Just a quick question as to whether this was ever revealed as one big setup (The girls new the consequences all along) or not? I cant lie I was always uneasy about the idea of getting someone randomly messy without there say so but just loved the idea of it all. The public aspect is allways a winner. Especially the ones were they'd have friends setup other friends.

Gness7, maybe you are privy to some information I am not. But I used to chat with the That's Unfair producer when he used to be on this forum regularly. According to what he told me (a year or two after he'd shut down his store), it wasn't a complete put-on... but it also wasn't as spontaneous as the videos make it look either.

He said he would first approach the women without the cameras rolling and ask them if they would play his game. He told them about the money they would win and, as seen in the video, he would mention unspecified "consequences" for losing. But of course the women always asked for details on these consequences before agreeing to play. The producer would tell them that he could reveal the consequences to them beforehand, but if he did so, it would mean the amount of money they could win would be reduced by 50%.

Most women said yes, tell me the consequences anyway, at which point he would reveal that they would be pied and slimed for wrong answers. He says not a single woman who he ever revealed the consequences to ahead of time ever went through with playing the game. (Keep in mind that as well as the good chance of getting very messy, their potential winnings in the game had been halved at this point -- so at most they stood to win only $25-$50.)

So... the women we've seen in the That's Unfair videos were the ones who agreed to play the game without knowing the consequences (and thus represent only a small fraction of all the women he appraoched.) So, assuming the producer was telling me the truth when we chatted about this, that means the women in the videos really DIDN'T know they were going to get pied and slimed, but they did have some sense that the consequences they faced might be worse than they might've otherwise suspected.

One weird aspect of this is that when we see the producer come up and introduce himself to the women in his videos, he's actually already approached them and had a conversation about the game and its payouts and consequences. So the first part of each video, the approach, is the put-on part -- play-acting on the producer's and the contestant's part. Each time, the woman pretends that she has never seen this guy before and is hearing about the game for the first time. This does explain the very implausible part of these videos -- why all of these women barely blink at the ambiguous "consequences" the producer mentions quickly and then brushes under the carpet.

That whole thing was SO shady ... and saying so at the time could make you pretty unpopular around here.

I remember how deeply uncomfortable those scenes made me. And just made the whole WAM community look bad. Basically, it was either borderline assault... or a giant bait-and-switch.

But good Lord, TUTV basically printed money with those. You'd have assumed from the comments on here that they were the second coming of MessyFun and unseen Natalie Wood pie outtakes from The Great Race... but WAAAAAY better.

It's sometimes frustrating what the community seems to embrace or reject. WAMAmerica, Blue Diamond, Pies Next Door... All great and ambitious stuff. They got no love compared to the people who fell over themselves praising TUTV. But I've kinda resigned myself to the fact that good scripted stuff isn't in high demand... or at least, it's not the first or second (or 50th) thing people look for when buying....

I don't think i've seen those videos. Do they still exist?

Not to buy, no.
There was some controversy years ago when the guy shut down shop and stopped selling them.... I can't remember the situation but it was a bit murky, like he was implying that he had to stop selling them "for legal reasons" or something sketchy like that......

Well, wasn't his cover story that he shot the footage for a public access TV show, but that he was selling them on the sly here, and that at some point before the show aired the videos would be pulled? Which was obviously total BS (presumably just a version of the cover story the guy used on the girls in order to get the footage without disclosing it was wank material), but nobody here had much of a motive to challenge it. Then, as Rich recalled, some murky legal issue that sounded even dodgier than the original dodgy backstory was cited as the reason for their fairly abrupt disappearance.

I objected strongly to the rapiness of the whole thing a couple of times, then quit after somebody made a cryptic comment about how the vids were faked. I thought maybe was the only one not in on the joke, and figured (hoped) that in order not to get booted off of here he would've had to have satisfied Messmaster that the vids were made with informed consent.

Most likely they were faked.

The legal consequences for someone doing what amounted to assault would be too high.

Not that I give a damn about a producer that would do this. I remember condemning these videos, if they were real, as horrendous.

Imagine if they did this to someone who was on their way to a very important job interview? Or just to work in general? Or to jury duty? Imagine how they could've really fucked up that person's lives.

The producer would deserve every legal action that was coming to them.

One WOULD hope that if someone were on their way to work or jury duty they would NOT stop to play games. One would hope that anyone who stopped to play TUTV's games would have had plenty of time on their hands to where they were going.

Other than that addendum, 100% agree with what you said.

I've never seen any of TUTV's footage.

Sorry I gotta call you on your contradiction, pieromaniac, but..
"not a single" is not the same as "only a small fraction".
So, which is it? Zero, or epsilon>0?

I kind of agree with gness7 for that reason.

It's not a contradiction, Zoid, because those terms are referring to two different (albeit overlapping) groups:

A. Not a single woman who chose to hear the consequences beforehand went on to agree to play the game.

B. Only a small fraction of the sum total of all women approached by TUTV agreed to play the game without knowing the consequences of getting wrong answers. These were the only women who played the game, and thus the only women who appear in TUTV videos, but still a small fraction of the sum total of all women approached by TUTV.

Finally, I just want to say that I'm not arguing in favor of TUTV's methods at all. I'm just describing what he told me, via a UMD IM conversation, about the logistics behind filming his videos. He told me this a year or two after he'd closed his store. I have no idea how likely he was to have been honest or dishonest with me, but the fact that he was no longer able to sell those videos would've presumably given him relatively little motivation to lie about it at that point.

As part of the scripted wam producers union, that's something I have learned very quickly too Rich. It's all groovy of course, because it's just all just personal taste..but like you, as a consumer, & now a producer, I am all about the script/scenario..& the sexiness comes from models who can play that scenario well, covering a variety of body shapes etc

However I have very quickly realised I am producing for a niche within a niche within a niche. The sales show that scenario, acting, substances etc are all way way secondary to the conventional physical characteristics of the model

However I have my wonderful hardcore of fans who love the stuff and buy it, and post lovely things..and that makes it all worthwhile.

But you are right, if I wanted to lose less money I would just hire a stick-like model with the largest breasts I could find, & simply throw a pie at her while she sat in a chair.

I find that interesting because I would never make that because it does nothing for me.

Again, to be 100% clear..not moaning, just find it interesting.

Like I say, tho, the amazing feedback I get from the handful of people who also love the scripted multi-girl scenes makes it all worthwhile

oh..and you had me worried because you referred to wamerica in the past tense..but thankfully like you and I, he is still here

That. And the angry boyfriend beating the living fuck out of him.

Dude is full of shit pretending it's real.

Whether it was real or not, goodness knows. But so far as I know, nobody's ever come across independent evidence to say it was real (e.g. police requests for information, news stories, etc. etc.).

Either way, probably not the best business model.

Well, I'm not talking about stopping to play games.

When TUTV first showed up, they basically advertised themselves as "ambush videos". They claimed these weren't set-ups with prior knowledge. They were just ambushing these girls on street corners, in restaurants, etc.

They put up a thread asking folks how they felt about these clips. Many were highly dubious of the claim. I said if they were real, it was a pretty shitty thing to do because you could be fucking things up for someone that had somewhere important to be (like an interview, a job, jury duty, etc.).

Not to mention the legal action that could be taken against the producer, such as being charged with assault, lawsuits, and such.

It only came out later that they were actually prearranging things with the girls (i.e. faked), and they weren't true "ambush videos".

I'm pretty sure he posted a thread saying he got a girl fired from her job once. But supposedly he found her a new job or something. Don't know if that's true or not.

Does it sound true?

I was referring to the part where he found her a new job. I totally believe the fired part.

Interesting comments on the scripted shoots being slow sellers. Some of our best sellers have been our scripted shoots. For example, our first "Customer is Always Right" shoot was so popular, that we made it a series, and each new shoot out sells the previous one. The revenge series of Vika and Penelope was the basic script of a girl sleeping with another girls boyfriend, and has been done many times in the past, but each shoot they do has become must watch wam, because everyone wants to see how the girls will top their previous meetings. If the script can fit the need for wam, then it should sell fine.

Not knowing the circumstances, it would be hard verify any of it.

However, considering the guy was full of it day one when he came here, I don't believe any of it.

Jesus. What a dick! This community's complicity in that behavior does not reflect highly on us.

Wow! Well I guess everyone remembers the videos of course.

Glad someone brought this to my attention. I will address everything here once and for all without everyone posting rumors.

That's Unfair TV started as a small public access production where the scenarios you all would see were little parts of the show. Those first set of clips released in October of 2007 (about 6 scenarios) were WRONG of our production company to release and were promptly removed.

There were about 6 sets of releases (rare 10/07, 11/07, 2/08, 3/09, 4/11, and 8/11) (about 100 clips) in all with each and every set having a different crew. I can say now that besides the 10/07 batch, these were all a setup with everyone knowing beforehand what situation they were getting themselves into, including all proper release forms. There were also a handful where the participants agreed to play knowing that there would be a consequence but not knowing what it was (as described by pie ro maniac earlier) BUT as shown on the forms BEFORE they participated know what will possibly happen to them. Again that was also for a small handful.

Everything else was in full detail explained BEFOREHAND and most of these participants happened to be great actors.

This is how urban legends start with each and every passing rumor of who heard what from where. The videos were removed because I entered into a contract to sell my rights to another company where they hired me to produce a documentary entirely different than what happened here. As I have stated to many people emailing me throughout the years, I am bound to that agreement and the moment that ends, the clips will be back for sale.

As for what Fighting Salmon said, this was false. There was NEVER a tourist getting slimed and walking back to their hotel messy. Nobody can "google" an actress' name and TUTV would magically pop up because NO ONE actor was ever credited. I do know that throughout the years many people would just claim to be a part of our show and tell other members on here what happened but that is false and the only place to get the truth is through me who actually was there every step of the way. There was also an incident where 2 people started usernames like TUTV or ThatsunfTV who would talk to other members on here as if they were the show. ThatsUnfairtv has always been my handle here since I arrived and I have hung around to answer any question one might have.

As always, instead of posting rumors and secondhand hearsay, I invite you to write me a message and when time allows, I can address everyone individually if they care as much.

Whatever is true or untrue in the claims made in this thread, I, personally, have no interest whatever in any wam videos or pics where the girl is not either clearly enjoying the proceedings voluntarily, or is obviously a professional model who has agreed to act the scene as a paid assignment.
There is quite enough exploitive porn stuff on line generally without any unpleasantness creeping into our little fetish. :ahahah:

Yeah good luck with that pal.

Fair point MG. Maybe I should have emphasised the second part of Rich's statement...that it's not in the top things that people consider.

I have seen several of the Vika v Penelope series & I LOVE them, but I wouldn't really say they are scripted. They have a bare plot to hang the wammings on, but within a minute we're into the wammings (as far as I remember).

I LOVE the scene and ADORE your work. But I wouldn't describe those as scripted wam, with all the nuances, & details of Rich's stuff, or Wamerica's.

and I think that people buy the Vika v Penelope because they know you do great scenes with great pies, & the stakes are upped in every scene with those two.

So again, I think Rich has hit the nail on the head when he said that for the majority lots of other things.....the choice of models, the amount of nudity, the type and quality of pies, the photography, they type of pie hits etc all rate much higher than the dialogue / script.

Am I the only one who thinks there is an uncanny resemblance in voice between the host of That's Unfair TV and another big time producer?

Keeeee-rist, this guy AGAIN?!

I vote to bring back Trevor. At least HE was funny.

Yeah, 2 different situations brah. I can understand the confusion from a Kmart shopper though. No worries.

The Reverend said it better than I could. I don't really think of MG's stuff as "scripted WAM," as it's a lot looser, with the models playing off each other or enjoying the mess a la Liz. [I do think Sara from years ago did some nice scripted scenes tho.] That doesn't mean there's NOT a script, just that it's fairly loose/minimal.

Here's a personal example from me: When I shot with Kylie for SS137, she wanted to do a Star Wars parody... And I honestly think THAT script is pretty funny, and detailed. It's got a LOT of in-jokes regarding J.J. Abrams and so on... It's got a full-blown three minutes where we insert Kylie "into" the SW universe... And of course, it's got lots of slime and pies and Kylie in a slave girl outfit. It sold... Respectfully.

That same day, we also shot Kylie in a tiny slingshot where she really played up to the camera as she got pied and slimed, and the script was adequate at best. THAT sold... through the roof.

I think my only point was, since I almost always shoot with a script, I don't find much correlation between a really great script and a big seller. Occasionally they align, but I rarely have people telling me how much they enjoyed a scene for its jokes. Most of it comes down to the setup, or the way the model delivers her lines and reacts. (And of course the other stuff mentioned: Wardrobe, model, mess, etc.)

Rich, if you really want to be depressed, imagine how many guys fast forward through the lines in your scripted scenes and only watch the money shots!