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""One Stays Clean" scenes: Should the clean person get messy at all?"
Love you, too
Our tradition at the Hall has always been that everyone needs to get equally messy. Indeed, there's housemagic that every new lord or lady of the manor has to comply with, that anyone, well, almost anyone, who remains clean while messing up someone else, and doesn't take their own turn afterwards, will unleash and ancient and terrible curse.
However, there is an exception. Any officially designated jester is freed from the curse and can gunge others to their hearts content while suffering no consequences themselves. TBH as everyone here loves getting messy, we've not actually had a jester in the household for many years. But that may be about to change!
Basically we've been approached by a potential and former model, Daisy, who wants to get involved again but doesn't want to get her (expensive and fragile) hair extensions messy. At the same time, I know from conversations with The Rev that there is a market for scenes where one person remains clean, rarther than everyone getting equally messy.
I've thought of a few scenarios where someone could take part but remain clean, for example:
She could be an assistant to Miss Abigail, helping to apply the gunge during a Miss Abigail Explains. She could be in a uniform or a maid's dress, and either
- stay completely clean,
- OR have her panties filled with custard (which will then drip as she walks about) but otherwise remain un-messed.
She could be the compare of a game between two of our other people, where each turn the winner gets to say what is done to the loser, but it's done by the compare.
- The compare either stays completely clean,
- OR has to sit down between each turn, and every time she stands up something messy is placed on her seat, so the back of her skirt or trousers, which will be facing the camera when she is messing up the contestants, gets messier and messier each turn but the rest of her stays clean.
She could operate the gunge tank, doing the filling with the jugs while the recipient waits nervously underneath, teasing the recipient, triggering the actual main release so the recipient doesn't know exactly when its coming, turning the water on for the second and third deluges, and triggering them, etc. This would be a "stays clean throughout" option.
She could do any of the above while remaining completely clean herself, but then at the end when everyone else is upstairs, she could completely mess her lower half from the waist down, skirt covering or trouser filling, as a partial self-sacrifice "just in case" to avoid any risk of the ancient curse.
So, a poll! If you are interested in "one stays clean" scenes (or even if you hate them - there's an option for that), which option would you prefer:
She should remain completely clean throughout
- vote this one if you don't want her to get messy at all, either during the joint scenes, or afterwards in a solo messing.
She should get a bit messy
- vote this one if you like the idea that she has her underwear filled or has to sit in stuff, so gets partly messy, but doesn't get fully gunged at any point.
Clean during, but partly messed up afterwards
- vote this one if you'd prefer that she doesn't get messy at all during the main scenes but would like to see her partly mess herself up in a solo after the main scenes are done and dusted.
One Stays Clean is an abomination before the gods
- and vote this one if you absolutely hate "one stays clean" scenes.
And if anyone has any other comments or thoughts, lets hear them!
However, there is an exception. Any officially designated jester is freed from the curse and can gunge others to their hearts content while suffering no consequences themselves. TBH as everyone here loves getting messy, we've not actually had a jester in the household for many years. But that may be about to change!
Basically we've been approached by a potential and former model, Daisy, who wants to get involved again but doesn't want to get her (expensive and fragile) hair extensions messy. At the same time, I know from conversations with The Rev that there is a market for scenes where one person remains clean, rarther than everyone getting equally messy.
I've thought of a few scenarios where someone could take part but remain clean, for example:
She could be an assistant to Miss Abigail, helping to apply the gunge during a Miss Abigail Explains. She could be in a uniform or a maid's dress, and either - stay completely clean,
- OR have her panties filled with custard (which will then drip as she walks about) but otherwise remain un-messed.
She could be the compare of a game between two of our other people, where each turn the winner gets to say what is done to the loser, but it's done by the compare. - The compare either stays completely clean,
- OR has to sit down between each turn, and every time she stands up something messy is placed on her seat, so the back of her skirt or trousers, which will be facing the camera when she is messing up the contestants, gets messier and messier each turn but the rest of her stays clean.
She could operate the gunge tank, doing the filling with the jugs while the recipient waits nervously underneath, teasing the recipient, triggering the actual main release so the recipient doesn't know exactly when its coming, turning the water on for the second and third deluges, and triggering them, etc. This would be a "stays clean throughout" option. She could do any of the above while remaining completely clean herself, but then at the end when everyone else is upstairs, she could completely mess her lower half from the waist down, skirt covering or trouser filling, as a partial self-sacrifice "just in case" to avoid any risk of the ancient curse. So, a poll! If you are interested in "one stays clean" scenes (or even if you hate them - there's an option for that), which option would you prefer:
She should remain completely clean throughout - vote this one if you don't want her to get messy at all, either during the joint scenes, or afterwards in a solo messing.
She should get a bit messy - vote this one if you like the idea that she has her underwear filled or has to sit in stuff, so gets partly messy, but doesn't get fully gunged at any point.
Clean during, but partly messed up afterwards - vote this one if you'd prefer that she doesn't get messy at all during the main scenes but would like to see her partly mess herself up in a solo after the main scenes are done and dusted.
One Stays Clean is an abomination before the gods - and vote this one if you absolutely hate "one stays clean" scenes.
And if anyone has any other comments or thoughts, lets hear them!
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
I voted say stays clean throughout but then gets messy afterwards but I do also quite like the idea of her "accidentally" sitting in something durring the scene maybe where another participant places something on her chair without her noticing (or even have this happen a few times with the right outfit you might even be able to sell her not noticing and the other participant(s) laughing at her expense despite getting completely trashed themselves.
If you do the gets messy afterwards it could always be a separate video fileso you could watch the scene with or without. I like the idea of her cleaning up the dungeon after the scene and being unable to resist the buckets of slops
If you do the gets messy afterwards it could always be a separate video fileso you could watch the scene with or without. I like the idea of her cleaning up the dungeon after the scene and being unable to resist the buckets of slops
What a great poll.
I like the idea of the domineering woman doing all the messing and really enjoying it. Totally covering her poor victim in all the mess.
Thinking she's getting away Scot free she somehow gets one large custard pie pushed in her face. It's so humiliating for her !!x
I like the idea of the domineering woman doing all the messing and really enjoying it. Totally covering her poor victim in all the mess.
Thinking she's getting away Scot free she somehow gets one large custard pie pushed in her face. It's so humiliating for her !!x
Well, my opinion would generally fall into two categories:
In the first, my optimal scene would be one where both models stand an equal chance of getting messy, but due to circumstances of the scene (i.e. a game of luck or skill) one remains clean while messing the other one. While it may result in missed opportunities, it adds in the excitement of true randomness, which is rare in produced scenes.
If that's not possible, like in the situation you have here, a scene in which one model messes up another while remaining clean is preferable to a solo scene.
While the real life issues regarding MostWam are obviously problematic, their scenes very frequently featured the setup you're discussing here and can be used as a reference for how to handle it.
In the first, my optimal scene would be one where both models stand an equal chance of getting messy, but due to circumstances of the scene (i.e. a game of luck or skill) one remains clean while messing the other one. While it may result in missed opportunities, it adds in the excitement of true randomness, which is rare in produced scenes.
If that's not possible, like in the situation you have here, a scene in which one model messes up another while remaining clean is preferable to a solo scene.
While the real life issues regarding MostWam are obviously problematic, their scenes very frequently featured the setup you're discussing here and can be used as a reference for how to handle it.
While you clearly CAN create a scene in which one person stays clean, I'm struggling to think of a scenario in which that would be BETTER than one in which both models got messy. If the person delivering the mess stays clean, I don't pay much attention to them, so you'd be paying modelling rates for someone to do something that anyone could do.
Having said that, I have had a couple of thoughts. You could play to the foot fetishists - she could mess someone else up but keep getting mess on her own bare feet, or have to walk through increasingly deep / unpleasant mess to get to the other model. That would certainly keep her hair out of it, and would have some appeal.
Alternatively, what about some sort of "rising mess" - standing in a container which is gradually filling with mess. You could make this competitive between two girls and fix it so that your model with the hair issues was always the winner, so the gunge never went above, say, chest height. But though fun to do, might be hard to film.
Ultimately, while I applaud your efforts to accommodate this girls wishes, unless she's doing it at a big discount because she's not being messed, it would seem to me that commercially if you're going to pay for two models then you want the sales generated by two models getting messy, not just one.
Having said that, I have had a couple of thoughts. You could play to the foot fetishists - she could mess someone else up but keep getting mess on her own bare feet, or have to walk through increasingly deep / unpleasant mess to get to the other model. That would certainly keep her hair out of it, and would have some appeal.
Alternatively, what about some sort of "rising mess" - standing in a container which is gradually filling with mess. You could make this competitive between two girls and fix it so that your model with the hair issues was always the winner, so the gunge never went above, say, chest height. But though fun to do, might be hard to film.
Ultimately, while I applaud your efforts to accommodate this girls wishes, unless she's doing it at a big discount because she's not being messed, it would seem to me that commercially if you're going to pay for two models then you want the sales generated by two models getting messy, not just one.
ABGamma said: Well, my opinion would generally fall into two categorie:
In the first, my optimal scene would be one where both models stand an equal chance of getting messy, but due to circumstances of the scene (i.e. a game of luck or skill) one remains clean while messing the other one. While it may result in missed opportunities, it adds in the excitement of true randomness, which is rare in produced scenes.
If that's not possible, like in the situation you have here, a scene in which one model messes up another while remaining clean is preferable to a solo scene.
While the real life issues regarding MostWam are obviously problematic, their scenes very frequently featured the setup you're discussing here and can be used as a reference for how to handle it.
In the first, my optimal scene would be one where both models stand an equal chance of getting messy, but due to circumstances of the scene (i.e. a game of luck or skill) one remains clean while messing the other one. While it may result in missed opportunities, it adds in the excitement of true randomness, which is rare in produced scenes.
If that's not possible, like in the situation you have here, a scene in which one model messes up another while remaining clean is preferable to a solo scene.
While the real life issues regarding MostWam are obviously problematic, their scenes very frequently featured the setup you're discussing here and can be used as a reference for how to handle it.
I very distinctly remember a MW scene where someone loses a contest and gets gunged. The person doing the gunging then randomly popped up covered herself and that was mildly confusing.
On a side note- I don't know if their StreetSplash scenes were staged or not - I have a hard time believing they just randomly found someone meeting her boyfriend for lunch and convinced her to get into a bathtub, sundress and all - but there were times when I definitely wished they were like, screw it let's get in with them.
To me, this has more to do with the person (or, I guess to be more accurate, the character the person is playing) than the logistics of the mess.
So, like, first things first: if your jester isn't injecting some sort of energy into being clean, then being clean is probably not going to be that much of a draw or a turn-on. Is she going to be Harley Quinn? Is she going to be cooler and more vindictive? In other words, what flavor of clean are we talking about?
Once you figure that out, that's the point when it makes sense to me to start thinking about choreography and all that. I think all four poll options are reasonable, but they're not necessarily all options that everyone can pull off.
So, like, first things first: if your jester isn't injecting some sort of energy into being clean, then being clean is probably not going to be that much of a draw or a turn-on. Is she going to be Harley Quinn? Is she going to be cooler and more vindictive? In other words, what flavor of clean are we talking about?
Once you figure that out, that's the point when it makes sense to me to start thinking about choreography and all that. I think all four poll options are reasonable, but they're not necessarily all options that everyone can pull off.
I'm impressed by the number of people who think that one stays clean is an unholy abomination, definitely a factor to keep in mind!
Thanks to all who've voted so far, please keep them coming!
To reply to the points so far:
That's an interesting twist on it. Have the compare wearing waterproof trousers, or even a long pleather skirt or pleather jumpsuit, and deliberately not notice the ever increasing amount of custard she's sitting down in each turn.
That's a thought, ta!
Thanks! No pies in the face though, that'd get in her hair. But lower half can get messy, huge squishy pie in the bum perhaps. 
Opinion seems to be split on whether a one-stays-clean is better than a solo or not, see the large "abomination!" vote
- but I think I do partly agree. TBH I was originally put off one-stays-clean years ago, there used to be a producer who'd have a stays-clean girl mess up another, and the one getting messy would be weating some horrid skimpy rubbish, while the one who stayed clean would be in really nice jeans and top - but even if in a second scene the tables turned, now the girl getting messy would have changed into something horrible and skimpy while the new stay-clean girl would be nicely dressed. Never-ending infuriation that girls in nice gunge outfits were standing right there, but never got messy in them. Arrghhhh!
Though as Honeysuckle pointed out one night while we were having our post-shoot meal, to most guys, what I call a "horrid skimpy thing" was probably quite sexy, so the outfits probably made commercial sense. But the result was it put me totally off one-stays-clean as a subgenre.
Regarding the last point, while I have a large collection of MW scenes on my storage drives, I've not watched so much as a single frame since the news broke a year ago, and honestly don't know when or if I ever will again. So we won't be using anything they did as a reference.
That's always been my default position, but the Rev has indicated that there is a market for one-stays-clean, and from a personal POV I can see the attraction of having someone in a nice attractive outfit that I'll enjoy watching them moving in, walking around the dungeon messing other people who are also in attractive outfits.
There's also a practical advantage in that in our usual games where people mess each other up, once everyone is fairly messy it can get tricky to hold containers with slippery hands. Having an all-clean person (who can wipe her hands using her own clothes if she needs to) to do things will acually make it easier. Plus to me there's a slight kinkiness difference between people messing each other up, where even though they're the recipient one turn, they're the agent in the next one, and people who have to entirely passively accept messy things being done to them by someone who they aren't allowed to ever get their own back on. I think it may change the dynamic of some of our games in interesting ways.
How many we do will depend on how they sell and are received, but willing to give it a try, Daisy's a lovely girl and does actively want to take part again.
Ohh, now that is an interesting idea. And while we do always try to cater to foot fetishists and barefoot fans where possible, it usually involves the girls deliberately bringing their feet up into view as our standard framing is knees-to-heads for standing scenes. Something that features a lot more focus on walking through increasing mess possibly with hand-held camerawork, could definitely be an idea.
Lowering people into mess is something I've always wanted to be able to do - we just don't have the height in our dungeons to set something like that up. I've filmed lots of wetlook scenes where the camera is in a tripod deep in the water, so the lens is just a few inches above river level, and had the girls wade down a slope into the river towards it so we can watch the water level rising up their legs and engulfing their trunks. I'd absolutely love to have girls standing on a platform that is then lowered slowly into a tank or vat of custard, or gunge, or liquid mud.
Ultimately, whether they sell or not will determine if this is a one-off or a recurring series, but it'll take a while to interpret the data, given our long release schedules.
I think those scenes were modelled, just filmed in public instead of in private? But as said to ABGamma above, haven't looked at my MW collection for a year now. As to the person suddeny appearing messy, presumably an editing error, that footage shouldn't have been in the scene you were looking at? Hollywood in the 30s was notorious for continuity errors, for example a scene where someone who'd been soaked was talking to someone dry, and it was filmed from two different angles, each take being on a different day, and the "wet" person being bone dry in half the shots as a result.
Fair points, and I do see what you mean. So not just be clean, but flaunt being clean, show off her cleanliness in contrast to her victims. I like that idea, thank you!
Thanks to all who've voted so far, please keep them coming!
To reply to the points so far:
in_my_trunks said: I voted say stays clean throughout but then gets messy afterwards but I do also quite like the idea of her "accidentally" sitting in something durring the scene maybe where another participant places something on her chair without her noticing (or even have this happen a few times with the right outfit you might even be able to sell her not noticing and the other participant(s) laughing at her expense despite getting completely trashed themselves.
That's an interesting twist on it. Have the compare wearing waterproof trousers, or even a long pleather skirt or pleather jumpsuit, and deliberately not notice the ever increasing amount of custard she's sitting down in each turn.
in_my_trunks said: If you do the gets messy afterwards it could always be a separate video fileso you could watch the scene with or without. I like the idea of her cleaning up the dungeon after the scene and being unable to resist the buckets of slops
That's a thought, ta!
SmokySharon said: What a great poll.
I like the idea of the domineering woman doing all the messing and really enjoying it. Totally covering her poor victim in all the mess.
Thinking she's getting away Scot free she somehow gets one large custard pie pushed in her face. It's so humiliating for her !!x
I like the idea of the domineering woman doing all the messing and really enjoying it. Totally covering her poor victim in all the mess.
Thinking she's getting away Scot free she somehow gets one large custard pie pushed in her face. It's so humiliating for her !!x
Thanks!
No pies in the face though, that'd get in her hair. But lower half can get messy, huge squishy pie in the bum perhaps. ABGamma said: Well, my opinion would generally fall into two categories:
In the first, my optimal scene would be one where both models stand an equal chance of getting messy, but due to circumstances of the scene (i.e. a game of luck or skill) one remains clean while messing the other one. While it may result in missed opportunities, it adds in the excitement of true randomness, which is rare in produced scenes.
If that's not possible, like in the situation you have here, a scene in which one model messes up another while remaining clean is preferable to a solo scene.
While the real life issues regarding MostWam are obviously problematic, their scenes very frequently featured the setup you're discussing here and can be used as a reference for how to handle it.
In the first, my optimal scene would be one where both models stand an equal chance of getting messy, but due to circumstances of the scene (i.e. a game of luck or skill) one remains clean while messing the other one. While it may result in missed opportunities, it adds in the excitement of true randomness, which is rare in produced scenes.
If that's not possible, like in the situation you have here, a scene in which one model messes up another while remaining clean is preferable to a solo scene.
While the real life issues regarding MostWam are obviously problematic, their scenes very frequently featured the setup you're discussing here and can be used as a reference for how to handle it.
Opinion seems to be split on whether a one-stays-clean is better than a solo or not, see the large "abomination!" vote
- but I think I do partly agree. TBH I was originally put off one-stays-clean years ago, there used to be a producer who'd have a stays-clean girl mess up another, and the one getting messy would be weating some horrid skimpy rubbish, while the one who stayed clean would be in really nice jeans and top - but even if in a second scene the tables turned, now the girl getting messy would have changed into something horrible and skimpy while the new stay-clean girl would be nicely dressed. Never-ending infuriation that girls in nice gunge outfits were standing right there, but never got messy in them. Arrghhhh! Though as Honeysuckle pointed out one night while we were having our post-shoot meal, to most guys, what I call a "horrid skimpy thing" was probably quite sexy, so the outfits probably made commercial sense. But the result was it put me totally off one-stays-clean as a subgenre.
Regarding the last point, while I have a large collection of MW scenes on my storage drives, I've not watched so much as a single frame since the news broke a year ago, and honestly don't know when or if I ever will again. So we won't be using anything they did as a reference.
Reiver2 said: While you clearly CAN create a scene in which one person stays clean, I'm struggling to think of a scenario in which that would be BETTER than one in which both models got messy. If the person delivering the mess stays clean, I don't pay much attention to them, so you'd be paying modelling rates for someone to do something that anyone could do.
That's always been my default position, but the Rev has indicated that there is a market for one-stays-clean, and from a personal POV I can see the attraction of having someone in a nice attractive outfit that I'll enjoy watching them moving in, walking around the dungeon messing other people who are also in attractive outfits.
There's also a practical advantage in that in our usual games where people mess each other up, once everyone is fairly messy it can get tricky to hold containers with slippery hands. Having an all-clean person (who can wipe her hands using her own clothes if she needs to) to do things will acually make it easier. Plus to me there's a slight kinkiness difference between people messing each other up, where even though they're the recipient one turn, they're the agent in the next one, and people who have to entirely passively accept messy things being done to them by someone who they aren't allowed to ever get their own back on. I think it may change the dynamic of some of our games in interesting ways.
How many we do will depend on how they sell and are received, but willing to give it a try, Daisy's a lovely girl and does actively want to take part again.
Reiver2 said: Having said that, I have had a couple of thoughts. You could play to the foot fetishists - she could mess someone else up but keep getting mess on her own bare feet, or have to walk through increasingly deep / unpleasant mess to get to the other model. That would certainly keep her hair out of it, and would have some appeal.
Ohh, now that is an interesting idea. And while we do always try to cater to foot fetishists and barefoot fans where possible, it usually involves the girls deliberately bringing their feet up into view as our standard framing is knees-to-heads for standing scenes. Something that features a lot more focus on walking through increasing mess possibly with hand-held camerawork, could definitely be an idea.
Reiver2 said: Alternatively, what about some sort of "rising mess" - standing in a container which is gradually filling with mess. You could make this competitive between two girls and fix it so that your model with the hair issues was always the winner, so the gunge never went above, say, chest height. But though fun to do, might be hard to film.
Lowering people into mess is something I've always wanted to be able to do - we just don't have the height in our dungeons to set something like that up. I've filmed lots of wetlook scenes where the camera is in a tripod deep in the water, so the lens is just a few inches above river level, and had the girls wade down a slope into the river towards it so we can watch the water level rising up their legs and engulfing their trunks. I'd absolutely love to have girls standing on a platform that is then lowered slowly into a tank or vat of custard, or gunge, or liquid mud.
Reiver2 said: Ultimately, while I applaud your efforts to accommodate this girls wishes, unless she's doing it at a big discount because she's not being messed, it would seem to me that commercially if you're going to pay for two models then you want the sales generated by two models getting messy, not just one.
Ultimately, whether they sell or not will determine if this is a one-off or a recurring series, but it'll take a while to interpret the data, given our long release schedules.
BarryMcCockiner2 said: I very distinctly remember a MW scene where someone loses a contest and gets gunged. The person doing the gunging then randomly popped up covered herself and that was mildly confusing.
On a side note- I don't know if their StreetSplash scenes were staged or not - I have a hard time believing they just randomly found someone meeting her boyfriend for lunch and convinced her to get into a bathtub, sundress and all - but there were times when I definitely wished they were like, screw it let's get in with them.
On a side note- I don't know if their StreetSplash scenes were staged or not - I have a hard time believing they just randomly found someone meeting her boyfriend for lunch and convinced her to get into a bathtub, sundress and all - but there were times when I definitely wished they were like, screw it let's get in with them.
I think those scenes were modelled, just filmed in public instead of in private? But as said to ABGamma above, haven't looked at my MW collection for a year now. As to the person suddeny appearing messy, presumably an editing error, that footage shouldn't have been in the scene you were looking at? Hollywood in the 30s was notorious for continuity errors, for example a scene where someone who'd been soaked was talking to someone dry, and it was filmed from two different angles, each take being on a different day, and the "wet" person being bone dry in half the shots as a result.
larryniven said: To me, this has more to do with the person (or, I guess to be more accurate, the character the person is playing) than the logistics of the mess.
So, like, first things first: if your jester isn't injecting some sort of energy into being clean, then being clean is probably not going to be that much of a draw or a turn-on. Is she going to be Harley Quinn? Is she going to be cooler and more vindictive? In other words, what flavor of clean are we talking about?
Once you figure that out, that's the point when it makes sense to me to start thinking about choreography and all that. I think all four poll options are reasonable, but they're not necessarily all options that everyone can pull off.
So, like, first things first: if your jester isn't injecting some sort of energy into being clean, then being clean is probably not going to be that much of a draw or a turn-on. Is she going to be Harley Quinn? Is she going to be cooler and more vindictive? In other words, what flavor of clean are we talking about?
Once you figure that out, that's the point when it makes sense to me to start thinking about choreography and all that. I think all four poll options are reasonable, but they're not necessarily all options that everyone can pull off.
Fair points, and I do see what you mean. So not just be clean, but flaunt being clean, show off her cleanliness in contrast to her victims. I like that idea, thank you!
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
That's always been my default position, but the Rev has indicated that there is a market for one-stays-clean, and from a personal POV I can see the attraction of having someone in a nice attractive outfit that I'll enjoy watching them moving in, walking around the dungeon messing other people who are also in attractive outfits.
Your comments above sum it up nicely about what I like about these scenes and I have bought many of them from the fantastic Rev
I love seeing one person take all the mess! I'm into the Dom/sub aspect of messy play, and it also hits that humiliation aspect that I'm also into, so it's fun to see only one person take all the pies to the face while one person gets incredibly unrecognizable with mess!
@Dungeon Master-
That makes sense regarding StreetSplash. I actually bought the scene that I was referring to, and her reactions to effectively swimming fully clothed in public gave off more of a vibe that she had done that before than that of a genuine stranger who decided, screw it I'm gonna get in this bathtub in a full length dress because YOLO.
Regarding the other scene- the GungeTankGirls site is still up and there maybe have been a small note about a surprise gunging but I don't think so?
That makes sense regarding StreetSplash. I actually bought the scene that I was referring to, and her reactions to effectively swimming fully clothed in public gave off more of a vibe that she had done that before than that of a genuine stranger who decided, screw it I'm gonna get in this bathtub in a full length dress because YOLO.
Regarding the other scene- the GungeTankGirls site is still up and there maybe have been a small note about a surprise gunging but I don't think so?
CreamMeAgain said: I love seeing one person take all the mess! I'm into the Dom/sub aspect of messy play, and it also hits that humiliation aspect that I'm also into, so it's fun to see only one person take all the pies to the face while one person gets incredibly unrecognizable with mess!
Yes please! Have the gunger wearing rubber gloves and a coverall and making it perfectly obvious and gleeful that she has no intention of getting any of that horrible mess on herself whilst completely trashing the other person
CreamMeAgain said: I love seeing one person take all the mess! I'm into the Dom/sub aspect of messy play, and it also hits that humiliation aspect that I'm also into, so it's fun to see only one person take all the pies to the face while one person gets incredibly unrecognizable with mess!
This. 100% this.
I love the whole Dom / Sub aesthetic and, although I don't always badge it as such, it's a dynamic at play in plenty of my scenes for sure.
And to have the Dom get messy at the end of a scene then destroys the whole conceit for me. It would be like the domme in a spanking scene suddenly allowing the sub to spank them back
. Now a separate scene where revenge is sought and possibly achieved can certainly work within those parameters...but not the clean girl randomly getting messy at the end of a scene where she was the domme. That's the real abomination for me.
To be clear I know this isn't aspect isn't important for a substantive chunk of the community....but the fact my store is still alive and well, and the DMs I get, is also the proof that there are plenty who do enjoy the dom / sub humiliation and punishment aspect of wam, where one girl stays clean.
So there's room for all sorts
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As with everything related to WAM, people have VERY different and VERY strong opinions on this.... And whichever way you commit, you're gonna lose part of the other audience in the process.
I never bothered with "inequality scenes" (which are the proper term for one girl staying 100% clean, apparently) in the past. But occasionally I'd get them accidentally when a model wanted to bring a second, and they didn't necessarily *want* to get messy. Sometimes they got paid a bit, sometimes not.
In the case of the inequality scenes with Carrie.... I can tell you that many of her scenes where she's the ONLY model getting messy actually outsold her scenes where the other model ALSO gets messy. Take that as you will. (But related to that: People absolutely DO pay attention to the other girl, especially if she's a looker....)
I've had multiple people request inequality scenes from me in the past few years. So I've tried to fill that niche a bit. Some of them have sold extremely well... Some have sold incredibly poorly. Again, it all comes down to the models involved and how they play off each other.
Not saying this poll isn't valuable, but it's misleading to look at data based on generic questions when a SPECIFIC clean/dirty combo or scenario will really resonate with an audience.... but swapping out one model (even the clean one) can make the scene a dud.
My best-selling scene of 2022 was a "one girl gets messy, the other stays 100% clean" clip FWIW.
I never bothered with "inequality scenes" (which are the proper term for one girl staying 100% clean, apparently) in the past. But occasionally I'd get them accidentally when a model wanted to bring a second, and they didn't necessarily *want* to get messy. Sometimes they got paid a bit, sometimes not.
In the case of the inequality scenes with Carrie.... I can tell you that many of her scenes where she's the ONLY model getting messy actually outsold her scenes where the other model ALSO gets messy. Take that as you will. (But related to that: People absolutely DO pay attention to the other girl, especially if she's a looker....)
I've had multiple people request inequality scenes from me in the past few years. So I've tried to fill that niche a bit. Some of them have sold extremely well... Some have sold incredibly poorly. Again, it all comes down to the models involved and how they play off each other.
Not saying this poll isn't valuable, but it's misleading to look at data based on generic questions when a SPECIFIC clean/dirty combo or scenario will really resonate with an audience.... but swapping out one model (even the clean one) can make the scene a dud.
My best-selling scene of 2022 was a "one girl gets messy, the other stays 100% clean" clip FWIW.
PiePiskie said:
Your comments above sum it up nicely about what I like about these scenes and I have bought many of them from the fantastic Rev
That's always been my default position, but the Rev has indicated that there is a market for one-stays-clean, and from a personal POV I can see the attraction of having someone in a nice attractive outfit that I'll enjoy watching them moving in, walking around the dungeon messing other people who are also in attractive outfits.
Your comments above sum it up nicely about what I like about these scenes and I have bought many of them from the fantastic Rev
That's fair enough, I hope you'll like whatever we come up with too.
CreamMeAgain said: I love seeing one person take all the mess! I'm into the Dom/sub aspect of messy play, and it also hits that humiliation aspect that I'm also into, so it's fun to see only one person take all the pies to the face while one person gets incredibly unrecognizable with mess!
So one face-only, and the other completely trashed? Interesting variation.
BarryMcCockiner2 said: @Dungeon Master-
Not a biggie, and not picking on you personally, but why do people keep changing my name? It's DungeonMasterOne (or DM1 for short), but for some reason folk keep altering it? **amused and puzzled**
BarryMcCockiner2 said:That makes sense regarding StreetSplash. I actually bought the scene that I was referring to, and her reactions to effectively swimming fully clothed in public gave off more of a vibe that she had done that before than that of a genuine stranger who decided, screw it I'm gonna get in this bathtub in a full length dress because YOLO.
The site that does (by paying them) persuade genuine members of the public to do WAM scenes is EuroWAM with their "Wam Hunter" scenes, but I believe they're based somewhere in Eastern Europe so the amount they need to offer to get someone to do something sploshy is probably less than here in the West.
BarryMcCockiner2 said:Regarding the other scene- the GungeTankGirls site is still up and there maybe have been a small note about a surprise gunging but I don't think so?
Not sure I get the connection? AFAIK GTG is nothing to do with MW? But TBH we're not going to be copying any other producer's scenes closely, even when we've had permission to do that, as in the legendary Jayce and she-who-will-not-be-named white trousers and skirt scene, which we were told by the original comissioner we were free to copy, we did a homage instead - the three girls in all-white that went live a few months back.
Sque1ch said:
Yes please! Have the gunger wearing rubber gloves and a coverall and making it perfectly obvious and gleeful that she has no intention of getting any of that horrible mess on herself whilst completely trashing the other person
CreamMeAgain said: I love seeing one person take all the mess! I'm into the Dom/sub aspect of messy play, and it also hits that humiliation aspect that I'm also into, so it's fun to see only one person take all the pies to the face while one person gets incredibly unrecognizable with mess!
Yes please! Have the gunger wearing rubber gloves and a coverall and making it perfectly obvious and gleeful that she has no intention of getting any of that horrible mess on herself whilst completely trashing the other person
Wellies, fitted boilersuit, and big black rubber gloves, is definitely our style, and I'd not object to watching someone walk round the dungeon all day dressed like that!
So definitely an option. Though I'm imagining that a PVC catsuit or skin-tight sportswear (possibly still with gloves though) may have wider appeal among the community in general. We'll be doing more than one scene though, and it doesn't take much persuasion for me to put a model in a boilersuit.
RevSlymsford said:
This. 100% this.
I love the whole Dom / Sub aesthetic and, although I don't always badge it as such, it's a dynamic at play in plenty of my scenes for sure.
And to have the Dom get messy at the end of a scene then destroys the whole conceit for me. It would be like the domme in a spanking scene suddenly allowing the sub to spank them back .
Now a separate scene where revenge is sought and possibly achieved can certainly work within those parameters...but not the clean girl randomly getting messy at the end of a scene where she was the domme. That's the real abomination for me.
To be clear I know this isn't aspect isn't important for a substantive chunk of the community....but the fact my store is still alive and well, and the DMs I get, is also the proof that there are plenty who do enjoy the dom / sub humiliation and punishment aspect of wam, where one girl stays clean.
So there's room for all sorts
CreamMeAgain said: I love seeing one person take all the mess! I'm into the Dom/sub aspect of messy play, and it also hits that humiliation aspect that I'm also into, so it's fun to see only one person take all the pies to the face while one person gets incredibly unrecognizable with mess!
This. 100% this.
I love the whole Dom / Sub aesthetic and, although I don't always badge it as such, it's a dynamic at play in plenty of my scenes for sure.
And to have the Dom get messy at the end of a scene then destroys the whole conceit for me. It would be like the domme in a spanking scene suddenly allowing the sub to spank them back
. Now a separate scene where revenge is sought and possibly achieved can certainly work within those parameters...but not the clean girl randomly getting messy at the end of a scene where she was the domme. That's the real abomination for me.
To be clear I know this isn't aspect isn't important for a substantive chunk of the community....but the fact my store is still alive and well, and the DMs I get, is also the proof that there are plenty who do enjoy the dom / sub humiliation and punishment aspect of wam, where one girl stays clean.
So there's room for all sorts
Generally, when we have someone here they either do a day (3 scenes) or a weekend (7 or 8 scenes). I'm expecting this first foray into OSC will be a one-day shoot, and I'm thinking each one will be a different take, so one where she stays completely clean, and another where she perhaps does the "sitting in mess each time" thing. Will need to have a detailed discussion with her about the options, and we've not set a shooting date yet, so still wide open at this point.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
I enjoy a degree of realism, real situations (TV gameshows, circus acts etc) generally get talked about more here so I guess I'm not alone in that, and the idea that one person gets messy and one doesn't is a far more "realistic" situation if the scene is to be anything other than pure fetish content, which is of course what it is, but having a degree of plausibility to it certainly is my preference!
There's a certain gently sadistic gleefulness to someone dishing out all the mess one-sided which is partially lost if they also get messy - that's the point where the scene breaks character into a more anarchic, less hierarchical, play. Not saying either is bad, I've done both! - but that is a turning point in the scene, almost where it breaks character and becomes a different scene.
Whether that's reflected in preferences and cold hard sales I have absolutely no idea, but I kinda like it. If the gunger gets messy too, that's more of a post credits bonus revenge scene and before long you're abandoning the scene premise and just tipping buckets over each other because it's fun. (There's a space for that too, and sometimes even right after - it's just a different vibe!)
Whether that's reflected in preferences and cold hard sales I have absolutely no idea, but I kinda like it. If the gunger gets messy too, that's more of a post credits bonus revenge scene and before long you're abandoning the scene premise and just tipping buckets over each other because it's fun. (There's a space for that too, and sometimes even right after - it's just a different vibe!)
Personally, I like for The One who Stays Clean (which kind of sounds like an Eldritch god or something when written like that) to get messy strictly through collateral damage. Whatever mess they're applying or instigating, they aren't the primary target but splatters/splashes/etc manage to slowly dot them up over time. 
Hmm.
CreamMeAgain said: I love seeing one person take all the mess! I'm into the Dom/sub aspect of messy play, and it also hits that humiliation aspect that I'm also into, so it's fun to see only one person take all the pies to the face while one person gets incredibly unrecognizable with mess!
(writes in a Moleskin..). Noted.
Knickerslopperglory said: I enjoy a degree of realism, real situations (TV gameshows, circus acts etc) generally get talked about more here so I guess I'm not alone in that, and the idea that one person gets messy and one doesn't is a far more "realistic" situation if the scene is to be anything other than pure fetish content, which is of course what it is, but having a degree of plausibility to it certainly is my preference!
That makes a lot of sense. And so far, "stays completely clean" has a clear lead in the poll, interestingly with the "abomination" vote second! Followed by "clean during but messy afterwards" and finally "gets a bit messy" trailing in last.
I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy. So we'll alsmost certainly do one scene that way, and definitely do at least one "stays completely clean" one too. But interesting how the poll differes from my initial expectations.
TBH that's happened before, I've always thought if you have a nice lass in skin-tight sportswear then the front "crotch-view" is sexier than the back "bum view" (both are hot but to me the front is hotter), however an illustrated poll on the subject came down the other way, people were more into bum views. I've kept that in mind since, and make a careful point of catching good bum shots, as well as crotch ones, now.
Cases like that are where UMD polls can be really useful to find out preferences, the trick is making the poll appeal to a wide range of people, so you get a well balanced view.
AnaraMess said: There's a certain gently sadistic gleefulness to someone dishing out all the mess one-sided which is partially lost if they also get messy - that's the point where the scene breaks character into a more anarchic, less hierarchical, play. Not saying either is bad, I've done both! - but that is a turning point in the scene, almost where it breaks character and becomes a different scene.
Whether that's reflected in preferences and cold hard sales I have absolutely no idea, but I kinda like it. If the gunger gets messy too, that's more of a post credits bonus revenge scene and before long you're abandoning the scene premise and just tipping buckets over each other because it's fun. (There's a space for that too, and sometimes even right after - it's just a different vibe!)
Whether that's reflected in preferences and cold hard sales I have absolutely no idea, but I kinda like it. If the gunger gets messy too, that's more of a post credits bonus revenge scene and before long you're abandoning the scene premise and just tipping buckets over each other because it's fun. (There's a space for that too, and sometimes even right after - it's just a different vibe!)
Yep, that makes a lot of sense, and the "stays completely clean" option is well in the lead in the poll at the moment. I'm kind of assuming at least one of the scenes we shoot will have Daisy in either PVC or spandex and staying completely clean throughout while dishing it out in style to the others.
Randyrex said: If there is a clearly most/more attractive girl she should always get messy. And I'm not talking about these pie to the stomach, rubbing arms with pudding like it's lotion messy vids that somehow get produced. I would rather have salmonella poisoning than watch the homely girl get a pie in the face while the hot girl's face stays clean.
The thing to remember is everyone has their own idea of what counts as hot / attractive, and trying to rank people ion a scene like that is at best misguided and could be deeply offensive.
Must admit I've never really understood the pure pie-in-the-face side of WAM, at least not as something sexy. Done in slapstick comedy it can be utterly hilarious, but if the clothes don't get messy, then from a WAM POV, I don't get it. I'd far rather see a nicely dressed woman pied in her bottom, or crotch, or chest, or sitting on a cake, or having stuff poured into her cleavage. A full messy shampoo and final face pour at the end of a scene, to fully finish someone off, sure - we do that at the end of every scene, and when doing food scenes we specifically put a couple of cartons of custard per-model aside specifically for the final custard shampoo and face-pour, just to make sure they don't get used elsewhere by accident.
We have done pie-face scenes, with deliberately very sloppy pies so the results will flow down over the recipients clothes making them messier as each additional pie is delivered. But personally I'll always prefer clean faces so you can see the girls' reactions as other areas of their bodies and outfits go from clean and dry to wet and messy.
RdBd said: Personally, I like for The One who Stays Clean (which kind of sounds like an Eldritch god or something when written like that) to get messy strictly through collateral damage. Whatever mess they're applying or instigating, they aren't the primary target but splatters/splashes/etc manage to slowly dot them up over time.
The One Who Stays Clean - almighty Cthulhu's lesser known female companion, who lies dead-dreaming with him in his house at R'leyh...
TBH if Daisy does a scene in PVC she probably will get some side-splashes at least lower down, which will show on the outfit as they can't soak in and dissapate as they would on fabric.
juliesboy said: My view is a simple one - the more girls getting messy, the better. Save one till the end, if you wish, but get her messy before the lights go off.
I know where you're coming from but that would defeat the "one stays clean" idea, and as a few folk have said above, that's something some people actively want to see. Don't worry, our mainline scenes will always be "eveyone gets totally messy", but it's interesting to experiment with different ideas and concepts too.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
For most of us I think this fetish was sparked by the sub/dom elements that get woven into what would otherwise be purely somatic play.
In messy gameshows the identification with being a "loser" goes hand in hand with not only a "punishment" but one that literally sticks to you. Messy humiliation is a turn on because it reduces the loser. The more mess is directed at one person the more that one person is comparatively reduced.
Honestly, "high stakes games" would probably be most lucrative for producers; The "loser takes all" model effectively increases excitement. The tease of the unknown keeps gamblers addicted to gambling. Similarly, not knowing which model is going to get disproportionately trashed ropes audiences in, as well as the models, increasing emotional charge and natural reactions.
True submission is irresistibly sexy and feminine. Any woman willing to have all the attention on her while she submits in a scene is a superwoman to me
I love to see as much disproportion as possible
In messy gameshows the identification with being a "loser" goes hand in hand with not only a "punishment" but one that literally sticks to you. Messy humiliation is a turn on because it reduces the loser. The more mess is directed at one person the more that one person is comparatively reduced.
Honestly, "high stakes games" would probably be most lucrative for producers; The "loser takes all" model effectively increases excitement. The tease of the unknown keeps gamblers addicted to gambling. Similarly, not knowing which model is going to get disproportionately trashed ropes audiences in, as well as the models, increasing emotional charge and natural reactions.
True submission is irresistibly sexy and feminine. Any woman willing to have all the attention on her while she submits in a scene is a superwoman to me
I love to see as much disproportion as possible
It can be tantalising sometimes wondering if the clean model will get messy. For me it can be frustrating to see an attractive model staying clean as it seems like such a waste 
Sometimes you will see someone look perfect for getting messed up but then they avoid it and are not seen in that outfit again 
When I did customs with MostWam I would occasionally script it so Charlotte would get gunged or pied at the end as "revenge" from the model she had been messing up
For me I would rather no-one stayed clean as I am here to see women get messy However I understand there will be people who do like the staying clean based scenario, and there is more than enough room for all of us and what we want to see
Sometimes you will see someone look perfect for getting messed up but then they avoid it and are not seen in that outfit again When I did customs with MostWam I would occasionally script it so Charlotte would get gunged or pied at the end as "revenge" from the model she had been messing up
For me I would rather no-one stayed clean as I am here to see women get messy
However I understand there will be people who do like the staying clean based scenario, and there is more than enough room for all of us and what we want to see DungeonMasterOne said:
I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy.
I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy.
This sounds amazing actually. I love this approach. If she happens to be wearing a swimsuit that's filled while keeping the exterior mostly clean, that would be even better.
Also, for everyone suggesting that the clean girl get "a little messy" at the end.... That's a great idea! And ten years ago, it would've been doable!
In 2023, "a little messy" equals "I want the full rate for doing this scene." Which is gonna be $300 or more now. Doesn't make it worth it for me, honestly.
So in case you're wondering why one girl might get messy and the other stay clean... and then vice versa.... Often I can negotiate a "2 scenes for 1 deal" that way. Usually if the second girl doesn't have to shower or redo makeup and can just wipe some stray splatter from her arms, she's OK with that arrangement.
In 2023, "a little messy" equals "I want the full rate for doing this scene." Which is gonna be $300 or more now. Doesn't make it worth it for me, honestly.
So in case you're wondering why one girl might get messy and the other stay clean... and then vice versa.... Often I can negotiate a "2 scenes for 1 deal" that way. Usually if the second girl doesn't have to shower or redo makeup and can just wipe some stray splatter from her arms, she's OK with that arrangement.
It all depends on her character. If she's playing high status, or annoying in some way, then we would like to see her get a messy comeuppance. If on the other hand, she's playing a character that's nice, or expected to get messy, then keeping her clean makes it more embarrassing for the other characters that do get messy.
DungeonMasterOne said:
So one face-only, and the other completely trashed? Interesting variation.
CreamMeAgain said: I love seeing one person take all the mess! I'm into the Dom/sub aspect of messy play, and it also hits that humiliation aspect that I'm also into, so it's fun to see only one person take all the pies to the face while one person gets incredibly unrecognizable with mess!
So one face-only, and the other completely trashed? Interesting variation.
Ugh, I didn't realize that I made such a literary blunder at the end there
I meant one person stays clean while the other becomes unrecognizable with mess.DungeonMasterOne said:
I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy. So we'll alsmost certainly do one scene that way, and definitely do at least one "stays completely clean" one too. But interesting how the poll differes from my initial expectations.
I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy. So we'll alsmost certainly do one scene that way, and definitely do at least one "stays completely clean" one too. But interesting how the poll differes from my initial expectations.
I didn't vote for this option (because I only get one vote - where's my ranked choice system!), but I do agree with you. To get nerdy for a second, I think this would be a fun and interesting producing challenge, too, because it feels like it'd require its own way of setting up shots, pacing the scene, and so on. I look forward to seeing what you do with the idea
Promethereal said: For most of us I think this fetish was sparked by the sub/dom elements that get woven into what would otherwise be purely somatic play.
In messy gameshows the identification with being a "loser" goes hand in hand with not only a "punishment" but one that literally sticks to you. Messy humiliation is a turn on because it reduces the loser. The more mess is directed at one person the more that one person is comparatively reduced.
Honestly, "high stakes games" would probably be most lucrative for producers; The "loser takes all" model effectively increases excitement. The tease of the unknown keeps gamblers addicted to gambling. Similarly, not knowing which model is going to get disproportionately trashed ropes audiences in, as well as the models, increasing emotional charge and natural reactions.
True submission is irresistibly sexy and feminine. Any woman willing to have all the attention on her while she submits in a scene is a superwoman to me
I love to see as much disproportion as possible
In messy gameshows the identification with being a "loser" goes hand in hand with not only a "punishment" but one that literally sticks to you. Messy humiliation is a turn on because it reduces the loser. The more mess is directed at one person the more that one person is comparatively reduced.
Honestly, "high stakes games" would probably be most lucrative for producers; The "loser takes all" model effectively increases excitement. The tease of the unknown keeps gamblers addicted to gambling. Similarly, not knowing which model is going to get disproportionately trashed ropes audiences in, as well as the models, increasing emotional charge and natural reactions.
True submission is irresistibly sexy and feminine. Any woman willing to have all the attention on her while she submits in a scene is a superwoman to me
I love to see as much disproportion as possible
Interesting take and I suspect that does apply for a lot of people, though to varying degrees. I've always like the idea of the "willing victim" who secretely really wants to get messy and knows she'll really enjoy it, so she quite happily enters a situation where she knows there's no way out clean.
The whole ethos of Saturation Hall is that all of our people actively enjoy getting messy, it's never really a punishment though we do occasionally play with that concept. Think of all of Honeysuckle's wonderful faux outrage reactions as stuff is poured into her clothes, when it's obvious that in reality she's really enjoying how it feels as the gloop flows down inside.
But I can see that having someone quite deliberately staying clean and knowing she isn't going to face any repercussions will add an entirely new dynamic and definitely bring more of as D/s vibe. Will be interesting to play with the concept.
EnglishGent said: It can be tantalising sometimes wondering if the clean model will get messy. For me it can be frustrating to see an attractive model staying clean as it seems like such a waste Sometimes you will see someone look perfect for getting messed up but then they avoid it and are not seen in that outfit again
When I did customs with MostWam I would occasionally script it so Charlotte would get gunged or pied at the end as "revenge" from the model she had been messing up
Sometimes you will see someone look perfect for getting messed up but then they avoid it and are not seen in that outfit again When I did customs with MostWam I would occasionally script it so Charlotte would get gunged or pied at the end as "revenge" from the model she had been messing up
Interesting that MW keeps coming up, shows just how large an influence they had. I do remembner not long before the fall they released a scene where one model, in PVC (or possibly rubber?) dungarees, messed someone else up, and it emerged afterwards that the lass in the very kinky outfit had stayed completely clean - what a monumental missed opportunity.
The thing that frustrated me about the long-ago producer with the clean girls in nice jeans and the messy ones in horrible skimpy rubbish was that the clean girls never got gunged in the nice outfits, only in the horrid ones. It was so frustrating!
One thing you can be sure of with us, whatever outfits Daisy wears to stay clean in, you will see the same outfits being totally messed up by some of our other people in different scenes. As far as humanly possible, I'd never show an outfit and then not have it soaked or messed by someone.
EnglishGent said: For me I would rather no-one stayed clean as I am here to see women get messy However I understand there will be people who do like the staying clean based scenario, and there is more than enough room for all of us and what we want to see
However I understand there will be people who do like the staying clean based scenario, and there is more than enough room for all of us and what we want to see Mainly I'm the same - I want to see everyone get messy every time, but the combination of model availability and previous conversations with the Rev have persuaded me to try this as an experiment.
ABGamma said:
This sounds amazing actually. I love this approach. If she happens to be wearing a swimsuit that's filled while keeping the exterior mostly clean, that would be even better.
DungeonMasterOne said:
I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy.
I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy.
This sounds amazing actually. I love this approach. If she happens to be wearing a swimsuit that's filled while keeping the exterior mostly clean, that would be even better.
Swimsuit filling, with the swimsuit worn under clothes, had crossed my mind in this regard, though will depend on what Daisy's comfortable doing. Way back when she was first here she did actually do a swimsuit filling for us: https://saturationhall.umd.net/download_info/daisys-swimsuit-filling
Could work under a sports or fashion jumpsuit - or even tracksuit trousers as long as she remembers to pull the waistband out each time the suit is filled - the poured in gloop accumulates in the bottom of the swimsuit and then starts to leak out and slow-trashes her jumpsuit or trackpants from the inside, as she walks around, with growing staining and soaking-through spreading from her crotch.
TBH if not done as one of the OSC scenes, we might well do the "starting to get each other's clothes messy by filling the swimsuit worn underneath" idea as the begining of a mainline messy scene at some point anyway.
SlapstickStuff said: Also, for everyone suggesting that the clean girl get "a little messy" at the end.... That's a great idea! And ten years ago, it would've been doable!
In 2023, "a little messy" equals "I want the full rate for doing this scene." Which is gonna be $300 or more now. Doesn't make it worth it for me, honestly.
So in case you're wondering why one girl might get messy and the other stay clean... and then vice versa.... Often I can negotiate a "2 scenes for 1 deal" that way. Usually if the second girl doesn't have to shower or redo makeup and can just wipe some stray splatter from her arms, she's OK with that arrangement.
In 2023, "a little messy" equals "I want the full rate for doing this scene." Which is gonna be $300 or more now. Doesn't make it worth it for me, honestly.
So in case you're wondering why one girl might get messy and the other stay clean... and then vice versa.... Often I can negotiate a "2 scenes for 1 deal" that way. Usually if the second girl doesn't have to shower or redo makeup and can just wipe some stray splatter from her arms, she's OK with that arrangement.
TBH Daisy has offered to work for reduced fees for keeping her head clean. I'm planning to offer 1/2 the usual shoot fee for "stays entirely clean", and 3/4 for "gets messy from the waist down. It wouldn't feel right paying full fee for someone who isn't having their hair messy-shampooed when other people in the same scene are, but at the same time if she's getting actually messy then she needs to be reasonably compensated for it.
Itchy_Nugat said: It all depends on her character. If she's playing high status, or annoying in some way, then we would like to see her get a messy comeuppance. If on the other hand, she's playing a character that's nice, or expected to get messy, then keeping her clean makes it more embarrassing for the other characters that do get messy.
Now that's an interesting thought, hadn't considered it from that angle. Something else to add to the mix, cool.
CreamMeAgain said:
Ugh, I didn't realize that I made such a literary blunder at the end there I meant one person stays clean while the other becomes unrecognizable with mess.
DungeonMasterOne said:
So one face-only, and the other completely trashed? Interesting variation.
CreamMeAgain said: so it's fun to see only one person take all the pies to the face while one person gets incredibly unrecognizable with mess!
So one face-only, and the other completely trashed? Interesting variation.
Ugh, I didn't realize that I made such a literary blunder at the end there
I meant one person stays clean while the other becomes unrecognizable with mess. Aha, OK, that makes more sense in the context. And no worries, easy to do!
larryniven said:
I didn't vote for this option (because I only get one vote - where's my ranked choice system!), but I do agree with you. To get nerdy for a second, I think this would be a fun and interesting producing challenge, too, because it feels like it'd require its own way of setting up shots, pacing the scene, and so on. I look forward to seeing what you do with the idea
DungeonMasterOne said: I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy. So we'll alsmost certainly do one scene that way, and definitely do at least one "stays completely clean" one too. But interesting how the poll differes from my initial expectations.
I didn't vote for this option (because I only get one vote - where's my ranked choice system!), but I do agree with you. To get nerdy for a second, I think this would be a fun and interesting producing challenge, too, because it feels like it'd require its own way of setting up shots, pacing the scene, and so on. I look forward to seeing what you do with the idea
I'm with you on the advantages of a ranked preferences vote system, keep meaning to run up some experimental demos on my webserver to see how the coding needs to work, and then perhaps share them with MM.
Interestingly, overnight the order has switched round, "stays completely clean" is still well in the lead, but "gets a bit messy" is now second, "clean during but messy after" is third, and the abomination vote is in fourth place. The poll runs till Monday coming so will be interesting to see the final result. Definitely do want to do at least one of the "gets partly messy" options, assuming Daisy's OK with them.
While still very much in the early planning stages, I'm kind of thinking we'll do:
One "stays completely clean" scene. One "trashes contestants but has to sit in ever-growing mess between turns" scene. One "assistant with well filled underwear" scene. And possibly a final "covered in mess from the waist down" extra scene done on the end. Obviously this is entirely speculative at this stage and will depend on people's availability, and happiness with the ideas, but this is definitely something I'd like to do if possible.
Really loving all the comments so far, please keep 'em coming!
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
Promethereal said: For most of us I think this fetish was sparked by the sub/dom elements that get woven into what would otherwise be purely somatic play.
In messy gameshows the identification with being a "loser" goes hand in hand with not only a "punishment" but one that literally sticks to you. Messy humiliation is a turn on because it reduces the loser. The more mess is directed at one person the more that one person is comparatively reduced.
Honestly, "high stakes games" would probably be most lucrative for producers; The "loser takes all" model effectively increases excitement. The tease of the unknown keeps gamblers addicted to gambling. Similarly, not knowing which model is going to get disproportionately trashed ropes audiences in, as well as the models, increasing emotional charge and natural reactions.
True submission is irresistibly sexy and feminine. Any woman willing to have all the attention on her while she submits in a scene is a superwoman to me
I love to see as much disproportion as possible
In messy gameshows the identification with being a "loser" goes hand in hand with not only a "punishment" but one that literally sticks to you. Messy humiliation is a turn on because it reduces the loser. The more mess is directed at one person the more that one person is comparatively reduced.
Honestly, "high stakes games" would probably be most lucrative for producers; The "loser takes all" model effectively increases excitement. The tease of the unknown keeps gamblers addicted to gambling. Similarly, not knowing which model is going to get disproportionately trashed ropes audiences in, as well as the models, increasing emotional charge and natural reactions.
True submission is irresistibly sexy and feminine. Any woman willing to have all the attention on her while she submits in a scene is a superwoman to me
I love to see as much disproportion as possible
Interesting take and I suspect that does apply for a lot of people, though to varying degrees. I've always like the idea of the "willing victim" who secretely really wants to get messy and knows she'll really enjoy it, so she quite happily enters a situation where she knows there's no way out clean.
The whole ethos of Saturation Hall is that all of our people actively enjoy getting messy, it's never really a punishment though we do occasionally play with that concept. Think of all of Honeysuckle's wonderful faux outrage reactions as stuff is poured into her clothes, when it's obvious that in reality she's really enjoying how it feels as the gloop flows down inside.
But I can see that having someone quite deliberately staying clean and knowing she isn't going to face any repercussions will add an entirely new dynamic and definitely bring more of as D/s vibe. Will be interesting to play with the concept.
EnglishGent said: It can be tantalising sometimes wondering if the clean model will get messy. For me it can be frustrating to see an attractive model staying clean as it seems like such a waste Sometimes you will see someone look perfect for getting messed up but then they avoid it and are not seen in that outfit again
When I did customs with MostWam I would occasionally script it so Charlotte would get gunged or pied at the end as "revenge" from the model she had been messing up
Sometimes you will see someone look perfect for getting messed up but then they avoid it and are not seen in that outfit again When I did customs with MostWam I would occasionally script it so Charlotte would get gunged or pied at the end as "revenge" from the model she had been messing up
Interesting that MW keeps coming up, shows just how large an influence they had. I do remembner not long before the fall they released a scene where one model, in PVC (or possibly rubber?) dungarees, messed someone else up, and it emerged afterwards that the lass in the very kinky outfit had stayed completely clean - what a monumental missed opportunity.
The thing that frustrated me about the long-ago producer with the clean girls in nice jeans and the messy ones in horrible skimpy rubbish was that the clean girls never got gunged in the nice outfits, only in the horrid ones. It was so frustrating!
One thing you can be sure of with us, whatever outfits Daisy wears to stay clean in, you will see the same outfits being totally messed up by some of our other people in different scenes. As far as humanly possible, I'd never show an outfit and then not have it soaked or messed by someone.
EnglishGent said: For me I would rather no-one stayed clean as I am here to see women get messy However I understand there will be people who do like the staying clean based scenario, and there is more than enough room for all of us and what we want to see
However I understand there will be people who do like the staying clean based scenario, and there is more than enough room for all of us and what we want to see Mainly I'm the same - I want to see everyone get messy every time, but the combination of model availability and previous conversations with the Rev have persuaded me to try this as an experiment.
ABGamma said:
This sounds amazing actually. I love this approach. If she happens to be wearing a swimsuit that's filled while keeping the exterior mostly clean, that would be even better.
DungeonMasterOne said:
I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy.
I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy.
This sounds amazing actually. I love this approach. If she happens to be wearing a swimsuit that's filled while keeping the exterior mostly clean, that would be even better.
Swimsuit filling, with the swimsuit worn under clothes, had crossed my mind in this regard, though will depend on what Daisy's comfortable doing. Way back when she was first here she did actually do a swimsuit filling for us: https://saturationhall.umd.net/download_info/daisys-swimsuit-filling
Could work under a sports or fashion jumpsuit - or even tracksuit trousers as long as she remembers to pull the waistband out each time the suit is filled - the poured in gloop accumulates in the bottom of the swimsuit and then starts to leak out and slow-trashes her jumpsuit or trackpants from the inside, as she walks around, with growing staining and soaking-through spreading from her crotch.
TBH if not done as one of the OSC scenes, we might well do the "starting to get each other's clothes messy by filling the swimsuit worn underneath" idea as the begining of a mainline messy scene at some point anyway.
SlapstickStuff said: Also, for everyone suggesting that the clean girl get "a little messy" at the end.... That's a great idea! And ten years ago, it would've been doable!
In 2023, "a little messy" equals "I want the full rate for doing this scene." Which is gonna be $300 or more now. Doesn't make it worth it for me, honestly.
So in case you're wondering why one girl might get messy and the other stay clean... and then vice versa.... Often I can negotiate a "2 scenes for 1 deal" that way. Usually if the second girl doesn't have to shower or redo makeup and can just wipe some stray splatter from her arms, she's OK with that arrangement.
In 2023, "a little messy" equals "I want the full rate for doing this scene." Which is gonna be $300 or more now. Doesn't make it worth it for me, honestly.
So in case you're wondering why one girl might get messy and the other stay clean... and then vice versa.... Often I can negotiate a "2 scenes for 1 deal" that way. Usually if the second girl doesn't have to shower or redo makeup and can just wipe some stray splatter from her arms, she's OK with that arrangement.
TBH Daisy has offered to work for reduced fees for keeping her head clean. I'm planning to offer 1/2 the usual shoot fee for "stays entirely clean", and 3/4 for "gets messy from the waist down. It wouldn't feel right paying full fee for someone who isn't having their hair messy-shampooed when other people in the same scene are, but at the same time if she's getting actually messy then she needs to be reasonably compensated for it.
Itchy_Nugat said: It all depends on her character. If she's playing high status, or annoying in some way, then we would like to see her get a messy comeuppance. If on the other hand, she's playing a character that's nice, or expected to get messy, then keeping her clean makes it more embarrassing for the other characters that do get messy.
Now that's an interesting thought, hadn't considered it from that angle. Something else to add to the mix, cool.
CreamMeAgain said:
Ugh, I didn't realize that I made such a literary blunder at the end there I meant one person stays clean while the other becomes unrecognizable with mess.
DungeonMasterOne said:
So one face-only, and the other completely trashed? Interesting variation.
CreamMeAgain said: so it's fun to see only one person take all the pies to the face while one person gets incredibly unrecognizable with mess!
So one face-only, and the other completely trashed? Interesting variation.
Ugh, I didn't realize that I made such a literary blunder at the end there
I meant one person stays clean while the other becomes unrecognizable with mess. Aha, OK, that makes more sense in the context. And no worries, easy to do!
larryniven said:
I didn't vote for this option (because I only get one vote - where's my ranked choice system!), but I do agree with you. To get nerdy for a second, I think this would be a fun and interesting producing challenge, too, because it feels like it'd require its own way of setting up shots, pacing the scene, and so on. I look forward to seeing what you do with the idea
DungeonMasterOne said: I'm actually surprised "gets a bit messy" isn't more popular, as from a personal POV once I started to think about this in more detail, the idea of an assistant who is otherwise clean but has her knickers filled with mess, either cake and syrup, which she'll really feel squidging about but won't leak much, or custard, which will leak through and drip down her legs and all over the inside of her skirt or trousers, and which could even get topped up periodically during the scene, is seriously sexy. So we'll alsmost certainly do one scene that way, and definitely do at least one "stays completely clean" one too. But interesting how the poll differes from my initial expectations.
I didn't vote for this option (because I only get one vote - where's my ranked choice system!), but I do agree with you. To get nerdy for a second, I think this would be a fun and interesting producing challenge, too, because it feels like it'd require its own way of setting up shots, pacing the scene, and so on. I look forward to seeing what you do with the idea
I'm with you on the advantages of a ranked preferences vote system, keep meaning to run up some experimental demos on my webserver to see how the coding needs to work, and then perhaps share them with MM.
Interestingly, overnight the order has switched round, "stays completely clean" is still well in the lead, but "gets a bit messy" is now second, "clean during but messy after" is third, and the abomination vote is in fourth place. The poll runs till Monday coming so will be interesting to see the final result. Definitely do want to do at least one of the "gets partly messy" options, assuming Daisy's OK with them.
While still very much in the early planning stages, I'm kind of thinking we'll do:
One "stays completely clean" scene. One "trashes contestants but has to sit in ever-growing mess between turns" scene. One "assistant with well filled underwear" scene. And possibly a final "covered in mess from the waist down" extra scene done on the end.Obviously this is entirely speculative at this stage and will depend on people's availability, and happiness with the ideas, but this is definitely something I'd like to do if possible.
Really loving all the comments so far, please keep 'em coming!
Note: The forum was showing 2 pages but Page 2 was blank, with the last post actually on Page 1. Reposting a second copy of that last post to avoid confusing people with the blank page.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
