Howdy, folks.

I wanted to see what the general feeling of the UMD community is towards chubbier/curvier/bbw women and wam. I know that London Andrews has been a pretty popular model for Messygirl, but I wondered if anyone else would be interested in seeing more large women in WAM (acknowledging that there are in fact a few already). April flores, Kelly Shibari, and the like?

Yeeeeees! BBW on mud, maybe... My favoryte is Kitten (Binnay & Kitten)
Like to see MORE bbw, curvy, large - on mud, clay, sauce, oatmeal, etc., etc.:splat:

I love messy curvy girls & BBWs! I wish BBWAM.com took off more. That was a great store!

Heck yeah!
London, Layla, April Flores, are probably my top three favorite models!

There is a demand for BBW wam, we've done several shoots with larger ladies and they have all been popular. Although not really a BBW our latest shoot features Jenny with huge tits.

Actually that's my big thing. Thick ladies with relatively thin middles are equal to WAM in my preference. Not BBW with rolls of fat, but... super thick. London Andrews would be a good example, but on here, maybe like Slime Star, half of Messygirl's models, etc. I'm all about the booties n boobs, and a little bit of chub in the middle is all gravy, too. It's part of the reason I named UMD's sister Loverbuns!

I'm in full agreement with Messmaster.

Thanks for the props MM

I love me some big messy girls, as my screen name should tell y'all.

I also agree with messmaster...that's why Messgirl is my favorite site, hands down.

Occasionally, I find petite models attractive, but it usually surprises me when I do....
In a reversal of things, some of my favorite thin models are:
Jessica from Gungegirls UK--beautiful face and hair, amazing reactions.
Selena and now Casey from Skylar's site.
Ariel. What's not to like?
Sarah, Fae, and Viviane as more petite Messygirl models.

Oops, I would note that many people would say that all those models are well-endowed, especially up top, and that may be true. But they are the thinnest models I'm into, and my sense of what "average" breast size is like is probably skewed by all the wonderful women I have dated all my life, causing me to think that D or DD is average--so that just might be my personal experience/weirdness there.

Ahem... producers take note! Plenty of larger fetish models out there and it would be a huge surprise if there weren't at least a few of them willing to get plastered with pies.

I love BBW wam girls.
I also love the models and beautiful ones of course.
A girl with a big butt or big tits getting messy becomes more sexy and attractive for me that anything else.
There are some producers who always get some large girls many times mixing with thin girls, what is amazing in my opinion.

Oops, adding a line to forewarn you I get ranty here about something close to my heart. I sound more than a bit self-righteous, but am bursting with the need to say it anyway. Perhaps I'm a great person who cares about other peoples' feelings. Or perhaps I'm a selfish bastard that want us to treat models well so they stick around longer. If you ask me, it's probably six of one, half a dozen of the other. Commence rant:

Man, I was just watching a youtube vid where a girl is complaining about the term BBW, and it made me sad. I understand her feelings, but I think she misses the point, and could better put things in perspective if she thought about what the term really means vs how it's used in marketing. It might make her feel less sad about the term, which has supposedly caused her great grief in her life, and that would be nice. Right after posting a video that curvy girls shouldn't date guys who want them to change their bodies or say they can "accept and get over it," but only true appreciators like, say, me, who say "you're beautiful exactly as you are," she says that BBW is a derogatory term, and tries to suggest that guys who like curvy girls are some kind of sick fetishists. I see a conflict here...if you don't like curvy girls, wouldn't you be one of the "oh, well, I can accept that" people?

As you may have guessed, I disagree. I could understand women not wanting their personal blog pictures and stuff showing up in BBW porn sites, but that has nothing to do with the BBW part of it--it's about respect for their privacy and personhood. I think BBW was a hugely complimentary term until it needed to be used for porn marketing and search-engine optimization--in other words, a label to help people find what they might want to see.

Sometimes when women are bothered by the term, what they are really bothered by is people being creepy or people posting their photos in contexts where they don't want them posted. This is an excellent and legit target for their anger.

But, through the way things have been marketed, people forget that one of the b's stands for "Beautiful." In other words, for most of us, it isn't about just any plus-sized person, it's about truly beautiful people. So the problem is with sites who call it a fetish rather than a preference, and the people who accept the term fetish in that context. It's about the entire person as much as it's possible to be looking at images on a screen--which, as everyone admits, has its limits for understanding. As I said above, personality shows through sometimes. But liking "BBW" girls isn't any more a fetish than liking Blondes, Brunettes, or Redheads--it isn't the singular aspect that counts. I'm certain if I knew someone who only liked blondes, I could show him/her pictures of someone blonde that they didn't find attractive. If it were a blonde fetish (or a fetish for larger women), that would be all that counts, and it would trump all other aspects of the person's appearance and/or personality. I suspect that's rarely what is going on, and calling people fetishists for having a "type" in terms of people is wrong, unless that's the only thing that matters, and it automatically makes someone that wouldn't otherwise be at all attractive to you attractive (IMO WAM has fetishistic aspects in that goes a ways in doing this--I can sometimes appreciate the mess and the situation, even when the model isn't my "type.)

Anyway, porn marketing has never been semantically good to women. There are videos out there by (usually mainstreamish, non-wam producers) that have titles that ruin it for me, calling every woman a "horny slut" and stuff like that. It's mean, degrading, and generally a bad idea, as it might affect the attitudes toward the women of the gullible, the young, or people lacking strong convictions. BBW isn't an insult--it's a compliment--but in complimenting actual women, just call them "beautiful." The extra "B" is there so you can find what you like, and once you're talking to / seeing images of a beautiful woman, it becomes an unnecessary qualifier.

Why did I post this here? Well, I'd like to help the community think more about how the terms we use in marketing and searching aren't necessarily the terms we should use dealing with real people once you're past that search engine. And, if there are women who object to the term, I thought a discussion of how/why it picked up some of its connotations was worthwhile. It's honestly also because I wanted to post it on that lovely and concerned woman's youtube page, so she could see that people aren't trying to degrade her and other curvy women as much as her understanding of the terms would have her believe. (OK, aside from perhaps a few crazy asshats who are--but there's an idiot in every group of people, and the internet is a very large group of people.) Unfortunately, I can't comment on youtube without revealing my identity--which would be fine with me, except for issues it might cause at work.

Some psychological and sociological studies are starting to suggest that the availability of porn on the internet (way more variety and anytime availability than in the print days) might be affecting attitudes toward sex, gender, and people. Instead of one definitive study exactly on that topic, it seems more to me like a variable lurking behind the results a number of other studies are getting.

Apologies for the long, "philosophical" post here. But I like to remind us all, now and again, that these are photographs of real people with their own lives and their own feelings, and we should address these people as politely we would anyone we were speaking face-to-face with. Not that anybody got out of hand on this thread (that I remember,) but it might even be good to remind lurkers who might be communicating with or posting about models on other sites.

Myds, I agree with most of your points here. I especially agree with the part about some producers (like you said, mainly mainstream porn producers) calling every woman a "Horny Slut", or if there are 2 women in a set, doing nothing sexual, "Hot Lesbians").

I have several different feelings about the "BBW" label. For one thing, big boobs do not a BBW make. "BBW" does not stand for "Big-Boobed-Women". I'd say that most of the women pictured in this thread are NOT BBW's. THEY ARE NORMAL. They are not skinny, they are not "adolescent" -looking, they are normal adult women. Yet if they are not fairly thin, women end up being labeled "BBW"s.

The other thing is that I just have an "icky" feeling about the term "BBW". It's almost like it's the politically-correct term for over-weight (by society's standards) women. "If we call them Big BEAUTIFUL Women, they won't mind posing for us". I can see from a marketing standpoint, or for search engines, like you said, that it may help people to find what they are looking for. And it's definitely better than calling a woman "fat". But it's almost like it's code for heavy women regardless of what they look like. So I can see why the lady you mentioned from youtube didn't like it.

I hope that my wording on this came across as intended. It was meant to support women of all sizes who don't conform to society's "standards".




I definitely agree on this. I've seen women who may not be my "type" (And my type is a broad range of characteristics), but look very hot when wet or messy. But I think partially, it's like "Wow! If she's willing to do this, she's pretty cool!" (One of my "types" is women who enjoy wam!) So suddenly she becomes "my type"! But it's not so blindly applied that *any* woman who gets wet or messy suddenly attracts my attention. But it probably *is* mostly fetishistic.

Lots of great points to ponder, Myds!

Norman

Great post, Kitten! (I assume it came from Kitten; if it came from Binnay I'll be concerned! )

I, personally, like "curvy" as a description. And for you, I also like: Sexy, Hot, (and definitely) Cute! :lovestruck:

Norman

I would like to say that I personally find the term bbw when not used by women to describe themselves to be more than a bit icky and the ONLY reason I was willing to use it here was that it got my point across and added to the spectrum of ways I described the type of women I was talking about.

Lets just all agree that there need to be more women who are not thin in WAM?

Right... .... Like I said, "Normal Women". Not that there's anything wrong with thin women, but let's not act like that's the standard. :lovestruck:
Norman

And lovely she is, too!

You both look fantastic in these pics! :lovestruck:

I LOVE (LOVE, LOVE) the pic of you in handcuffs, getting your head dunked in "something green"! :devil: :lovestruck:

And Elle looks hot in that vinyl (?) dress!

Norman

I don't remember some of these pics, Kitten! And you look so hot and cute!

You look yummy in that 1st pic! Dessert is served! :lovestruck:

Sorry, now *I'll* stop hijacking the thread!

Norman

As a larger male wammer who likes larger ladies in "real life," it only makes sense that some of my biggest (no pun intended) WAM crushes are Candy, Layla, and Kitten. In fact, when it came time for my first session, I drove down south to visit Layla and we had an absolutely amazing time. So much so that I'm planning to see her again when she's down for FetCon next month, fingers crossed.

If you look at what I was saying, I wasn't really supporting calling anyone BBW except when you are searching. It's a sad fact for me that most producers favor people smaller than my taste, but I can't do much to change that, personally. (Back toward the beginning of the UMD I asked a certain now-famous producer if he would do a shoot with a chubbier girl, and he replied rather vehemently in the negative.) The term BBW should be for search engines just about exclusively, where it has become code for "girls bigger than your average playboy-style sites tend to include. Most people who use it as a category aren't trying to be negative--they are just very used to sites being organized as such. It's a bit like having sections for different kinds of music in a CD store--it helps connect you to the musicians who make a genre you like. If you like lots of different music, you will look in several sections, and if not you will only look some places. This all sounds very cold and calculating, which is why I am encouraging folks to think of the models as real people, once they find what they seek--if you meet Mick Jagger, you wouldn't say, "yeah, I found you in the classic rock bin!" That, of course, would be a stupid thing to say--so my point is that categories must exist, but they don't define people.

So, I have actually spoken with Kelly Shibari on Fetlife to see if she would ever be up for doing a WAM shoot... she said she would. So... Ahem.. producers... somebody contact that woman! .. and then, of course, pie and slime her or get her to roll around in mud or something.

http://s270.photobucket.com/user/Rush8track/media/KellyShibari4.jpg.html
https://api-assets-staging0.s3.amazonaws.com/slide/536acef741505068d61e0000/medium/medium_image-536acef741505068d61e0000-coalesced
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFic_pRCYAEpeEI.jpg:large

Love your PVC dress! x

I personaly like a lady with a little more to her. Vicky (London Andrews), Kitten, and MPV model Rockell Starbux (not a true bbw) have some good mud sets that come to mind.

I myself have had a few sessions off and on with the larger women the past couple of years & I like it. One of my best female friends is plus-sized but very attractive and I did have a Shaving Cream pie fight with her which was one of the best times of my life. I give my rubber stamp of approval for the women with curves.

Thank you hunny - I would have loved to do more with that site (with help from Big Dave et al) but alas it was not to be. It would be great to see more plus size models out there, but I feel it's always gonna be a niche within a niche as the general media is hell bent on forcing the "perfect" figure down our throats. Thankfully, fetish is one of the few places that has the balls to diversify and embrace models of different size (and that goes for tall, short, fat, thin).
To me, the term BBW (Big, Beautiful Woman) is all about women who are body confident and not afraid to show off their curves....it's not all about the boobs (well, OK, about 80%about the boobs lol)

You're very welcome sweety! I would have loved to have seen more. What's on there is amazing though. Maybe one day you can resurrect it.

Larger women and wam are an incredible combination, I have always enjoyed pics, videos and such from curvy ladies. Messy JoJo, Candy Custard, Kitten, Layla, Sophie and the list goes on but all of these sexy beauties bring a hottt edge to wam that is irreplaceable and hope they and more curvy ladies will continue having hottt fun in wam forever! Curvy girls rule!

I'm a little late to this thread, but I also like the curvier ladies in WAM. (And as I've said before, when there's something I don't like I generally ignore it.) I agree that labels, while a necessary evil from a marketing perspective, are reductive (and honestly not even that useful for searching, but that's a whole other thing :ohbruther.

I appreciate that so many models are directly involved here on the forum and take the time to communicate--it's such a small community (in the scheme of things) that it's really sad to think anyone would seek to exclude somebody else or make hurtful comments. Don't we get enough judgment from the rest of the world?

Some of those who prefer slightly chunkier ladies might like our latest update: http://umd.net/forums/sister_graves_in_suit_filling - Sister Graves is a UK size 14 (US size 10), and fills her swimsuit very nicely, both with herself and with custard, before pulling on a nice clean boilersuit (over her custard filled swimsuit), which also shows off her figure very nicely, especially from the rear, see sample pics in the thread for an example.