This is ridiculous. The credit card companies should not be able to use their monopoly power to declare themselves unelected rulers of the world and everybody's sex lives.

I'm innocent I tells ya!

Long story short...this is what happens when banks get so powerful that they get to decide what constitutes legitimate fetish/sexual activity and what constitutes something taboo.

I did make a website directory of folk offering sessions

I had to take it down as people were complaining they got no reply from the models on there, and I'd lost contact with many of them so couldn't ask if they were still active

I'm willing to do this again on my website if people want it but.. please can everyone help me this time?

1) telling session providers I exist

2) getting them to contact me to create their ad

all the SEO hard work I did for it still exists. I could easily fire it up again. It got a lot of hits and channeled a lot of business.

It could be so helpful for everyone but I'm not chasing my tail and putting in hours, gathering up everyone active who wants to be on there, just to make other people money and get whinged at if someone doesn't reply - all at my own expense

I want everyone to be successful and all customers to be able to find what they are looking for but if no one else will help make it easier on me then I'm not putting the time and money in.

I like this idea.

You took that on and you are willing to do it again? God bless you! I hear the stories from Jennifer Thomas over at Sessiongirls and she is constantly under the gun. It's not an easy gig by any means. I don't have much down time but I can do my best to help in any way I can if you need it!

Thanks guys

Literally all I need is if you or anyone reading this know of anyone that offers sessions, just get them to drop me an email.

All is need from them is their consent and a few words about them and what they do, which country they are in and their preferred contact details. They can add a pic if they want.

What I found when doing this last time is that there are hundreds of session providers. But they tend to only mention it on their social media, they are not members here and have never heard of me so I message to ask if they would like a free ad and I get ignored.

The few that did advertise with me before know me already. I had maybe 15/20 or so altogether, but there are waaaaaay more out there.

This is why if YOU know them, please explain who I am and why it's a good idea for them to advertise (free of course) on a wam specific website and to please contact me (I can't go around chasing everyone)

If enough providers want a free ad and contact me I'll fire it up again. candywamcustard@gmail.com

So I know a couple who are interested if not curious about getting into it. I have shot with them before and they are awesome ladies but I am going to be upfront and say that these ladies will not put up with any nonsense from misogynistic seekers looking for sex. It's not on the menu. They will leave that site in a New York second if they don't feel safe or if they feel their boundaries are not being respected. I know sessiongirls has a blacklist site for seekers who have either ghosted providers, been creeps or just plain horrible human beings. Will you have something similar?

No, sadly I do not have time to keep up with and maintain something like that. That's more like some kind of club. Way too much responsibility. I can't take that on.

What I did before and willing to do again is purely a directory. It's then up to the session provider themselves to be savvy enough to deal with timewasters and do their own safety screening.

I did it myself for years with my own sessions - anyone offering them should learn about it themselves in great detail before advertising.

but you know maybe this won't even happen again anyway - because the way things are it's kind of inevitable that we pass each other by

Session providers are happy with their own advertising methods and not looking for me or UMD

The people who already know about them, don't need to look for anyone else

The people seeking them don't know where to look and therefore can't point them out to me or put a good word in for me so I can set up their ad.

It would be up to me to chase it, and I do not have time for that.

So - we'll see.

So do I!!!

It's still a great idea and would be great to make it happen (again).

But this is my point - there are other paid sites where the same arrangements are permitted. If they work with mainstream payment providers and can openly advertise this happening why do we need a blanket ban on this within our community?
In terms of vetting/approvals I was thinking more along the lines of "those who are approved to offer customs may advertise sessions if they wish" rather than vetting people separately to specifically offer sessions. This wouldn't be any more work for admin and ensures that there is at least some restriction on who is allowed to offer this.
I am however looking at this from a UK perspective where I believe the law may be a little greyer. Prostitution itself is legalised here, however the solicitation of services in public places is illegal.
I can see both sides of the argument - just trying to explore the art of the possible as this would seem a shame and step back for the community

What sites facilitate sexual meetups, where are they hosted, and what commission rates do they charge? I believe UMD is hosted in Nevada (but in Las Vegas, not in one of the counties where sex work is legal) and only charges 30% commission - and even (very rare for the adult industry) can accept PayPal for payments, because of Epoch's very strict anti-fraud rules and low chargeback rates.

Bear in mind you can probably find a payment processor willing to take almost any risk, if you pay them 70% commission. But I doubt many UMD store owners would be happy to only receive $3 for every $10 spent just so a few people can advertise sessions work.

Also if you read MM's original post, he's going on feedback he's getting from his financial partners, this isn't theoretical, it's what the people actually doing UMD's payment processing at the moment are saying is necessary.


TBH I suspect the only way any payment-taking wam sessions site is going to fly is if it's hosted in an EU country where sex work is fully legal, and uses an European billing partner like Verotel.

Aside: Can we please use the term "sex work" instead of "prostitution" when discussing these issues, sex work is the term sex workers themselves prefer, whereas prostitution is a perjorative mainly used by those who want to ban sex work and criminalise the workers.

I get it but like, man, when did credit card companies all suddenly start giving a fuck after 25 years of internet porno?

Blame it on the PornHub fiasco. Allowing anonymous users to endlessly and repeatedly upload and re-upload rape videos of underage kids, and refusing to do anything meaningful, like requiring user verification or video fingerprinting, to put a stop to it, until Mastercard acted, is what got us here.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55267311

Glad you're willing to provide a list and service like that. I've always enjoyed my sessions at your studio and have probably had over 20 during the years with various studios, most of which seem to have shut down.

Also, all of this thread seems to have started from the payment providers. Am i missing something, as I've always paid the models in cash at sessions or is it something to do with the models/studios having to subscribe to advertise on UMD using a payment provider?

Shame the world is turning into a much more restricted place. It seems all the governments were happy when everyone was locked up in their houses for two years during covid and couldn't do anything, or is that just my impression of it all.

When the hyper-conservative cristofascists decided to attack them for aiding and abetting anything that THEY didn't approve of. Hence the takedown of BackPage and the removal of all things sexual or personal from Craig'sList. Hence the destruction of 90% of pornhub's vast collection of stolen works. Hence SESTA/FOSTA. etc. etc. etc. All pressure from the religious right in their quest for power and the creation of their dream theocratic state. This is what happens when people vote for extremists. A generation ago, nobody gave two shits about the rabid religious right. Then the moderate right realized they were losing power and didn't know fuck all about modern technology, so they started cultivating the extremist rabble-rousers, who trotted out their only real weapon, the "think of the children" banner. In reality, they don't give a shit about anything but power and control., That's what this is all about.

This is a very sad move. Like many others I have enjoyed sessions with girls over the years and always agreed the parameters of our meet, with some happy to go further than others.
I can honestly say that it's been the session itself that has been fun.

I am still failing to understand why this change is being made. Unless I am missing something, UMD does not benefit from sessions or gain any kind of commission or even facilitate the payment. I could understand if UMD was being used to process the payments for private sessions but how is person x advertising the opportunity to spend time with them for an agreed price any different than what Adultwork does?
I appreciate there are nuances such as Adultwork is hosted in Europe etc, but I have to reiterate that this seems a huge step backwards in terms of our community and can only adversely affect SWs on here.
I would also like to apologise in case my use of a particular "P" word offended anyone reading my responses.

Coming from someone who has a lot of friendships with models, sessions for models are small nightmares. Far too many clients paying a non-refundable deposit, then canceling before the session and demanding the deposit back. Even in writing when it says non-refundable they tend to file a chargeback.

If you read MM's original post, his payment processors have said they count wam sessions as escort services, basically, and won't handle UMD payments if the site is seen to be allowing ads (or, from MM's edit, requests) for escorting. Obviously we all know that many WAM sessions aren't sexual, either during or after, but from the POV of a bank's T&C department lawyers they neither know nor care about the detail differences of various types of fetish work and what does and doesn't carry over into sex. As far as they're concerned, someone paying someone else to meet up == sex work.

I know women who've worked as escorts, and while there was lots of attending fancy functions and conferences, so the guy could be seen with a glamorous woman dressed to the nines instead of being on his own, once the function was over and they got back to his hotel room, shagging like bunnies was very much on the agenda.

This probably also means that while Candy could restart her (UK hosted) sessions providers web page, the link to it couldn't be posted here or included in the UMD directory.


UIMD is American and has to follow US law and US payment processor rules. Which do tend to be rather more draconian than European ones.


Thanks for listening, on behalf of several SWs I know as friends, appreciated. Don't think will have offended anyone, but worth being aware of for those of us who are SW positive. It's one of those signal things, SWs know that people who use "sex worker" rather than "prostitute" are more likely to be on their side.


We dabbled with sessions but closed it all down again due to just too much hassle. It seems people who book wam sessions are the most unlucky people in the world. With a very few exceptions everyone who booked then suffered a personal disaster, family deaths, house fires, exploding cars, unexpectedly being made redundant, called for jury service, various broken limbs. I began to think I'd unleashed some kind of ancient Egyptian curse on the world.

It's worrying enough trying to get a two-model custom to work smoothly, everyone available on the chosen day, and then all follow the plan correctly. Adding attendance of a random third party who may well drop out on the day into the mix just magnifies the hassle factor beyond anything justified by the income. Hence why we quit the sessions business. I have huge sympathy for anyone who perseveres with it.

I hate to see it coming, but I am afraid we will reach a point where they will say no sexual acts between people during filming. Because technically, if you pay 2 people to perform a session and there is sexual acts involved they will see it as sex work. It will go the same path this is.

The underlying issue here is a lot bigger and people are missing it. MM has no choice but to fall in line with what the Credit Card Companies dictate and here is the real issue! There is nothing wrong with being a Sex Worker its the oldest profession the the world if you offer sex or not. This is a fetish, a fetish is based in sex, have sex with a session girl, have a sploshing session or even go to a strip club, then go home and jack off, it still ends in an orgasm. What needs to happen is sex workers need rights too and the credit card processes need to get off there religious based high horse.

I know a lot of girls who offer sessions, they all have different limits from no touchy, to a foot jot to full on sex, a girl is free to do what she chooses, what is important is there is a huge prejudiced against sex workers, especially in England and the USA. I have talked about this at length with the ladies and suggested Crypto Currencies! It not controlled by banks or credit card companies, the trouble is not many people really understand Crypto. I mine crypto and have a Visa card that takes money out of my Crypto account when I buy anything with it. Technically I could do without a high street bank account and no ATM/ regular credit card, no Governments, financial institutions or Visa can dictate or monitor what I do with my money.

Poor MM has no choice, no matter your opinion that it! What I think should happen is legitimize Sex Workers, give them rights, its a business like any other, they can offers what ever services they wish, but they have to put up with Business and Social Prejudices of mega proportions. Twitter is full of sex workers, there are many web sites dedicated to sex workers. If MM does not fall in line will will loose all Credit Card Processing on the UMD, then MM had no financial help to support the UMD.

Phil

This is legitimately the only real solution, and I am 100% on board with this idea. MessMaster has made it clear there are rules he has to follow which means we all have to follow them as well. I was legit just about to post that starting next year I will be offering what is now banned, so I will not be able to post that here, sadly. I'm definitely willing to help you get your website working Candy

On another note, is it okay for people to meet up at all? Even if it's not a paid session? Is the personals section going to disappear completely? I mean, the credit card companies usually interpret everything they can as prostitution even when it clearly isn't being offered, so is it forbidden to ask people to get together at all?

As for social media, don't rely on it for anything business related except gaining followers and getting attention. You absolutely cannot offer in person sessions on OnlyFans, the word "meet" is immediately flagged and you cannot post that word or anything related to it. IG is worse, I can't even mention the word "sale" on my posts on Instagram when I'm posting about a new video. I got flagged and almost suspended for posting a vid sale in my store earlier this year. I've also had warnings for flagged words in my DMs there too, so I know that Meta is super serious about it, and they have to follow the same rule as MessMaster. I don't know what the hell is going on with Twitter, but I'm definitely not relying on any social media for allowing anything that is banned from an adult website. To be honest, I don't like using IG and Twitter to post adult content anyways. I'm definitely thinking about not using them anymore.

Is crypto ever stable? Does the value of it fluctuate? It doesn't seem reliable. Bitcoin has dropped significantly and it's not worth the same as it was during the pandemic. I don't know enough about it and a lot of the sex workers I know don't know enough about it to rely on it to buy groceries or healthcare or pay their mechanic or pay their landlord. Not sure if crypto is just as easy to use to pay for things or if it will still be worth what you gained it for.

And while sex work is a noble business, there is still a problem with the adult industry being used and manipulated for really nefarious acts that go unchecked by amateurs who don't care where their money comes from. There actually are real problems that we need to be aware of, it's not just credit card companies acting religiously here. This is a high risk industry and we need to be aware of all the risks in order to fix these problems. Pimps are real, grooming is real, abusive parents who groom are real, foster care workers who groom are real. These are the people who are the problem, not the credit card companies, but the fact that our industry goes unchecked and it puts all legitimate businesses in serious scrutiny and jeopardy when these people infiltrate this work. This is why I feel uncomfortable with using public social media platforms for adult content like IG, Twitter, and TikTok. It's not age restricted or age appropriate and people go there without consenting to see adult content. We need to really create a standard and a legitimacy for our industry and be educated in who the dangerous people are and refuse to do business with them. We need to create an organization that can actually educate, raise awareness, and unionize the people who are legitimate as well as report the groomers and the violators of the standards of practice to keep them out of the websites and the industry in general.

Thanks Candy - I was looking at your old site last night (after I saw this announcement), then discovered that it was no longer active. It would be a really useful resource if you could get it up and running again.

One question about that: would the UMD be allowed to link to the website (or mention it directly), or would people just have to discover it independently (e.g. via a Google search or word of mouth at a splunch)?

Thanks x

I made a form - anyone who offers sessions (or I'll consider any wam service actually like selling gunge powder or whatever?) can fill in the form and I'll make them/you a listing.

Anyone who wants the form please message me - or see my main website and go to the obvious section that covers this topic (don't wanna link to it as may count as advertising even though I'm not offering them at the mo)

The form comes with a few hopefully obvious disclaimers.

I think that the merits of crypto currency are a whole other discussion, which should probably go in its own thread. In brief, though, I'm not a fan. Leaving aside the environmental impact, the whole point about these currencies being uncontrolled is that you don't have any protection when things go wrong. There have been various "rug pulls", where the developers just shut down a project and walk off with everyone's money. Take a look at:
https://web3isgoinggreat.com/

Being charitable, I'd say that this is equivalent to investing in the stock market. If you know what you're doing, and you're willing to take risks, you could make a lot of money. However, I wouldn't recommend this to the average person, and I personally wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

Our terms already precluded offering sex with sessions or doing anything that could be construed as prostitution, and our prospective new billers have already reviewed our TOS. So really, a disclaimer was already there. I really doubt the banks are prudes trying to get rid of sex; They don't like the chargebacks that come from these private sexual agreements.


Yeah they know we're not paying our producers for any of that stuff, but still, to have people advertise for it on the same forum is probably too close for comfort. So the whole site and company have to comply to the same standard. Seems to be SOP.


I don't believe they get into all that. In the past we've had scammers promote a wam tour and gather money from a lot of people only for them to ghost everyone, never to be heard from again. That's why advertising session tours was already banned and you could only plug one-on-ones. To me, that rule seemed to pretty much stop the fraud, but from the level of a bank I'm assuming they still see enough fraud overall that they don't want to touch a site that traffics in it in any way.


We'll still support people offering them on their sites FWIW. We could link to the sites but just can't advertise the actual sessions.


I think it's more about avoiding the chargeback situation. If somebody collects a bunch of money for sessions, and spends all the money and disappears, people will levy chargebacks that the bank has to eat. We're not billing for sessions, but compliance due diligence just doesn't want to be anywhere near that.


No. I think they're smart enough to know what's up. And why risk the account by allowing people to do that, right?





Remember, these are literally adult merchant account companies. They are not prudes and literally exist to bill for adult content. They care about their money, period. Customs and sessions are not a good look to them.


It might be okay to link to the site, but directly advertising that it's a sessions directory would likely be a problem. That's where we'll draw the line for now, but of course the situation is always in flex and could get less, or more restrictive.


Exactly. People will blame YOU for the failure of their off-site agreement that had nothing to do with you. They'll blame you for even linking to their stuff or for not vetting the producer better. They'll blame you for not removing their account. Many of them won't exactly even know that the producer isn't directly affiliated with your site.


Different merchant account providers have different standards. You can technically run a site with the most brutal sexual stuff on it and it's possible to find SOME sort of billing for it. I don't know how they do it, but we are trying to use legit, stable partners to work with.


Good idea. Prostitution didn't mean that back in the day and as we get older we need to realize that usages change and take on different meanings. Still, this term is what's being used in the legal agreements and conversations, and means something more specific than just sex work like being in a porno. It means actual prostitution. If there's a better word that means this then let me know!


The whole site / business is taken into consideration when a bank does due diligence on a prospective customer. We are intimately familiar with this site and we know the forums and user activity are separate from the store system, but they won't necessarily want to make that distinction. Also, we're talking about paying out as well. If you are advertising sessions here, they can't be sure that WE aren't paying you for that.


And the struggle is real with the resultant chargebacks. Merchant account providers also have to stay under certain chargeback ratios with their own banks and intermediaries. There's a whole hierarchy of companies to comply with.


I don't think selling the resultant scene is the concern. It's sessions falling through, the producer spending the money, and the bank having to eat the charge. If this happens for a ton of these types of transactions then they could lose their own ability to process payments. So now they won't even partner with a site where users are doing that in any capacity for the fear we might end up doing some billing or payouts for it.


Meetups and personal ads are fine. Just can't discuss taking any money for it


Didn't know they were that restrictive. Makes sense especially if they use multiple financial providers who all have their own restrictions. You've got to abide by everybody's rules.

This^. Adult film production is being called to put a 7 day hold on production and models retested due to an outbreak of chlamydia in the industry. Worst part is viable resources are telling me that it is due to assholes running around with doctored STI results. The rabbit hole gets deeper. If we are being honest, testing only works if everyone is on board and the influencer culture created from OF and Pornhub has made things worse in some ways as it's fostered an environment where people can sidestep many of the testing requirements the bigger/legitimate producers require in order to get in the door. This presents a huge health and safety risk among the plethora of others SWrs face.

Switching to Crypto won't fix the behaviors that led to this outcome. The Pornhub fiasco was the turning point that made this all possible and what it says is the industry needs to do a far much better job at being responsible and self governing or someone will do it for us.