While I can speak for fuckall, I feel that this is me not doing my job.

Any promotional materials I put out are designed to get you to unass some money. If you are satisfied by what you see, and don't need to see more, than I have given too much. But if you aren't even intrigued, and have no desire to drop some cash, then, again, I have failed.

But, if I strike that happy medium, where you're intrigued by what you see and need to see more, then I have done my job. Assuming you play by the rules, which are: it's fine to spank to anything I've posted for free, but uncool to get the full version elsewhere.

yes and something needs to be done about it perhaps you would all be better off selling your videos on disc or something its sad that the technology today has taken everything good and made it bad for people that are trying to make a few extra dollars or make a living

IMHO, the best thing you can do is watermark your stuff. That way, if it does get shared inappropriately, you are still given credit. I've started watermarking all my vids with my logo and series name, that way, if it does find it's way to a file sharing site, there's still enough information available for interested parties to find similar material.

That takes a little sting out of the piracy, and turns it into marketing material.

Didn't Hillary Clinton tell the people of Kentucky that she was going to "put a lot of gunge miners and gunge mine owners out of business"?

Norman


[ Don't anyone get excited; it's just a joke based on Jammy & Jason's comments about "gunge mines"! ]

And that's very sad, as I loved the vids that you & Tara did! But I can sure understand.......

Norman

JASON THANK YOU.
i have sincerely thought about putting up one day a LIST of how much it costs and what we put on the line as moms, models, just people EVERY TIME WE FILM. it is not just rolling in food. Especially when we have men who wan elaborate productions and we price it and THEY CANT BELIEVE we would price it as such....okay.....
there is a script,
there are particular clothing you have to drive around to find,
foods that if they arent here you have to drive 20 more minutes away to find it, making it an hour long trip just to buy expensive foods. THE TARP IS INSANELY EXPENSIVE ONCE YOU ADD IT ALL UP.
sitters, trash bags, cleaning supplies, shampoos and body washes that help your hair to not fall out, break off or just morph colors....sd cards, camera batteries, light bulbs, the list goes ON AND ON AND ON....not to mention HOURS UPON HOURS of emailing ppl and they sometimes dont even come through or just stop talking to you right before they are going to pay for the custom you just talked to them for 3 days about...and ordered the stuff for it.

ALSO:CAM MODEL PRICING IS KILLING THE INDUSTRY. i wont say dick else about that bc it could get ugly.
Not saying another word....im just saying that and leaving it at that.

anyway, i love the umd. i love you all and i have and never will pirate umd material or any wam material for that matter. and anyone who sees my stuff pirated, ill give you a free video if you inbox me with where it is thanks!

Part of the problem, user attitudes aside, seems to be that personal computing has developed to be hard-wired to make things easy to duplicate. Copy-paste, screengrab, rip, simple as that. There would be big money waiting for any programmer who could develop a system that made it easy to view a file but impossible to copy it without a key. Perhaps rather than streaming, the file would still be downloaded by the user but could only be viewed by opening it with some kind of public-key cryptography (Wiki it if you're unfamiliar with the technology - it's what keeps your online banking secure) which remotely prevents any action other than viewing the file. Any attempt to copy, edit etc would result in the file immediately being locked or deleted. (the other motivation for commercial use is that requiring a login can generate data about what all the users are viewing). Can't be that difficult surely?

Up side here: I hereby waive copyright to all of those dick pics I've sent to everyone over the years, so feel free to redistribute those puppies to your hearts' content!

What... you mean loads of young women showing up, pointing a camera at themselves and charging men money to see it?

That's a bit of a glass house to throw stones around in a niche that you have an advantage in already by being female.

If you want to bitch about competition and cost, bear in mind a few hours of your time is not a cost when you are both model and producer.


I'm not mad and love our female producer slash models, but you know... let's be real and have some perspective.

It is very difficult to prevent piracy due to the manner in which the Internet enables piracy by allowing them to hide their true identity. Note also that piracy continuously evolves to get around anti-piracy countermeasures. Pirates always have the advantage of it takes ever increasing amounts of time, effort, and money to disrupt their activities so you are faced with diminishing returns on your efforts to suppress piracy. And all of your efforts can be erased by the existence of just one BitTorrent stream containing your material being made available. And I haven't even mentioned the jurisdiction problem of trying to suppress a pirate in a country that offers a safe haven to piracy.

It is rarely practical to do more than to just keep the act of piracy from being easy and convenient by suppressing copies of your works appearing on YouTube, VK, and similar. Watermarking is great but not effective unless you can manage to create watermarks that uniquely identify the customer who is pirating your material. And you will rarely be successful in pursuing that customer for damages and will only disrupt his operations to the extent of making him create a new identity.

Alas, Internet piracy follows the same rules as piracy on the high seas through the ages, which if you'll note, has never been eliminated, only controlled. So, taking that as a lesson, never presume that piracy can be eliminated, only controlled. And control really translates as the effort and cost to pirate something.

And keep in mind that many pirates are not potential customers, real pirates never buy anything and are proud of it so you are not actually losing a potential sale to them. Instead, their activities expose your material to the middle ground of potential customers who will pirate if pirating is easy enough and some of whom will buy your product if it is cheap enough.

My point being, piracy is always related to the cost of the product. That means that the existence and inevitability of piracy must be factored into the cost of your product. The higher the cost of your product, the more likely it is to be pirated.

Piracy has costs in time, effort, and money too. I know, I am on most of the pirate networks to keep track of what material of mine is being pirated. The effort I expend is not inconsequential. Keep your costs low, reward repeat purchasers, and you will maximize your potential profit.

Much of the discussion of piracy devolves into dreaming of a monopoly where there is no piracy and the producers can expending anything they want in producing content and know they can still make enormous profit because a fetish customer must pay that price or do without. That was were the industry was a few decades ago but that day is gone now and unlikely to return as long as the Internet facilitates being anonymous.

Keep your costs down to the point where your can compete with the pirates for your customer's hard earned dollars. Watch for opportunities to seduce the more effective pirates by, in essence, paying them off with free or discounted content to betray their followers. Take a lesson from the sea, more pirates have been bought off than have ever been hung.

Preach morality but never forget or try to convince yourself that more than a tiny vocal fraction of your customers are actually honest. I know, you'd be surprised how many of those with an honest reputation I've identified on pirate networks trading our material away.

Just saying...

Mmmm.... can of worms.

Hope everyone is able to get their videos removed quickly.

I do agree that going after the source of the problem (the people distributing the videos without permission) seems like the most appropriate solution however i do not have the tech knowledge to comment on how realistic that is. Often the people downloading and re-posting content are committing multiple crimes since they are using stolen credit cards to obtain the videos. If they are using stolen credit cards then they are tech savvy enough to be hiding their IP address and are not easily traceable.

I personally have more animosity towards torrent sites and tube sites that know they are distributing copyrighted content illegally and don't care. Sure tube sites will eventually take down a pirated video if you send proper notification but then they will let the user upload the same video again and again because they want content on their site. All they care about is traffic and they can remain totally blameless against copyright infringement because they aren't posting the content, their users are.

I think it's worth considering the thought process a customer would go through when deciding whether to buy a WAM film. Think about it from this perspective:

Major Hollywood Blockbuster Blu-Ray - $10
-Reviewed by critics
-Trailers available
-High quality product from major studio
-Well known actors
-Rock solid venue to buy from (i.e. Amazon)

WAM Fetish Film - $15
-Unknown quality
-(Maybe) Some pictures to give a vague idea of what happens
-Relatively expensive
-Sexual arousal from a fetish requires very specific elements which may not be present
-Pretty much any online store to buy WAM material is a bit sketchy (compared to Amazon at least)

Overall, buying a WAM film is a much bigger risk for most people. WAM films are expensive unknowns, which causes the people buying them to have no idea if they'll be duds or masterpieces. Over time, I've spent money on a number of videos which I immediately regretted when they didn't jive with my tastes.

I don't understand how it's at all a surprise that people don't want to take this risk. People don't want to spend $15 on a questionable-quality video that they might just immediately delete.

If producers really want to cut down on piracy, there has to be significantly more transparency in the selling process. If producers want to charge $15 for a clip, they have to prove that the video is, in fact, worth $15. In my experience, trailers have been a great help in selling me on particular clips. If a producer doesn't want to publish a trailer, they have to price their videos with the understanding that customers are taking a risk by buying them.

We can't just blame immoral customers or video sharing sites. Producers need to take steps to make the process of purchasing videos more transparent so that customers will feel more comfortable spending their money.

Counterpoint:

Major Hollywood Blockbuster ($10):
--Promotional budget (trailers, ads, etc) higher than combined cost of every WAM video produced in 2016
--Potential market = 5 billion people (most of world, minus those weird remote countries)
--Movie has already made $500M-$1B in theaters
--Number of $10 copies sold = several million

WAM Fetish Film ($15, or $5, or $1, or nothing if you do the "Pay What You Want"):
--Budget will more than likely exceed sales
--Potential market = 5000 UMD users, approximately (broken down into 50 great customers, 350 customers with super-specific tastes, and 4600 who never buy anything)
--Number of $15 copies sold = 6? 11??

About the ONLY real selling point that a WAM video has over any Hollywood movie is that it fills such a specific need. So if you HAVE that specific need, you are more willing to pay a higher price for something that hits it. And (until recently), your options were limited. And (until recently), you couldn't just scour the Internet and find a pirated copy for free.

Thanks to the glut of producers, the Fiver model, and YouTube, the WAM customer has more choice than ever. Add piracy into the mix and it becomes a near-impossible business model. At some point, the customer needs to realize that by supporting the producers he likes, he is directly encouraging them to produce MORE content. Because, unlike Hollywood, there's a direct correlation between not buying a producer's clips... and producer ceasing business.

I'm also not sure why buying from Vidown.com is "sketchy." It's identical to iTunes, except unlike iTunes, you can play the file on other devices... or transfer it to another computer without "authorizing a device"... or a host of other insane processes. I've bought downloads from Amazon too. Not sketchy, but not inherently easier or better than Vidown.

I think you misunderstood my point.

People buying WAM clips don't know what they're getting because a lot of producers barely give anything away in terms of trailers or pictures.

This results in a major risk to customers that keeps them from wanting to pay for a clip since they don't know what they'll get.

Greater transparency would help make the customer experience more positive since they wouldn't have to worry about buying a dud. This could be done through short sample clips or trailers.

Producers who don't respond appropriately to this aspect of the customer buying experience won't be able to compete as well in the market.

High prices relative to most movies further encourage people to avoid this risk since the proposition of paying for a WAM video seems even less appealing.

There is probably an optimal price point at which:
[Number of People Paying for Movie] * [Price of Movie]
reaches its maximum. The only way to figure this out is through experimentation.

Well, speaking of trailers:
I definitely built up my rep via trailers. I still think trailers are a great idea. Especially if you're an unknown producer.
BUT, on my end.... Some of my best-selling scenes have no trailer at all. And some of my best trailers promote scenes and volumes that... just didn't sell well. I've also seen my trailers pop up on other sites and YouTube channels (which is fine when they're intact, less so when they're not)... And seen "compilations" of my stuff with clips pulled from the trailers... And even fake IG pages with screen grabs from, yes, my trailers.

Bottom line: The trailers can definitely spread and promote across a wide range of channels (good). But they can also be a free "substitute" for actually buying the scene being promoted (bad, although honestly, most of those folks will never buy anyway). And for someone like me, where people KNOW the quality of my work, giving away a trailer and a lot of pics can sometimes have a counter-effect.

Occasional customer said something to me last year: "A lot of times your pics look great, and you post a ton, and then with the trailer, I feel like I don't even need to buy the scene. And then sometimes you'll just post a single pic, and I'm so intrigued about the scene that I have to buy it right away."
I'm not to the point where I'm just posting one pic and saying, "That's the scene." But... I've considered it....

I'm just saying... As niche-y as this market is, there's a fine line between posting not enough and too much.
But from a customer standpoint, I would say take a chance on a scene you like (especially since most of them are $5-7 anyway), but if you hate it, think twice before buying from that producer again. I mean, there are better MG clips than others, but they all have that MG "look." Same with Lenny's stuff. A producer isn't gonna do a 180 from one scene to the next, not with this market.
On the flipside, if you like 75% of a scene, watch that producer and maybe find one that hits your niche better next time. Or (crazy idea), CONTACT the producer and ask for suggestions! They probably know what scene(s) hit your particular niche better than you, providing you say exactly what you're looking for.

I guess that's true for people who tend to produce similar videos all the time. You definitely have a particular style which is consistent throughout your movies, so people will always know what they're getting. They're basically a commodity. You could probably just have 1 trailer and it could give an idea of what your style is and then have pictures for everything else.

Still though, when a producer charges $1/minute of film for a 25 minute film with no trailer and just a few pictures, how can they possibly expect people to feel comfortable buying it. I've definitely seen this happen quite frequently around here.

Nah, because people need constant reminders. Is every Marvel film kinda the same? Sure, but people still need the trailer to get excited again.

I'm also struggling to think of any producer who DOESN'T produce videos in their own style. Like I said, I can pick out a MessyGirl video just from a few screen grabs. Doesn't matter the era. Angelfan's videos are even easier. MessyFun had a style... The old WAMTEC/SSS stuff had a style...
I suppose the Moonins are one exception, because they produce a range of content, but even so: Their pie videos have a look and it's pretty easy to spot.

Maybe it just comes from being a pie fan. MG = lots of thrown crust pies with Cool Whip (and nudity), Lenny = buttercream (and nudity), Anglefan = all shaving cream (and male nudity)....

I think many of us provide trailers, free pictures and even full length films. We also have crazy sales where we virtually give our films away with up to 95% off, although this only happens a couple of times a year. As others have said we all have our individual styles of film which only appeal to some people. A huge Hollywood Blockbuster is going to sell to a vast many more people than the small WAM community. I think its kind of accepted that producers aren't going to sell huge volumes so have to price films to cover costs. Again, as others have said some films might only sell a handful, yes 4 or 5, videos and will make a loss. I think thats why it is so infuriating to find our work being shared online.

Totally agree on the transparency front, often I look at other producers' work and can't tell enough from the previews and descriptions to make a decision, which results in no sale. On my own stuff, I don't do trailers for all scenes due to lack of time (doing a trailer takes about four times as long as editing a main scene because of all the editing involved), but I do try and include enough detail in both the text description and the preview shots to make sure the customer can easily see:

• Exactly what the model is wearing, shot standing up, front and back, clearly showing what the outfit is, how it fits, and the model's figure.
  
• What camera angles we have used.
  
• How the model starts to get gunged. Is it fast or slow? Poured, thrown, or sat on?
  
• Clothes filling?
  
• Do their shoes get messed up on camera?
  
• If they are going into water, is it fast or slow, do they actually swim?
  
• Do they get their hair gunged, or a messy shampoo?
  
• Do their faces get gunged?
  
• How completely does the model get covered, does her back and bum get properly soaked in mess as well as her front?
  
• Is there sound? (our older scenes are silent, newer ones have full sound)
  

Basically there ain't no such animal as too much information when it comes to selling wam scenes. We all have our own preferences and for many of us if we can't be sure a scene is going to have what we want in it, we aren't going to part with our money.

While I certainly understand that from a customer perspective since I buy videos too, I have also noticed a strong correlation between releasing a trailer and lower sales. let's face it, some people just want to watch a 2 min trailer on a loop and jerk off to that instead of spending $10 on the full movie.

As a producer it feels like no matter what you do you can't win, at least with wam anyway. The only way I produce wam videos is as customs because I am not willing to take the risk of losing money on this. I love getting messy but this community makes it hard for me to want to keep producing this content.

I'm a student and have little to no budget to spend on WAM films and probably only end up purchasing them once or twice a year tops. For me the risk doesn't come into it at all. At the end of the day a film costs probably around 2 or 3 hours work at minimum wage to afford- In terms of risk that really is nothing compared to spending hundreds on a holiday or something.
A similar model for UMD's distribution is probably something like Steam. If I buy a game on Steam, firstly I have no idea if it will even run on my machine. If it does there are few quality guarantees besides perhaps a pre-rendered trailer and some concept art. I've bought games that are far more of a let down than WAM videos and for much less of a cost. And the point with quality I guess it all comes down to trust! I trust UMD and the people that use it to not allow any really poor quality producers to exist. Even if I end up being the only person to buy something the small size of this community can make feedback pretty direct and effective. But perhaps more quality assurances would be beneficial, maybe some way to encourage people to leave reviews of their purchases?

I think the reviews feature is really underused by a lot of people. Leaving a review is by far the best way for people to know what the films are like. If you book a holiday or go to a new restaurant I bet a lot of you check TripAdvisor to see what its like. If films were given more reviews then it could help people as much as Tripadviser does with holidays. Maybe giving reviewers some incentive would help. Maybe a points system of how many reviews you leave (from genuine purchases !) could lead to a free download or something.

I think this would be a really good idea.

Actually, a few producers DO give incentives for writing reviews. Some give a free vid, maybe a BTS clip, and others have similar benefits.

I know that we're all busy. Especially when I get several vids at once, I don't always take the time to do reviews. But I have done a fair amount of them.

It would be a great idea if we all took a few minutes to do a review when we buy a vid!

Norman

you just said everything i was gonna say RIGHT HERE. anybody can watch a trailer and jerk off to it and not buy the video. that is why i put up a description worth reading, pics of the video (as many as i can to capture what happens without giving away enough for ppl to just jerk off to my pics) and I urge ppl to give reviews. i havent done that a lot lately but i should.
we cant release anything for sale without doing customs hardly anymore bc we think something is going to be GREAT and a million ppl have asked for it...we do it...no one buys....they just look at the pics and comment on how great that was that we did it . um thanks? lol.
also, as far as comparing a wam video to a blockbuster...do you go to the movies and when you dont like the movie ask for a refund?
i mean, pirating our stuff is WRONG. i have, in the past and got it taken down, but found my stuff on sites where there are things on these sites that are WRONG. JUST DOWNRIGHT WRONG. I am ashamed to have my vids even in the same arena!
basically, you keep pirating or letting it happen, you will see the demise of well produced wam and great producers like leila, pattycake, messy jessie, reverendsl, s.s., and so many more! we all sell our stuff at INSANELY REASONABLE PRICES too! and we run sales, hell, i give away a free video to anyone who turns in anyone who has put my video on any other site!
i do drawings for ppl who leave reviews for ppl to get free videos! i have given free vids to ppl who do gifs for me (which was a mistake bc they ended up sharing my stuff other places than the umd...:/ and i really liked the guy too...) i have given SO MANY OPPORTUNITES for ppl to win free stuff, to get AWESOME discounts AND STILL THIS HAPPENS?? come on now, yall. the wam industry is completely different and you all should treat it as such.
have some respect. i could sit here and break it down like a shot gun EVERY SINGLE THING that adds up to us making barely shit on customs and we just HOPE TO GOD we will make money in sales to make up for it but, that would be a much longer post. thank you leila. you are always able to say things short and sweet. unlike me...i go on and on and on...lol XD
much love and respect

It sounds like you guys are giving way more than is necessary in a trailer. I imagine them as a short (30 second or shorter) tease which gives an idea of the tone that a scene will take. For me, I look to how "acted" will it feel.

I'm not saying you have to show large chunks of a scene, but some things cannot be communicated through pictures alone.

I've regretted tons of videos that I've bought, even from producers I used to buy constantly from.

Pictures let you know how the model looks and what is going to happen, description really adds, but only a trailer tells you how is the acting/delivery.

I bought videos and found out that I don't like the model (looked differently), that the description lied about the content, that the acting was dry and horrible (like reading lines from a script).

Knowing a video length, the script of what is going to happen (amount of pies, mess) helps and the seeing the model talk for a few seconds and how she acts is the most important (for the most part - is she happy? is she happy? is she sad?).

I've stopped buying plenty of videos after spending from most major names on clips that weren't as good as their description and missing elements I thought I'll find.

It's weird that you can get that on fiverr...