https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12441619/Hotel-guests-fury-served-bikini-clad-woman-covered-chocolate-family-buffet.html

Why were none of us there...

Good thing there were no Americans there to see that...They would ban mention of Sardinia in Art class.

I can get a job in Italy doing that?! Let me pack my bags!

Beware! A guest's 14 year old daughter saw the centerpiece and declared, "this is not a country where women can achieve things."

I'm pretty sure teenagers judge me (and everyone else) whenever I go out so I'm not scared of her!

And what do kids know, anyway? I just know in my heart you could accomplish many REMARKABLE things while covered in chocolate sauce.

Dream job right there

It's the daily Fail...so I'll take "Things that never happened" for $1.

Italy at its best...i'm so proud of my country
It was a hotel public buffet, not a wam shooting.
Context is everything, if i was there probably it wouldn't be a turn on, rather an embarassment.

^^^^ This.

Doing something like that in a fetish club with an all-adult audience and fully consenting models, fine. I once stage-managed an event like that at a Leeds nightclub. But to present it as the buffet at a family hotel with under-18s present? Whoever thought that was a good idea is basically showing they still think of women as primarily sex-objects. Not clever.

Under 18s being present makes it decidedly NOT a turn on for me as well. If not for that, though, this sort of thing would be a public secondhand embarrassment but secret turn-on for me. I'm no exhibitionist myself but am definitely aroused by exhibitionism (again, given no underage people are present).

1. Women can be in bikinis in public without being inherently sexual or sexualized. I've been to the beach and gotten stares from middle aged people judging my pretty normal bikini (never mind there's a dozen other girls in bikinis too).

2. Give the woman some credit. She agreed to it. Now if she was forced or compelled or felt obligated, that's different, but if she was into it, let her be into it. If she wants to present herself this way, give her credit for fully understanding what she's doing and that's she's down for that. Objectification/sexualization is an issue for women but it's really more about when. When I'm at the grocery store in sweatpants, don't pay me mind. But if I choose to be provocative with my outfit, take a peek. But don't be weird about it. It's about consent.

Valid points, but consider, she was hotel staff. How much choice did she really have? Even if not outright blatant coercion, there are lots of passive-aggressive ways that (usually male) management can make clear that non-compliance won't go well for junior staff.

She wasn't just wearing a bikini, she was covered in chocolate sauce as the centerpiece of the buffet. That'd be fine in a fetish club. At a family hotel? Less so, this was a general buffet for families including kids. I've no problem with sexy displays in appropriate settings, this wasn't one though.

Also, not everyone responds to the same stimuli. Personally, I find bikinis about as sexy as watching paint dry. Horrid, skimpy things, no appeal at all. Workout gear on the other hand, that's one of my main clothing fetishies along with women in industrial boilersuits, overalls, and wellies. But I still wouldn't be weird about someone in sweatpants, overalls, or a bikini - their body, their choice. I might steal a glance at the person in the workout gear or the overalls, but a glance, not a stare or being creepy. The only place closely focusing is appropriate is on a shoot with consenting models.

Has there been any scenes produced featuring this concept of preparing food on a naked model and serving it?

The closest thing I could think of off memory is "Cake Messy Party" from Messy German Girls:
https://messy-german-girls.umd.net/download_info/cake-messy-party

You're right that she may have been pressured or done something she absolutely did not want to do. But I think it's a disservice to women to assume that this is the case every time we're put into a situation like this. It turns us into damsels in distress and removes our autonomy by default.

The first time I went to Japan with some friends, we encountered a maid cafe girl in the street trying to get people to come to her establishment. A (male) friend, trying to be a good ally, made a comment about how terrible it must be for her, how she's forced to wear that goofy outfit and all that. I said "What if she's into this?" He hadn't thought of that. It's a different situation for sure because that Japanese girl signed up for that from the start, took a job where she knew she'd be doing things like that. But still, it's important to remember that not every time a girl does something that seemingly pleases the male gaze that she didn't do it because she wanted to or was at least excited about it.

So here, it's hard to say what happened. I want to give the woman the benefit of the doubt until she says otherwise (we won't find out, but...). Really really blatant pressuring women into really out there/inappropriate things are rare these days outside of industries where there's major power bottlenecks. Film/movies is the big one still, even post MeToo, where there's a million desperate girls trying for a few slots and sleezy producers who know this and their power and can ask girls to do anything they want as a result. I've been subjected to my share of inappropriate comments and occasionally asks but they're always fairly subtle--the term "microaggression," as much as it's overused, is accurate. For all but a few really unlucky and unfortunate women, commands like "Have sex with me or you're not getting promoted" and "Show me your panties and you get a raise" are quite rare and it's the smaller, barely noticeable comments and actions--wandering eyes with creepy smiles for example--that really cause the issue. Those are common and almost everyday. It's hard not to gaslight ourselves or think "Nah, that couldn't be what happened" and shrug it off and that's what's dangerous.

Here, because walking up to a junior and saying "We want to put you in a bikini covered in chocolate" when it's wholly unwelcome is so blatantly objectifying and sexist, to the point where it would be impossible to stay on that job and not want to cry coming in every day, that I think it the woman had to be in on in some way. At least my delusion to think the world is a good place still makes me think that.


I think the bikini actually makes this a lot more "normal." If she were in a dress on the plate, it would be even weirder for the average person. Putting myself in a normie shoes, if I were to be covered in a substance/get wet, being in a swimsuit would be the outfit that would be the most natural for that. And while I mentioned getting glares and stares for being in a bikini at a pool/beach from (jealous?) moms, the two-piece swimsuit for women is FINALLY almost normalized in society so "bikini = sexy" is no longer most people's thoughts. Most. Trust me, there's a few who get bent out of shape about it, but mostly this seems to be how you look

Yes, set and setting are key (wrong setting here; families were present)...poor judgement on the part of management.

That aside, this is just a PG version of the 'naked sushi model' fad from back in the early '00s (which I'm sure derives from some avant garde film form the 1960's).

BTW, my favorite wam model Tamara Z had as a gig once (she made a point of mentioning it during her interview for Splat!TV).

I certainly don't want to take away women's agency, I'm a lifelong feminist and have several sex worker friends, as well as being a WAM producer, I'm all in favour of informed and consensual sexual performance in appropriate settings.


I'm afraid my worldview is a lot darker than that, "do this or else" is very easily silently coded into things, especially where there is a power imballance. Look at what's happened with the "kiss" issue around the football world cup - even though there is 4k video evidence of what happened, and the player concerned has clearly stated she did not consent, powerful men are ganging up and trying to gaslight their way out of the situation.



Wasn't the whole point of the bikini to show as much flesh as possible, entirely for the benefit of male (and unwittingly from those who created it, gay female) gaze? The kind of catsuit-swimsuits they wear in the Olympics prove that there's no performance advantage from being almost naked, quite the opposite. Of course in a decent society anyone should be free to dress as they like, all the way from almost nude to wrapped up in a sack, as long as it's consensual and not forced, anything should be OK. And if you enjoy wearing bikinis at the beach, all power to you, and you shouldn't be getting either harassment or jealousy for doing so.

Yeah, these are the situations that are most dangerous for women. When there's a very small amount of opportunities for a "dream job" and a bunch of people who want that. Movies, high end modeling gigs, competitive sports, all those are where girls get abused the most because there's always someone who will do anything for that job and the people in power know it.


I mean, yes, but that doesn't mean that can't empower women or that it hasn't been reclaimed in some sense. When I do makeup and dress a bit sexier than usual, it's not usually because I'm trying to get attention from a man. Or men in general. It's more like...the fact that people will notice me (and most are polite enough not to say anything) and think things. Or I just know that I'm commanding someone's attention at that moment. That feels powerful. I don't need someone to give that attention to me in actuality. Knowing that it's being done silently, that I'm commanding my sexuality and femininity at that moment, that makes me feel good.

Sometimes it's about adding a really feminine flare to a masculine activity. It depends. But it feels extra good sometimes to do something "masculine," like play a sport, and be super girly doing it. Not everyone agrees with that (and I feel like GenZ hates femininity or thinks it's bad or thinks you have to look like a guy to do "male things" and girls who look like girls can't do it), but for me at least, that's how I feel a lot of the time.

Historical note: the bikini, and the mini skirt, were both products of and expressions of the sexual and women's liberation movements (which over-lapped in the '60s to early '70s). They were both overt expressions of sexual freedom and feminine empowerment (control over one's body).

Many guys didn't get the point back then; many still don't.

wmjm
[killing forum threads since 2004]