This is a post so we can ALL get out our anger, frustration, diplomatic perspectives and opinions, discuss differences of opinions, and namely show interest in bringing the forum back to a more agreeable state.

As you all know there is an increase of integration and therefore a larger increase of butting heads. I have my personal perspectives however I would like to speak generally with respect to everyone because if we do this right it can benefit us all. People won't have to argue anymore, people won't have to sift, and those indifferent can continue to enjoy the site. I am TIRED of having to sift through posts to find what I am interested in seeing. It is ridiculous to me that we all have to post in the same section and just rely on a faulty system to organize when user error and program error collide to create a mass confusion of frustrations and a sort of WW3.

I would like for the forums to return to their original state with enhancements. I know there is going to be a lot of perspectives with this because everyone has their opinions but that is literally the purpose of this post - for everyone to spill it here and hopefully we can show the powers that be how consensus works. This IS controversial and this IS A TOUGH TOPIC but I believe it MUST be spoken so that we can all get what we are looking for out of this website. I would like to see Male Wam and Female Wam forums return and Messy Forum become sort of a place for co-ed/transgender posts. I think this would allow people who are looking for ONLY one specific gender to find what it is they are looking for. If you want co-ed or transgender then go to Messy. If you want women.. go there... if you want men..... go there!!!!

A resultant of the integration is my withdrawal and loss of interest in this site as a place for we the messy people to come and express and enjoy our fetishes - network, hookup, co-produce with other messy producers, and collaborate alike. It had been, until the recent integration of forums, that there was NO fishing through to find what we want. Posts just landed where they belonged and moderators would moderate things that were out of place to their rightful homes.

It really is simple... you should select what gender the forum post is about... the trouble comes from user error and whether or not it actually works all against the fact that so many people have so many perspectives and what is co-ed versus male versus female is all subject to relativity. It is clear that the gender preference selection tool DOES NOT WORK!!! It has created largely more offensive interactions that don't need to be here. We need to go back to interacting nicely.

Please let us discuss the interest in forums returning to a more appropriate state so that we can show the Messmasters EXACTLY what we think.... and hey, this doesn't necessarily mean I need you to agree with me because my ACTUAL attempt is for us to discuss this topic EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME. So again please PLEASE discuss this here. I would love to hear different perspectives because who knows, maybe you will change mine to feeling more comfortable with the way things are now....

I think we've seen a troubling uptick in both overmoderation and pointless reposts lately (which you'd think might cancel each other out ... but, no) .... but I have to say, despite my initial skepticism, that the gender tagging seems to be working.

I guess I could be missing stuff because it's tagged incorrectly? But I just toggled over to male and scrolled through a page, and didn't see any female or mixed posts that seemed to be in the wrong place.

It seems to be working fine for me.

I know there seems to be confusion about if your preference is, say, male, you should see pots marked co-ed

My understanding is posts marked as co-ed SHOULD (I don't mean morally but rather technically under the new system) appear in your stream if your preference is Male (as there's a man getting messy) or Female (as there is a female getting messy).
I imagine finding a way to allow people to select (male..no co-ed) and male (inc co-ed) and female (inc co-ed ) and female (no co-ed) may be one for the future. Meanwhile seeing the occasional breast (if you like male wam) or penis (if you like female) hopefully won't be too traumatic for anyone . So while some may not like that (as they ONLY want to see men, or only want to see women, I don't think that is how it works..but I am open to correction.

I agree with Regis..when the new system was described I had my doubts, but fairplay to MM, he said it would work and by and large it has. I like the new system

I only want to see female Wam. I've clicked on maybe 3 threads that had male wam in when i wasn't expecting it (& then alongside female wam as well). I shrugged my shoulders & clicked the back button. Kinda took 5 seconds out of my life....As pointed out i don't think it will ever be/ever work 100% perfectly, but as far as i'm concerned i don't see this as a massive deal. If your looking at 100 threads & 50% don't have the right content then fair enough but i think we should just be grateful we have a great site that does the business (as far as i can see) 99% of the time

All just my humble opinion

Thanks for your input guys. I'll hopefully answer most of the questions.

> As you all know there is an increase of integration and therefore a larger increase of butting heads

Actually, the number of posts in the wrong spot is about half what it used to be. Visitors, especially new ones, are less confused. This means more time to put work into other parts of the UMD.

> I am TIRED of having to sift through posts to find what I am interested in seeing. It is ridiculous to me

I'm sure that you and others forget that the old Male Wam forum was always coed. There was no way to only view just male content. That's because it has always been up to the original poster to put mixed female / male content there if they wanted to, and they did that all the time. Now for the first time, we have a "strict" setting that attempts to show you *only* male content. Bringing back the old categorization would necessarily inject female wam into the Male Wam forum, and no way to turn it back off.

> literally the purpose of this post - for everyone to spill it here and hopefully we can show the powers that be how consensus works.

UMD was built on consensus. The reason the forums are this way is because of consensus. The way people actually use the site is quite different from what the vocal minority would have it appear. Don't forget that we have trans people here, who for the first time have their own selections. Plus we have Male Wetlook and Male Messy which we never had before. Bringing it back the old way gets rid of all that, just so you'd be forced to view coed content once again with no way to turn it off. I don't think you want that. Plus, don't forget that a big part of the decision was for internal code organization reasons, so it was very necessary to do.

> I would like to see Male Wam and Female Wam forums return and Messy Forum become sort of a place for co-ed/transgender posts. I think this would allow people who are looking for ONLY one specific gender to find what it is they are looking for.

You see, "Messy" does not imply "female," any more than "Wetlook" implies "male." It was a conflation of two unrelated types of categorization, and that's why we had so many mistaken posts, particularly from folks new to the site. If you want things the old way, then the Male Wam forum would go back to being coed, because that's how it's always been. But now if you want to only see male content, you can turn on the strict setting that we have now. I don't want to force any particular view on anyone, so that's why I've built all the choices. The forums themselves are based just on content now, not gender.

> until the recent integration of forums, that there was NO fishing through to find what we want. Posts just landed where they belonged and moderators would moderate things that were out of place to their rightful homes.

Actually you make it sound magical, but all posts did not just land where they belonged. It is the result of constant moderation behind the scenes. We don't make a big huge stink when somebody messes up and posts to the wrong place; We just move it and contact the user privately, so it might seem like not much is going on, but it is. This is the moderation task that has been cut in half now, due to people not being so confused by the nonsensical categorization we had.

> I think we've seen a troubling uptick in both overmoderation and pointless reposts

I expected a period of acclimation, but it has been very smooth so far. That said, a lot more people are trying to post social networking stuff to the main forums and we are removing those. Double posting is actually reduced because of the fact that people don't cross-post to the male and female forums anymore since the coed option is there now. But if you think I'm missing something, or you disagree with a moderation move, please let me know!

> I guess I could be missing stuff because it's tagged incorrectly? But I just toggled over to male and scrolled through a page, and didn't see any female or mixed posts that seemed to be in the wrong place.

There isn't much, though it happens of course. I think every forum here is about the most consistent and on-topic that a public, free, fetish internet forum could be. That's in no small part because of the vigorous flagging by our members, and the work of Booth and the rest of the mods!

> I imagine finding a way to allow people to select (male..no co-ed) and male (inc co-ed) and female (inc co-ed ) and female (no co-ed) may be one for the future.

That's precisely what our "strict" setting already does It's in your preferences.

> As far as I'm aware mixed wam or co-ed has always been allowed in both male and female forums. Due to the fact it has both genders in it...

Yup. The Male Wam forum that some people want to bring back--because they don't want to see female content--has always necessarily included female content. Only now do we have a strict setting to try and block ALL female content, but some people seem to overlook that.

> MessMaster has always advised myself to advertise mixed wam in both forums. So that all genders get to see what's happenin....

Yeah, and I always hated cross-posting and double posts, but I had no other answer. Now we have the coed option which means it's not necessary anymore.

> Which leads to this, what if a female producer then films the best messy gay scene ever. Then releases it, is it wrong as she's a female?

We go by who is receiving (and sometimes giving) the action in the content. The gender of the producer is irrelevant really.

Thanks for the input guys, both negative and positive. Please try checking out your preferences, as I've put a crazy amount of time trying to make it so you can tailor the entire site to fit you. The default way things are presented might not be to your liking, but they're the best I can do given mounds of input over the years, and if you don't like it, there's probably a setting that will make it better. If not, suggest one! And if you see something in the wrong place, just flag it and we'll get to it.

Peace,
Messmaster