your own personal preferences happen to align with expectations in that regard that you should be ashamed or try to force them down. To do so would be no different than trying to force your preferences into compliance with them. It's okay to be different, and it's okay to be like "the norm" in some respects too. It doesn't make you less of an individual.

As for trying WAM, I can see how it might make you uncomfortable and honestly, if you feel the situation is uncomfortable and don't want to do it, he's just gonna have to accept that. You did offer a compromise of making it reciprocal. The fetish does have a humiliation aspect, I won't deny that. But it's not so much a mean spirited vibe of humiliation than a playful and silly one. I don't have a goddamn clue where it comes from, honestly. One day I saw a commercial with a series of women being pied in the face, felt the stirring down there, and was like "wait...really? THIS turns me on?" I fully understand it's a strange thing because it STILL feels strange even to me. So I don't expect to be indulged, and honestly have never been. I've dated gals who were okay with the idea or even had somewhat of an interest when it came up in conversation, but given that the whole messy thing requires a bit of logistical overhead and my relationships have never really lasted that long, it never materialized. My advice is to not worry about how someone watching you would feel about it, and don't try to Freud your way through the fetish's origins. Think about how you feel about it, and only you. If you're willing to give it a go to make the guy happy, then at least maybe try it and see if it bothers you or not. Maybe you'll even like it. If you feel like you just don't want to do that, that's okay too, and he will have to accept that. Just make sure it's how you legitimately feel and not influenced by societal pressures, or counter-societal pressures for that matter. This is you and him time, you're the only ones who matter in the scenario.