Hi
I have been reading this thread with interest and I have to say I am not really surprised. Over the years I have seen some appalling behaviour on quite regular sites such as poetry and health condition sites, much worse than here. We need to regulate ourselves as there is only so much site admin can do. I have never used a female persona on this site but I did use a female avatar on a poetry site to see if some female characters I had written were judged in the same way. No pms were sent and I explained after a short period. What I did learn was women are treated less respectfully? Repetition and pestering message, dismissed opinions etc.
I think we should all take responsibility for our own behaviours and we need to consider the equality of communication. It is fine for one person to share information if they wish but if they do so under false premises there is no equality only manipulation. Only adults can join this site so is adult behaviour too much to expect.
Pretending to be a different gender is a problem if it is used to manipulate. Women have good reason for concern. Perhaps some people here should rethink their approach. Is that really too much to ask?

My take from this:

People have been pretending to be other genders on the internet for gain since it started, this is nothing new and will never stop. I have had some very awful conversations with folks pretending to be something else. I will bet that there are some female profiles on here are actually men seeing what they can make happen.

Sharing accounts is fine as long as folks are open an honest about who is talking. It also may be necessary for businesses. Putting this in the bio should be automatic, announcing who is speaking in all correspondences should be standard practice.

If you are are a different person than the profile suggests, and you don't tell the person contacting you from the start, that is immoral.

If you are reading/wringing on behalf of someone else, but do not tell the person you are talking to (e.g. pretend to be the other person) and you are reading sensitive information without disclosing what is happening, that is deceitful.

If you stand to gain by being deceitful, e.g. monetarily, arousal, information etc, then it is catfishing and illegal.

If you are found out, you have no moral leg to stand on, especially if you offer only excuses and no apologies.

Anger in finding out you have been deceived is 100% valid. It is a betrayal. It is a violation. Any victim of this is very much in the right to want answers/clarification and demand them. If the perpetrator does not give them, then it's safe to assume to worse of them.

I hope folks are more open in future about their correspondence.

The more I think about this situation and reading the responses from folks, the more I wonder if what happened would be considered impersonation. That is where I get hung up though. If everything that Dazuk has said is true and if everything happened exactly as he said it did. The place I get hung up is would there be a difference between what Dazuk did for Chantelle and what interpreters do for deaf people or for foreign language speakers? The difference that screams out in my mind is that with interpreters, you know they have them and know that things are being translated.

I am then reminded of the clip from a GREAT TV show where a news anchor is interviewing a Japanese scientist in relation to a nuclear reactor situation. The interpreter for the gentleman did not know that the anchor spoke fluent Japanese and knew that the scientist was being misrepresented. The anchor then started conducting the interview in Japanese informing the scientist he was being misrepresented. Much to the shock and dismay of the interpreter.

The difference here is that we only have one side of the story. We have no clue if Dazuk was accurately translating for Chantelle or even if Chantelle is aware of the conversations that have happened in her name and on her behalf.

I hope we get an update soon from someone that can make contact with the real Chantelle. Be it a video, phone call etc. I think she deserves a chance to tell her side of the story and either confirm or deny things.

Ding Ding Ding!

I made a reply, and then I deleted it because I didn't feel like getting too involved in this conversation. But this community is important to me and these conversations are really important for us to have, so I came back. Now, I'm not here to diminish anyone's feelings or opinions, I'm not trying to condone any actions OR make any accusations without full knowledge. I am strictly trying to offer some insight into the adult industry as I've experienced it.

I understand why FloraFrench is upset. I've said it before, in adult work transparency is very important. A model should always know who they're interacting with. The level of vulnerability is really high and honesty and trust is intrinsic to a model's comfort and safety. The big blaring fact is that we don't have Chantelle's side of the story, so we really don't know how much she has been involved.

In the adult industry, a male producer acting as his models is a long running issue in this landscape. It's been happening for a long time. There are also models who have been trafficked into doing this by an abusive boyfriend or pimp and the boyfriend or pimp is the one who is acting as the model in order to have complete control of the money they make and the person they're trafficking. Which is a big reason why this kind of behavior needs to be addressed and stopped. I'm not accusing dazuk of this. I don't know dazuk and haven't interacted with Chantelle either, so I'm not comparing this issue to trafficking.

HOWEVER, the Internet changed everything in the adult industry. Now models are able to be more independent and can actually make more money for themselves and interact with their fans. And the Internet opened viewership and accessibility up to a GLOBAL platform, which means much more followers. So it's not uncommon for successful models to hire other people to answer their messages *as them* in order to keep up with it. Obviously no one is going to engage with their assistant, so this is the only solution that works for them at the moment. They usually have hundreds of thousands of followers, possibly millions, on multiple platforms and are constantly busy filming. So it's just the only way these models can maintain the level of success that they achieve. The model is very involved. They are always dictating, reviewing, checking in, and following up personally with their messages *when they have time.* And most of them only have someone do it for an hour when they're busy and then the model takes it back over when they're free. I understand if this is shocking and feels violating, I don't really feel great about it. But I cannot fault these women for doing everything they can to maintain a living wage in an industry as dangerous and unprotected as ours. This is a brutal fucking industry. We have the highest risks physically, financially, and legally. Those are high stakes that can cause huge losses. Models get abused and exploited badly and marginalized and I'm not going to judge them for how they have to survive this landscape. Sometimes a witness to the people you're interacting with can be important since adult performers are higher targets for violence, assault, and murder.

The other thing I want to bring up, is how this problem relates to the threat that AI will be to this community. Anyone can pretend to be someone they're not and its going to be problematic to control the more realistic it becomes. No one is going to be talking to who they think they are, so I don't see how AI can be more useful than abusive. And of course real women like myself can't compare or live up to the standard of the kind of perfection AI can produce.

So these are just some points I wanted to add to the conversation. I wanted to give some perspective and some insights here that I hope can help us gain more understanding and compassion with each other. Hope everyone has a better day

this is the kind of shit that really irks me off.

because I have needed actual HELP getting videos up---help with my vidown to get videos up and I havent been able to do so because I have not been allowed to have anyone else have access to my account. Which? Is great that MM is looking out for me!

I would never have anyone else answer my messages or talk to my customers. Ever.
I would never even have them write my video explanations....but? There are days when I have really, and still really, need help with all this but because of situations where people are using other people (as he said, he was behind all of it and she was just the model)

So? Even the explanations of the video were not truly her words...which kinda takes away from it.

anyhoo! Chantelle was not very nice to me but, I hope she has a happy retirement.

and I really hope that one day people will just post on their walls the honest truth.
Like, "hey, this isnt chantelle answering messages but if you want her to? Here is how you can reach her" or whatever. So that maybe people like me can actually get some help I desperately need to keep uploading in my stores going.
Life happens all the damn time and I swear to God I would gladly pay someone just to get things UP.
I would send them the description and let them atleast help me get caught up.

anyway. thats my rant.

If I find my way to essex? I would love to film at your mud spot! That would be a dream come true!!!
Great work from you!

also: question: so? If she is computer illiterate? Was it you that messaged me and told me I needed to stop cursing on the forums? And told me that we were in "direct competition" with eachother and how poorly it looked on me to use the "f" word and that I needed to act with more class----? or was that her? lol.....for the record....I told her that I speak how I want to speak and that I am in no way, shape or form competing with anyone here. I am inspired...I am enjoying and I am loving my fetish my own way

unless you already knew that.

Jayce, until we hear otherwise, I would assume everything came from fucking Dazuk. At this point, I am not even sure Chantelle knew what was being said and done in her name.

So... Is this site not as "cool" as I thought? Because I'm reading between the lines on several fellow users and there's definitely yet more drama and bullshit behind the scenes EVERYWHERE. Lately this sort of stuff has been popping up more and more, should I be concerned or is this business as usual and I'm only noticing now? I don't even go looking for this sort of news. It's all some sneaky two faced garbage, people will do anything they THINK they can get away with. Not here for that.

No this community is really good. Drama, like in all communites does happen and does pop up on the forums but UMD is a very safe place. To paraphrase 40k, Messmaster is like the Emperor of Mankind.

Gods damn, he is kinda like that isn't he. The chaos realm gets into everything seemingly.

This^. Until we hear from MM and/or Chantelle, we can only assume Daz is the acting user on what was her account. *shrugs*

Nah, this site is fine. Wherever there are large gatherings of people, you can expect the occasional drunken idiot who needs some course correction or the boot depending on the severity of the offense. Percentage wise, considering our size, the level is quite low in comparison. It just needs some refinement in some areas but this is par for the course when you have a magnitude of individuals in a single place. Someone will step on someone's toes at some point

I don't think we are going to hear from MM about this. He has long since stopped replying to this thread and is just letting things lie. I figured we would have had an update by now. At this point I highly doubt that he has any reliable way to get a hold of her. I don't think anyone active on this site has ever talked to Chantelle in person. I think this situation is just another lesson learned at the expense of others.

I am not sure that any of the things that make sense in today's technology when it comes to moderating a site will be done. Hell I have been in chatrooms in the mid 2000's that had better communication with mods. I was a member of a chatroom site where the owner of the site talked on the phone with each mod before they were allowed to be a mod. The head mod had monthly phone calls with the mods discussing various things and basic check ins. It is obvious none of that kind of thing happens here.

Which to me is problematic, especially if you consider the fact that Chantelle STILL has "Wam Patrol" tagged on her profile which brings up more questions than it answers. I thought her Mod privileges have been pulled.

There isn't a single "mod on / mod off" setting. As MM explained it to me there are a whole bunch of different "powers" that users can be given which enables them to do various things beyond what an ordinary user can do, but they're all different. Most mods as I understand it have the same powers, esp move / edit / delete posts, but there are other folk like the people running the various groups who have powers there but not over the entire site.

The profile tags are just cosmetic and can be given to anyone. To see who actually has moderator powers, look at their profile, if they're a mod it will say "Moderator" under their name.

Example: Mine (has mod status): https://umd.net/dungeonmasterone
Chantelle's (no longer a mod): https://umd.net/wamchantelle

Maybe ask people she has worked with-like Brooke Madison or something. I'd like to know bc the way "she" talked to me? While she was a moderator? Was appalling.

Also: you stated in the beginning since you filmed all the scenes that they were "yours"

Ummmm.if that was the case then I wouldn't be missing HUNDREDS of videos of Ariel that I filmed, under my roof, with my people.

Are you allowed to keep these videos to sell that were filmed by you? Bc that would interest me greatly.

The way it usually works is:

When someone films something, the copyright belongs to the person operating the camera, UNLESS they were doing so as a job for someone else, in which case the copyright belongs to the person who paid them to film. So for instance, I film a scene, copyright is mine. CNN send a camerawoman to film a story, copyright belongs to CNN, not the camera operator.

BUT: Before a scene featuring a recognisable individual model can be sold, that model has to have signed a model release giving the producer of the scene permission to use their image commercially. No model release, no commercial use, regardless of copyright status.

That's why UMD requires that we all have signed model releases for every scene we shoot.

To sell anything, you need model release and the copyright, though the latter isn't usually an issue.

Okay, so I've put Chantelle's account into legacy mode, which means it's dormant and can't be used anymore. I've been trying to contact her but haven't gotten a response. Apparently she appointed Dazuk to help her with the account long ago, but at some point he ended up running the entire thing and we don't know exactly how or when that transition went down.

Some accounts are run as businesses, and that is acceptable even if the name of the business is a single female name. Relationships also change, so an account that was once run by a single person may now be run by multiple people or somebody else. The only time this is a problem is if we feel deliberately misled.

Everybody gave Dazuk the chance to explain things, but he would get defensive instead, even with me over inbox. Now he isn't responding at all, so his account will also go into legacy mode, at least until I can have a real talk with him. Ultimately this is on Chantelle. Everybody is responsible for their own account even if they gave their password to someone else. And if the original verified account holder is no longer reachable, the account needs to be shut down as per the TOS.

Our community has been very mature about this. Thank you! I think this is one of the only places where people actually speak in full sentences during a heated exchange and bring up real points, popular or not I want to respond to some things inline....


Mods can't see others' inbox messages or private info. Any user can potentially be made a mod, so restricting that info eliminates potential beaches of privacy. Mods also can't take action on their own ish, and if there was any fraud going on between accounts I'd see it because I personally review and dispatch every flag that comes through. We also have tons of logs and layers of notes to review if we need to.


I don't really have a problem with the idea of a moderator account being run by a couple as a team, but the particular way they handled this doesn't sit well with me.


Shady people come from everywhere and it's not our community's fault. We actually have a policy against that behavior unlike other sites, and we work together to enforce it. Think about it: This place is so peaceful that merely finding out that one account was potentially being run by someone else is a major thing!


And females with their profiles set to male! Nobody thinks of that but it's definitely a thing. UMD's raw user base is still nearly 50% female.


There's no rule against multiple people running an account. There are a lot of accounts here run by multiple people. So long as you're not deliberately misleading people in any way you're good.


No, there is not drama and bullshit "everywhere." The few times a year that somebody acts out of pocket, we deal with it and move on. And it always has to do with some outside relationship or business dealing that has nothing to do with this site or its community. I don't know why it's so popular to diagnose the problem as endemic to the site when it's clearly not. If a guy using a female account is too much drama then you might as well quit all social media because other sites don't even have a policy against it!


I'm right here I understand that it can get frustrating waiting for an update but I ask for your patience. Meanwhile you can ask me directly if you have a question, but otherwise you should know that I am working constantly on the backend. I may we waiting for one party to get back to me, I might be trying to mediate between people, I might be offloading an account or handling legacy subscriptions or settling payouts or dealing with a family emergency or doing any number of things.


Huh? We do a ton of moderating, including dealing with today's technology. Look at the entire synthetic tagging/flagging system I just put in. Very little of the moderation is shown publicly because we want to keep it wammy and peaceful, but it's a lot of work man.


Nothing is stopping you from communicating with a mod.


No, the moderators here are not employees or even affiliates so I don't treat them like that. They are volunteer community members who can do things like move posts and adjust gender tagging, yet have no obligations to do anything. I'm the only one running this show otherwise, so mods are an integral part of the community being able to run itself precisely because they ARE the community.


It's just a display tag that I can add to any user account but it doesn't have any power associated with it. Some non-mods have the tag. That said, her tag has since been removed as her whole account is in Legacy now. Like I said before, off-boarding is a process. If you have any doubts or questions, please just ask.

The whole point of my comment is that it appears you have people acting as moderators that you have never talked to on the phone. The only communication has been through emails or chats. You have no way of knowing who is running the account with moderator privileges who are supposed to be trusted by the community.

A phone conversation would not have prevented this situation or stopped Chantelle from having someone else run her account. And I'm not going to periodically call up UMD users just to check that they're really them. I do as much due diligence as I reasonably can, but phone checking people isn't on the menu. I've never asked you to trust anyone; Everybody should still use common sense and caution when dealing with any user, including moderators.

So maybe you can help and clarify what access and abilities a moderator has? It seems to be that we all might have a misunderstanding of what a Mod can and cannot do and their abilities closely mirror yours. Maybe if we all heard it from the horses mouth, some might be a lil less nervy about the whole scenario.

Thank you for asking! Every user account on UMD has around a dozen different abilities that I can switch on or off. They range from being able to move/delete forum posts, to being able to update the gender tag on photos, to moderating chat, to editing wiki entries. Switching on any one of these abilities (or having you host a Group) technically designates you as a "moderator" here.

Once you're a mod you can see flags as they come in (they're still anonymous) so that you even know there's something to moderate. Mods can see my notes after flags have been dispatched. There is an informational layer where mods can see internal notes, but we don't put private info there. Mods can also see and approve any pending pics if they want.

All of this is still on the end-user layer. I have an entirely separate backend that I live on, as well as several other layers of internal notes and logs that nobody else can access.

I'm not sure what "moderator" means on other sites, but here mods don't have access to sensitive information, inboxes, or financials. So there is no paperwork or background checks or zoom calls involved; I occasionally designate someone a mod if they've been here a long time flagging stuff and seem to understand the vibe. People and situations change tho, so we just roll with the punches.

In the rest of the internet a moderator is someone who is supposed to be trusted by the site owner. We now know that dazuk acting as Chantelle was not the case. We also now know that there is nothing stopping a mod from letting people use their accounts and that practice is acceptable. We also know that moderators do not carry an increased level of trust from the community as you have stated. Thank you for clearing all of this up.

Chantelle did have my trust as do all of my mods, but the trust was violated. I didn't knowingly let a person I don't trust have mod abilities.
Complex things happened in her relationship that's not our business nor any of our fault, we don't like how it was handled, and now we're washing our hands of all of it.


I'm not sure why you're twisting my words. I've said, "It's not feasible to try and enforce a single-user policy for every account, but it makes sense to require it for moderator accounts." This account sharing has never been an issue before, but I have learned from it and now a new rule is being worked into the TOS.


Don't forget it was my trust that was violated, too. If you disagree with UMD's onboarding policies then I'm sorry but that doesn't mean I operate with a complete lack of trust. You can see who I trust, and you can decide for yourself what that means to you.

In my experience i have dealt with both Chantelle & Darren & could easily tell who i was dealing with & knew i was'nt talking to Chantelle when Darren was replying.
Darren has bent over backwards to help me achieve the custom shoot i wanted with a wedding dress i sent them & i dont know what he is being criticised on here for now he & Chantelle have gone separate ways.

This debate that he pretends to be Chantelle is total bollocks as he has always talked to me as Darren & people are just getting cheesed off they can't talk to the model. In this case Chantelle.
In my opinion the model should have someone to talk on her behalf anyway as it protects them from being abused & customers saying inappropriate things & in my experience Darren has not once posed as Chantelle & think the accusations on here are ridiculous.

Widgy

Is Chantelle as computer illiterate as Darren made her out to be? This has nothing to do with wanting to talk to a model. This has to do with someone impersonating another user, namely a moderator on the forums. That has been the only issue from the start of this. He outright owned that he allowed people to think they were dealing with one person when in reality it was a team effort. Also that there was no way of knowing when it was really Chantelle as she is computer illiterate according to him.

I am glad that this is a learning experience for everyone thank you!

I am sure your experience has been great. I am happy it was! Truly! I am sure there are many others who can say the same. This isn't about that. It is about the lack of transparency to the extent that even the site owner didn't know who he brought on board as a mod. If you don't see the potential problem there, then I honestly can't help you


Has nothing to do with it. People break up all the time. Again, it's people not knowing who they are dealing with. If it is one person. fine. If it is a group of people, fine. There needs to be some communication of who you are talking to. Even in most RP forums it is required that you disclose your alts to prevent this confusion.



Yeah, considering one of the leading complaints in this thread is from a model (Flora) who found out just a few short days ago that she was talking to Daz this whole time, I can assure you that is totally false. Again, and I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand, a simple header at the top of the profile stating that it is a couple's acct would have removed any confusion from the field of play.



I don't disagree with this. Yes, female models have to endure shit most men on here will never fully understand nor encapsulate. It makes sense. Simple solution is state that Messages can be answered by more than one party on their profile. My gripe isn't that Daz was using her account. My gripe isn't even that he was answering messages on her behalf. My gripe is he was using her account, no one knew about it and a model disclosed personal details about herself that she never would to a male producer exposing a huge breach in trust. THAT is the problem.