Hey all, I don't post here much but I had a question mainly for producers that's been in my head for some time, though anyone can obviously chime in if they have an opinion. Basically it's a question regarding intellectual property when it comes to commissioning custom videos. If I were to purchase a custom video, would it be crossing a line to have that producer recreate a scenario that was first made by another producer? For instance, if I liked a story premise from a certain video, would it be wrong to more or less have another producer re-enact that exact same scenario?


Basically my question is for producers: would you be upset if you saw an idea you came up with used in another download store, or is it OK to have another producer duplicate your work if its for a custom video? I'm hoping to buy a few customs in the near future, though a lot of my scripts tend to resemble scenes that I've seen from other stores that I'd be interested in seeing with a certain producer. Not trying to step on too many toes here or create any unnecessary problems, so I figured I'd at least put this question out to the community. Thanks!

Hmm I've done customs with multiple producers, and some of my instructions have been "recreate scene X from other producer but with model Y" and never got objections.

I also think customs tend to build on each other. For example i enjoy the mucky buxket from girls ger gumged and messy health inspector from messygirl, so messygirl and I came up with human garbage Disposal for my customs. Then ppl liked it and someone else did their custom with slut soup that kind of built off the original slut soup but was also kind of like human garbage Disposal.

One thing I would note is that producers tend to interpret your scene through their own lens, so a messygirl custom would be your idea but done in their style, and something from revslymsford will come out in a style similar to his other videos, so I would strongly suggest going to whomever you think best fits the style of the scene you are trying to copy.

I was actually thinking of putting together a reccomendation guide on how to do customs since I've done a bunch of them recently.

Its certainly an interesting experience creating customs. Different producers negotiate and price things in completely different ways, so its more like managing a contractor than just throwing money and script over the fence and getting a scene back.

I would be fairly suprised if any producer here would give a crap about that. You could always ask the producer if your worried about it. Million to one odds its a problem, imo.

Depends really. If it's a format the producer uses regularly, I would steer clear. You're getting into legal territory there. Well, you're in the realm of copyright if you're copying someone else's creation anyway. Why risk a DMCA takedown?

I don't think it would be an issue - there are very few completely original ideas in scenes, we are all drawing on the work of others, but putting our spin on it. That could be other WAM, or mainstream films and TV, fetish work, porn, whatever...

As Meathook says, if you're concerned ask the producer if they mind - I know a couple of people have got fed up in the past when they felt someone new was doing something too close to their work, but to be honest, I think it is all fair game.

Glad you liked our Mucky Buckets and took them to the next level!

Ohh who was that in the picture?

It's from a shoot with Becky & Chacha (Becky is getting the Mucky Bucket there!) - I am going to release the pictures soon, and am trying to find the video footage to rescue a 'lost clip'...

I was curious about this as well - I had a custom done a couple of years where a female stuck her bare feet into off-screen Cool Whip pies, and displayed her creamed soles to the camera. I had actually gotten the idea from a video done by a male, and actually sent the video link in the request when I mentioned my idea for the video.

I didn't think much about it since the original video was release for free and never sold anywhere, but would be interested in any legalities should that come up in the future.

Yeah, this. Like how specific are we talking. Like Most Wam has something called room 42 or something like that. If you were to copy that entire idea, that would be...not a very nice thing to do. Like others have suggested above, you can always just ASK.

What do you mean by "premise"?

The premise of a video can also be called the scenario. A food fight might be a premise.

Now, if you're looking for a shot-for-shot remake of a video, then there would be standing for a complaint.

Say, Producer A had a co-ed food fight, and you want a single gender food fight, well, food fight is generic enough to pass. But if you're looking for a food fight scene where your preferred target gender had X, Y, and Z happen to them, and you want a video were the models have X, Y, and Z happen to them, in that order, then it stops being the same scenario and starts being a recreation.

I mean.... I've had other producers recreate my scenes, word-for-word, using my own scripts. (Which is why I stopped putting them up for free on the site, sadly.)

I've had other producers recreate my scenes using the same models, in the same outfits.

I consider it a badge of honor. If people want to copy my work so badly, I must be doing something right! And I think discerning customers can tell the difference.... much like music fans know the difference between Nirvana and, say, Puddle Of Mudd.

I think out of the 23 scenes we did, only six haven't been reproduced in one way or another.

Flattered actually. Or splattered as the case may be.

I still keep some ideas to myself. Especially ones about white chairs, scrunchies and insideout sweatshirts while wearing sweatsocks and a parka.

Robby


www.wammalamapie.com

www.shepiestheguy.com

https://wammerific.umd.net/

Can someone give an example of some scenes that have been copied? I wanna see if I recognized them.

I think its all pretty much the same 4 scenes, right? Its either a quiz game/challange, a Restaurant scene, some variant of "mess makes me horny", or no setup at all.

With very few exceptions, thats like 80% of the videos here.

I was about to object but then realized that you are essentially right.
I'll have to think of a new premise for my next custom.

Producers here are generally (creatively) fairly generous and even collaborative on the whole and only get protective about our own images and actual media footage because these are the items of cost and commercial value. The ideas themselves add interest but are virtually worthless in the context our particular community. Few would go to the lengths of filing a lawsuit to protect a 'format' (the equivalent of shitting on your own doorstep!) Most are pleased to think they are esteemed enough to be emulated!

If you're talking about formats as intellectual property (including general copyright, names and trademarks) we're more likely to fall foul of an external mainstream entity. Plenty of people blithely use actual registered and privately owned game show names and formats in their spoofs.

There is also the messy accident / clumsy girl scenario. I can't seem to see that one very often.

Yep, he is essentially correct. But it goes back to what I have said for a long time and that is the hard part of making videos is differentiating yourself from everyone else. And as many here have found out, it's simply not that easy.

There's (shock) actually some talent needed if you're going to do anything BUT the same video over and over. It's why so many "stores" burn out so fast.

Robby

I know it's a serious subject, but there's just something funny about referring to videos of women getting pied & gunged as INTELLECTUAL property.

I've had custom clients email a video and say "literally do exactly everything in the video." Not a problem at all nor would I have a problem if someone referenced one of the videos I produced.

If someone asked me to replciate a scene another producer had done, that that producer had invented, and that producer was still in business, then I'd feel I'd have to contact that producer and check they were OK with it. However if it was someone who'd originally commissioned a custom scene from another producer and then wanted us to do a version, then that would be different because the customer would already own the copyright in the scene as it was their idea, and they are free to comission as many producers as they like to shoot versions of it.

This is how the "unofficial" Bond film "Never Say Never Again" came about, because the writers had retained the copyright to "Thunderball" and were thus free to make a new version of it.

I'd always be wary of copying someone else's scenes too closely, although obviously there are ideas that are universal - but you can still make it different and uniquely your own. This is where having a consistent theme or back-story can help, as anything you do can be themed to fit the existing plotline or style.

Hi All,

I saw that someone said it was a badge of honor if someone copied their work. I feel the same way. But let's be clear here... I produce what I want to see, what I like, and what feels good to me. I have a particular, if not boring style, but I am not here to make money (trust me, I don't lol!) so what I produce is literally my interpretation of what this fetish means to me.

That said, I have been here a long time and I constantly see things that look like exact recreations of something I have done, and I also see that same thing in my own work where it looks like I recreated someone else's work exactly, so which came first, the chicken or the egg, comes to mind.

As many people here stated, this is a fetish with a very small but rabid following and most producers consider their work a niche inside a niche. Duplication is not only inevitable, but necessary. I certainly see mine that way, but this idea that anyone has a right to intellectual property is a little off kilter to me.

My partner is a lawyer. The law states that as soon as a video is created, it is automatically copyrighted though it is always a good idea to legally copyright it. Here is the answer in a nutshell:

No one can claim intellectual copyright on a plot. There are only 7 plots to every book ever written and every movie ever made. Revenge, love, kill the monster, etc. Liam Neeson has made the exact same movie for 35 years now, with different movie studios. John Wayne, same thing. So what it comes down to from a legal standpoint is that anyone can copy the plot, no one can use someone else's video in their video.

Think of it this way... dunk tanks have been around forever, used all over the world for entertainment and charity. Does someone have intellectual property rights to dunk tank videos? There are no new ideas, just the legality of using someone else's video and claiming it is yours. A perfect example is that two weeks ago, I watered my garden wearing a maxi dress, got it wet while I did it, filmed it, and it is set for release in a few weeks.Yesterday I saw where a UMD'er here posted a custom video he had commissioned years ago featuring a woman getting wet with a garden hose in a garden while wearing a maxi dress. It's not a coincidence, copyright infringement, or theft of intellectual property, it's just wetlook.

So the specific question asked is more a moral issue than a legal one. If someone literally recreates a specific scene that someone else has done, and they are a producer that relies on sales for a living, you may want to ask permission first. It's a nice thing to do, but legally not necessary.

Thanks for listening!

Madeline

The things I learn here on the UMD.

Who knew John Wayne and Liam Neeson made dunk tank videos.

Now I want to see a Bruce Willis themed dunk tank, and every time it's triggered his voice says "Yippie-ki-yay mothersplosher!"

EXACTLY

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. To imitate someone is to pay the person a genuine compliment -- often an unintended compliment

Ohh i would have loved if i was a producer and someone had recreated/replicated plot/scenario from my production.....

Ohh i WISH i was a producer

You gotta get me some of the stuff you've been smokin' this quarantine.

While other producers have said they consider it a badge of honor to be copied, it would be best to get explicit, written permission. Just because some are cool with it doesn't mean everyone is.

In an interview, he once said "I can only play two characters - with hat, and without hat"

"And both of them are gonna be SUUUUUPER racist."

I think MadelineOasis correctly sums up the IP issue/question.

As for production 'copyright' (conferred to the producer immediately upon creation of the work), this generally means that someone else can't copy the video and sell it and profit from it (without an agreement with the producer).

As Madeline also stated: there's nothing new under he sun.

This is especially true about slapstick comedy -- a theatrical art form that thrived on people copying each other's gags and occasionally adding some new touch here and there to make it 'their own' or unique. Even the greats of silent film got many of their gags from theatrical clown traditions started by comic inovators like Max Linder (who did originate many gags, but whose comic routines were often derived from classic Comedia dell'arte style 'antics').

If one wants a custom video producer to make an exact duplicate of a famous scene (from an IP -protected film or TV show) that is SOLELY for his/her own private enjoyment, there is nothing illegal about this...so long as it remains private; if the customer then turns around and starts to sell copies for profit -- that could be a (legal) problem. But who here (a wam producer) is going to sue the customer (esp. when the custom-produced content is a duplication of a famous film/TV scene)...no IP/copyright infringement lawyer would touch that.