Have been watching how the scene has been gradually changing over the years and wondered how people thought WAM had evolved. Films seem to be a lot more raunchy and erotic now compared to the old days of Slapstick Clothed WAM of days gone by. Has this changed in your own sessions as well ? Do you push the boundaries further ?

When we first started our films with Dunk Tank Babes and then Gunge Tank Babes the emphasis was on the outfits, the games and the humour. We'd never of dreamt of nudity in our early days and I look back and wonder what actually changed for films to demand that ? Maybe things will go full circle back to this style of WAM but equally do you think it will go further extreme with more sexual scenes ?

www.thegungeshop.com

I totally agree with your point of view, and I have to say that I don't like it at all!!

I do apreciate a woman being undressed to her undies in order to get further humiliation, but never sex (I've never bought a wam video with sex in it)...

I can understand it, but I'm not in at all!!

Don't think I'll ever be able to get aroused again until we Slapstick Stuff gets Breana on the fucking machine.

I also prefer clothed WAM actually. Ruining / messing up clothes makes it extra sexy. Although having messy naked sex is definitely nice as well

I think the main influence on things getting more erotic has been the fact that this site/forum has become the "go-to" place for all things wam.

If someone wants to find others who are also into seeing other people get wet/messy/pied/slimed, etc., this is where they ultimately end up. Even if their interests are more based on fun or humor, this community does have an adult/erotic tinge to it (with several members so sexually into it that they just can't even conceive of the notion that anybody else could like pie throwing/gungings/mess/etc for non-erotic purposes)

And even those that do get turned on by it may get turned off if it goes beyond a certain point.

Speaking personally, i love the humor, i love the corny jokes and set-ups. I love seeing guys get wet or pied/slimed in any type of clothing be in a three piece suit or a swimsuit. But once you get to full nudity and/or sexual acts/body fluids, i'm out. I have no desire to see that. It's not appealing anymore.

I think for those of us that grew up on those old Nickelodeon shows, out of necessity it's grown more erotic, right? Only as an adult now do I see how sexual some of that stuff could be taken out of context.

Case in point: anyone remember the Wall O' Stuff on WWYD? Some poor schmo would pick a door to open and get blasted in the face with a jet of liquid whipped cream. I mean, what does that look like now?? And is it weird that I fantasize about getting blasted in the face and also between the legs? Or better yet, seeing a young lady get that treatment? How messed up is that? (Pun intended)

It's a combo of a few factors:
1) All the "PG" and "non-sexual" WAM communities have basically disappeared over the last decade. TellyGunge is still around, I guess, but that barely counts as a forum. The UMD isn't just the biggest game in town but the ONLY game in town.
2) MM obviously wanted to keep the UMD going (and profitable), so that meant loosening restrictions to allow for more explicit content and banner ads. (Believe it or not, at one point the UMD didn't allow male genitalia on here... much less blow jobs and actual penetration.) That prompted an increase in sexual content from some producers, along with an influx of true porn as well.

I've always advocated for a "non-sexual" part of the forum, or at least something not XXX-rated. Certainly, if we can filter posts for "trans" content, we could do the same for "non-sexual." But this idea was always shot down, and by now it's a little late to get the horse back in the barn. The UMD is basically 95% sexual content now, with only a little content that falls under the PG banner, and those who were turned off by this change left years ago.

FWIW, TheWamStore and its related WAM portal have always had a non-nude listing section. It's been there for about 12 years now, and currently has 45 stores listed. (just under half the WAM listings) On any given day, about 1/3 of our traffic comes from the portal system, so I know a lot of people are aware of it.

http://wam-mart.com/

This response merits not just a "love" but also a hearty rousing standing ovation!
Best assessment of current situation and how we got here!
Seriously, if there was some kind of Hall of Fame for forum posts, this would be in it.

I think things have got more hardcore in two ways - more nudity and sexual acts, but also the interplay between models seems to have got a bit 'harder' too - less giggling and more calling each other a 'fucking bitch' or similar between pie hits.

I consume my fair share of content with nudity and sexual antics - far more than I did ten years ago - but also cherish the sites like mostwam and slapstickstuff that have kept things PG-rated. The sweet-spot for me is a heavy dose of messy slapstick, mixed with a bit of fun nudity (of the "whoops, there goes my dress" variety), and I hope the scene is always able to support a good few producers whose movies are just as silly as they are sexy.

We have been Fully Clothed from day one and continue to be so.

The past year has in fact been our most successful so far, there is still a huge appetite for Fully Clothed WAM.
Perhaps we are the ones benefitting from other producers doing less of it?

We have no plans at all to produce less fully clothed media.

I don't think the fetish itself has 'evolved' per se, or that individual's tastes have changed..I think it's just that WAM has got more mainstream.

I think perhaps it is a little bit like music. When a new genre starts, initially you have the purists who like the genre for what it is, in its pure un-compromised form. Then, over time, people who make a living from music and who will chameleon-like adapt to new styles, will take the catchiest bits of the genre, but add lots of pop elements so that those who might be intrigued, or like the milder elements of the style, will buy it.

In my day growing up this happened with house music, and oh the lamenting from House purists, as records that were essentially pop but with a few house elements tacked on smashed it in the charts, while pure House remained a minority thing.

As UMD has got more popular and brought in people who like all kinds of porn, and can get into girls using wam stuff, as long as the girls are traditionally hot and there's nudity and/or sex, there's loads more of that content which, inevitably will dominate.

But that's cool..UMD is a broad church..and anyone who likes fcw is not going to wake up one day and want naked wam sex. That's as likely as me becoming gay by watching a scene with men in it.

I have been here since before 1998 and I am not even sure I have a WAM fetish per se. I have an embarrassment and humiliation fetish, & WAM is a conduit to that. That's why personally, whether there are clothes or not is almost immaterial, except, as said above, when losing clothes adds to the humiliation. WAM sex doesn't float my particular boat, but as a producer I have enjoyed filming some of those scenes too, for the creative variety.

I think all those who prefer WAM in its more innocent original form are still here (I don't just mean the same specific people getting older..I mean there will always be people whose preference is FCW) it's just that UMD now caters to the widest possible audience.

Just to echo what Leon said..to my surprise my FULLY CLOTHED WAM store has been a real success, and that did shock me..but again as Leon intimates..perhaps because there are so few Fully Clothed stores, it's less difficult to make your scene stand out when there are so few of you in the market.

I have added more Fully Clothed Shoots to my upcoming schedule, & as Leon & Rich thankfully show no signs of going anywhere either, the two sides of WAM can peacefully co-exist

I've only ever shot fully clothed wam, and it continues to sell, while I'm not going to be giving up the day job, as my equipment and skills have improved I've seen a steady growth in demand. Yes, there's a lot more nude and hardcore stuff out there than there used to be but as I've no interest in that side of things I just ignore it, it has no direct impact on me. I'll carry on shooting fully clothed WAM for as long as I have models who enjoy doing it and customers who want to buy it.

I suppose I have pushed my own boundaries a bit but not by going sexier, rather by doing customs, and even a couple of sessions, and adding male-female scenes on the Imperatrix Domina store.

If anything the thing I notice most in the forums here is the baffling number of threads that appear about TV shows where people get very mildly gunged or pied, and yet seem to generate vast amounts of traffic and posts. The clips usually show a girl getting a single pie in the face, usually very gently applied, and her outfit pretty much stays clean. Were a WAM producer to shoot the same scene the girl would probably get a dozen pies, be made to sit on a really gooey cake, have her dress filled with a gallon of custard and then be made to run through a waist-deep mud-pond. Now to me that would be worth watching, but the weak TV pieings at times seem to totally dominate the forum. But then presumably like the nude stuff, there is an appeal in those scenes that I just don't get, so fair enough to those who love them.

But no, I've no issues with the nude and sexy and hardcore stuff being there, on an adult fetish forum you pretty much expect that kind of thing. I'm guessing the reason the various other forums and hangouts that used to exist and don't any more have gone is largely that running something like that is a major time-drain, and if there's no financial reward for doing so, eventually the operators lose interest. With FetLife, the UMD, and the other major WAM / Wetlook forums pretty much covering everything, there isn't really the need for independents any more. Also, people who would once have just put up free photosets of their partners getting wet or messy can now sell the same scenes as videos in the download stores.

The technology has changed massively too of course. I can remember when 20 to 30 photos was a complete photoset, and cost $25 plus postage. Now it's the free preview for a scene that will have 600 photos and half and hour of Full-HD video.

I know that being a producer and the main person in your store to wam...you see a transformation over the years in my stuff and ppl who have come to me since day one I was here for customs?
they have transformed too! either to more hardcore humiliation if that was their thing, or more and more mess or wanting to see more erotic.
I know I have gotten to where I see wam as a more sexual thing for me...I still get a really AWESOME feeling though, shooting fully clothed, slapstick stuff. not just anyone can pull that off and make it good and I'm attempting to put more of it in the store...
since a lot of us girls live on customs though...we put out what we have been "customed" to do...and the vast majority of men are asking for hardcore nowadays.
which hey, I love it....I have really grown into my fetish sexually so I truly enjoy it but I do know that I also love the clothed, fun side of it as well and I am wanting to do more slapstick. ariel and myself and even Dixie...are actually really good at it....seeing what we ad lib and come up with is a hoot for me and I looooove it.
but yeah, ive seen models on here like me, mudbunny, jilly, all have kinda morphed into more of a sexual side of our kinks....(I don't watch jillys stuff...shes my REAL sister so...gross...I just know) and I think its great...if we can have a good level of 50/50 content id be happy with that but the wam game is changing. it has become a "trend" in the hipster and hippee community. honestly. I have talked to ppl and its a new sex trend that is really blowing up! but, its a sex trend...not a slapstick trend...so, understandably the newbs on here come looking for the sex in it. I get it. I love sex and wam too!

But that's a holdover from the early days of the fetish, up through the 90s. Back then I was FAR more interested in mainstream clips, as the handful of producer scenes had high production values (for the time), but were mostly on the sexual/erotic side. (Splosh had some British-style humor, and "Ariel's Pie Shop" was famously the only major production with real comic timing, but those were the exceptions.)

By contrast, discovering the WAM community introduced me to a HUGE amount of mainstream clips I'd either never seen, or only seen once as a kid and never again. Granted, you had to pay to see them back then (we were still YEARS away from YouTube), but between Hurley and WAMTEC, there was a pretty solid collection. (And also 15 different copies of "The Great Race"....)

Of course, over the last 20 years, the amount of producers has exploded, and a lot of us have tried to emulate mainstream clips (minus the budget) with various degrees of success. At the same time, broadcast TV has basically abandoned any and all messy scenes, to the point that diehards are now scouring obscure shows in Peru and Bolivia for any new content. But I guess the appeal of mainstream clips is still powerful. My reasoning why:
1) Mainstream clips are FREE.
2) Production values are uniformly better.
3) Targets are more "unaware" than your typical WAM model.
4) Clips are FREE.
5) There's a level of plot, backstory, and motivation you don't get from most producer clips.
6) They're FREE.
7) A younger crowd is just now discovering great vintage clips like, um, "The Great Race."
8) Did I mention FREE???

We have evolved into more erotic wam shoots, but we still do the style of shoots we did when we started 20 years ago, with non nude or clothed to basic nudity. Over the years, we listened to what our fans wanted to see, and produced it. Not meaning to brag, but because we opened our minds to other wam styles, I like to think we have the best variety of wam out there. Variety is a good thing.

I used to collect TV show clips back in the day too, but with a few exceptions (notably The Crystal Maze, which produced some truly astounding girls-in-trousers wetlook) the vast majority were at best OK - you saw the mess and if lucky got to see full-height while it was happening, but there was little or no aftermath, and often the person getting gunged didn't actually get completely covered. Even before I knew there was anyone else out there into messy clothed girls I always wanted to set up some messy sessions and film them "properly", where we got to see everything, unlike the TV versions.


LOL! I first saw The Great Race when I was about four, awesome film and hilariously funny, but the famous pie scene doesn't work for me because I don't like Natalie Wood's outfit during that scene.


Aha - that probably depends on which production values any given viewer considers to be important. Back in the day there was a show on TV called "Bob's Your Uncle", which featured Bob Monkhouse, then a really popular TV personality, guiding two newlywed couples through a series of games with the winning couple getting a big prize.

Early on in each episode they had "The Love Boats", where each couple got into small dingies, with holes in, in a swimming pool. They were asked questions and every time they got one wrong another member of their wedding party had to join them in the sinking boat - first party to sink or capsize lost the game. This was all done with everyone dressed in full wedding finery, so there would be plenty of women in really smart formal outfits getting into the water-filled boats and sitting down. Sounds like the ultimate wetlook show? Unfortunately just as the newest addition was about to lower her smart skirt-clad bottom into the water, the editors would cut away to Bob telling a joke, and only cut back after the lady had fully sat down with her skirt now underwater. I don't care if it's free, shows edited like that used to make me want to put a brick through the TV screen. To me at least it doesn't matter how good the production values are, if they cut out the money shots, I'd rather have slightly lower production value content that actually shows what I want to see. I wonder if I'm different from the wam mainstream in this?


Not sure if you forgot to include it but I suppose possibly being FREE appeals to some people?

I've put a lot of backstory into my sites overall, though how much makes it into any given scene will vary, but by and large I'm not fussed about whether someone is unaware or not - I've always tended to fantasise about people who actively want to get gunged and enjoy it, so I prefer them knowing what's coming and looking forward to it. This is also why my models are usually wearing swimsuits or bikinis under their clothes instead of normal underwear - the idea is that they know, and want, exactly what is coming, and have dressed accordingly, kind of committed themselves to getting drenched even when they are still clean and dry. Our model Veronica is a good example - she genuinely likes getting messy in real life, so absolutely threw herself at the chance to shoot here when we were first put in touch by a mutual friend. So she's not remotely unaware, rather she knows exactly what having custard poured into her clothes feels like, and actively looks forward to it happening each time.

Just to apologise to Dungeon Master One and any other fully clothed producers I missed out.

I was writing at pace before going to work and just put down who instantly came to mind. No offence meant at all.

The fourth time I ever had sex, there was chocolate syrup involved. So, in one sense, it hasn't really evolved because it pretty much started out sexual for me... but in another, I've become open to a lot more erotic activity because of it, exploring lots of other fetishes in conjunction with my WAM.

couldn't agree more...it seems though....if you produce more of the "erotic" stuff that ppl looking for slapstick don't come looking at your stuff as much bc they don't expect it. I have been trying to make ppl understand that the house of mess is anything goes! bc i really don't want to have to make another store just for my slapstick stuff...
but, it seems like that IS the way to go...i probably wont do it bc anyone who is subscribed to me, knows that we have a large variety in the house...but...i mean, i know that we could make more money by separating the slapstick from the erotic in two different stores...i DO know that. you all have done an awesome job of that so that ppl don't have to scroll through scenes...i wish we could take one store and have CATEGORIES for videos like you go to one store aka the house of mess and you have a slapstick category, a scripted wam category, cosplay category, bondage category, toys and dildo use category, joi category, ya dee dah....i think that would be a really cool thing! i know m.m. has enough on his plate but i think it would help with bandwidth of having a bunch of different STORES and having one that is categorized!
you all have done a really good job of giving a good variety for sure!

Even if erotic, WAM should be playful at least a bit...

I guess some of the appeal of TV wam is the uncertainty, will the person you want to see get it, get it? How badly? How will they react? The fact that the ones that got away are still talked about says something. For a producer, paying a model for a scene where they stay clean is rare - from the gameshow style productions, messymayhem do have one escape clean in part of an episode but they'll be gunged in the next part. There was a Top Gunge when Jazz came so close to staying clean in the gunge booth game, it was a great scene as it didn't follow the normal pattern and no-one expected it to go that way.

I do enjoy the sillier scenes, it's not just about stimulation but entertainment too, someone could probably write a dissertation on the way things have evolved!

Jayce - categories in stores sounds a good idea, even just generalised grouping would help - there's a lot of scenes out there so it can be hard to find the pies from the cream!

Oh and modern editing on TV can be infuriating - just because you have several cameras you don't have to use them all every minute!

For me there are multiple aspects of wam that appeal to me which is partly why there is so much variation in what I film.

The first messy fetish site I came across was a humiliation based site which really turned me on. Sex doesn't make or break a humiliation scene for me, it's more about the idea of the model being punished or tricked or covered in something gross.

One of my biggest kinks is clothes destruction which naturally goes well with wam. Again that is more about the clothes and the substances than any sexual acts.

Then there is the sensual aspect of wam which for me has recently become my favorite part. the physical sensation of different substances on my skin and in my hair is very erotic and turns me on. And it's about 1000 times better with a partner so obviously I'd prefer that lead to sex. I do like watching videos of other people having messy sex because I know how good it feels.

IME non-nude videos get pirated more often so while I like doing them knowing they are just going to get ripped off is disappointing. If people like the fun slapstick and non-nude wam then support the people who make that content and don't just jerk off to free previews. When certain types of videos become unprofitable producers will stop making them.

As others, like Rich, have accurately described, back in the day, WAM related content - specifically in terms of its use for sexual gratification - often remained somewhat ambiguous, even on UMD. At least it was never really talked about in so many words. I distinctly remember a post here on the UMD about 10-15 years ago phrased something like: "Do you masturbate to WAM?" -as if this might not be at all an obvious motive!

Well, we still talk about some things like this. I mean, I'M willing to say, "Yes, I masturbate to Bea Arthur!" But I feel like a lot of UMDers are still in the closet on that one.

Many good/great point made in this thread (Leomoonmin, MM, Rich, Trouso)...and thanks Soundguy for pointing out that clothed wam has plenty of offerings still

I will just note a couple of things:

The nudity and sex factor here on the umd (not counting the nude wam content on private list servs and user groups back in the day) happened with the advent (and widespread adoption) of broadband around May/June of 2005 (or '06?)....prior to that one could post a purely humor-based slapstick video (with pretty girls, yes) and it could stand on its own (even as it appealed to the pure fetish crowd)...that "niche" has largely (not entirely) disappeared since then.

As for sex/nudity in wam...insofar as wam is mostly a fetish (a surrogate source of erotic/sexual arousal) or paraphilia (as the pros call it)...it is distinct from nudity (as a source of arousal), since we consider sexual arousal via nudity (or whichever sex you prefer) to be "normal", conventional...but this is not always the case either; consider paintings of nudes in museums (which are "artworks", though I'm sure some folks find them sexual; not me though)....

...but as a fetish, the addition of sex or sexual imagery in not necessary for many (and that will likely not change as long as there are fetishes in the world)....i suspect that the demand for wam and sex is a consequence of "convergence" of all aspects of the sex drive (as we age) ...but maybe also folks whose erotic imaginations need a regular boost (the strength of the fetish response is weakened over time)...just a theory

Some good answers on this point. I like both sexual and non sexual, I actually find scenes with no nudity at all can be erotic and my kink is the destruction of a very pretty, smartly dressed girl with pies and other food. She always has to be nicely dressed, and I like formal looking outfits, such as office suits, wedding reception type outfits etc, and she must always be fully made up and definitely always wear high heels, and stockings - sorry I don't like tights.

The kind of "oh no, she looks gorgeous, surely theyre not going to trash her" feeling you get when the girl comes into the scene, with a huge amount of pies on hand, ready to destroy her!

Another of my kinks is clothes destruction, so in a nude scene, I like the already trashed outfit to be ripped off the girl, leaving her in just suspender belt and heels

For me, WAM has always been erotic.

But I do dearly miss MessyFun, Messy-Online and LightSpeedImages. More artsy-type stuff in this club would be wonderful!

WAM has always been on an erotic level. The more PG/slapstick style of it is what I've always preferred but my tastes are just as broad for the erotic end of the WAM spectrum.

It's always been on an erotic level for me ever since I first saw "Unreal TV" in 2000. I usually prefer some semi-nudity or nudity over fcw where there's no stripping.

I would also like to see more art put back into WAM like there was on Messyfun and Wamtec where there is good lighting and some nice incidental music interspersed with the original sound.

I'm going to be working more on lighting and music with the future WAM clips that I upload onto here.