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"WAM models do not have families"
Love you, too
Jessiemessy-jessie.com said: If I had seen this thread a year ago when I was ill it would have really upset me.
Models being talked about as non humans yet again by some individual who's sole interest here is having an orgasm.
I would have felt demaned.
However now I don't feel that way.
I feel much stronger these days and realise I have the power to do whatever I want regarding this business.
It's MY decision what I do now,and I now have more customers than ever before,who pay a fairer price for my work than before and all the losers with a 'Sense of Entitlement' I used to pander to I am now happy to not do business with them.
Without having any formal business training or communication skills I have 'gushed about my problems in the past.'
I only did this as a way of trying to explain why my business on here wasn't as good as it could be.
Then when I nearly died Mike tried to explain what was going on with me just out of politeness and so people knew.
Some fuckwits held that against him,had their own agenda's and ultimately made fools of themselves.
I learnt from Mike though,I was upset at first they did that to him whereas it amused him and he pointed out that my life,which has become 'our lives' has ZERO to do with the personal lives of any of the loser types within the world of fetish.
So we just got rid of dealing with any idiots and focused on the great customers and there are LOADS of great customers.
There are LOADS of great characters on UMD too and LOADS of great models too who are not only beautiful,often with their own style but they are also supportive friends of mine.
So I'm just going to continue to be me,the new improved me that is going to only do the work I want to,have fun with WAM as it suits me and join in the fun conversations,the comedy conversations and keep my business going as long as it's financially viable versus my vaulable time.
I'm here for me these days,nobody else and I'll stay on UMD until there is no reason to stay.
Jessie x
Models being talked about as non humans yet again by some individual who's sole interest here is having an orgasm.
I would have felt demaned.
However now I don't feel that way.
I feel much stronger these days and realise I have the power to do whatever I want regarding this business.
It's MY decision what I do now,and I now have more customers than ever before,who pay a fairer price for my work than before and all the losers with a 'Sense of Entitlement' I used to pander to I am now happy to not do business with them.
Without having any formal business training or communication skills I have 'gushed about my problems in the past.'
I only did this as a way of trying to explain why my business on here wasn't as good as it could be.
Then when I nearly died Mike tried to explain what was going on with me just out of politeness and so people knew.
Some fuckwits held that against him,had their own agenda's and ultimately made fools of themselves.
I learnt from Mike though,I was upset at first they did that to him whereas it amused him and he pointed out that my life,which has become 'our lives' has ZERO to do with the personal lives of any of the loser types within the world of fetish.
So we just got rid of dealing with any idiots and focused on the great customers and there are LOADS of great customers.
There are LOADS of great characters on UMD too and LOADS of great models too who are not only beautiful,often with their own style but they are also supportive friends of mine.
So I'm just going to continue to be me,the new improved me that is going to only do the work I want to,have fun with WAM as it suits me and join in the fun conversations,the comedy conversations and keep my business going as long as it's financially viable versus my vaulable time.
I'm here for me these days,nobody else and I'll stay on UMD until there is no reason to stay.
Jessie x
I didn't see anything wrong with you or Mike posting updates on your health since it did directly affect your ability to shoot and people were concerned when you disappeared. I think there are appropriate ways to discuss personal problems and inappropriate ways and I didn't see any of your posts as inappropriate. It's the people who constantly make up one sob story after another then beg for money that I find inappropriate and off-putting.
Or the people who complain about how hard it is to make videos and live their life. We all have lives outside of making wam videos, if someone can't handle both then find a way to balance things in your life instead of bitching about it.
There was nothing "sexist" about Bozo's revelation/confession about how he imagines wam models (in an erotic situation)...sexism is the belief that one sex is superior or inferior to another....IMO, what underlies much of this discussion is the fact that we were all (for the most part) raised in sexually repressed cultures (especially in regards to a woman's sexuality)...much of what feminism is about (despite the demonizing claims of the extreme right wing) is a woman reclaiming her own sexuality (for herself, as she defines it) regardless of what traditional (dominant) make culture says or thinks...after all, a person is not truly "free" unless they can express their sexuality freely, without fear of retaliation of social stigmatizing (something that still exists in the form of "slut shaming", as if the promiscuous males that enable this "behavior" are not equally sluts: double standard)...
That said, the presentation of erotic situations or acts on any media (and even in person) necessarily means that the person is objectified (to some degree)...note that there is virtually no wam video that begins with a personal biography (including family members) of the model or models involved....it is not important to the nature of the medium....
then there's "pure" objectification in the form of erotic animation(s)...where the "model" is a complete creation of the artist and is subject to whatever acts the creator can imagine (and render through his/her art)
.
Bozo was just being honest about the basic/inherent psychology of watching an erotic video...we all do it.
That said, the presentation of erotic situations or acts on any media (and even in person) necessarily means that the person is objectified (to some degree)...note that there is virtually no wam video that begins with a personal biography (including family members) of the model or models involved....it is not important to the nature of the medium....
then there's "pure" objectification in the form of erotic animation(s)...where the "model" is a complete creation of the artist and is subject to whatever acts the creator can imagine (and render through his/her art)
.
Bozo was just being honest about the basic/inherent psychology of watching an erotic video...we all do it.
'Our Favorite (Pie) Hits' now available!
messyhot said: I think part of the reason my WAM shoots don't appeal to everybody, is, besides the fact that most of my models have tattoos, piercings, and wildly colored hair, is a lot of our shoots are about exploring texture and color, and a lot of my models are fairly feminist and look at it as a sort of empowerment and celebration of beauty and creativity than as humiliation, which seems to be a running theme in a lot of WAM productions.
Interesting! I like the hair, tattoos, piercings, personality and feminist viewpoints of your models. Why I haven't bought yet is that you tend to favor very thin models, which isn't primarily my taste. And, of course, there could be more face coverage early on.
This isn't a general criticism; I'm just saying different strokes for different folks, and it might not be for the reasons you assume here.
wamajama said: There was nothing "sexist" about Bozo's revelation/confession about how he imagines wam models (in an erotic situation)...sexism is the belief that one sex is superior or inferior to another....IMO, what underlies much of this discussion is the fact that we were all (for the most part) raised in sexually repressed cultures (especially in regards to a woman's sexuality)...much of what feminism is about (despite the demonizing claims of the extreme right wing) is a woman reclaiming her own sexuality (for herself, as she defines it) regardless of what traditional (dominant) make culture says or thinks...after all, a person is not truly "free" unless they can express their sexuality freely, without fear of retaliation of social stigmatizing (something that still exists in the form of "slut shaming", as if the promiscuous males that enable this "behavior" are not equally sluts: double standard)...
That said, the presentation of erotic situations or acts on any media (and even in person) necessarily means that the person is objectified (to some degree)...note that there is virtually no wam video that begins with a personal biography (including family members) of the model or models involved....it is not important to the nature of the medium....
then there's "pure" objectification in the form of erotic animation(s)...where the "model" is a complete creation of the artist and is subject to whatever acts the creator can imagine (and render through his/her art)
.
Bozo was just being honest about the basic/inherent psychology of watching an erotic video...we all do it.
That said, the presentation of erotic situations or acts on any media (and even in person) necessarily means that the person is objectified (to some degree)...note that there is virtually no wam video that begins with a personal biography (including family members) of the model or models involved....it is not important to the nature of the medium....
then there's "pure" objectification in the form of erotic animation(s)...where the "model" is a complete creation of the artist and is subject to whatever acts the creator can imagine (and render through his/her art)
.
Bozo was just being honest about the basic/inherent psychology of watching an erotic video...we all do it.
I agree with this for sure. I'm not upset with Bozo, it's just that this thread opens up the discussion that's been an ongoing problem on umd for many of the women. To explain it in relation to a plot or storyline is one thing, the problem is when guys tell us things like the fact we are real people not just characters is a "turn off" and other baloney is where things take an ugly turn. For those of us who are active members in the community anyway. It's all a really interesting topic and an important discussion... I think anyway. Ha
wamajama said:
then there's "pure" objectification in the form of erotic animation(s)...where the "model" is a complete creation of the artist and is subject to whatever acts the creator can imagine (and render through his/her art)
then there's "pure" objectification in the form of erotic animation(s)...where the "model" is a complete creation of the artist and is subject to whatever acts the creator can imagine (and render through his/her art)
I think that's backward. It's not objectification of a person, it's taking objects (the medium: paint, clay, stone, animation cells, pixels) and turning them into a semblance of humanity. It didn't start with a person that becomes an object (e.g. photography), but starts with an object, and creates a fictional person. It is no different from how authors build people with words.
How can you objectify someone who doesn't exist?
im out on this one......lol..... 
i cant handle yall and your need to make forum posts that are obviously gonna piss some ppl off. thats just ridiculous. we are here to have fun.
i am personally here to get messy, get obliterated messy, fuck myself messy, get some of my awesome clothes wet and fuck myself then too....
and see other people do it....
i cant handle yall and your need to make forum posts that are obviously gonna piss some ppl off. thats just ridiculous. we are here to have fun. i am personally here to get messy, get obliterated messy, fuck myself messy, get some of my awesome clothes wet and fuck myself then too....
and see other people do it....
There isn’t a mess I don’t love!
LeilaHazlett said:
I didn't see anything wrong with you or Mike posting updates on your health since it did directly affect your ability to shoot and people were concerned when you disappeared. I think there are appropriate ways to discuss personal problems and inappropriate ways and I didn't see any of your posts as inappropriate. It's the people who constantly make up one sob story after another then beg for money that I find inappropriate and off-putting.
Or the people who complain about how hard it is to make videos and live their life. We all have lives outside of making wam videos, if someone can't handle both then find a way to balance things in your life instead of bitching about it.
Jessiemessy-jessie.com said: If I had seen this thread a year ago when I was ill it would have really upset me.
Models being talked about as non humans yet again by some individual who's sole interest here is having an orgasm.
I would have felt demaned.
However now I don't feel that way.
I feel much stronger these days and realise I have the power to do whatever I want regarding this business.
It's MY decision what I do now,and I now have more customers than ever before,who pay a fairer price for my work than before and all the losers with a 'Sense of Entitlement' I used to pander to I am now happy to not do business with them.
Without having any formal business training or communication skills I have 'gushed about my problems in the past.'
I only did this as a way of trying to explain why my business on here wasn't as good as it could be.
Then when I nearly died Mike tried to explain what was going on with me just out of politeness and so people knew.
Some fuckwits held that against him,had their own agenda's and ultimately made fools of themselves.
I learnt from Mike though,I was upset at first they did that to him whereas it amused him and he pointed out that my life,which has become 'our lives' has ZERO to do with the personal lives of any of the loser types within the world of fetish.
So we just got rid of dealing with any idiots and focused on the great customers and there are LOADS of great customers.
There are LOADS of great characters on UMD too and LOADS of great models too who are not only beautiful,often with their own style but they are also supportive friends of mine.
So I'm just going to continue to be me,the new improved me that is going to only do the work I want to,have fun with WAM as it suits me and join in the fun conversations,the comedy conversations and keep my business going as long as it's financially viable versus my vaulable time.
I'm here for me these days,nobody else and I'll stay on UMD until there is no reason to stay.
Jessie x
Models being talked about as non humans yet again by some individual who's sole interest here is having an orgasm.
I would have felt demaned.
However now I don't feel that way.
I feel much stronger these days and realise I have the power to do whatever I want regarding this business.
It's MY decision what I do now,and I now have more customers than ever before,who pay a fairer price for my work than before and all the losers with a 'Sense of Entitlement' I used to pander to I am now happy to not do business with them.
Without having any formal business training or communication skills I have 'gushed about my problems in the past.'
I only did this as a way of trying to explain why my business on here wasn't as good as it could be.
Then when I nearly died Mike tried to explain what was going on with me just out of politeness and so people knew.
Some fuckwits held that against him,had their own agenda's and ultimately made fools of themselves.
I learnt from Mike though,I was upset at first they did that to him whereas it amused him and he pointed out that my life,which has become 'our lives' has ZERO to do with the personal lives of any of the loser types within the world of fetish.
So we just got rid of dealing with any idiots and focused on the great customers and there are LOADS of great customers.
There are LOADS of great characters on UMD too and LOADS of great models too who are not only beautiful,often with their own style but they are also supportive friends of mine.
So I'm just going to continue to be me,the new improved me that is going to only do the work I want to,have fun with WAM as it suits me and join in the fun conversations,the comedy conversations and keep my business going as long as it's financially viable versus my vaulable time.
I'm here for me these days,nobody else and I'll stay on UMD until there is no reason to stay.
Jessie x
I didn't see anything wrong with you or Mike posting updates on your health since it did directly affect your ability to shoot and people were concerned when you disappeared. I think there are appropriate ways to discuss personal problems and inappropriate ways and I didn't see any of your posts as inappropriate. It's the people who constantly make up one sob story after another then beg for money that I find inappropriate and off-putting.
Or the people who complain about how hard it is to make videos and live their life. We all have lives outside of making wam videos, if someone can't handle both then find a way to balance things in your life instead of bitching about it.
hence, why i put up "business hours" for my "business"
There isn’t a mess I don’t love!
messyhot said: I think part of the reason my WAM shoots don't appeal to everybody, is, besides the fact that most of my models have tattoos, piercings, and wildly colored hair, is a lot of our shoots are about exploring texture and color, and a lot of my models are fairly feminist and look at it as a sort of empowerment and celebration of beauty and creativity than as humiliation, which seems to be a running theme in a lot of WAM productions.
I personally love your work. If I could afford to, I'd buy a lot more than what I have. I love the color in your work - for some reason, high contrast in color of WAM substances really appeals to me and your work really pops in that respect. The fact that so many of your models have bright neon hair colors really goes well with that too.
This had been touched (!) upon earlier without resolution. I had posted various bits of WAM materials from Miley Cyrus. Long story short, there are more negative comments per Miley than any other celebrity, for whatever reason. The crux was that that a poster was commenting on how she was degrading herself in the way she presents herself to the world. My reply was how that was different in what she does versus any of the models involved in WAM? The ludicrous reply was that it was not to the entire world, as if that ever made a difference. Incredible double standards.
Masher said: This had been touched (!) upon earlier without resolution. I had posted various bits of WAM materials from Miley Cyrus. Long story short, there are more negative comments per Miley than any other celebrity, for whatever reason. The crux was that that a poster was commenting on how she was degrading herself in the way she presents herself to the world. My reply was how that was different in what she does versus any of the models involved in WAM? The ludicrous reply was that it was not to the entire world, as if that ever made a difference. Incredible double standards.
I don't even know why I'm going to humor this gibberish with a response, but here goes nothing...
The original thread that Masher is referring to is this one:
https://umd.net/forums/miley_cyrus_wam_interlude
In that thread, Norman provides a perfectly good answer to the question of why Miley Cyrus and a WAM Model are treated differently, even though both have appeared in videos that involve mess in some form. I suggest reading it.
What it boils down to is that a WAM Model is portraying a less-than-wholesome character in a video. What we judge in that situation is the character she is portraying and not the woman herself.
In the case of Miley, people don't judge her based on the character she's portraying in the video; they judge her based on the ridiculous personality that she shows to the world through the rest of her actions in public. In fact, that public persona permeates everything she makes now, so it's almost inseparable from the character she plays in any sort of video.
wamajama said: There was nothing "sexist" about Bozo's revelation/confession about how he imagines wam models (in an erotic situation)...
Maybe it's not sexist but it does reveal a larger issue that sex workers have to deal with which is dehumanization. I worked as a stripper in college because I preferred to make my own money than take handouts from my parents. I got to know a lot of strippers and most were very nice women who were in college like myself or working to help support their families or just looking to make a lot of money without having to go into debt by going to college.
But being a college student I would often hear a lot of negativity about strippers and other sex workers. Guys thought it was funny to joke that killing a stripper isn't a crime cause they have no families so no one would even notice they were gone. There is a lot of violence committed against sex workers because men do not want to see them as people. Sexual harassment is very common, I get disgusting messages and photos sent to me and guys justify it saying "if you didn't want this you shouldn't do porn". That's like saying it's ok to shoot police officers because they that's part of their job. Yes it is a risk you know about when you take that job but it doesn't make it ok for people to do that.
Obviously while jerking off to a video you're probably not going to be thinking "I wonder who this girl's mother is" because that is just creepy. There is nothing wrong with that but thinking of sex workers as less than human is fucked up.
Leila: I agree with/understand your point ....I never heard that "joke" about strippers (when I was in college), but I accept that it was repeated by the usual (insensitive) college male jerks....for some reason, strippers are associated with "prostitutes" in many male minds (perhaps because the occupation falls under the rubric of "sex industry" even though the stripper is not offering sex)...most every stripper I ever met had at least one child at home that she was supporting (and believe me, if you've got a hungry kid at home, you do what it takes to support him/her -- within the bounds of your morality/ethics and/or comfort zone)...
...The 'dehumanizing' and/or objectifying (are they the same things?) tendency of males may have to do with how their brains are wired (probably not fixable, entirely)....a young boy just becoming aware of his sexual response tends to become fixated on the pleasure of the stimulation and release, and thus, on whatever thoughts (images) got him to that point in the past (why so much masturbatory material i s so repetitive)...it is a good recipe for so-called 'objectification'...think pin-up posters...pure objectification, hanging on the wall of nearly every young teenage boy...commercially reinforced (big business)...and then we expect these kids to grow up, have a "normal" relationship, and NEVER objectify a female again, ever....a bit unrealistic, to say the least...but most males do grow up and do recognize that women (even sexually attractive women) are people too...
Unfortunately, not all do (arrested development), and many of these end up as sexist/insulting trolls on the interwebs.
...The 'dehumanizing' and/or objectifying (are they the same things?) tendency of males may have to do with how their brains are wired (probably not fixable, entirely)....a young boy just becoming aware of his sexual response tends to become fixated on the pleasure of the stimulation and release, and thus, on whatever thoughts (images) got him to that point in the past (why so much masturbatory material i s so repetitive)...it is a good recipe for so-called 'objectification'...think pin-up posters...pure objectification, hanging on the wall of nearly every young teenage boy...commercially reinforced (big business)...and then we expect these kids to grow up, have a "normal" relationship, and NEVER objectify a female again, ever....a bit unrealistic, to say the least...but most males do grow up and do recognize that women (even sexually attractive women) are people too...
Unfortunately, not all do (arrested development), and many of these end up as sexist/insulting trolls on the interwebs.
'Our Favorite (Pie) Hits' now available!
ABGamma said:
I don't even know why I'm going to humor this gibberish with a response, but here goes nothing...
The original thread that Masher is referring to is this one:
https://umd.net/forums/miley_cyrus_wam_interlude
In that thread, Norman provides a perfectly good answer to the question of why Miley Cyrus and a WAM Model are treated differently, even though both have appeared in videos that involve mess in some form. I suggest reading it.
What it boils down to is that a WAM Model is portraying a less-than-wholesome character in a video. What we judge in that situation is the character she is portraying and not the woman herself.
In the case of Miley, people don't judge her based on the character she's portraying in the video; they judge her based on the ridiculous personality that she shows to the world through the rest of her actions in public. In fact, that public persona permeates everything she makes now, so it's almost inseparable from the character she plays in any sort of video.
Masher said: This had been touched (!) upon earlier without resolution. I had posted various bits of WAM materials from Miley Cyrus. Long story short, there are more negative comments per Miley than any other celebrity, for whatever reason. The crux was that that a poster was commenting on how she was degrading herself in the way she presents herself to the world. My reply was how that was different in what she does versus any of the models involved in WAM? The ludicrous reply was that it was not to the entire world, as if that ever made a difference. Incredible double standards.
I don't even know why I'm going to humor this gibberish with a response, but here goes nothing...
The original thread that Masher is referring to is this one:
https://umd.net/forums/miley_cyrus_wam_interlude
In that thread, Norman provides a perfectly good answer to the question of why Miley Cyrus and a WAM Model are treated differently, even though both have appeared in videos that involve mess in some form. I suggest reading it.
What it boils down to is that a WAM Model is portraying a less-than-wholesome character in a video. What we judge in that situation is the character she is portraying and not the woman herself.
In the case of Miley, people don't judge her based on the character she's portraying in the video; they judge her based on the ridiculous personality that she shows to the world through the rest of her actions in public. In fact, that public persona permeates everything she makes now, so it's almost inseparable from the character she plays in any sort of video.
Some of that is true, but if I recall, the model comment came from a model who said that it bordered on "nothing but a modern minstrel show." You'll note that at the bottom of the discussion, I made the point that essentially the internet was "open" to all comers in most situations. Norman tries to qualify the difference in that Miley's was a world stage to embarrass herself, the WAM models, only in our little "adults only" corner of kink. Again, as if this makes a real difference as far as the argument goes. What Miley does is a show - what the WAM models do is a show. Their exposure, in that the entire world, incluiding minors, gives them the visability afforded to any celebrity. I'm not damining their actions, but for the sake of fairness, please don't disparage any "mainstream" artist who mixes art, WAM, absurdity, et al.
My original post was only to point out that I thought it was disingenuous to comment or disparage any post that included or mentioned WAM with Miley Cyrus was. The postings were attacked and disparaged in a way that I see with no other celebrity whose material is presented. I'm trying to do my part in watching out for WAM content for the UMD, as others do. Most persons on the UMD do not comment if they don't like the type of substances presented; why should the person or celebrity invite any additional comment? Wouldn't it be better to remain silent, or at least, maybe a "Hey, not my thing, but thanks for the post?" That's all.
messyhot said: I think part of the reason my WAM shoots don't appeal to everybody, is, besides the fact that most of my models have tattoos, piercings, and wildly colored hair, is a lot of our shoots are about exploring texture and color, and a lot of my models are fairly feminist and look at it as a sort of empowerment and celebration of beauty and creativity than as humiliation, which seems to be a running theme in a lot of WAM productions.
The only reason that your shoots don't appeal to me is because there isn't at all enough messy hair with your models (that I can see in preview pictures.) The models themselves rock.
Slime...more slime!!!!!
Jason_K416 said: (true stuff snipped) It all comes down to human nature, which is to be primarily a selfish asshole. This is further compounded by any form of difference, sex, race, color, gender, etc. (more true stuff)
NOT unique to humans, but to ALL lifeforms. So, selfishness - or, even more accurately - LIMITED selfLESSness (limiting only to one's nation, one's gender, one's race, one's alma mater, one's species, one's political party or 2^N other categories)
is a property of ALL animals & plants & fungi & bacteria (I hope/think that covers all the kingdoms).
not to drag this thread too far off-topic (and nerd out simultaneously), but "human nature" is NOT inherently selfish...talk to any anthropologist (or read their research papers) and you will find that all primates exhibit high degrees of "pro-social" and cooperative behaviors...in fact, this is how we were able to survive in a world where the rest of the animal kingdom were far more adapted to "tooth and nail" survival situations....even infants as young as 18 months exhibit pro-social traits (in the absence of any modeling by adults) where, for example, the infant helps the adult find something that only the infant knows where it is located...and, slightly older infants will share their toys/ food with someone who doesn't have any...
...human cooperation was key to out success as a species (e.g., hunting large prey) and in those tribes where women found/hunted/gathered large amounts of protein (to the tribe/group) had more rights and status in the group than those where their protein-gathering duties were small...
I think we are (in the US) largely conditioned by our capitalist, dog-eat-dog mentality/culture and so expect everyone to behave purely selfishly...for sure, we do this (under various economic stresses), but game theory research has shown that the majority of people will cooperate with their neighbors (in need), depending upon their mood and the history of interactions with said neighbors (you treated me well/fairly in the past, so I will reciprocate in the present/future, etc.).
...human cooperation was key to out success as a species (e.g., hunting large prey) and in those tribes where women found/hunted/gathered large amounts of protein (to the tribe/group) had more rights and status in the group than those where their protein-gathering duties were small...
I think we are (in the US) largely conditioned by our capitalist, dog-eat-dog mentality/culture and so expect everyone to behave purely selfishly...for sure, we do this (under various economic stresses), but game theory research has shown that the majority of people will cooperate with their neighbors (in need), depending upon their mood and the history of interactions with said neighbors (you treated me well/fairly in the past, so I will reciprocate in the present/future, etc.).
'Our Favorite (Pie) Hits' now available!
Jason_K416 said:
You missed "Monera", but everyone misses Monera. I don't think they even classify Kingdom-Phylum-Class-Order-Family-Genus-Species anymore.
OldZoidberg said:
NOT unique to humans, but to ALL lifeforms. So, selfishness - or, even more accurately - LIMITED selfLESSness (limiting only to one's nation, one's gender, one's race, one's alma mater, one's species, one's political party or 2^N other categories)
is a property of ALL animals & plants & fungi & bacteria (I hope/think that covers all the kingdoms).
Jason_K416 said: (true stuff snipped) It all comes down to human nature, which is to be primarily a selfish asshole. This is further compounded by any form of difference, sex, race, color, gender, etc. (more true stuff)
NOT unique to humans, but to ALL lifeforms. So, selfishness - or, even more accurately - LIMITED selfLESSness (limiting only to one's nation, one's gender, one's race, one's alma mater, one's species, one's political party or 2^N other categories)
is a property of ALL animals & plants & fungi & bacteria (I hope/think that covers all the kingdoms).
You missed "Monera", but everyone misses Monera. I don't think they even classify Kingdom-Phylum-Class-Order-Family-Genus-Species anymore.
You've got to think bigger. Aliens.
I like Miley Cyrus. Not a fan of her music, but she seems pretty fun and caring, I also like that she doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks of her. Lol 
Second point, I agree with wamajama, humans aren't inherently selfish shit heads.
Second point, I agree with wamajama, humans aren't inherently selfish shit heads.
WAM models, producers, distributors are all people. With families that love them just like the people who are connoisseurs have families. If you have to think about people who are not a human with relatives and people that love them to get your rocks off, might I suggest anime porn for you? Thinking of anyone as less than a person is how people start justifying paying them less or treating them less. People here need to be treated with respect. Everyone involved with WAM that comes here deserves to be able to feel welcome here. We have enough things in our society that are forcing people to feel like they should hide who they are. There is nothing shameful about the kinks that people have and the people that participate in those kinks are not doing anything shameful. We need to keep this a warm community. I think that we need to have the moderators delete posts from people making others feel uncomfortable here. If there is not a rule about this, there should be.
imeanjoegreen said: I look at it this way. We are all born selfish and shitty, but we do not all die selfish and shitty. Often times, the self serving option is the best option, but it is the ability to act against that instinct that makes us kind, decent, and honorable. We are defined not by our inherent selfishness, but by our capacity to overcome it
I was a preschool teacher for 7 years and had been working before that with children since I was a child myself. My mother has always been in childcare, and my sister is head of the early childhood department at a college. Most children are not born "selfish and shitty." That is a learned behavior. As young as toddlers you can see people wanting to give and share and sacrifice what they like, giving it up to someone else because they want to be kind and make someone else smile. Although I do totally agree that when this is lost it can be found again! Woohoo!
This convo took another interesting turn. Lol! Sorry I had to get involved again on that note. Absolute BS, although there is a very small percentage of baby sociopaths. I've only met two though. Ha!
Oh wait, that's kind of coming full circle!! I haven't always been just a "whore" on the internet! Kapow! Lmao! This is fun y'all.
Aren't these mysterious layers sexy?! 
imeanjoegreen: you offer a well-articulated opinion...however, the research does not support it...apart from the innate drive/need to survive...selfish behavior is learned and conditioned by environment (deprivation) and modeling...pro-social and cooperative behaviors are more likely to ensure survival (short to long term) than purely selfish (and shitty) ones....how/why so many can not see this may itself be a product of social conditioning (everyone for himself, step on your co-workers to get ahead, etc.)...which we then project backwards in time to our early developmental stage.
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