I know this has been discussed before......
But lately there seem to be more & more posts by producers advertising old videos.

Yes - I realise new members may find links to videos they didn't know about - but it feels like it's getting worse & surely there's another way to achieve this?

I am interested in discussions and new material - and all these great new posts are more & more hidden among the repeat adverts.

I have blocked several users from my viewing profile as they only advertise repeat material, but there are some that I don't block as they may release new stuff I'd miss if I filtered them.

Ideally I'd like to be able to browse a forum that had fewer or no adverts to repeat material. Maybe that's not possible. Maybe someone out there has an idea to improve this?

I'm happy to be shouted down on this if the general opinion is that the Status Quo is fine. I voted to Remain after all & lost that one too.

I'll shut up now

Eric

P.S. Big shout out to all the producers who don't repeatedly advertise their old stuff - you know who you are & I thank you all.

Yeah, I'd like to know how to block seeing regurgitated video advertising/posts too.

Yes, I am bored with the repeated postings of old material, especially when it's disguised as new material. (Yeah, I'm looking at you, Lenny.) I've been complaining about it for years but it continues. I don't lose sleep over it, though. Just folks trying to make a buck in a niche market. At least now the word "vintage" in the post alerts me to a last ditch monetization attempt and I can quickly move on.

Que sera, sera.

As I read this, I see an ad on the side for 'Hotwam Time Machine'. I must say this is the way to do it RIGHT! If you are a producer and wishing to promote older material, why not set up a different store for it? That way people will know right away that it is older material. It might be a way to solve the problem. Perhaps a rule that 'normal' advertising must be for new scenes (with a time limit) and 'vintage' must point to a different store, or at least have the word 'vintage' in the title.

The rule has always been that unless there is a substantial change to it (like being completely remastered from the original source in a significantly higher resolution or a very major and permanent price cut) material should only ever be promoted in the forums once. After that, paid for advertising should be used. Though as a user I utterly hate how VIP mode hides the ads - the forum is much more fun to browse with an ever-changing display of wet and messy people down the side. And given VIP members are probably more likely to buy stuff than anyone else, hiding informative ads from them seems bonkers to me.

Yep, seems to be the case in the terms of service:

'Please do not create new forum threads for a product you've already plugged before.'

So technically if it bothers you that much you could report the post I suppose?

I have noticed some producers seem to get around that by removing videos from the site then re-posting them.

How did you block people? I've been wishing I could do that on this site for years and never got a response from MM when I asked how to block people who were harassing me

Okay Leila but tomorrow you might feel differently about having a bunch of little baby Regises!

When have I ever done that ? I haven't advertised anything old as new as far as I can recall. The last time I posted about any videos, they were all new. I know I may mention what the few releases were beforehand in the post and often include them in the sale. Whats more I might post once a week here if not less so how would this be cluttering up the forum ? Click on my profiles "user posts" and see for yourself.

Personally, I don't have a big problem with a producer who does two posts for a video, but there are some producers who regularly post pictures from an upcoming video before it is released. Then they make another post when the video is released in their own (non-UMD store). A third post when it is available in the producer's UMD store. A fourth post when it becomes available as part of the producer's streaming service. The order of these steps sometimes varies, but any way you slice it, there are definitely a number of major producers doing as many as four posts on the same video material within the space of a month or two. That's a bit much, and surely a violation of the term of service quoted above. I guess that is just not something that there's any routine enforcement of on this forum.

If you have an issue with certain posts then please report them, then MM and admin can look at them. Also think the OP has used the forum filter, as there is no block. To filter certain users click the x that appears next to whoever started the post

I've always thought Status Quo were fine. Not great, but they do a job...

I try and show clearly what is a new film and what is an old film by using the words NEW
and Vintage in the title.
I used to have a website but now only have a UMD store so it's been a huge job to transfer the films from the old site to the UMD store.
In addition I get emails every week asking for films that people have lost or remembered from the early days that were long gone from the website.
After a lot of searching and rallying round I've been able to locate those films and add them as soon as is possible.
I've probably got about 150 left to get into the UMD store.
All this takes loads of time.
On a weekly basis the sales I make have a higher proportion of the Vintage films and Vintage bundles than new stuff so it's evident there is a demand for them.
Would you rather not have a larger choice of material and for those not around 10 years ago should they not have the chance to buy material?
It's soul destroying to be spending hours downloading films from an old drive,uploading them,doing descriptions etc because one person has asked you to find them and then that person buys it and I get about £4 back but I'll do it as good customer service and to give others chance to buy it over time.
Here's the big thing though as a producer these days.
The weekly sales figures these days on a great week where I'm top store or second are about equal to what I used to sell PER FILM!
It's totally different these days,the income is much lower despite over time me having much more to sell in the store.
It's so bad I had to dump my website and go with the UMD instead.
It's so bad I can't afford (and Mike see's no point in paying for it and losing money) to make a new film.
So I only make customs and do sessions that can be sold on.
I used to make 5/6 films a week with loads of different girls!
When we are launching new films such as the burlesque one which is a great film,the length of a tv programme with a nice outfit,nice set and quality pies plus includes other fetishes and cost a lot for the customer who ordered the session you'd think we'd sell a lot wouldn't you?
We don't though and I've never done this before but I'll tell you-we've sold 11 in a 75% off sale.
After fees to UMD,PP etc that means that film has returned me about £40 in clip sales.
So if I'd have paid for that film I'd have lost hundreds of pounds and I'm one of the top sellers on here.
2700 people have watched the free trailer though!
So why bother?
The great side of my business is customs and sessions because now know they'll get a great product and that's only because I've been established for a while.
If I was starting up now there would no point financially.
The income from the sessions/customs/clip sales from a stock of hundreds of films keeps me going although doesn't cover my living expenses (so thank God I have Mike these days).
Most girls have a day job as well as doing the modelling.
So although you may want new material all the time you need to look at the bigger picture of the efforts made by producers (many who lose money/make little because it's their fetish) when they make new stuff and also the fact that having the availability of older films,some lost for 8 years in my case,is a luxury and not a burden for the consumer.
Just think how many new enthusiastic models appear each year on here who has suddenly 'discovered WAM and love it',promising the world,cheap customs etc and are lucky to still be here a few months later
It's because they can't sustain the costs of producing against income (plus they might finish with the male whose fetish is behind it all-ha!ha!).
Also there is the piracy problem.
I won't mention the name of the main pirate site in order to not publicise them but they are the main killer in this business.
Hours of my time are wasting playing 'whack a mole' in getting films stolen from my store removed from said sites.
1000 views on a pirate site means I've had $5000 stolen from me.
When that same film sells only 10-15 clips in the store how do you think that makes me feel about this business?
So I'll be continuing to transfer my older films into the UMD Store in exactly the way and using the system Messmaster wants me to use for promotion until there is no demand for my products anymore.
If you want a UMD,funded by clip sales commission and advertising then buying clips is the only way it will survive.
Jessie x

Jeez. I know Jessie's talked about the disappointing cost-effectiveness of new films before, but I didn't know things were this bad. It's sobering to think these are the economics of WAM in 2018.

If you think that 1,000 views on a piracy site is 1,000 lost sales then you're only kidding yourself. It's a level playing field, all producers have the same problems with those sites.

Lots of producers are still making top quality new material and are doing well for themselves.

If your old content still sells better than new stuff then at a guess that means your new stuff is lower quality. 2,700 views of a trailer and only 11 purchases confirms that almost everyone doesn't like what you're making.

Most people don't want a sob story to go with the clips they're wanking to.

Producers come and go, the good ones go from strength to strength and the not so good ones attempt to recycle old content.

I don't want to go too off topic but Jessie brings up a a bunch of good points not just about wam but digital content production in general. 5 years ago when I didn't even know what I was doing any video I produced sold great so I could pretty much shoot any wam content I wanted and make my money back and usually make a decent profit too. Quality wise those videos were not great so it's not like that was the reason people were buying those.

Over a year ago I had to switch my business model to just solely shooting custom wam videos because once I started finding my videos being pirated guess what, my sales dropped so much I would have been losing money if I kept producing non-customs. Recently I went back to occasionally filming things that are not customs because I missed doing wam for fun but I have to limit those types of shoots.

And anyone who thinks piracy doesn't effect sales is just living in a delusional world. The most successful producer I know (a more mainstream fetish not wam) has a dedicated full time assistant who searches for pirated content to get it removed. If you produce good content and it's available for free people won't buy it. If you produce good content and it's only available for 5-$15 per download or $15 per month for a membership site people will pay for it.

While some people do it in an annoying way (and I don't mean you Jessie, I get why it makes sense for you to post your older videos) the reality is every producer is trying fund their business and you need a back catalog of older videos selling to be able to produce new content. I don't like the way the forum gets crowded by some spammers on here but posting older content is not in and of itself spamming the forum. I think it depends how the person is doing it.

Good points in the last few replies, but it's true certain sites are just bleeding producers dry.
Why would any producer, that produces wam content less frequently, want to create anything new, in the knowledge that it would appear on another site in a matter of days?

That being said, it is a problem encountered by many, but not everyone bangs on about their old stuff. If you're constantly plugging old material, and making next to nothing on it, then it's clear that it's not reaching audiences you desire.

Call it what you will, but we are all entitled to opinion here, and that is mine.

Firstly for those who haven't realised this person has been a member of UMD for 3 hours at the time of me writing this.
Don't know who it is but I'd like to thank for illustrating exactly what the problem is for producers.
There are thousands of little turds like this person who happily think theft is now an acceptable everyday feature of the internet and we should accept it.
They also try and turn the lesser sales onto the producer.
Typically as well they also talk like complete idiots.
These are the people who message models all day long saying how they are our 'biggest fan' and love our work -yet their username doesn't show a purchase of any of our films.
Then after telling you what sexual act they would like to do/demanding you to make their type of fetish video next/volunteering to go a gunge tank etc etc they turn nasty when you don't play along.
You know I avoided the thread the other week taking about etiquette-it was too painful to get involved because of the years of abuse I've had since I started modelling but this thread is about business so I'm going to tell it how it is.
It's a typical disrespectful attitude to refer to any factual information as a sob story when it touches a nerve.
It's not a sob story,it's explaining what is happening.
It's the subject that is discussed more than any other in the Store Owners Forum.
I can tell you now the producers who top the sales boards like Mostwam,Jayne,Ariel me,Candy etc etc etc are all in that discussion.
Some actually have/have had an employee whose sole job it is has been to try and remove pirated material.
That's not acceptable to me.
It never will be.
I don't care if that makes me unpopular with the scrotes who are stealing films.
I've actually seen people discuss myself and Jayce on these sites saying we are hard to
find for free because we are superfast and have certain systems and teams in place to spot piracy!
It's so blatant!
So a question for our newest member?
You obviously think I'm a not so good producer despite me being in the top sales figures most weeks and consistently providing customs/sessions every month and earning decent money on them that I'm transparent to the customer about-and this all without going nude or topless.
So based on your expert knowledge (and bear in mind every time I'm top of the sales board with all my not so good old films and my not so good new films) I know the figure all the other producers have done less that week-who are the LOTS of producers making new stuff and doing well for themselves?
Also define 'doing well for themselves'.
Jessie

Exactly Leila-that's exactly the difference between now and 5 years ago.
10 years ago it was even better.
I wish I had Mike then,who knows exactly how to run business's etc
Matt and I were clueless and thought we'd won the lottery due to the amount of money coming in (no nudity then either!) and didn't plan well.
It's only because of Mike I get a decent income from Messy Jessie now as he was able to look at this business from the outside and point out what did and didn't earn money.
The best thing though is he has organised my time better so it's less days and hours a week which is turn makes me healthier and happier.
The idiot who has posted after creating a UMD profile is probably one of the 50 or so people over the last two years we have stopped dealing with.
At least now I'm in this business for a minimal time a month earning good money PER HOUR and free to be a good mother and partner and enjoy life with Mike.
This is why I don't need to give a sob story just facts about the business!
It's lovely doing business on my terms!
Keep going Leila-you do a great job!

I agree with you here!
I've seen that too and then one particular producer bumps his threads a lot too.
I'll be very honest and say what I do!
I promote the scene on UMD once (the UMD system only allows one promo)
I sometimes pay for adverts as well.
If the scene has mess and wet look in it I'll post separately on the Wetlook forum with a link explaining what wetlook content is in there.
I'll do bundles now and and again to offer great value and great sales.
That is all discussed and accepted by Messmaster.
The only other thing I sometimes do is pop up a photo/photos of a session or making a film that day-that is me just thinking people would like to see a photo of that days mess and me being nice as often the scene will never be for sale or won't be in the store for ages.

Amen to the comments about piracy. It's still a huge problem across all sorts of creative industries and has in turn generated an irritating repertoire of unsubstantiated claims about how people seeing stuff for free generates more money in the long term - which are mostly to rationalise stealing, or shills designed to steer public opinion away from meaningful anti-piracy actions.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned which is also a problem on the music scene is getting undercut by amateurs. Somebody putting stuff out for free in the first place can be really, really destructive to professionals. Is this an issue for WAM producers?

It always cracks me up when Brits refer to ads as "adverts" because it makes me think of perverts.

You can't see because it's the internet but I'm snickering at the advertising perverts right now!

Yes I signed up a few hours ago, what of it?

I didn't say that i think piracy is acceptable, I just pointed out that 1,000 views on a piracy site is not 1,000 lost sales.

There's no need to start calling names and being rude.

Memberships are streaming are the future.

Good producers don't get all shouty shouty in a self entitled way like you are. Good producers have realised the best way to deal with piracy is to have someone on thier team who does exactly that. Good producers produce new content.

You're not hard to find on piracy sites and neither is Joyce or any of the other producers you mentioned. Sure you're not on pornhub et al but those sites are nothing.

If you're always at the top of sales board, what's the big deal?

I have absolutely NO problem with producers advertising their content, new or old. Is it really that much of an inconvenience? I've been frequenting the forum regularly for years and it's not uncommon to come across older content that I haven't seen before. There are also some producers that no longer have certain videos available, so if they repost something, I'm glad to hear about it. All in all, we are such a small, niche community, so if any producer out there is willing to spend their time, money, and resources on creating content, I support them trying to get the word out. If I'm not interested in something, I just scroll past it.

Thanks for pointing our our rule on double posting. Yes, each scene can only be advertised in the forum only once, unless the scene is appearing in a new store, or the content has been substantially changed, edited, etc. Really old content is okay as long as it hasn't been plugged here yet. It's been our policy like forever. If you see someone posting about old stuff or bumping an old post, please help me out by taking a second to report it and it will be removed.

I won't show ads to VIP's because that's like a cable company move. Remember when paying for cable was supposed to give you the luxury of not having commercials? Besides, it's only a couple hundred people out of tens of thousands. I think we can afford to not flash ads a few times a day for paying members


That is not a workaround and a producer caught doing it on purpose will be gagged. There have been a couple of incidents this last year that turned out to be happening for other reasons, and I worked with the producers to resolve the issues. I know of no UMD producer who purposely pulls (or has pulled) content only to re-post it. Just to set the record straight.


This was in May and I did check on the situation. You told me you were leaving the site in a tizzy and didn't ask how to block anyone, so I left it at that. I really should have followed to you anyway. But the answer is that I can gag anyone's inbox if I know about it and have deemed that they've harassed you. Every inbox message and comment you get has a Report link that shoots a message directly to my admin, and permanently notates the user's account, and puts a serious negative on the user's UMD score as well. Please contact me now if you have issues with any user. I am building a user blocking system that will be available in the coming months.


UMD keeps track of when our own vids get advertised in the forum, and it lets the producers know in several places on the backend whether a scene has been plugged before. But actual enforcement really comes from people flagging the posts. Plugging a scene once for your site, then again when it comes to UMD (or vice versa) is okay. But not when it appears on your streaming site.

Can we please keep this thread civil as I don't want to lock it. There are some different opinions going on, so let's listen to what we are each trying to say.

Messmaster

Dear Mr Visting -or may I call you Just?,

"You're not hard to find on piracy sites and neither is Joyce or any of the other producers you mentioned. Sure you're not on pornhub et al but those sites are nothing."

You do realise in one badly written sentence you've just vindicated EVERYTHING my beautiful brave little Jessica has said and just admitted you are a prime example of the sort of prize person ruining the WAM business dor everyone.
Having said that I did enjoy your witty Morecambe and Wise reference to 'the play wot I wrote' with
"Good producers don't get all shouty shouty in a self entitled way like you are"

Now you mention it I do remember at 'good producer' school they did say don't get Shouty Shouty when writing down words that are read not spoken.
I now know you must be one of the problem people like that Mark Lomas who threatened Candy who I've told to go away before as your writing style is VERY familiar.
Obviously you'll delete this account soon or Messmaster will have to ban you/cross reference your ISP for confirming you use pirate sites etc
So for now I'll just thank you for being the stooge that was needed to confirm the piracy problem before you disappear!

lots of love
Mike

and Perverts advertising?

I'm waiting for Jayce to realise not only is this guy finding her stolen material on pirate sites but he thinks she's called Joyce!

Ruh-roh