Hi

Following on from my last post good to see so many members agreeing that some behaviour is questionable at best.

Do we need to get better at calling out this behaviour.

If we did this would women, models etc stay longer and more importantly feel safer. Would the forums become more chatty like they used to be and less a string of adverts.

Not saying it would stop the behaviour of some. It may limit it but would show it was being called out and not tolerated or ignored by the community.

We could discuss and decide as a community what we are willing to accept. Every woman that joins getting friend requests from the same 10 people the moment they join. Creepy but ok they can accept or refuse. People posting pics of random twitch users that have been pied or messy events not at a kink club or pics with people in that do not know they are on kink site wrong etc.

We have some rules and Mess MasterMistress do their best. Lets help them out and police grey areas as a community, highlight call out discuss bad behaviour. Out kink is fun light hearted and this should be a much more fun place than it is rather than the beach from Eurotrip.

I honestly think we have a good community at discussion and calling out bad behaviour, and looking at both sides. It's why I have stayed on this forum for so long.

Unfortunately the majority of creepy behaviour towards women on her is done over chat or DMs, where it is (rightfully) private. It is those kind of events that scare folks away e.g. flooding of inboxes the moment a woman appears and says hello.

As for drawing a line on the what is acceptable, that is never going to happen due to a spectrum of ideals. Obviously there are some things we all agree is ok or not ok (downright harassment or bigoty for two), but the grey areas/middle ground are much harder to agree on and thus police.

We have the block button, and can unfriend. We have to trust folks are going to use them appropriately. We can't really say "only women can friend" a la Bumble as that will mean (more) men will just create female profiles.

As for posting non-kink mess, that has been a staple since this forum began. No more Noel's House Party which many UK folks on here grew up with. It's very different to your last post where doing something without consent compared to 'found erotica'. Again, a grey area.

I like the idea and would love this to be a friendly, welcoming place, and on the whole it is. But there will always be creeps because it's sex-driven, anonymous and pretty much consequence free on here. I don't think more rules will ever change that.

Very balanced and true. I do think we could call something's out sooner.

I am sure we have all seen things on here and eye rolls for thought really. Maybe we voice that

Checks on people who post thousands of comments etc in a couple of months.

I don't know. I just thing a few creators etc have told us when leaving they do other content and the creeps here are the worst they have seen.


I am just opening up the discussion I guess. Who knows maybe having a thread here that shows we know there is an issue and at least discussed how to make it better will be a start?

I think some if stems from a lot of fantasy in peoples heads and these scenes/visuals that we only dreamed of are coming to reality and they forget that it's not a fantasy its actually someone doing this and they forget the social norms and they just think with their "horny" and not with their head.
Still doesn't excuse it, but I think they get so fixated on some aspect of WAM they lose sight of it.
Almost like a porn addiction of sorts.

It's hard to improve without having specifics to cite. My heart breaks when I see users take down their stuff because I suspect someone (or several someones) drove them to do it through too many bad experiences.

The Internet grants a lot of anonymity, even with the ID verification system MM has put in place. And people will still be creepy in DMs, pirate videos, etc. It's not a new phenomenon. What can we do to address it?

Maybe I'm naive, but I think education sometimes gets overlooked in favor of shunning. If someone is being skeevy, maybe sometimes they're so desperate to fulfill their fantasy that they don't realize they're crossing a line. Maybe we can make things better if we say publicly, "Hey, friend, here's why what you said is unsettling, but here's how to do better next time." It's less calling it out and more about correcting the behavior.

And then when people are repeat offenders or clearly have no interest in improving, then we can drive them out of town.

There's also the Report/Flag button, including one for a vibe check, and I have the sense MM takes those seriously. Maybe we can get better at being public and acknowledging when we've fixed problems, too? People always see roadways under construction and are frustrated by the traffic, but you rarely see a sign that says, "Highway work finished," you know?

How do we do that? No idea. I'm not sure how you assess such a thing. You can't really release a quarterly "Hot Fix" update with users you've educated/shamed. I'm not in favor of a wall of shame for banned users, either.

This is kind of what I think.

Is the kink a bit like the lord of the flies island.

Because there is so few woman openly here do men forget how to talk to them and are running wild.

A high proportion of the women here also have a form of financial gain so might way up calling people out versus the bottom line.

Bratty tried a few times to tell us what was happening and how lines were crossed, so did other content creators saying our kink was worse than others the DM behaviour was worse than others.

It just always seems to be the internet is the internet, creeps will be creeps. Surely if we have more than our fair share which I genuinely believe we do the least we can do is try and be better as a community

I think there are some lovely ppl but the amount of creepers can sometimes feel overwhelming. As a woman on this site, I often feel that a lot of the men here forget that I am here because I am a wammer. Not creating wam content for the male gaze. Women get spoken to like something for mens consumption and not as a fellow enjoyer of mess. Who ever would dream I'd be here for myself?!! Even things that seem silly little things such as men telling women if we should be clothes or not during wam and their personal preference . Eff off, we'll do what we prefer! It's only some one else's business if they're buying a custom, otherwise why do men feel compelled to message us their personal likes or dislikes? I never asked. I also have it clearly on my page that I don't want to meet or have fap chats but my inbox is full of men who just ignore that.

I MASSIVELY DISAGREE that we are good at calling it out.

There is a photo currently up on a users page which shows some one in stocks,messy, outside of Sainsburys. Captioned 'charity' (quote marks included)- implying its exactly what the other thread discusses about how wrong it is to use charity as a guise to involve unknowing ppl in kink. I just looked- 350+ views on that photo! Only myself commented to challenge it?!? So tell me we are good as a community . That photo is either the user themself using charity as a guise or posting an actual charity event on a kink site without the consent of the ppl in the photo. Both are wrong imo. Yes things 'in the wild' end up here, esp tv game shows but if you're on tv you know that will be viewed by thousands etc- outside sainsburies doing something for charity you don't expect the same widespread viewing or to end up in fetish forums. Insta is esp bad for this and I have called out countless ppl for reposting messy pics with kids in!!

The DMs here are worse than fetlife and thats saying something. Much to ppls surprise my most reasonable and friendly messages come from OF and I assume its because ppl don't want to be blocked after having paid.

I stay here because I like scrolling the content but also the lack of women, poc and also plus women makes me want to be representation so if other ladies like me join at least they have some one relatable among the bombardment of men who message. A handful are nice messages.

I also worry that because there's so few women, men make themselves quite vulnerable as its so much harder for you to have messy meet ups- esp without paying. I have been given way to much personal info by some - 'Hi I'm NAME, AGE, based in LOCATION' do you want to meet?

I would like to see outcomes of reports. Like on insta it says if the content/account was removes or the 'this doesn't go against community guidelines' message I may not agree that guidelines haven't been broken but at least I got a follow up.

For example, on here I reported some one who commented on a couples post, to involve their kids in the mess - that user will probs see this. I blocked them but I know they're still on the site and that makes me lose faith in whether or not anything actually happened. Something to say the user was spoken to would make me feel a whole lot better but right now, I am unsure why I stay when often my enjoyment is killed by seeing things like that.

In all walks of life, the behaviour/action of the minority often spoils things for the majority. In all cases, the minority should be banned/excluded, with the result shown to all users. That way, it must surely instill confidence for the majority to continue in this lovely pleasure we all enjoy. I for one would be gutted if Violet (and others) left our community for the sake of negative action from a minority miscreant.

The default should always be to be as good as we can be.
Absolutely the community is smaller because of our collective negative behaviour.
Absolutely people have been put in situations against their will because of actions here.

It'll always be hard to police and there will always be bad actors. We should still try to minimize harm.



A relatively easy example of one way we could act differently:

Those who make content are great. We'd be fucked in all the wrong ways without them. At some point, many people want to remove the liability of being in porn from their lives.

It is up to us to help or hinder that. It is understandable to want to remember former models and search for missing content you never got. Should the community support posts about or containing images of people who clearly no longer want this fetish content public?

I don't think we should. What's the difference between someone not consenting to something and no longer consenting to something? Nothing!

I'm sure many people will get bogged down by what is legal and not. Of course you can legally talk about past models and I'm sure when models post to the internet they know it'll probably be there forever.

If you were to ask yourself: 'Would they want me to post about them?' do you think they would say yes? Why would you want to do something that you know will make someone uncomfortable or put them at risk? Why shouldn't we try to minimize this regardless to whether or not we are forced to?

cute.as.duck I totally agree. I know the things I have put online will be there long after I'm dead and I must accept tht. I must also accept the possibility of a colleague or my partners parents possibly finding it.
I think anyone who thinks they can leave an internet community and be forgotten/erased is naive - HOWEVER- my morality would not allow me to repost them unless they express said 'I am leaving but enjoy what I have left behind' kind of thing.


As for the footnote re CuriousPaints - I intentionally didn't name them as I don't want to cause anyone to go and look them up and maybe send some nasty messages. Also, I did not get a reply to my report. I checked my inbox before publicly saying this- maybe I accidentally deleted it but I don't delete any messages on purpose. I also reported the image I mentioned outside Sainsburies but perhaps its too soon to have been reviewed. I will report again and see if the button is actually working for me - still.350+ views and no one else said anything? Are ppl DMing challenges to iffy content or just keeping quiet as I suspect?

Probably yes from my experience. I'll keep it short, as after my mauling for what was a small error on my part when I joined (avatar related), I don't particularly want to engage too much in here.

It ruined it for me before I even got started. Guys... don't bother messaging me. Thank you for all the correspondence, but the initial experience killed the UMD for me. I'm just here for images and ideas now.

Some guys are very persistent in the PM's. I just ignore them.
One member was particularly rough on me in an early post that that ended this trip before it started.
The fact that no mod stepped in to help the newbie said a lot straight off the bat.

I have met up since with a couple of people for Messy fun (no, not through Fetlife for those who keep asking). I found them elsewhere in a community for fetishes that was a lot more forgiving and welcoming.

That was my experience

Random thought (prompted by Lucy as a PRIME example):

I would guess that 90% of the bad behaviour is from men aimed at women, often when they become the Schrodinger's Woman who is both a "slut" and "frigid" because they don't want to sleep with said man...So, these ideas are ONLY aimed at this kind of behaviour...

1. Have it so men can't message women who they are not friends with, but can 'poke' if they want a conversation/open a dialogue. I.e. treat it as Bumble/dating site rules. This would stop a lot of

2. If someone have messaged you (either way) you can upvote or downvote them if you please. Not a visible score as could cause more agro, but if the score drops to a certain level then the mods could look at what this person is doing or saying.

3. Remove Gender altogether, including who you are looking for. Then people can stay quiet until a relationship has formed and then let people know. You can still write it in your bio or put up a picture if you wish, but it's not immediately recognisable. This would stop the Thirsters from dog-pilling new members (like Lucy) and combined with #2, cut down on boilerplate messengers.

Haha! I am a transparent bitch! And I don't have a bottom line to worry about, so I do think there is truth to what you say! Thank you for listening and understanding me-I notice the good and give credit , where credit is due!

Most of the worst behaviour appears to go on in direct messaging. Public abusers don't tend to last five minutes before they're reported and, if necessary, banned.

I wonder if the ability to use direct messaging ought to be an 'earned' privilege for new and or unverified users? All users should, of course, be able to DM moderators and the site owner for administrative purposes - but maybe you've got to have some reciprocal 'skin in the game' to be able to chit-chat privately, as an equal, with everyone else, who are also, subject to a very strict code of conduct - upon pain of having this privilege removed, thus, either temporarily or permanently?

I'd support some kind of initial restriction on private messaging, and perhaps more controls available to individuals on who they can receive private messages from.

Agree on this

Agree on this too.

What about limiting to verified users like we do with x rated posts? This way information is available on record and could be pulled by (hopefully with a legal investigation / warrant) by law enforcement?

The trouble with this on its own is that it's too easy and fast to get around (It doesn't work on dating sites, does it?!).

Public posts and visible posts on timelines could be allowed. But if it takes time and some commitment to be eventually established enough to communicate privately it would take care of at least the 'casual', low level, pestering.

Sorry to be cynical but if people are being hassled to the point of closing down their accounts then the site owner and/or moderators are not doing their jobs properly? Yes, I understand it is our communal duty to report off colour materials and persistent and unwanted behaviour from the tiny minority. However, it doesn't sound to me like any of this is being taken seriously and hence the thread. How do you like them apples, as my young relations like to say! Perhaps I am wrong in this summation?

Also, I think the chat box should be removed completely. It is outdated, outmoded and other things starting with 'out'. Basically I don't think it is fit for purpose anymore. That also goes for 'Hangout' too. Does anyone use that either? Sorry, I know what you must be thinking, but if you can't be bothered to write a nice letter to a fellow member then you shouldn't be chatting! I have some great 'pen pals' here on UMD and we have some great fun exchanging ideas both WAM and non-WAM.

I guess I am just from a different era and would prefer to be licking stamps and sticking them on the envelopes to the people with whom I write. I did say I was a dinosaur

T x

I think you are wrong. The admins and mods can't watch people's private DM's, it all happens after the event if someone gives them permission. And the moment a woman appears, she gets inundated with emails. There is NOTHING the admins and mods can do about it...at the moment. But I am sure they do take it seriously, unless you have proof otherwise?

As for the chatbox and hangout, I think they are ok. I have used them and seems to serve a purpose; quick talking with one person of your choice, or a group of randoms.

I would love to offer solutions to this but its hard because let's be honest I may feel a bit uncomfortable knowing it's going on but its not happening to me. We need to listen to those it is happening to, really listen and let them tell us what might make it better. There have been some great suggestions I particularly like the one about not asking for old content.

I will also say I think it's great this conversation is happening so civilly and openly, there is hope. Although I do worry women commenting on this thread may be giving people an excuse to DM them. Saw what you said great point etc but no interaction with the thread.

Small steps though, we can make it better I am sure. Listen, dont ignore and think.

A logical and measured response. I am one of those women who had had DMs from ppl who are referencing this thread but haven't commented. The cynic in me does wonder if its an excuse to DM a woman or separate themselves from the men we r discussing on tis thread . Or is it anxiety inducing to say something publicly - I just don't know. I will always respond to messages that are respectful but I still have my guard up. Often ppl start respectful and quickly devolve

Speaking only from a technical standpoint, it sounds like the easiest thing to do with the greatest impact would be to have profiles set up with chat and DM off with the option to turn them on with filters for friends only kind of thing. Sounds like most of the harassment issues are coming from the chat and DM's and with the default being those are turned off maybe that will limit the "shock factor" for new commers.

That would be helpful.
We all seem fixated on DMs and yes, they feel like the biggest issue but this whole thread was actually prompted by ppl on UMD posting 'wam for charity' stuff. I have not looked at the pic today so I don't know if its still up or if orhers commented but I commented on a pic calling it out for either being of some one who doesn't know they're on a fetish site or the user themselves posting their own pic of wam for charity.= using charity to trick ppl into engaging in their kink. It had 350+ views and only I had called it out. There is often stuff in plain sight that ppl just scroll by.

Further to my last comment- I just checked and the pic was deleted and re-uploaded with a person on the side cut out.. but its still a person in stocks, in public, same caption of 'charity'. I don't know if mods spoke to this person but on the other thread I was told mods respond to all reports well I reported the initial post and didn't hear back. Lets see what happens when I report again .
Also- the new post now has over 200 views . Only PieMaster1980 has commented and called it out.

Some one want to tell me again that we are good at calling bad behaviour out????

I also agree on this measure! I've turned off my chat feature permanently because I'd get so many random people messaging me multiple times and getting more pissed when I wouldn't reply.
I can't imagine how tired the women on here must be of that sort of behavior because I only get a taste of it and it makes me take frequent breaks from this website.
But I still love the community. I just wish the line between fantasy and reality wouldn't get so jumbled with people sometimes (like it was mentioned above.)
I've mainly just ignored these things, but I think it's true that we (myself included) need to do a better job actively working to not reinforce that kind of behavior on here and not letting shitty comments or behavior slide.

I will say the majority of people I've chatted with on here are wonderful, it's just the occasional asshole in my DMs that can really ruin the experience.

There is a photo currently up on a users page which shows some one in stocks,messy, outside of Sainsburys. Captioned 'charity' (quote marks included)- implying its exactly what the other thread discusses about how wrong it is to use charity as a guise to involve unknowing ppl in kink. I just looked- 350+ views on that photo! Only myself commented to challenge it?!? So tell me we are good as a community . That photo is either the user themself using charity as a guise or posting an actual charity event on a kink site without the consent of the ppl in the photo. Both are wrong imo. Yes things 'in the wild' end up here, esp tv game shows but if you're on tv you know that will be viewed by thousands etc- outside sainsburies doing something for charity you don't expect the same widespread viewing or to end up in fetish forums.

that pic got put back up but was it showing the person doing the gunging and the person getting slimed or just the slimed person? ive seen people say they know the user was told pic was innapropriate cause they edited out the person i assume who was not knowing this was for a wam site, did you report pic?

Welcome back, any suggestions on what could be done to make things better or are you willing to share examples of when the lines have been crossed so we can get a better idea of what it's like?