I *so, so, SOOOOO* don't want this thread to die.

I should start with this; I'm a guy. I came here because I'm into this kink and want to meld it with my artwork and figured going to the community of people who already enjoy this fetish made a lot of sense when looking for people to model. I also figured I'd learn a lot about myself in the conversation that I hoped would ensue from this, as well as figure out from the WAM community as a whole how I could improve the work I'm making.

What kind of spooks me (which is part of why I've been here six months and hardly posted) is the amount of creepy that I see floating around here (I also used to lurk without an account a while ago, and made a different one about two years ago that I deleted pretty fast). As some other women and men have stated here, I can't imagine being a woman on this site sometimes. You're really brave souls.

Additionally, I personally am always afraid to add to that voracious climate that so many women speak about here, despite looking for people to model. I hate the idea of this place that *should* be a safe space being ruined so often. It's honestly why kink in general on a community level is a struggle for me.

Recently (now that I have a working computer again, lol) I've been wading back into this community slowly but surely, but there's so much weird shit about it. Even things that seem like a small detail, the choice of a woman being splattered as a logo, or there not being a particular and devoted women's chat when there is one for men contributes more to what I imagine already feels unwelcoming on a systemic level, and sends a message of our gender getting put first.

There are a lot of women whom I've met just from doing my own art and talking to them that would be really interested in this fetish and community, or at the least bring a wealth of worthwhile conversation to it, but I'm always sad to see the possibility of that die. I've been fortunate enough to be in a relationship with a really open partner as far as this goes, but we've both struggled with wanting to engage kinky communities more as a whole.

I dunno, my thoughts feel really unfocused here in this post, but I'm glad this thread exists, it makes me want to engage more and stick around (ha ha ha).

Thanks everyone, especially to the women speaking up in this thread and on the forum as a whole. It's the best way for the community to improve.

Raspaint:

I feel your pain(t)

Seriously, I do understand what you are saying, and, I often imagine what it is like to be a female wishing to explore a fetish or kink on a dedicated forum (like this one)...it would seem to require thick skin...not to diminish your view point, I have to say perhaps your view of the "creepiness" here and elsewhere is a tad unrealistic or even naive....this is the Internet, and, this is a fetish/erotica forum....insofar as it deals directly or indirectly with sexual arousal and paraphilia -- and given how diverse our collective sexual educations and experiences are -- there will inevitably be a few "creepy"guys (maybe girls too), trolls, uber-perves, borderline harrassers, socially retarded jerks, and generally inappropriate attempts at contact...which the moderators try their best to weed out...Yes, even if these are the minority, they do contribute to the sub-cultural atmosphere here. (for a short period)...but it's the same everywhere...whether over the web or in person, we simply cannot police/control everyone's behavior all the time -- or vet everyone before they post a comment or send a PM (which seems to be what it would take for you to feel "comfortable" here)...It is an open forum for the most part...anyone can participate (or re-register with a different handle after a hiatus)...you just have to live with it, help out the moderators and site owner, and do your best to create a positive, fun and lively forum....and ignore, isolate/marginalize the "defectors" from the community norms/standards of "decency"....

...towards a thicker skin and more realistic expectations

In the words of one creep who shall go unnamed, this topic needs bare boobs.

A bit of a different perspective from someone who lurks but never speaks. This whole thing never crossed my mind until college when I was walking home one night and came across a few people in a fountain on campus after a formal. First I thought they seemed crazy since they were still dressed nice, then wondered later if maybe they were on to something. Hopping in the shower turns out wasn't that fun, I'm pretty sure I found this site not long after that while desperately trying to figure out how to get clumps of wet flour out of my hair while my roommate was out of town for the weekend.

Because there was a roommate to avoid I I read and learned how to leave no trace that anything had happened because who knows what she'd think or say. That carried on after college and I still stick with things that don't stain and are easy to clean up like but this is maybe a once/month thing if that. The most I ever heard was a comment about how it smelled like vanilla one time so mission accomplished I guess.

Other girls may also lurk every so often like I do but just not have anything to say. A lot of what's on here is about stuff I'm not interested in like basically anything naked. I also really don't want to get hit up by anyone creepy about meeting up or sending pictures. This is more stress relief than anything, maybe because it's completely absurd to come home from the office after a long day, not change and immediately get into a huge mess. Whatever bad or irritating things happened go away, and I swear that pudding is actually a better moisturizer than anything else. Anyway others might be out there but just not have anything to add for fear of feeling weird. I know I sort of do.

Let's get some safe spaces and trigger warnings too!

Have to agree about the site banner. Makes me cringe at the objectification.

The logo drawing? Really? Every photo or video you look at is by definition an objectification ...the umd logo is erotic art, imo, not high art, perhaps, but still art/

You may be a well-meaning sensitive male type, but I think your sensitivity (via 'objectification') is misplace here (a visual image-oriented fetish forum site), to say the very least.

The solution to creepy behaviour is not thicker skins, it's a radical improvement in male behaviour, by educating men and boys to stop seeing women as primarily sex objects, even on fetish forums. The current problems reflect the appalling state of contemporary society, where some high finance businesses still think that a lap dancing club is an acceptable place to entertain clients, and where guys from all walks of life constantly harass women in all kind of inappropriate ways. I've a female friend who does cat sitting. The other day some guy phoned her number and said "I see you do cat sitting, do you also do face sitting?" There really are no words to describe someone who'd place a call like that.

It's perfectly fine to objectify someone who has chosen and consented to be so treated, in an appropriate time and place. Watching wam videos, taking part in an intimate session, fine, the performers know what they're doing and what the content is for, objectify away. But that doesn't mean that the same people should be treated like objects if you happen to encounter one in the street - or on the Internet.

Unfortunately the levels of structural and institutional sexism in society are such that it'll probably take several generations before we achieve anything resembling actually equality.

As a male that likes other males i cop the odd weird message too its creepy as fuck so i feel for the women on umd and i don't even have a vjay jay but in saying this those type of men give the fetish a bad name just look at insta at all the creeper accounts

Not if Kittenish and I have anything to do with it! Lol! KAPOW!

But seriously, really good points DM1. Despite the fact I know people get off to my material, I don't ever feel like I'm objectifying myself. It excites me too. It's fun and kinky, and hopefully one day it will be socially acceptable for me to be a kinky liberated women, and until then ... Hmmmm how to put it politely? Oh I cant... Society can go fuck itself! Lol! The only time I've felt gross about it is when the creeps contact and dehumanize me. The best is when I respond by saying things like, "how about you start this message all over again and tell me a little about yourself. A name perhaps? Id like to know your name before you start rubbing your virtual gunge into my tits (or whatever other creative place they come up with.)" lol. I've also noticed them using my Kik account for these messages more than Umd lately. Trolls. Lol! I won't get rid of my Kik link though because I get way more lovely conversations started on it.

The have a "thicker skin" shit is def laughable. Or really sad actually. Why should I lower my standards for how people speak to me because a guy has a boner? I refuse. One time I was in a bar back home and this cute guy was always looking at me when he was there. He finally came up to talk to me and while we were talking this woman came in wearing a tiny skirt and stripper heels with her big fake beautiful boobs hanging out. She was having a great night and laughing away with her friends. Anyway, this cute guy suddenly looked really pissed off. He said all this nasty stuff about "sluts that act like that" yadda yadda yadda and a shit ton of other derogatory comments. I asked if he knew her or something. He didn't. My friend who is the bartender looked at me grinning, she already knows my opinion on douche bags like him. He was saying house sweet I am (This is back when I was a preschool teacher) When the guy went to the bathroom I asked the bartender if I could take care of this and she laughed and said yes. I proceeded to get butt naked. When he came back from the bathroom he was in total shock and I asked him "what's changed? Im still me." I asked him to play pool and he almost immediately took his pool cue and jabbed me in the breast with it. (I should say, im a regular at this bar. I played for a sports team out of it and every person in the damn place knows me.) So, cue dramatic moment of everyone watching amused for me to bite his fucking head off! Lmao! I berated him for his treatment of the "stripper chick" and the whole place was laughing at him. I don't know why I told yall all that... I guess because I honestly think that attitude towards women is fucking dangerous in general. It's guys like him that think women can "ask for bad shit to happen." So they are the ones doing the bad shit! It needs called out.

Lmao! Sorry another rambling novela. Ha!

And DM1. Im sorry about the cat sitting crap. If I know her send her my love. Or if I don't know her too actually.

With the upmost respect for all the previous posters;

I completely disagree. Heart felt condolences to he who seeks her out, gentlemen. I firmly believe that the number of women with a wam fetish is infantesamally small. You will never ever meet one, sans this forum. A handful of our fairer finest chiming in on this thread is anecdotal.

How am I so sure, you ask? Just logical speculation. There are only a few thousand wammers (I am guessing under 10,000 in the angelo sphere) and the studies done on fetishists show that the men vastly out number the women. They are unicorns. As in: even if you see one, you'll never get to ride it.

(That's Trevor Noahs joke. So funny. )

Not trying to piss on anybodys fantasy, but I worry some sad sack is actually gonna try to find a girlfriend who shares his wam fetish, waste his whole life seaching, and die a miserable, lonely death.

I would be riddled with regret, if I falied to attempt to talk some sense, to such a fellow.

I agree there aren't as many women as men. But we do exist, and certainly there are many women that are willing to explore and like it and pick up a wam "kink." Id bet many of the men here just have a lil kink for wam as opposed to full blown fetish as well. Did anyone say they are trying to find a partner solely based on wam? That would be a huge mistake in my opinion and kinda make you an asshole haha!

I knew that my respectful yet hilarious remarks would be the subject of ire. It's certainly not anyone's fault for not understanding my sense of humor, but if you cannot tell where I am making tounge in cheek statements, I can hardly be blamed.

I of course stand by my previous statement. I make no apologies for having and a opposing opinion on the matter, or making jokes about it, especially due to the fact I was so darn polite.

Wait, what happened? What are yall arguing about? Lost.

Meathook, everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion, and I agree that girls into WAM are rarer than guys, however that doesn't mean that they don't exist... and it certainly doesn't mean that a guy doesn't have the right to search for his "unicorn"... (with the exception of those who live in tyrannical dictatorships and war-torn countries) we live in a free world and if someone wishes to look for certain rare attributes in a partner that's their choice and I don't understand why you feel you would be "riddled with regret" if you failed to give advice to a stranger which that stranger doesn't want to hear... In fact I know a lot of damn stubborn b*st*rds in the world (myself included) who once we have made up our mind on a matter cannot be swayed from our chosen course... and in fact the mere attempt of someone else to change our opinion on a matter merely strengthens our resolve... which would mean that you had therefore got an outcome the exact opposite to what you intended!

So, I'm off unicorn hunting... don't bother trying to stop me!

FYI, you're allowed to say "bastards" on here without censoring yourself, seeing as this is, in fact, an adult sexual fetish forum which features things like sexual intercourse, masturbation, and many other things which certainly would be more apropos of censorship, were MM into that sort of thing...

Ooooooo!! I love Simon templars spunk! Go forth and prosper lad!!

It is interesting to see the wide variety of views regarding the popularity of WAM with female audiences. I've always been of the opinion that it wouldn't be excessively appealing to women as it interacts/interferes with their appearance.

The unfortunate state of some of modern society (due to excessive judging and body shaming) understandably leads to issues relating to self image/esteem/worth which, depending on the attitude a woman had towards wam, would only make such a fetish less appealing.

That having been said, the prominence of TV shows in the 90s/early 2000's (Nickelodeon, What Now to name a few) did broadcast the concept of getting messy via slapstick/gunge quite widely (unfortunately anything before the 90s is a bit before my time, so I can't pass comment, although I am aware that slapstick did accumulate some popularity in the 60s-80s?). Naturally the foreign nature of getting messy would of piqued the interest of many - boys and girls - in relation to the concept of experimenting with such substances.

Unfortunately, at least as far as I'm aware, the age old cliche that "boys will be messy and girls will be clean" created a stigma towards such experimentation.
Naturally that raises all kinds of points of argument regarding the interpretation of gender, in which gender itself should be irrelevant for the most part. Whether male or female, you wake up every morning and put your feet on the ground. Regardless of that fact, naturally such a stigma would create a reluctance to experiment.

Of course there is the exception of the women both actively engaging with or passively observing the forum while experimenting in their own privacy (for completely understandable reasons having read the rest of the topic), although such well established cliches and stigmas would hypothetically de-incentivise other women from such experimentation if they felt prone to judgement from the wider society.

Having read the rest of the topic, it is sad to hear that such a level of harassment exists towards any gender at all. The fact that some women feel both comfortable and confident enough to make their gender known in a fetish which, for as far as we know, is in its majority populated by men, is something which should be valued and respected. It is truly regrettable that some other men react to such knowledge with their own self interests foremost in their minds is frankly disappointing and shows just how self-centred (some sectors of) society has become. The narrow-mindedness of these individuals combined with the objectification of women hasn't done anything to remedy this problem, although it is good to see movement away from objectification in the fashion industry, although I feel as if I digress.


I feel that a good question that we should be asking is: How can we make our environment more welcoming to women interested in becoming part of the community?

A common comment in the previous pages is that as soon as it becomes public knowledge that a user is a woman, that they are preyed upon and swamped by messages asking for customs or voluntary dick pics.

I'm no IT genius, and I'm sure the forum admin (Messmaster?) is already swamped with things which need doing both here and in real life... although I do wonder whether the dick pics issue could be resolved by creating an option which allows users to choose whether they want previews of images in their private messages. Such an option may allow female users to avoid unwelcome surprises when they open their inbox.

Unfortunately tacking the general toxicness of some users is a far greater challenge which we would undoubtedly not be able to remedy with technology... not to mention it'll probably take a number of generations to tackle this self obsession with personal interest. I do wonder whether there is an option to block PM's from unknown users? Naturally this would encourage the use of the community hub/friends functionality of a user's profile and may reduce the amount of unwelcome communication from individuals of questionable repute.

What are your thoughts?



TL;DR: Popular saturation of the Children's entertainment industry with WAM elements likely developed interest in the fetish in both sexes, although cliches and stigmas likely reduced the number of women interested in experimentation with the fetish.

Having learnt about the issues and problems facing women who make their gender known in this fetish, how could we make our environment more welcoming to women entering this fetish community?

Thanks Maria... Should that not be "Live Long and Prosper" though... or did your messy lesson on accuracy of Sci-Fi quotes not have much effect

Did you also like my spunk, Maria? I hope you got the sample I sent.

Oh wow!!!!!! I fucked that up on so many levels! I honestly didn't even think about spunk being, well, SPUNK! Hhaha!!! Oops.

MessyConfetti, that is the single most sexy thing I've read in a month.

In my everyday life I rarely wear makeup and am usually dressed in jeans and tshirts I've owned for a decade. I actually had to buy a new pair of jeans yesterday because my ass ate a hole in my favorite pair and I couldn't hide it anymore haha. So those are now shorts. Anyway, what was I going to say? Oh yeah, one of my favorite parts of getting messy is putting on make up only to destroy it. Ha! Kind of a giant "fuck you" to the unrealistic beauty standards people are force fed in our society. The first time I got a professional hair cut and style in years I was giddy with anticipation of filming and destroying it that same night ha!! (Just to give some insight on one of my personal reasons for loving wam.)

Honestly I think discussions will change things. There's nothing we can do to change anything overnight. The men joining the conversation and speaking up is fabulous. I know it's made me feel more welcome and confident. I talk a big game, but would be lying if I said I haven't thought about the repercussions of opening my mouth about this. I had to though, because being quiet and just taking the shit because I was afraid having too loud of an opinion would make me unsexy and hurt my business on Umd (my only form of income on the road) made me feel crappy. There's been 3 times I considered deleting my account and store. Feeling like I was being put in box of just sit and smile and take a pie made me feel gross. I went a couple months without any wam because I didn't like the way I felt about it after having one too many people speak to me like some pie slut that existed for their enjoyment and nothing else. But luckily, Im a hard woman to keep down, so I continued wamming and loudly telling these bastards to fuck off. Haha.

I've been really open about wam with everyone in my life including family. Lucky everyone laughs and supports me. I have a huge group of women friends back home of all ages, and they all think it sounds like fun and love when I update my facebook with a photo of me in a gunge tank or in mud. It brings out the spontaneous excited child inside. Who wouldn't want to take a quiz in a gunge tank?! Who doesn't want to jump into a pool or push someone into a pool fully clothed? Who doesn't want to jump into a mud puddle?! Point them out to me and I'll tell you they are dead inside lol! Ok, so some people really hate getting messy. I don't think that's a majority though. Not in my experience anyway. Maybe im just some freak that comes from a place full of kinky freaks though. My friends back home are always asking to be in my videos. Problem is organizing a group of people in New Orleans is very difficult, unless you're having a parade. Ooooo??? Anyone have a parade video idea? Lol

(Im in the middle of nowhere for the week so Im enjoying the conversation. Keep it going! Haha)

I haven't been very active on this forum lately, but this post did catch my eye. It is nice to see an intellectual discussion on this subject! I have been lucky enough to have had multiple sploshing partners over the years. The majority of them were women that I introduced to the fetish. I have found that good partners are open to exploring each others' interests (Look up Dan Savage's "GGG").

As to the topic at hand, the last hard statistic I read on the subject was in Jesse Bering's book "Perv" where the research stated that the ratio of fetishes held by women to men was about 1 to 100. Mind you that is fetishes in general, not specifically sploshing. I would hope that any woman who had a fetish though would understand what it is like and be willing to indulge a partner's sploshing fetish. And truly "hard numbers" are hard to collect on any fetish for obvious reasons. The takeaway is that you may be surprised what the sweet little librarian or school teacher is into in her personal life.

And while I won't post names because unfortunately they would probably be harassed, there are women on this site that are just lurkers for the most part. I have personally met two women in person through this site that are the so called "unicorns" that have had this fetish since childhood. They are out there. Be polite, be respectful, don't be self-centered, treat everyone (male and female) like a human being; and you may have one appear in your life! And I know if one of these creatures magically appears you will probably be super excited and eager, that's perfectly normal; but don't be overly aggressive or you will become one of those idiots that this thread is chastising

-JD

I don't think that's weird...it's just being true to yourself rather than other people's ideas of who they want to see you with. My steady girlfriend is an awesome woman who I was not at all attracted to the first or second time we met. But we started a friendship and once I realized I had feelings I expressed them without hesitation (which in retrospect was probably a little creepy).

You know what's really weird yall? People who don't give a shit who they are with as long as they are physically attractive. No concern for feelings, emotions, intelligence, sense of humor, convictions, passions... Nada. That's what's creepy. Lol! :footinmouth:

To take that thought one step farther, sploshing isn't everything! Sex is only one part of a healthy relationship. While I have had partners who were into sploshing, the relationships didn't work out long term due to other variables.

Indeed, it's surely better to find a partner who you really work with and then in the course of being open and honest with each other tell them about WAM (with the idea that they will tell you about any fetishes they have too). Any real relationship could surely tolerate an activity where one half finds something very sexually stimulating and the other just a bit of fun. Goes without saying that if they are not into it and you're a male considering going to a paid session with a female that might take some careful explaining to get the necessary trust.

That is an interesting perspective on getting messy MyPieRogative, although it does make a lot of sense. The expectations of modern society, particularly regarding image, suffocate most expressions of individuality and foster a great degree of vanity in society as a whole.

I do applaud your decision to rebel against such stereotypes! It shows a depth of character which is sorely lacking in a lot of society. It is both unfortunate and sad than so many others merely conform to such expectations and don't try to challenge them... it's as if most of society is content to hide behind a mask of sorts - never truly expressing who they are as a person for fear of discrimination.

It's a bit like a comment that my father use to make about women putting on their "war-paint" before going out, which has always been a source of some amusement. It really is war-paint in some ways, make-up that is, since while it may enhance a person's appearance (arguably), and provide a temporary fortification of self-esteem/worth while in reality only masking their own insecurity regarding their own personal image. (I rapidly note that this does not describe all women, but rather those who do use make-up as a crutch to support their own deficiencies of self worth as developed by the expectations of modern society.)

Indeed you are right... these things aren't something that will change in a short period of time, although discussion will always prompt a greater understanding of the situation that women active in fetish environments face. The fear of repercussion regarding speaking out in this topic is sadly understandable. It paints a target on you which some individuals may use to exploit your interest in creating a better environment; a tragic reality of fostering understanding amongst random people who may have questionable intentions. It makes both your actions, and the actions of other women who have made comment in this topic, highly laudable.

Your comment regarding its sexiness and potential to damage your prospects on UMD is also interesting. The concept of being sexy itself has become heavily diluted with the concept of being physically attractive, although it is rarely used to describe mental acuity. I think you'll find that a lot of people who aren't here for a quick fix, nor take the fetish and its participants lightly, would actually find that mental acuity attractive since it identifies you as a character with more depth than an actor which satisfies their sexual fantasy. That having been said, there is still a section of society which prefers women take a muzzled, submissive position, but with the ever-strengthening stance of modern feminism, this section of society is constantly reducing through the overwhelming force feminism has become (much like image expectations for women in modern society).

Good on you for persevering though! I hate to think how many people out there treat you with such discrimination... but at the end of the day, being able to speak out as you have shows that you've got far more mental integrity than those shallow enough to treat you as a tool for their own personal gain. Definitely something to take heart in .

I'm glad to hear that you've been so open and met with such a solid base of support in expressing yourself and what you find fun. It says a great deal about those you've chosen to communicate with. It does bring out the child inside and its great since for most people, they see that inner child as a element of vulnerability in the face of modern society as a child is innocent of the adults world. Personally I may not actively endeavour to pursue messy activities, although I do see the childish fun in such activities and, with close friends, may make banter of a messy sort which in my experience has been met with equal excitement... although I am uncertain if that excitement is at the fantasy or the physical idea itself.

I don't think you're a freak at all... I think that the messy fetish itself falls under a fantasy for most people as they question both the unlikely ability to achieve their fantastical ambitions, alongside the oppression of getting messy in modern society. While game-shows have done wonders for promoting the wam fetish, it is never used as a reward or something to be endeavouring towards... but rather as a consequence for failing to out-compete your competition - hence the background theme of humiliation, something which in a society driven by personal image and ego, appears to be a very intimidating and threatening prospect.

JD_ - Yes, the intellectual element attracted me as well. Before now there wasn't much point in me passing comment on the forums since I didn't feel like there was anything I could contribute - nor did I feel awfully comfortable entering an environment where I knew that people's self-interests would most likely be used in a discriminatory way. It was refreshing to see that there are other people out there who are strong enough to speak up regardless of the intentions that others may have for them.

I'm glad to hear that you've been so successful in sharing your fetish with your partners also. It's something I've personally shied away from through my own insecurities regarding whether having such a fetish is a good thing or not. I guess revealing something like a fetish feels particularly vulnerable, especially in modern society where the choice to judge is made far more quickly than the choice to understand. Judging is far more easier after all... it takes far too much effort to try to understand something which may be a bit out of the ordinary. I may come across as having little respect for modern society, but that is not true... I see the potential of society... I'm just highly critical of its flaws. It has become far too convenient to follow convenience over the past few decades, and that in itself is a tragedy.

I'm likewise glad that there are some lurkers out there. Topics such as this one show that not every person on here is out to discriminate them which I hope would be slightly reassuring.

I don't think that's weird at all Jason_K416 - if anything it shows that you've got a greater appreciation for what constitutes attractiveness than a lot of other men out there who use their second brain far more than their first - often to their detriment. As mentioned earlier in this post in reply to MyPieRogative, sexy has become synonymous with physical appearance rather than with character. Personally I passionately disagree with the whole concept of what constitutes "sexy" in the modern context. While at high school, I was constantly pestered by my peers to tell them what I found "hot" and "not hot" and it always perplexed me since they'd be sitting there getting their jollies off the picture of a model, and the only thing I could think was "and who are they as a person? What makes them remotely attractive?". For me, character is just as, if not more important than physical appearance. Character shall remain eternal... but physical appearance... give them a couple of decades and everything you found attractive will have changed significantly. Ageing can be unfriendly to some people, and for example, if you're infatuated with someone because of their hairstyle... I betcha bottom dollar that after a decade, it likely won't be the same as it was originally.

I suppose in summary, liking a person purely based on their physical appearance expresses your cohesion with the vanity which rules modern society... and as far as that goes, you will reap the rewards of your vanity. In that respect Jason, you're probably far more desirable as a man than the majority of other men out there... at least to women who have more depth than looking for a large packet, chiselled abs, cheekbones cut with godly definition and lest we forget a well defined buttocks.

But, Jason, you'd enjoy it too much!

Norman

How dare you disregard my most perfect advice!

Yeah, I'm just fucking around mate. I don't care what you or anybody else does. I just like making exaggerated, dramatic statements cause it funny to me.

Apologies if it came off trolly. I was just stating my thought, and making wise cracks about my civic duty to save you all from from yourselves. Not actually trying to do that.