They can see their sales...if it costs more to do a wam sex video and it only does as well as regular stuff they might not be inclined to do more. They're not just making videos and have no idea what does well and what doesn't.

I know a guy who does these amateur videos, goes from just stripping to full on sex. He prefers the just nude ones but the sex ones do a lot better, so he makes them too.

I'm quite surprised that almost THREE times as many people want to see full messy sex compared to the next nearest option. That's HUGE!

Translation: If I were a producer, it would make the most financial sense to produce messy sex videos, over any other type of content. Not that I'm about to start producing anything.

Shooting full on messy sex scenes would be expensive - models willing to do that kind of work will usually be able to charge rather more than someone who's only doing fully clothed scenes - plus the eventual product will then be competing head on with the massed ranks of every porn site on the planet. Shoot something that's more specialist WAM, and while the market may be smaller there are fewer competitors doing the same thing, so more chance of actually selling content.

Plus what's said in polls and on forums rarely translates into what actually sells. The only reliable indicator of what will actually sell are our own sales stats on what are the best selling scenes from our catalogues. I was actually looking over mine the other day with a view to planning this year's shoots and realising that our rainwear scenes actually sell rather better than I'd realised they did - but thinking about it, we have always had something of a "workwear" vibe with all the overalls and boilersuits scenes we've done, and rainwear links into that rather neatly. Other producers will have very different experiences. Another thing that can affect things is how much any producer's models enjoy particular types of outfit. A model who is wearing something she actively enjoys and likes the look and feel of will have more fun getting messy in it than one who's only wearing the outfit because she's been paid to and wouldn't be seen dead in it otherwise - even if she's otherwise a keen wam model. And that enthusiasm comes over on camera, which can then translate into increased sales.

Okay, that makes sense. You're mostly looking at it from the perspective of the producer/marketer, while I was viewing it from the persepctive of customer/viewer.

But the second point you raise does get to the customer/viewer angle. A dedicated wammer generally doesn't want to end up with a scene shot by a "vanilla" porn producer who is just haphazardly throwing some mess into an otherwise rote porn video in order to try to rope in some additional business from the WAM community.

So very very very much this. Usually the loudest voices are the ones that have spent the least, and those that choose to vote with their wallets often do so in silent anonymity.

In the interest of catering the community as I do come in as something of an outsider, I'll often ask for hints on what folks would like to see from my scenes going forward, and I will integrate these ideas, but seldom does it lead to any appreciable increase in sales volume

That's amazing and surprising, does that mean we'll be seeing a lot more rainwear from producers?

Have any other producers seen this same trend?

I'm gonna +10000 to Pieromaniac_too. I'm mostly variable in the poll options. The only thing i'm picky at is option no.10. I'm not into heterosexual porn so that's a big put-off for me BUT i do like lesbian porn (or solo female masturbation).

i voted 8 on the poll because it was the closest to my 'furthest maximum'.

I really enjoyed filming two wam sex scenes last year but hooooboy it was expensive in terms of 'cost per scene' I also make things more difficult for myself by preferring a real couple who at least have an appreciation of wam rather than models purely doing as they are told.

Cleo and Luke were perfect, he'd been to film with me solo, enjoyed it and told his gf, she thought it sounded amazing and they offered to do xxx boy/girl scenes for me. Yes they were paid but their enthusiasm was through the roof and it made the scenes absolutely magic.

I do want to do more messy sex but they have split now and I'd really miss that certain extra chemistry of a real couple. I'm hoping to happen upon another such couple who are performers but also 'get it' and who will enjoy the fun and sensual aspects of wam

Don't be too quick in jumping to conclusions, the scenes in question also feature Veronica who was for a long time our most popular model, and the rainwear scenes are ones she did once we'd started including full sound, whereas some of her earier scenens (inlcuidng the long time most popular PVC catsuit one) were from our slient era, when we used to let the girls pick CDs to play as they were filming and we then removed the soundtrack so as not to infringe copyright, not realising that many people wanted to hear sound (I tend to watch WAM vids with the sound off so originally assumed everyone else did too).

Generally you can spot trends by whether producers repeat things. Some years ago there was a bit of a forum clamour for clown shoots. A few producers did some, but then never did any more, which tells you that those scenes didn't really sell. However since then there have been a few producers who have been more specialist and included clown themed sets not because someone was calling for them, but because it was a natural part of what they wanted to do - and they've had more success.

Way back in the 90s I was once advised "shoot what you love, never just shoot for the market, because when you shoot your own passions that shows in the results", and that advice is as sound today as it was quarter of a century ago. It's why I continue to shoot girls in boilersuits, overalls, and sometimes rainwear, because I love those styles of outfits and how the girls look in them, and consequently I've managed to build a stable of models who quite enjoy sometimes dressing in those kind of outfits too. Which of course is what lead to the rainwear mud scene we released at the start of the year, where Lucia and Honeysuckle chose to go back into the mud wearing the rainsuits they were supposed to travel back to the dungeon in, purely for the fun of it.

Well I would certainly hope every producer out there is constantly measuring and using any data they have to maximize sales and profits.

Rich seems to be very good at this and seems to really know his stats on what sells and what doesn't.

The issue for producers is you have to separate noise from genuine requests. Noise is people who will never buy your content, constantly posting comments to do certain types of scenes.

This is typically a trap, as you make such a scene, typically at a higher expense, only to find no additional sales, and yet another excuse from said "poster" about how that scene is just a "little" bit off or he'd buy it.

If I was WAM producer, I would definitely experiment with sales; clothed vs non-clothed, various degrees of "porn" - then the numbers don't lie.

What I've found that works - just personally with vids I produce, is I'm paying the model for their time. I'm only using fetish models, so what's done during the time period is irrelevant. So let's start out clothed to appeal to that audience, then the clothes come off.

As more of a reference to what Rich does, if I have a model who doesn't care if she goes topless, then I'm gonna have her get hit with enough pies with her top on to hopefully get that crowd, then he's going topless with enough hits to hopefully grab that crowd too.

I've been waiting to hear Candy's response to this thread for a couple of reasons...

A) Forgive my ignorance, messy sex isn't something I search the forums for, but I know Candy recently shot some epic sex scenes ( ps) gutted they've now split :whatthe) So I knew her response would come from a place of knowing how messy sex sells vs normal wam scenes.

B) I'm a huge fan girl, and love all her words of wisdom

I do think polls are slightly misleading... I also think people sometimes respond with what they'd like to do, not what they want to pay to see.

Anyways keep having messy fun! Whatever level it's at

Aw Lisa

In terms of cost and return, in my experience now having done these scenes boy/girl messy sex is just about OK as long as you can front up the initial cost and live without that for a while

Hardcore girl/girl (and boy/boy) however is cheaper and sells on a par with the boy/girl stuff so financially makes a bit more sense to stick with that.

Having said that, I really would like to film hardcore boy/girl again for the sake of store variety, because I know I at least won't lose anything and I enjoyed the creative challenge making it something with great aesthetic that the models would have fun with too. I'm not going to fall over myself to do it though and will wait til I get a good feeling again about the potential cast!

I would love to see more kink, bi men and MMF, even non-sexual/nude male interactions would be fabulous.

One of the slight flaws in the survey is it appears to assume we all like our WAM one way, and only way either only or above all others. I find my tastes are quite wide and variable: I like some of everything and it depends not just on my mood but on the various qualities in the media.

I'm pleased we have WAM porn but I mostly enjoy the Mostwam style of clothed and playful fun with high standards of production, but I love Messygirl's mix of clothes and nudity with mild sexual pay too. The focus Alan these always remains on the mess and the person(s) being made a mess of, and this really works for me.

I find nudity can be great but sometimes sex and genitalia can distract from the mess, e.g. when the work focuses too much of people's bits and less on their being gunged.

I chose "None, I prefer outfits only."

Making it overly sexual with nudity or very revealing clothing takes away from the WAM experience to me. It's distracting.

I get that these people don't want to dirty their clothes, but their clothes getting dirty makes it extra arousing for me. It adds an extra layer, increasing the gross factor. Without clothes their bodies are often (unless they are completely coated) unfailingly perfect and it makes it feel like bland mainstream porn, which I do not watch.

I've only made hardcore content, so obviously I love it. The extra cost with the models associated with it can prove the challenge, but when it works, it's super fun.

Yes! That!

I took found it really difficult to make a selection. I have bought scenes over the years that landed in each category. It's more about the appeal of the model and of the scenario. I will take a model I like in a fully clothed scene over one that does nothing for me having full sex. But I'd really enjoy the model I like going as far as she is comfortable.

Actually (confirmed by your response to gness7) I think the results of this poll - and many other polls - are entirely arbitrary and more often represent the vocal minority. Two reasons: voting is voluntary and turnouts are tiny and the questions posed are usually loaded or rhetorical.

Full On Messy Sex, Totally Nude, that involves a good amount of Foot Fetish fun! Like Amy Adams says in American Hustle, " From the Foot up, Baby!"