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"Has UMD had its day? Debate."
Love you, too
I've been a member on and off for a number of years within this community, however, the last couple of years has, for me personally, seen UMD die a death. All the major WAM "models" have either left, don't post regularly, are involved in drama which inevitably makes its way to forums, or some other reason. Whilst not for me admittedly, half the site is bombarded with AI/synthetic images.
The main WAM models nowadays are more active on OnlyFans generally (again, not for me). I used to love coming on here, seeing new models open up to a new fetish, posting about how much fun they have. It seems now that any new "model" only wants to profiteer from their pics and vids.
Can completely forget talking to someone if you're a guy seeking a female about a mutual fetish and who knows one day maybe meet up - Fet is far easier for this.
What does everyone think? (There are exceptions, MessyGirl, Hotwam I'm looking at you as examples)
The main WAM models nowadays are more active on OnlyFans generally (again, not for me). I used to love coming on here, seeing new models open up to a new fetish, posting about how much fun they have. It seems now that any new "model" only wants to profiteer from their pics and vids.
Can completely forget talking to someone if you're a guy seeking a female about a mutual fetish and who knows one day maybe meet up - Fet is far easier for this.
What does everyone think? (There are exceptions, MessyGirl, Hotwam I'm looking at you as examples)
3/12/25, 9:16am: moved from Messy to Non-Wam
Hi! UMD'er for 26.5 years,here!
While UMD has it's ebbs and flows, I still consider it an invaluable hub for this fetish.
While UMD has it's ebbs and flows, I still consider it an invaluable hub for this fetish.
Oh Janet! You look so funny!!!
I am noticing this trend even on Instagram. A lot of the models there are spending more time on OnlyFans to build an elite following of 'paid followers', especially the typical housewife trying to make money from home.
I still think that UMD is a great place to meet people who are like minded but then again I am new but have been familiar with the site for a long time. One thing I have noticed on the Internet is that websites tend to 'ebb and flow' in popularity. Look at Myspace and all the many social media sites that lost followers due to Facebook, now TikTok, Instagram and other sites are competing, especially for paid influencers trying to make money.
If the goal is to make money, then you will find the women on the paid sites. If the goal is to create content and build community, I think you will still find people here, at least that is my experience.
I still think that UMD is a great place to meet people who are like minded but then again I am new but have been familiar with the site for a long time. One thing I have noticed on the Internet is that websites tend to 'ebb and flow' in popularity. Look at Myspace and all the many social media sites that lost followers due to Facebook, now TikTok, Instagram and other sites are competing, especially for paid influencers trying to make money.
If the goal is to make money, then you will find the women on the paid sites. If the goal is to create content and build community, I think you will still find people here, at least that is my experience.
I think the expansion of the UMD user base over the years has had some unintended consequences. For me, I learned that I'm not nearly as interested in everybody else's WAM fetish as I am my own. So nowadays the only threads I click on are either meta threads about the UMD (like this one), threads about the business/creativity of WAM, or threads about clothes filling. 90% of threads here are very much not that.
Then the UMD has made it so that anyone can throw an mp4 on their store and call themselves a producer, which I know sounds very gatekeep-y. But I'm sorry: if the quality of WAM videos has gone down due to a lower barrier of entry--and it has--I'm not going to want to stick around to see how much lower it can go.
Bottom line, I don't want to take away from anything MM has built. I don't care how niche WAM is. To have your site be the definitive resource for all things WAM is outstanding. But in practice it's an ever-growing sausage fest of poor social skills and fly-by-night bathroom shooters churning out poor content. IMHO, not quite the attractive proposition compared to when there were fewer of us but everyone knew how to write in complete sentences and those who tried to make their own content put an honest effort into it.
Then the UMD has made it so that anyone can throw an mp4 on their store and call themselves a producer, which I know sounds very gatekeep-y. But I'm sorry: if the quality of WAM videos has gone down due to a lower barrier of entry--and it has--I'm not going to want to stick around to see how much lower it can go.
Bottom line, I don't want to take away from anything MM has built. I don't care how niche WAM is. To have your site be the definitive resource for all things WAM is outstanding. But in practice it's an ever-growing sausage fest of poor social skills and fly-by-night bathroom shooters churning out poor content. IMHO, not quite the attractive proposition compared to when there were fewer of us but everyone knew how to write in complete sentences and those who tried to make their own content put an honest effort into it.
Check out Project 20M on IG! @Project20M
I've never come here to see models or videos. I come here as it's a safe place to talk to other people with similar interests.
Yes, it has.
1. Been a user for 22 years on and off, my wife used to have an account too. The last 15 years and the transformation of the forums from a chat forum and platform to plug subscription sites with samples, to a download hub which aimed to be the internet's central WAM porn shop (so that the owner could take passive income from it), has over time brought it to its knees. Year after year there have been layers upon layers of increasingly draconian rules enforced upon regular users in order to appease the mysterious 'paymasters' who administrate transactions, without ever consulting users as to whether the tradeoff is acceptable to them, all so the site can take its percentage cut. When the 'no references to kids shows that haven't been on for over 20 years anyway and which no kids alive today have ever heard of' rule came in that was harsh enough, but the requirements for the ID verification were a step too far for a lot of people - we are in a situation now where amateurs cannot post material here unless they send a stranger on the internet highly sensitive documents through a non-encrypted network. Well of course it's in decline. A chat forum for a sexual fetish that is supposed to promote sensory liberation is now unbearably hostile and chilling for any wannabe contributors.
2. Harassment to female members. Still happening, still terrible, still being swept under the carpet. Still living under the cloud of producers having their transgressions covered up and being treated favourably because they brought/bring in income to UMD - the reason a lot of prominent female members fled a few years ago never to return. The more money you bring in, the more you get away with.
3. Being a pirate's/trader's dream. Because UMD's download based business model is still stuck in the 2000s, and based around non-DRM-protected downloads of uncompressed clones of the ACTUAL MASTER FILES of scenes, in a new world where dozens of tube sites exist, it is the source of most of the web's pirated WAM content. It takes one person to buy one scene off here once, upload it to a tube site (they don't need verification of course), and it's there pretty much forever on sites much more mainstream than this. This piracy vulnerability is continually stated by new producers/members (esp female ones) as a reason for quitting or deleting stores and moving to streaming subscription models like OnlyFans. Nothing is done about it. There was lip service once about a reporting network, but that was when there was one big tube site - now there are two dozen sites about that cannot be contacted about removals. And all the files originate from the download stores on here.
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
5. Zero engagement. Because all the casual users have been scared off, and all the women get harrassed, posts hardly ever get replies anyway. So if a girl WERE to send a scan of their passport and bank statements to the site in order to upload something, they would have no positive engagement (the replies used to go onto multiple pages!), except the four guys who would message to harrass them, and the one sleaze who buys the sole copy of the scene to pirate on Reddit where somebody puts it on a widely seen tube site where it cannot be taken down. Worth it? No wonder they're all on OnlyFans or TikTok.
The site has been dying for years. It's pretty much done for now.
1. Been a user for 22 years on and off, my wife used to have an account too. The last 15 years and the transformation of the forums from a chat forum and platform to plug subscription sites with samples, to a download hub which aimed to be the internet's central WAM porn shop (so that the owner could take passive income from it), has over time brought it to its knees. Year after year there have been layers upon layers of increasingly draconian rules enforced upon regular users in order to appease the mysterious 'paymasters' who administrate transactions, without ever consulting users as to whether the tradeoff is acceptable to them, all so the site can take its percentage cut. When the 'no references to kids shows that haven't been on for over 20 years anyway and which no kids alive today have ever heard of' rule came in that was harsh enough, but the requirements for the ID verification were a step too far for a lot of people - we are in a situation now where amateurs cannot post material here unless they send a stranger on the internet highly sensitive documents through a non-encrypted network. Well of course it's in decline. A chat forum for a sexual fetish that is supposed to promote sensory liberation is now unbearably hostile and chilling for any wannabe contributors.
2. Harassment to female members. Still happening, still terrible, still being swept under the carpet. Still living under the cloud of producers having their transgressions covered up and being treated favourably because they brought/bring in income to UMD - the reason a lot of prominent female members fled a few years ago never to return. The more money you bring in, the more you get away with.
3. Being a pirate's/trader's dream. Because UMD's download based business model is still stuck in the 2000s, and based around non-DRM-protected downloads of uncompressed clones of the ACTUAL MASTER FILES of scenes, in a new world where dozens of tube sites exist, it is the source of most of the web's pirated WAM content. It takes one person to buy one scene off here once, upload it to a tube site (they don't need verification of course), and it's there pretty much forever on sites much more mainstream than this. This piracy vulnerability is continually stated by new producers/members (esp female ones) as a reason for quitting or deleting stores and moving to streaming subscription models like OnlyFans. Nothing is done about it. There was lip service once about a reporting network, but that was when there was one big tube site - now there are two dozen sites about that cannot be contacted about removals. And all the files originate from the download stores on here.
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
5. Zero engagement. Because all the casual users have been scared off, and all the women get harrassed, posts hardly ever get replies anyway. So if a girl WERE to send a scan of their passport and bank statements to the site in order to upload something, they would have no positive engagement (the replies used to go onto multiple pages!), except the four guys who would message to harrass them, and the one sleaze who buys the sole copy of the scene to pirate on Reddit where somebody puts it on a widely seen tube site where it cannot be taken down. Worth it? No wonder they're all on OnlyFans or TikTok.
The site has been dying for years. It's pretty much done for now.
Yep, once producers who were creeps were protected here that was about the last gasp among a lot of folks.
I pretty much keep an account to give likes on pictures on occasion to somewhat keep folks around and that's very rare now. I've left multiple times for how some producers talk to others on here, but always come back since it was the first place I ever found a community.
I pretty much keep an account to give likes on pictures on occasion to somewhat keep folks around and that's very rare now. I've left multiple times for how some producers talk to others on here, but always come back since it was the first place I ever found a community.
tengallon said:
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
Underrated point. And this is the tradeoff of opening your site--and aforementioned passive income generator--to more and more people. Yeah, kink-shaming is wrong but fuuuuuuuuuuuck if I ever show UMD to anyone anymore as an example of WAM. I cringe whenever I share any of my work here because why the hell would I want my relatively-tame-in-comparison content sharing space with gross-out brutal imagery? You can make your tent as big as possible, but guilt by association still matters to some.
Check out Project 20M on IG! @Project20M
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
You can easily remove all the AI content if you don't want to see it:
Go to the Messy Forum
Top-right of the screen you'll see three pull-downs, one for gender, one for synthetic/natural, and one for explicit or not.
Set the middle one to "natural". All correctly tagged AI content will now be blocked, which will remove 99% of it from your view. And if you find any AI content that isn't tagged, click the Report link on it and let the mods know, we'll sort it.
As to the rest, the world has changed over the last three decades and UMD has changed with it. The on-line fetish environment in 2025 is very different to what it was in 1998, and the biggest change is that it is now much easier for models to self-produce and run their own stores instead of having to rely on (mostly male) producers to do all the technical stuff. Though having said that, some of the people I work with have specifically said they prefer to have the protection of a male producer between them and the world at large, to fend off all the inappropriate messaging and exhausting bad chat-up attempts disguised as custom enquiries that they'd otherwise have to deal with.
I gather the appeal of OnlyFans and similar sites for self-producing female models is that they can restrict interactions to paying subscribers only, ensuring there is some kind of definite return for the time they put in. Threads here warning new models about time-wasters who'll try and engage them in hours of conversation while never actually buying anything have been a thing for years. We live in a world where everything is monetised, and that's not the fault of UMD, it's just the way the world has moved. TBH a potential way to persuade more female models to return would be if MM set up an arrangement where only subscribers to their content could message or interact with models, or reply to their forum threads. Not sure how feasible that would be with the current codebase though.
I've no idea how effective the personals forum is at helping people to date, while most threads appear on the surface to go unanswered, I gather in fact responding by PM is a big feature there. But the fact is, just about any woman who puts up fetish pics (of any fetish, not just WAM) does so in order to generate sales of content. That doesn't mean there aren't genuine female fetishists out there, but they'll mostly be lurking in the shadows to avoid being run down by the stampede of predators that would happen if they revealed themselves. This is something that young women now are much more aware of than the young women of 20 or 30 years ago were, which is a good thing, though at the same time heartbreaking to realise just how viciously misogynistic an awful lot of society still is. I grew up in the 70s and 80s beleving in total gender equality. Yeah, right.
I've been here since the start but never regarded UMD as a place to meet wam women, but rather somewhere where those of us who have this fetish can be open and honest about it, and make and purchase content. Most of those of us who have "wam partners" didn't meet them here, or on any fetish site, but rather met and hit it off with someone in general life, who then turned out to be open to a wam relationship.
Go to the Messy Forum Top-right of the screen you'll see three pull-downs, one for gender, one for synthetic/natural, and one for explicit or not. Set the middle one to "natural". All correctly tagged AI content will now be blocked, which will remove 99% of it from your view. And if you find any AI content that isn't tagged, click the Report link on it and let the mods know, we'll sort it. As to the rest, the world has changed over the last three decades and UMD has changed with it. The on-line fetish environment in 2025 is very different to what it was in 1998, and the biggest change is that it is now much easier for models to self-produce and run their own stores instead of having to rely on (mostly male) producers to do all the technical stuff. Though having said that, some of the people I work with have specifically said they prefer to have the protection of a male producer between them and the world at large, to fend off all the inappropriate messaging and exhausting bad chat-up attempts disguised as custom enquiries that they'd otherwise have to deal with.
I gather the appeal of OnlyFans and similar sites for self-producing female models is that they can restrict interactions to paying subscribers only, ensuring there is some kind of definite return for the time they put in. Threads here warning new models about time-wasters who'll try and engage them in hours of conversation while never actually buying anything have been a thing for years. We live in a world where everything is monetised, and that's not the fault of UMD, it's just the way the world has moved. TBH a potential way to persuade more female models to return would be if MM set up an arrangement where only subscribers to their content could message or interact with models, or reply to their forum threads. Not sure how feasible that would be with the current codebase though.
I've no idea how effective the personals forum is at helping people to date, while most threads appear on the surface to go unanswered, I gather in fact responding by PM is a big feature there. But the fact is, just about any woman who puts up fetish pics (of any fetish, not just WAM) does so in order to generate sales of content. That doesn't mean there aren't genuine female fetishists out there, but they'll mostly be lurking in the shadows to avoid being run down by the stampede of predators that would happen if they revealed themselves. This is something that young women now are much more aware of than the young women of 20 or 30 years ago were, which is a good thing, though at the same time heartbreaking to realise just how viciously misogynistic an awful lot of society still is. I grew up in the 70s and 80s beleving in total gender equality. Yeah, right.
I've been here since the start but never regarded UMD as a place to meet wam women, but rather somewhere where those of us who have this fetish can be open and honest about it, and make and purchase content. Most of those of us who have "wam partners" didn't meet them here, or on any fetish site, but rather met and hit it off with someone in general life, who then turned out to be open to a wam relationship.
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
tengallon said: Yes, it has.
1. Been a user for 22 years on and off, my wife used to have an account too. The last 15 years and the transformation of the forums from a chat forum and platform to plug subscription sites with samples, to a download hub which aimed to be the internet's central WAM porn shop (so that the owner could take passive income from it), has over time brought it to its knees. Year after year there have been layers upon layers of increasingly draconian rules enforced upon regular users in order to appease the mysterious 'paymasters' who administrate transactions, without ever consulting users as to whether the tradeoff is acceptable to them, all so the site can take its percentage cut. When the 'no references to kids shows that haven't been on for over 20 years anyway and which no kids alive today have ever heard of' rule came in that was harsh enough, but the requirements for the ID verification were a step too far for a lot of people - we are in a situation now where amateurs cannot post material here unless they send a stranger on the internet highly sensitive documents through a non-encrypted network. Well of course it's in decline. A chat forum for a sexual fetish that is supposed to promote sensory liberation is now unbearably hostile and chilling for any wannabe contributors.
2. Harassment to female members. Still happening, still terrible, still being swept under the carpet. Still living under the cloud of producers having their transgressions covered up and being treated favourably because they brought/bring in income to UMD - the reason a lot of prominent female members fled a few years ago never to return. The more money you bring in, the more you get away with.
3. Being a pirate's/trader's dream. Because UMD's download based business model is still stuck in the 2000s, and based around non-DRM-protected downloads of uncompressed clones of the ACTUAL MASTER FILES of scenes, in a new world where dozens of tube sites exist, it is the source of most of the web's pirated WAM content. It takes one person to buy one scene off here once, upload it to a tube site (they don't need verification of course), and it's there pretty much forever on sites much more mainstream than this. This piracy vulnerability is continually stated by new producers/members (esp female ones) as a reason for quitting or deleting stores and moving to streaming subscription models like OnlyFans. Nothing is done about it. There was lip service once about a reporting network, but that was when there was one big tube site - now there are two dozen sites about that cannot be contacted about removals. And all the files originate from the download stores on here.
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
5. Zero engagement. Because all the casual users have been scared off, and all the women get harrassed, posts hardly ever get replies anyway. So if a girl WERE to send a scan of their passport and bank statements to the site in order to upload something, they would have no positive engagement (the replies used to go onto multiple pages!), except the four guys who would message to harrass them, and the one sleaze who buys the sole copy of the scene to pirate on Reddit where somebody puts it on a widely seen tube site where it cannot be taken down. Worth it? No wonder they're all on OnlyFans or TikTok.
The site has been dying for years. It's pretty much done for now.
1. Been a user for 22 years on and off, my wife used to have an account too. The last 15 years and the transformation of the forums from a chat forum and platform to plug subscription sites with samples, to a download hub which aimed to be the internet's central WAM porn shop (so that the owner could take passive income from it), has over time brought it to its knees. Year after year there have been layers upon layers of increasingly draconian rules enforced upon regular users in order to appease the mysterious 'paymasters' who administrate transactions, without ever consulting users as to whether the tradeoff is acceptable to them, all so the site can take its percentage cut. When the 'no references to kids shows that haven't been on for over 20 years anyway and which no kids alive today have ever heard of' rule came in that was harsh enough, but the requirements for the ID verification were a step too far for a lot of people - we are in a situation now where amateurs cannot post material here unless they send a stranger on the internet highly sensitive documents through a non-encrypted network. Well of course it's in decline. A chat forum for a sexual fetish that is supposed to promote sensory liberation is now unbearably hostile and chilling for any wannabe contributors.
2. Harassment to female members. Still happening, still terrible, still being swept under the carpet. Still living under the cloud of producers having their transgressions covered up and being treated favourably because they brought/bring in income to UMD - the reason a lot of prominent female members fled a few years ago never to return. The more money you bring in, the more you get away with.
3. Being a pirate's/trader's dream. Because UMD's download based business model is still stuck in the 2000s, and based around non-DRM-protected downloads of uncompressed clones of the ACTUAL MASTER FILES of scenes, in a new world where dozens of tube sites exist, it is the source of most of the web's pirated WAM content. It takes one person to buy one scene off here once, upload it to a tube site (they don't need verification of course), and it's there pretty much forever on sites much more mainstream than this. This piracy vulnerability is continually stated by new producers/members (esp female ones) as a reason for quitting or deleting stores and moving to streaming subscription models like OnlyFans. Nothing is done about it. There was lip service once about a reporting network, but that was when there was one big tube site - now there are two dozen sites about that cannot be contacted about removals. And all the files originate from the download stores on here.
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
5. Zero engagement. Because all the casual users have been scared off, and all the women get harrassed, posts hardly ever get replies anyway. So if a girl WERE to send a scan of their passport and bank statements to the site in order to upload something, they would have no positive engagement (the replies used to go onto multiple pages!), except the four guys who would message to harrass them, and the one sleaze who buys the sole copy of the scene to pirate on Reddit where somebody puts it on a widely seen tube site where it cannot be taken down. Worth it? No wonder they're all on OnlyFans or TikTok.
The site has been dying for years. It's pretty much done for now.
This is a very good summing up with very valid points.
I remember here as being somewhere to check daily. Now I might look in once or twice a month.
I go straight for the pictures archive to see if there is anything worth looking at. There rarely is these days and it's difficult not be totally cynical about the models and whoever is pulling the strings behind them when there has been bad behaviour from so many. There are producers still on here who various models have said in private they think are pervo's but they needed the money. Occasionally one of these producers gets properly caught out but the aggressive defence of their behaviour has driven models away from here.
When a new model appears you can't help but be suspicious of the true story behind their 'newly discovered love of WAM' . There was one new model in the last couple of years I thought was genuinely into WAM and it wasn't all about the money and recognition but like most in recent times they are unreliable and their prices hugely increased.
The Only Fans type scenario is a much easier and cheaper way to get exactly what you want on a custom without the model pretending they are a lifetime wammer.
Having said all of this I don't think it takes away from the very hard work that it must take to have created a site like UMD and keep it going. It's just that the standard of external content has gone downhill or has becoming repetitive plus so many established names have left,retired or been exposed as awful people.
Sad but true.
What is very noticeable is how infrequently a pie in the face or gunging of a lovely female celebrity on maintream tv happens these days as well.
So I would say the input to the UMD is not what it was but not sure how anybody can control or improve that input.
3/11/25, 10:46pm: [admin] Quotes re-ordered. Please put replies below quoted material, not above it, so that if someone else quotes your quote, the content still reads logically from top to bottom.
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
tengallon said: Yes, it has.
1. Been a user for 22 years on and off, my wife used to have an account too. The last 15 years and the transformation of the forums from a chat forum and platform to plug subscription sites with samples, to a download hub which aimed to be the internet's central WAM porn shop (so that the owner could take passive income from it), has over time brought it to its knees. Year after year there have been layers upon layers of increasingly draconian rules enforced upon regular users in order to appease the mysterious 'paymasters' who administrate transactions, without ever consulting users as to whether the tradeoff is acceptable to them, all so the site can take its percentage cut. When the 'no references to kids shows that haven't been on for over 20 years anyway and which no kids alive today have ever heard of' rule came in that was harsh enough, but the requirements for the ID verification were a step too far for a lot of people - we are in a situation now where amateurs cannot post material here unless they send a stranger on the internet highly sensitive documents through a non-encrypted network. Well of course it's in decline. A chat forum for a sexual fetish that is supposed to promote sensory liberation is now unbearably hostile and chilling for any wannabe contributors.
1. Been a user for 22 years on and off, my wife used to have an account too. The last 15 years and the transformation of the forums from a chat forum and platform to plug subscription sites with samples, to a download hub which aimed to be the internet's central WAM porn shop (so that the owner could take passive income from it), has over time brought it to its knees. Year after year there have been layers upon layers of increasingly draconian rules enforced upon regular users in order to appease the mysterious 'paymasters' who administrate transactions, without ever consulting users as to whether the tradeoff is acceptable to them, all so the site can take its percentage cut. When the 'no references to kids shows that haven't been on for over 20 years anyway and which no kids alive today have ever heard of' rule came in that was harsh enough, but the requirements for the ID verification were a step too far for a lot of people - we are in a situation now where amateurs cannot post material here unless they send a stranger on the internet highly sensitive documents through a non-encrypted network. Well of course it's in decline. A chat forum for a sexual fetish that is supposed to promote sensory liberation is now unbearably hostile and chilling for any wannabe contributors.
In what way is banning anything invoving or made-for kids "harsh"? It doesn't matter whether any modern kids have heard of them or not - "if it was made for chidren it's not appropriate for an adult sexual forum" is hardly a major leap of logic.
And the ID requirement only applies for explicit content, non-verified accounts are still free to post as much non-explicit content as they like. Given the requirement on explicit content massively reduces the opportunities for revenge porn and unauthorised uploads or unwilling models, how is that a bad thing?
And point of order - the upload connection is encrypted, the whole site is https. So no-one using wireshark or equivalent somewhere between you and the site servers is going to get any unencrypted documents.
tengallon said: 2. Harassment to female members. Still happening, still terrible, still being swept under the carpet. Still living under the cloud of producers having their transgressions covered up and being treated favourably because they brought/bring in income to UMD - the reason a lot of prominent female members fled a few years ago never to return. The more money you bring in, the more you get away with.
The producer who got convicted of an offence got booted along with all his associates, and multiple of the more vociferously nasty accounts got booted too. Given that was probably the world's biggest wam producer at the time, doesn't look as if income meant got away with anything.
tengallon said: 3. Being a pirate's/trader's dream. Because UMD's download based business model is still stuck in the 2000s, and based around non-DRM-protected downloads of uncompressed clones of the ACTUAL MASTER FILES of scenes, in a new world where dozens of tube sites exist, it is the source of most of the web's pirated WAM content. It takes one person to buy one scene off here once, upload it to a tube site (they don't need verification of course), and it's there pretty much forever on sites much more mainstream than this. This piracy vulnerability is continually stated by new producers/members (esp female ones) as a reason for quitting or deleting stores and moving to streaming subscription models like OnlyFans. Nothing is done about it. There was lip service once about a reporting network, but that was when there was one big tube site - now there are two dozen sites about that cannot be contacted about removals. And all the files originate from the download stores on here.
I once made the mistake of buying DRM-content from one of Japan's major producers. Then a few years later I upgraded (from Windows 2003 to Windows 7) and have never been able to watch that content since. So I wouldn't thank you for DRM and I suspect most other buyers wouldn't either. And given that anyone can just point their phone at the screen to video anything they are watching, even making things streaming-only isn't going to make any difference.
On the other hand if you do have technical solutions, why not start a thread discussing them?
I do see that the OF model where only paying subscribers can message or otherwise interact with the model will be more appealing in terms of models avoiding timewasters, perhaps that's something UMD should look at adding?
tengallon said: 4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
Ok, here we're on the same page, TBH (and speaking entirely personally), I would ban anything at all that featured the active use of a toilet (even if it was just full of custard), and I would like to see a gross filter and a way for people to flag gross content that would automatically apply the tag if say more than 5 people clicked it - so no need to wait for a mod to act, just auto-tag as gross anything the community says is gross. So with you there.
tengallon said: 5. Zero engagement. Because all the casual users have been scared off, and all the women get harrassed, posts hardly ever get replies anyway. So if a girl WERE to send a scan of their passport and bank statements to the site in order to upload something, they would have no positive engagement (the replies used to go onto multiple pages!), except the four guys who would message to harrass them, and the one sleaze who buys the sole copy of the scene to pirate on Reddit where somebody puts it on a widely seen tube site where it cannot be taken down. Worth it? No wonder they're all on OnlyFans or TikTok.
The engagement that matters is sales, not forum thread replies. Yeah, it's a bit disappointing when you post a promo and no-one replies to it but I can remember when even the biggest producers would have threads like that so it's nothing new. Foums are seen as a bit old-fashioned compared to feed-based systems like FB and X, younger folk are less used to the forum format, and it is noticable that there's less forum activity than there once was. But forums are not the be-all and end-all, I can remember when there weren't any forums here.
And as I mentioned before, the ID requirements only apply to explicit content, and are common to all commercial sites that allow user-generated content. Ok, if a site is non-commercial and hence doesn't have any billers then it could avoid such restrictions, but a) that'd open the door to all kinds of illegal content like revenge porn and b) the bandwidth bills would be enormous, how would those be paid for?
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
Now, see, I was thinking of posting something, but I figgered it was ME -- too old, too out of touch.
I don't like the really hardcore porn stuff, which is increasing. I don't like girl-on-girl, which is increasing. I keep posting my AI stuff in the AI forum but see others posting it in Messy and Wet, which I thought was only for material with real-life victims, while my stuff is ignored in the AI group.
More and more the messy stuff is slime rather than pies. Guess many of you grew up with Nikkelodeon; I grew up with the Stooges. Or maybe slime is just easier.
I rarely see women pied or soaked (or both) while wearing formal outfits and godd-forbid long gloves, so I figgered I was just not in tune with the times. (I know I'm out of step on tattoos and piercings, neither of which I like. In fact I wont buy anything with piercings)
So maybe as DungeonMasterOne said, the UMD is evolving and this dinosaur is not. Guess that's life.
I don't like the really hardcore porn stuff, which is increasing. I don't like girl-on-girl, which is increasing. I keep posting my AI stuff in the AI forum but see others posting it in Messy and Wet, which I thought was only for material with real-life victims, while my stuff is ignored in the AI group.
More and more the messy stuff is slime rather than pies. Guess many of you grew up with Nikkelodeon; I grew up with the Stooges. Or maybe slime is just easier.
I rarely see women pied or soaked (or both) while wearing formal outfits and godd-forbid long gloves, so I figgered I was just not in tune with the times. (I know I'm out of step on tattoos and piercings, neither of which I like. In fact I wont buy anything with piercings)
So maybe as DungeonMasterOne said, the UMD is evolving and this dinosaur is not. Guess that's life.
Have been on here daily for 26+ years. I think messy fetishes are waning overall. Too much stimulus for the younger generation. Hope for a rebound, Don't see any Lenny's, Rich's (not sure how to pluralize), Jayce's, Mostwam's, Messygirl's, etc, in the farm system. AI is a consistent alternative.
kinkywam123 said: The main WAM models nowadays are more active on OnlyFans generally (again, not for me). I used to love coming on here, seeing new models open up to a new fetish, posting about how much fun they have. It seems now that any new "model" only wants to profiteer from their pics and vids.
I dont see onlyfans as a replacement for the umd, i see it as less permemant competition. All it would take is for them to raise their rates too much (like twitch did) for models/producers to look somewhere else, then the umd looks a bit better as a long term wam kink focused option with direct personal help from the owner.
Hannah x
I think there are things with the UMD that have changed and things that have stayed the same. I think that life and social media have a lot to do with it. This was the social media type site for a bit. Then when other sites came along more attention went to those places. Then there is the boogie man called the card processing companies that cause various rules to be put in place. Sometimes more strict than I think they need to be. But there are some things I am glad they brought. In the same vein as some of the other discussions that have happened around appropriateness of someone with a fetish tricking people into participating, the no kids is and should be a hard line. I understand the nostalgia around discovering this fetish during puberty and some things being frozen in time so to say. The desire to be that age again and discovering this for the first time and expanding your fetishes. The age difference was more appropriate then. There is no world where enjoying content that was not produced as fetish content that has kids in it is spank bank material.
I think that one of the things that has lead to the exodus and reduced commenting we are seeing is the wait and see what the community thinks mentality that exists here. There are some things that should be a hard line no and no matter how much the community debates the topic, there needs to be lines. People debate the meaning of no kids every few months, if that can have a hard line, other things need to as well.
The DRM approach is still a 10 year old solution to the problem of piracy. The most popular and common app for streaming on all the major platforms is free. It functions like a VCR's record button. There is really no way to combat piracy. If people are motivated enough to do it, they will find a way. The one thing about the internet and advancements in technology is that people find a way to archive. If I am remembering correctly, Nintendo ended up using people's ROMs with their NES and SNES mini consoles that came out a few years ago. People wanted to preserve games so they could enjoy them forever. I think that the subscription model is the best one, it does not combat the piracy aspect of things, but it does solve the archive situation. For those around in the subscription times that are selling individual downloadable movies, do you see an increase in piracy now VS then? For those that are only doing the subscription model here, do you see piracy and how bad is it if you do?
I don't know that I would say the UMD had its day, it outlasted pretty much everyone else except newsgroups. There are more platforms out there than there used to be. People have learned that the UMD is not the only way to do things. I think instead of talking about if the UMD is on life support, we could look at what the other methods people are using do that is not done at the UMD and if that should change. There is no difference between a forum thread, a tweet thread, bluesky thread etc. The difference is in how the threads are viewed, replied to and the privacy around them. A lot of social media companies are going to a model where you can block who can and cannot see your threads. That not logging into a place will not allow you to see posts that are made on accounts from people that have blocked you. Yes I know there is a box that can be checked to make a thread private, I think that should be the default. You could talk about one username per IP address setup unless you have a store or husband/wife, roomates shared internet etc. But there are also ways around all of that. I think the biggest way to combat the creepers that slide into DM's is to stop protecting them. We also need to do more as a community to make people feel safe being here and contributing. If people are harassed and don't report it and leave instead, it does not help root out the problem. But, there is also that line where when your inbox is flooded with vile human beings that you figure it is not worth the effort and say fuck it and leave. The features of only being able to message women if you are friends being the default is a great change towards that. Unfortunately, there are people that make accounts just for that. Nothing in their bio and very few posts or post all positive and hide who they are. Then the friend request is sent and the damage gets done. I think that when someone leaves, since MM can read all the messages anyways, maybe spot check some and see if there are usernames that have messaged the person that left with shitty behavior. Then create a list of those users and look at who else they are messaging. If the messages are the same, kick the shitheads out.
I think that one of the things that has lead to the exodus and reduced commenting we are seeing is the wait and see what the community thinks mentality that exists here. There are some things that should be a hard line no and no matter how much the community debates the topic, there needs to be lines. People debate the meaning of no kids every few months, if that can have a hard line, other things need to as well.
The DRM approach is still a 10 year old solution to the problem of piracy. The most popular and common app for streaming on all the major platforms is free. It functions like a VCR's record button. There is really no way to combat piracy. If people are motivated enough to do it, they will find a way. The one thing about the internet and advancements in technology is that people find a way to archive. If I am remembering correctly, Nintendo ended up using people's ROMs with their NES and SNES mini consoles that came out a few years ago. People wanted to preserve games so they could enjoy them forever. I think that the subscription model is the best one, it does not combat the piracy aspect of things, but it does solve the archive situation. For those around in the subscription times that are selling individual downloadable movies, do you see an increase in piracy now VS then? For those that are only doing the subscription model here, do you see piracy and how bad is it if you do?
I don't know that I would say the UMD had its day, it outlasted pretty much everyone else except newsgroups. There are more platforms out there than there used to be. People have learned that the UMD is not the only way to do things. I think instead of talking about if the UMD is on life support, we could look at what the other methods people are using do that is not done at the UMD and if that should change. There is no difference between a forum thread, a tweet thread, bluesky thread etc. The difference is in how the threads are viewed, replied to and the privacy around them. A lot of social media companies are going to a model where you can block who can and cannot see your threads. That not logging into a place will not allow you to see posts that are made on accounts from people that have blocked you. Yes I know there is a box that can be checked to make a thread private, I think that should be the default. You could talk about one username per IP address setup unless you have a store or husband/wife, roomates shared internet etc. But there are also ways around all of that. I think the biggest way to combat the creepers that slide into DM's is to stop protecting them. We also need to do more as a community to make people feel safe being here and contributing. If people are harassed and don't report it and leave instead, it does not help root out the problem. But, there is also that line where when your inbox is flooded with vile human beings that you figure it is not worth the effort and say fuck it and leave. The features of only being able to message women if you are friends being the default is a great change towards that. Unfortunately, there are people that make accounts just for that. Nothing in their bio and very few posts or post all positive and hide who they are. Then the friend request is sent and the damage gets done. I think that when someone leaves, since MM can read all the messages anyways, maybe spot check some and see if there are usernames that have messaged the person that left with shitty behavior. Then create a list of those users and look at who else they are messaging. If the messages are the same, kick the shitheads out.
I think the site is great-
We also have to remember we went from seeing pictures/videos on a monthly basis to an almost daily/hourly basis. We have more content then ever before.
The only downsides are really two-
1- People who are here from a financial upside who are just here to sell content and don't really have any interest in sharing with the community unless you will get into the paywall.
2- People who just rummage the site and want to re upload content they like to other socials to "share"
I've had some of the best meetups- and been able to enjoy some great people on this site. Plenty of good real people on here.
I think the site is what you make into it.
We also have to remember we went from seeing pictures/videos on a monthly basis to an almost daily/hourly basis. We have more content then ever before.
The only downsides are really two-
1- People who are here from a financial upside who are just here to sell content and don't really have any interest in sharing with the community unless you will get into the paywall.
2- People who just rummage the site and want to re upload content they like to other socials to "share"
I've had some of the best meetups- and been able to enjoy some great people on this site. Plenty of good real people on here.
I think the site is what you make into it.
Has UMD had it's day?
No.
I have been here 26.5 years and so much has changed, UMD has only gotten better in many ways. This is thanks to the producers, the admins/MM and technology improving. We now have better quality shoots, from more people and more often. UMD is the best place to promote that as every WAMmer ends up here eventually.
BUT
Things change, other sites appear, it is now harder to make money as models cost the same but competition drives down prices or forces producers to improve. Good for the customer but producers can't all do that so quit, as it their right, they owe us nothing.
UMD needs to change with the times and evolve as a site, it does so slowly.
Laws make things tougher and have to be obeyed or risk shutting the whole site down.
Are there problems with UMD, god yes, every site has them. The vast majority of folks on here are men and due to anonymity and ability to create a new profile in minutes, means harassment of the few women brave enough to appear is constant. Worse, some of the men don't realise they are harassing. This happens on all websites with interactions and I don't know how to stop it. Calling folks out doesn't work as the harassers don't care about others opinions. But that is another debate.
UMD will continue as long as MM runs it, the laws allow it and people like WAM content. Other sites will pop up, fill a niche, and they will have some of the traffic too. Tastes will change and thus content will change (I remember someone using catfood for the first time and 95% of folks said it was revolting, now it's seen fortnightly), this is natural, unstoppable and you either get cantankerous about change or you embrace it, even if it isn't your thing...you know, the way we do with music.
Here's to another 26.5 years, I guess.
Silver sea: 3 wombats and a sloth in a trench coat, skewing metrics since the 1970s.
No.
I have been here 26.5 years and so much has changed, UMD has only gotten better in many ways. This is thanks to the producers, the admins/MM and technology improving. We now have better quality shoots, from more people and more often. UMD is the best place to promote that as every WAMmer ends up here eventually.
BUT
Things change, other sites appear, it is now harder to make money as models cost the same but competition drives down prices or forces producers to improve. Good for the customer but producers can't all do that so quit, as it their right, they owe us nothing.
UMD needs to change with the times and evolve as a site, it does so slowly.
Laws make things tougher and have to be obeyed or risk shutting the whole site down.
Are there problems with UMD, god yes, every site has them. The vast majority of folks on here are men and due to anonymity and ability to create a new profile in minutes, means harassment of the few women brave enough to appear is constant. Worse, some of the men don't realise they are harassing. This happens on all websites with interactions and I don't know how to stop it. Calling folks out doesn't work as the harassers don't care about others opinions. But that is another debate.
UMD will continue as long as MM runs it, the laws allow it and people like WAM content. Other sites will pop up, fill a niche, and they will have some of the traffic too. Tastes will change and thus content will change (I remember someone using catfood for the first time and 95% of folks said it was revolting, now it's seen fortnightly), this is natural, unstoppable and you either get cantankerous about change or you embrace it, even if it isn't your thing...you know, the way we do with music.
Here's to another 26.5 years, I guess.
Silver sea: 3 wombats and a sloth in a trench coat, skewing metrics since the 1970s.
Perhaps this is just a can't see the forest for the trees thing, UMD still seems the universal meeting place and I'm not seeing any sign of decline. The times are always changing and generations exchanging and yet UMD has manage to still stay not only afloat, but still maintain its position as the #1 place to find this type of content and meet others into it. No debate about it for me, isn't there a song about this, "I don't care what they may say, I don't care what they may do, UMD is just alright with me!"
tengallon said:
2. Harassment to female members. Still happening, still terrible, still being swept under the carpet. Still living under the cloud of producers having their transgressions covered up and being treated favourably because they brought/bring in income to UMD - the reason a lot of prominent female members fled a few years ago never to return. The more money you bring in, the more you get away with.
2. Harassment to female members. Still happening, still terrible, still being swept under the carpet. Still living under the cloud of producers having their transgressions covered up and being treated favourably because they brought/bring in income to UMD - the reason a lot of prominent female members fled a few years ago never to return. The more money you bring in, the more you get away with.
This is absolutely untrue. Trying to let this thread run without engaging too much, but a lot of this stuff is just completely wrong and I couldn't just not acknowledge it.
Stay messy, my friends
Sleazoid44 said: Now, see, I was thinking of posting something, but I figgered it was ME -- too old, too out of touch.
I don't like the really hardcore porn stuff, which is increasing. I don't like girl-on-girl, which is increasing. I keep posting my AI stuff in the AI forum but see others posting it in Messy and Wet, which I thought was only for material with real-life victims, while my stuff is ignored in the AI group.
More and more the messy stuff is slime rather than pies. Guess many of you grew up with Nikkelodeon; I grew up with the Stooges. Or maybe slime is just easier.
I rarely see women pied or soaked (or both) while wearing formal outfits and godd-forbid long gloves, so I figgered I was just not in tune with the times. (I know I'm out of step on tattoos and piercings, neither of which I like. In fact I wont buy anything with piercings)
So maybe as DungeonMasterOne said, the UMD is evolving and this dinosaur is not. Guess that's life.
I don't like the really hardcore porn stuff, which is increasing. I don't like girl-on-girl, which is increasing. I keep posting my AI stuff in the AI forum but see others posting it in Messy and Wet, which I thought was only for material with real-life victims, while my stuff is ignored in the AI group.
More and more the messy stuff is slime rather than pies. Guess many of you grew up with Nikkelodeon; I grew up with the Stooges. Or maybe slime is just easier.
I rarely see women pied or soaked (or both) while wearing formal outfits and godd-forbid long gloves, so I figgered I was just not in tune with the times. (I know I'm out of step on tattoos and piercings, neither of which I like. In fact I wont buy anything with piercings)
So maybe as DungeonMasterOne said, the UMD is evolving and this dinosaur is not. Guess that's life.
Sounds a little like me. I still come to the UMD every day so it can't be so bad off. But I missed the forum aspect of the site, which I think has nosedived. Good conversation-- particularly about mainstream WAM-- don't happen that often.
Also, for a pie fan, there are a few good producers keeping the flame (Rich (of course), Messygirl, TMTWTS, etc.) but the quality and quantity of good content has declined. Some model lightly pieing herself in the face with a little whipped cream on a paper plate, filmed with a phone, is not my idea of good content.
Sleazoid44 said: Now, see, I was thinking of posting something, but I figgered it was ME -- too old, too out of touch.
I don't like the really hardcore porn stuff, which is increasing. I don't like girl-on-girl, which is increasing. I keep posting my AI stuff in the AI forum but see others posting it in Messy and Wet, which I thought was only for material with real-life victims, while my stuff is ignored in the AI group.
More and more the messy stuff is slime rather than pies. Guess many of you grew up with Nikkelodeon; I grew up with the Stooges. Or maybe slime is just easier.
I rarely see women pied or soaked (or both) while wearing formal outfits and godd-forbid long gloves, so I figgered I was just not in tune with the times. (I know I'm out of step on tattoos and piercings, neither of which I like. In fact I wont buy anything with piercings)
So maybe as DungeonMasterOne said, the UMD is evolving and this dinosaur is not. Guess that's life.
I don't like the really hardcore porn stuff, which is increasing. I don't like girl-on-girl, which is increasing. I keep posting my AI stuff in the AI forum but see others posting it in Messy and Wet, which I thought was only for material with real-life victims, while my stuff is ignored in the AI group.
More and more the messy stuff is slime rather than pies. Guess many of you grew up with Nikkelodeon; I grew up with the Stooges. Or maybe slime is just easier.
I rarely see women pied or soaked (or both) while wearing formal outfits and godd-forbid long gloves, so I figgered I was just not in tune with the times. (I know I'm out of step on tattoos and piercings, neither of which I like. In fact I wont buy anything with piercings)
So maybe as DungeonMasterOne said, the UMD is evolving and this dinosaur is not. Guess that's life.
Like Sleazoid said, I find much of the content on UMD does nothing for me.
I like and make some AI, but there is nothing like the real thing.
I also like formal and enjoy messy women in stockings and suspenders.
Perhaps i just need to accept that i am getting older, and still enjoy more old fashioned mess.
(Three stooges, Sticky Tara and Clown Julie are more my thing).
I prefer Co-ed mess, rather than girl/girl.
I still enjoy using UMD to find like minded people to chat to.
I my feeling is umd IS better or NOT worse than it was when I first found it in 2000.
My memory is starting to fad but I recall just having links to different sites like actual producers or people who just posted appreciation pics.
I don't remember having a profile until years later think after a break up I got one maybe mid 2000s? But I recall mostly men doing the posting and really bad toxic shit was being said at times.
Now we can Flag things (maybe we could then and I don't remember) but also I know now people are speaking out about behaviors are problematic.
I'd say while not perfect lgbt people seem to be posting more which before I'd argue unless a lady with a lady scene people would complain. Now we can tag different preferences so if people only prefer certain styles they can have that while letting others play.
I will admit I was less open to really messy sloppy wam and savory wam but over time have become into it, largely because of tigger benson and her super messy savory and sweet / super messed up scenes. But seeing another Asian person I bought her scenes just cause she's hot and wanted to support another azn person.
Things always change and while nothing perfect I feel this place is far safer than fetlife, I know they protect abusers and even people stealing pictures and pretending to be other people. Here when flagged and people can do some checking I know I've reported people for stealing actual users pictures and things have been taken down.
Of course there are going to be shitty people and wam as a whole has changed but I'd argue it's because of its growing exposure to others. I can think of at least two big profiles they are not active anymore who I found on fetlife and they had no idea this place existed.
As far as money goes I would say I can think of at least half a dozen producers/ profiles being banned and public out cry pushing some others out for some shady manipulations and if money was the motivation these people could have been allowed to stay.
Also how many of us actually pay to be on the one vip ? I am getting this for free cause I've posted pics of my wife but when the likes tapper off I don't get the vip thing (not sure if it says temporary on my profile since I'm writing here)
And I imagine any vip paying profiles and what $ site makes goes to operating costs and electricity and the time it takes to run this place
All though maybe at this point we should have to pay to be on here since costs of stuff have gone up insanely for everything. If I ran this place at this point for all the hassle and how fucking expensive shit is getting I'd make people pay a Monthly fee or annual fee cause I assume this is a side thing and MM ISNT screge mcducking it swimming in gold coins from what % he gets from video sales and paying vip
My memory is starting to fad but I recall just having links to different sites like actual producers or people who just posted appreciation pics.
I don't remember having a profile until years later think after a break up I got one maybe mid 2000s? But I recall mostly men doing the posting and really bad toxic shit was being said at times.
Now we can Flag things (maybe we could then and I don't remember) but also I know now people are speaking out about behaviors are problematic.
I'd say while not perfect lgbt people seem to be posting more which before I'd argue unless a lady with a lady scene people would complain. Now we can tag different preferences so if people only prefer certain styles they can have that while letting others play.
I will admit I was less open to really messy sloppy wam and savory wam but over time have become into it, largely because of tigger benson and her super messy savory and sweet / super messed up scenes. But seeing another Asian person I bought her scenes just cause she's hot and wanted to support another azn person.
Things always change and while nothing perfect I feel this place is far safer than fetlife, I know they protect abusers and even people stealing pictures and pretending to be other people. Here when flagged and people can do some checking I know I've reported people for stealing actual users pictures and things have been taken down.
Of course there are going to be shitty people and wam as a whole has changed but I'd argue it's because of its growing exposure to others. I can think of at least two big profiles they are not active anymore who I found on fetlife and they had no idea this place existed.
As far as money goes I would say I can think of at least half a dozen producers/ profiles being banned and public out cry pushing some others out for some shady manipulations and if money was the motivation these people could have been allowed to stay.
Also how many of us actually pay to be on the one vip ? I am getting this for free cause I've posted pics of my wife but when the likes tapper off I don't get the vip thing (not sure if it says temporary on my profile since I'm writing here)
And I imagine any vip paying profiles and what $ site makes goes to operating costs and electricity and the time it takes to run this place
All though maybe at this point we should have to pay to be on here since costs of stuff have gone up insanely for everything. If I ran this place at this point for all the hassle and how fucking expensive shit is getting I'd make people pay a Monthly fee or annual fee cause I assume this is a side thing and MM ISNT screge mcducking it swimming in gold coins from what % he gets from video sales and paying vip
There are alot of opinions being expressed in this thread and I'm not exactly sure what mine are yet, but the one thing that I can definitely agree with is that sometype of filter for gross/savory WAM would be GREATLY appreciated. Slime should be cake batter, not actually legitimately gross and unpleasant for the model. I don't know why there isn't one when the site has filters for gender, explicit/hardcore, and AI content already.
I am Sam Fisher - I am a Splinter Cell
I hope not - that's all I really had to say. I've read the other posts and problem statements but see few solutions, so also hopeful that community pulls together to first agree on 'problems' or 'areas to improve' and devise solutions.
Categorisation of content will always be subjective, so unless those sharing the content confirm what substances are involved and what type of scene it is used in, how does UMD get this right? And how can this be straight forward so that content levels are not reduced by additional field population reqs?
Categorisation of content will always be subjective, so unless those sharing the content confirm what substances are involved and what type of scene it is used in, how does UMD get this right? And how can this be straight forward so that content levels are not reduced by additional field population reqs?
32 || M || UK || WAM || WAX || D/S
I don't really know what OP is hoping to get out of this "debate". The answer is going to vary a lot person to person.
People tend to see the past in rose tinted glasses, especially the longer it has been. Also, you tend to only get out of something what you put into it. And while people exit (for all the various reasons others have listed) new people, producers and model come in; and with them new ideas and content.
I've been on and off here for over 20 years. In that time UMD helped me with the following:
1. Show me that I'm not alone in this odd, but wonderful fetish/kink/whatever it is to you
2. Bring to me constant new material and see fantastic new things on a regular basis
3. Interact with people I otherwise never would have, make friends and even meet them in person!
4. Actually LIVE OUT some of the best moments of my life with those people.
5. As a bonus: function as group therapy for myself and a number of other users here.
I'm still happy here as a lot of others are. But not everyone has had that experience as other people in recent threads have indicated. For some people, that's their own fault, and others it's because of a few select dickheads.
If UMD has had "it's day" I still don't see that as a bad thing, it's been nearly 30 years, privately owned and maintained. As far as any business or community goes, that's a pretty damn good track record.
People tend to see the past in rose tinted glasses, especially the longer it has been. Also, you tend to only get out of something what you put into it. And while people exit (for all the various reasons others have listed) new people, producers and model come in; and with them new ideas and content.
I've been on and off here for over 20 years. In that time UMD helped me with the following:
1. Show me that I'm not alone in this odd, but wonderful fetish/kink/whatever it is to you
2. Bring to me constant new material and see fantastic new things on a regular basis
3. Interact with people I otherwise never would have, make friends and even meet them in person!
4. Actually LIVE OUT some of the best moments of my life with those people.
5. As a bonus: function as group therapy for myself and a number of other users here.
I'm still happy here as a lot of others are. But not everyone has had that experience as other people in recent threads have indicated. For some people, that's their own fault, and others it's because of a few select dickheads.
If UMD has had "it's day" I still don't see that as a bad thing, it's been nearly 30 years, privately owned and maintained. As far as any business or community goes, that's a pretty damn good track record.
Damn fool of a tuber
I don't see a problem and we have little or nothing like this site left here in the UK. I think MM has done a fantastic job keeping this site going all this time. If there have been technical issues he has solved them quickly for me.
I regularly post free vids and pics, I do not charge to view my content and I have met some great guys on here over the many years I have been a member.
This site works as long as the politics of the day don't get in the way. It's a fun thing and people get what they want out of the experience.
Definitely not had its' day !! Long may the mess continue.
I regularly post free vids and pics, I do not charge to view my content and I have met some great guys on here over the many years I have been a member.
This site works as long as the politics of the day don't get in the way. It's a fun thing and people get what they want out of the experience.
Definitely not had its' day !! Long may the mess continue.
Going back to the thread title ... No.
It's not WAM if the hair stays clean
Whenever I see posts like these, I am always curious how long people have been here. I have been around since the beginning and have watched many iterations (for lack of a better word) come and go. This forum is made up of people, and the vibe changes as people come and go. Because of that, there have been times that I myself have been more or less active depending on what is going on in my personally life and what the general atmosphere was here. At times, I did not participate at all. But even then, I would still drop in and peruse the pic browser here at least once a week 
I certainly think things have generally moved in a positive direction here. I can remember a time when gay or trans people would have been scared to post. Things have definitely improved in that regard
But getting back to the original question, do I think the UMD has had its day as a site? No, it still seems to be going strong despite all the negatives that have happened. Now if I wanted to view that question through a more personal lens, it may be a bit different. My preference is clothed WAM with nice outfits that include tights/stockings. 25+ years ago when I found this place, that is exactly what Rob Blaine's Messyfun, Bill Shipton's Splosh!, Mark Kelly's Wamtec and others were doing. Of course I look back on that time with fondness! But times change and people change... Not to mention fashion changes; how many women wear tights/stockings in general these days, let alone make WAM videos in them And like others have mentioned, the "gross out" WAM is not my thing. But just because my tastes aren't being catered to at the moment, doesn't mean the UMD as a whole is any less relevant.
And one final thought, always remember that noone has to pay anything to be here (which is pretty amazing in this day and age!). While some may complain of the "commercialization" of the site, MessMaster has to make money somehow to keep it going! And not just a message forum, he does allow people to post free content which costs him bandwidth. There are currently 34 free videos on our profile alone, now multiply that times multiple other users and wow! I guess I'll just sum my thoughts up by saying be thankful for what we have, and not just lament what we don't
-JD
I certainly think things have generally moved in a positive direction here. I can remember a time when gay or trans people would have been scared to post. Things have definitely improved in that regard
But getting back to the original question, do I think the UMD has had its day as a site? No, it still seems to be going strong despite all the negatives that have happened. Now if I wanted to view that question through a more personal lens, it may be a bit different. My preference is clothed WAM with nice outfits that include tights/stockings. 25+ years ago when I found this place, that is exactly what Rob Blaine's Messyfun, Bill Shipton's Splosh!, Mark Kelly's Wamtec and others were doing. Of course I look back on that time with fondness! But times change and people change... Not to mention fashion changes; how many women wear tights/stockings in general these days, let alone make WAM videos in them And like others have mentioned, the "gross out" WAM is not my thing. But just because my tastes aren't being catered to at the moment, doesn't mean the UMD as a whole is any less relevant. And one final thought, always remember that noone has to pay anything to be here (which is pretty amazing in this day and age!). While some may complain of the "commercialization" of the site, MessMaster has to make money somehow to keep it going! And not just a message forum, he does allow people to post free content which costs him bandwidth. There are currently 34 free videos on our profile alone, now multiply that times multiple other users and wow! I guess I'll just sum my thoughts up by saying be thankful for what we have, and not just lament what we don't
-JD
Regarding the "extreme" end of content, I feel differently about it depending on the motivation and the intended audience. I pretty much can't get into watching stuff that I wouldn't willingly be there doing, so self-producing models who come across as genuinely into it, or stuff shared as fun challenges/forfeits among peers feels fine to me. But some of the stuff that's pitched as degrading with hired women models for the straight male gaze, that's where I get the ick a little.
tengallon said: Yes, it has.
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
While i disagree on the savoury in particular, i do agree in general for the other stuff. this is, as TheSpecialist said, a very underrated point. there's an increasing amount of stuff over the past couple years that at least straddles the line of 'is this really WAM or some other fetish thinly veiled as WAM?' and probably a few pieces that are far enough on the other side that you cant even see the line.
some have mentioned the idea of a gross button (similar to likes) or some such mechanism. i think there is some worth there to consider. perhaps a duplication of the like system but instead (for lack of a better description) dislikes and if a piece of content receives a certain amount of 'dislikes', it's then up for review. In combination with that, better usage of UMDFetish could be had with content considered as not within 'reasonable' scope of UMD being transferred to UMDFetish instead. of course, what would be considered 'reasonable' would need to be a matter of discussion with MM and the UMD community.
on the discussing of restriction 'access' to models to subscribers ala Onlyfans. again, may be some merit there, though unlike others i would keep forum posts and thread as full public access (completely restricting public interaction would likely do harm to overall activity) and just restrict more personal ways of communication (wall posts, PMs and etc). possibly including requiring all comments on pictures on profiles of female members and/or models to be listed as pending needing approval by moderators before they appear. not sure how technically feasible it would be with how UMD is built in the backend but it's an idea at least.
MuddyOtter said:
Regarding the "extreme" end of content, I feel differently about it depending on the motivation and the intended audience. I pretty much can't get into watching stuff that I wouldn't willingly be there doing, so self-producing models who come across as genuinely into it, or stuff shared as fun challenges/forfeits among peers feels fine to me. But some of the stuff that's pitched as degrading with hired women models for the straight male gaze, that's where I get the ick a little.
Regarding the "extreme" end of content, I feel differently about it depending on the motivation and the intended audience. I pretty much can't get into watching stuff that I wouldn't willingly be there doing, so self-producing models who come across as genuinely into it, or stuff shared as fun challenges/forfeits among peers feels fine to me. But some of the stuff that's pitched as degrading with hired women models for the straight male gaze, that's where I get the ick a little.
I will second this post as the qualifier to my above response on the topic. when it's models who are willingly doing the stuff and find their own fun out of it (Scarlett from Slimed Models comes to mind). When it's clearly geared towards a more "hardcore" style then leans more on humiliating (and not in a funny, hammy acted way) and degrading is some of the stuff that's really questionable.
I actually like the increase in girl-on-girl WAM. I, for one, have no interested in co-ed WAM and especially nothing involving sexual acts with a penis. if i want to see a dick, all i have to do is pull down my pants and look down. part of it is that a fair amount of co-ed stuff seems to end up like generic co-ed porn that you can find anywhere these days, just with mess.
Is there still some life in UMD, yes i think there is. Is there potential for improvement? also yes.
It's really sad to read so many negative views.
The sum total of UMD is what everyone puts in.
I like lots of content, go mad occasionally and I try to remember that I have a mouse which clicks.
If you don't like something, move on.
After all, UMD is my, "Happy Place!"
I've had wonderful online friendships.
And met amazing people in real life, at "Splunches!"
Afterwards daydreams really have come true.
By always trying to be respectful and willing to learn.
If we didn't have UMD, someone would have to reinvent it.
Thanks, Messmaster.
Peter
The sum total of UMD is what everyone puts in.
I like lots of content, go mad occasionally and I try to remember that I have a mouse which clicks.
If you don't like something, move on.
After all, UMD is my, "Happy Place!"
I've had wonderful online friendships.
And met amazing people in real life, at "Splunches!"
Afterwards daydreams really have come true.
By always trying to be respectful and willing to learn.
If we didn't have UMD, someone would have to reinvent it.
Thanks, Messmaster.
Peter
Splash me
Slapstick-Cowboy said: I've been on and off this site for the past 12 years, yes it still has its use both as a kink community and social network site but it is slowly becoming a bit more tackie with more and more video's and posts of a sexual nature, I think we need to be more careful as anyone of a younger age who joins this site can easily view such material.
Content with sexual imagery needs to be pay to view only, or in a XXX section. There was talk on another forum about why we don't have a UK group page and a US page and a Europe page rather than it all being in one but thats maybe a debate for another time.
Content with sexual imagery needs to be pay to view only, or in a XXX section. There was talk on another forum about why we don't have a UK group page and a US page and a Europe page rather than it all being in one but thats maybe a debate for another time.
It clearly states in the T&C that this is an adult site. There is even a warning about adult content. That is not gonna stop some kid from accessing the site. Just like it won't stop them from using their parents ID to get in here. Unless you want MM to go to the lengths of the Chinese government and use facial identity software to make sure the person using the site matches the ID on file. That is one of the ways the Chinese government is enforcing the number of hours kids play video games.
Everything was better when you were younger (one of the most recurring cliches ever).
So, I would say, enjoy it while it lasts... it will be way worse in 10 years
So, I would say, enjoy it while it lasts... it will be way worse in 10 years
furfg said: The internet has ruined anything authentic
I think AI will kill anything authentic that was left on the internet.
They said that on social media everyone needs to be "perfect", well i think that will go on overdrive with AI. And a lot of people will loose ability to appreciate or see the beauty in non perfect things, as (nearly) all real things are not perfect.
Also, the public might loose their ability to think for themselves, be critical about what is presented or the ability to base (or change) their opinion about something as result of a longer line of thoughts.
At least for me: My best thoughts/insights about anything were not the first that came to mind but the ones that evolved after thorough overthinking (or i had to drag out of an obscure corner, haha) and giving that process some time.
I fear a lot of people will not take that effort anymore, and just follow "what AI said".
But to get back on topic: I think that times change, and tastes, likes or preferences (or whatever you would like to call it). If UMD would still be only about slapstick and clothed pieing (just to mention something random, i was not online in the early days of UMD) i wouldn't have stuck around. And communities need some critical mass to keep existing, and to maintain that it needs to evolve.
Concern (as with everything in the internet)/is that commerce should not take over (enshitification) but i'm confident that Messmaster will not let that happen with UMD.
furfg said: AI is awesome. I will never get the AI hate. It is legit the greatest technology I've seen come about in my life time.
I have to disagree with you there. If you have any artistic talent or desire to make your career in an artistic field AI is not your friend. Studios are already looking for ways to only pay people for their image and likeness for an 8 hour session and let AI do the rest. People have already used AI to make a stand up special from the late George Carlin, his daughter has been fighting against that as they had no rights to the material they used to train the AI. People training AI are straight up stealing content to do it. Marvel has already started replacing artists with their latest movie poster for the new Fantastic 4 movie being all done in AI. This is some of the reason AI gets the hate. The people with the money don't value the people with the talent and feel that replacing them with AI is acceptable.
Pasta said: No disrespect to anyone, but I am tired of seeing the same small pool of UK models filming for almost everyone. With Honour and Satine having retired, that pool is even smaller now.
None taken at all.
I don't think this is strictly true (although it depends on your definition of small (something Mrs Rev often says to me
). But to a degree. there is a reason why models like Lottie, Lottii, Epiphany, Bri, Miss Abigail, Ivy, Nikki and the other leading UK models who I haven't mentioned*, et al get booked over and over by everyone, which is that really really good reliable WAM models who turn up and deliver the goods time after time, are fairly rare.
It's quite a risk hiring someone new to WAM, especially when it's your livelihood, and you are meant to be filming customs etc. We do get quite a lot of no shows or spurious last minute cancellations, or models who really don't like it, or don't 'get it'. So when you find someone who is amazing, and mention them to other producers, it's no surprise they get offered more work. Candy recommended Ivy to me. I recommended Honour to everyone. Bri was recommended to me.
Producers all know the pain of having the materials ready and customs to be made and getting a spurious no show, or a model who is really not digging things, so we always want to use the models who really deliver the goods time and time again.
However to my original point, I would contend that if you look through the UK producers model lists there are probably more there than you imagine, and that's because we do keep trying to find the new Lottii or lottie or Bri etc..and once in a while you strike gold.
*because it's past my bedtime and I am old and have no memory
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UMD has had its day: Clearly not. There are still plenty of people here contributing in various ways. Has it changed in the past however long? Of course it has. Trends, habits, how people create and consume WAM content will obviously change over time, so the site adapts as needed. If it didn't, it would already be long gone. Even those doing the carping have managed to jump on this thread pretty quickly despite how inactive some have claimed to be.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
Film it and they will come.
Platypus539 said: UMD has had its day: Clearly not. There are still plenty of people here contributing in various ways. Has it changed in the past however long? Of course it has. Trends, habits, how people create and consume WAM content will obviously change over time, so the site adapts as needed. If it didn't, it would already be long gone. Even those doing the carping have managed to jump on this thread pretty quickly despite how inactive some have claimed to be.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
Nailed it!!!!
Had a great bday getting muddy with MG's Brittany
Platypus539 said: UMD has had its day: Clearly not. There are still plenty of people here contributing in various ways. Has it changed in the past however long? Of course it has. Trends, habits, how people create and consume WAM content will obviously change over time, so the site adapts as needed. If it didn't, it would already be long gone. Even those doing the carping have managed to jump on this thread pretty quickly despite how inactive some have claimed to be.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
Models only want to sell their work: Just because you have to pay to view their content, doesn't mean that's their only motivation. If it was a quick cash grab, there are far less complicated and time consuming ways to do that. Pointing your bits at a camera and stroking them costs nothing if you already have a camera. Getting messy especially costs money upfront, with mess and trashed clothing being the obvious costs, but there are plenty of others. Add in the harassment that's already been mentioned and inherent risk of putting fetish content up when people are increasingly living out their lives online, then of course a lot of that is going to be put behind a paywall. It doesn't seem unreasonable that models or producers minimally want you to buy them a nice coffee and maybe a slice of cake for providing you with your spank bank material. If you're good at something, why do it for free? We all have bills to pay and mouths to feed, if only our own. In any case, there are still quite a lot of people on here who do share their content for free.
Quality of content has gone downhill: Whenever this comes up, it's always framed as producers being the driving force behind this. The community votes with their wallet. If the quality of content is too poor, people don't buy it, the store becomes unviable, the content disappears. If someone spends loads on producing high quality content, it's either priced too high for most to buy it, or needs to sell a huge number of copies at a lower price, the store becomes unviable and the producer might be significantly out of pocket, the content disappears. So obviously the content that sticks around is selling well enough versus what it costs to produce. The community is getting what they are willing or able to pay for. Looking around, that's still a pretty broad range. Or, just possibly, some models are doing it for fun regardless of the return on investment, but that would contradict the point above, wouldn't it? There is still plenty of content where clearly effort has been put in.
Site being monetised by MM: The site needs to adapt to survive. It probably started off as a message board, a nice lightweight site that could probably be run off of a tiny server. A small bedroom project that didn't cost much time or money to set up and run. More people find the site, user base increases, traffic increases, people decide they want to post pictures, then video, then want more features and ways to interact with each other. Both the time and the effort required increases, until either the site is shut down as it becomes too costly to run, or it is somehow monetised. Instead of going down a route of embedding general advertising everywhere (you know, the advertisements for butt plugs the shape and size of a bowling ball on FL, or the local news sites which are now completely unreadable) by hosting stores he's found a way to monetise the site in a way that's relevant, gives back to the community and helps it thrive. It could be argued that it makes it a victim of its own success if you liked how it used to be, but things change. Everyone seems quick to point out the passive income side, without pointing out the passive expense of hosting all of the uploaded content - the free to view pictures and videos, not just the paid scenes.
Too much disgusting content (same applies for sexual): Similar to the point about quality, the community guides the direction as much as producers do. A good proportion of scenes started life as a custom, that at least one person has specifically asked for. If content sells well, more similar content will get made (again, unless you allow yourself to believe some models are making content for their own fun). Different producers have their own boundaries, if you don't like the majority of the work from a producer, mute them. You've got the tools, use them. The problem with a "disgusting" flag isn't a technical one, it's incredibly subjective. No one definition is going to suit everyone. There's a fair amount of stuff on the site that doesn't float my boat, but I move on to the good amount of content that does. If you want to introduce a partner to your WAM fetish, send them specific links to the stuff you do like instead of giving them the top level URL of the site and letting them have at it. You wouldn't tell a partner you enjoy watching porn, then just give them a top level link to PH and let them assume you are into every video on there would you?
Too much AI content: Good job it's really easy to filter out if you don't like it. If it has slipped through the net, report that it needs flagging as synthetic, then it will soon be removed from your view. Then carry on to the stuff you do like. Personally, it's not for me it didn't actually happen, it isn't the same. The visuals and sound may get really good, but I doubt the subtleties like realistic unpredictable reactions of models and chaos of the way different substances and materials flow over and through each other will ever replace the real thing convincingly. That's before you consider all the points about stifling creativity, reducing the number and quality of creative jobs, having scant regard for training from copyrighted material, and using ludicrous amounts of energy. But you only need to worry about it taking over completely if you believe there aren't models and producers who are also in it for the fun of it (yet again).
Certain generations lack social skills: This isn't a generational thing, there are a subset of people of all ages who lack social skills. Social media has certainly contributed to an increase in poor social skills, but across all generations. I know just as many from the older generations who are glued to their phones or can't hold a conversation as those from the younger generations. Not all socialising has to happen online. I regularly find myself in an establishment called "a pub" having interesting and often inspiring conversations with people of all ages and genders, be that for WAM (splunches), kink in general (munches), vanilla special interest groups or friends. I can recommend it.
This
Subscribe! Stream 1700+ scenes for $17 a month.
RevSlymsford said:
But to a degree. there is a reason why models like Lottie, Lottii, Epiphany, Bri, Miss Abigail, Ivy, Nikki and the other leading UK models who I haven't mentioned*, et al get booked over and over by everyone, which is that really really good reliable WAM models who turn up and deliver the goods time after time, are fairly rare.
It's quite a risk hiring someone new to WAM, especially when it's your livelihood, and you are meant to be filming customs etc. We do get quite a lot of no shows or spurious last minute cancellations, or models who really don't like it, or don't 'get it'. So when you find someone who is amazing, and mention them to other producers, it's no surprise they get offered more work. Candy recommended Ivy to me. I recommended Honour to everyone. Bri was recommended to me.
Producers all know the pain of having the materials ready and customs to be made and getting a spurious no show, or a model who is really not digging things, so we always want to use the models who really deliver the goods time and time again.
But to a degree. there is a reason why models like Lottie, Lottii, Epiphany, Bri, Miss Abigail, Ivy, Nikki and the other leading UK models who I haven't mentioned*, et al get booked over and over by everyone, which is that really really good reliable WAM models who turn up and deliver the goods time after time, are fairly rare.
It's quite a risk hiring someone new to WAM, especially when it's your livelihood, and you are meant to be filming customs etc. We do get quite a lot of no shows or spurious last minute cancellations, or models who really don't like it, or don't 'get it'. So when you find someone who is amazing, and mention them to other producers, it's no surprise they get offered more work. Candy recommended Ivy to me. I recommended Honour to everyone. Bri was recommended to me.
Producers all know the pain of having the materials ready and customs to be made and getting a spurious no show, or a model who is really not digging things, so we always want to use the models who really deliver the goods time and time again.
A rule that I try to follow is not having a single model appear more than once in a set of 10 episodes. That's mostly a me thing, because I don't want it to look like I'm leaning on any one model too much.
This year, I've had 5 shoots scheduled. Only one show up. If they bother to cancel, the reason is usually a death in the family. I joke with the people who know I do this that apparently, being related to someone scheduled to model may be hazardous to your health.
I've got a good 6 months of videos shot, but they are all guys who have appeared recently. Effectively two solid months of consistent no-shows are draining my reserve episodes.
Dr. of Splatterology
RevSlymsford said:
None taken at all.
I don't think this is strictly true (although it depends on your definition of small (something Mrs Rev often says to me ).
But to a degree. there is a reason why models like Lottie, Lottii, Epiphany, Bri, Miss Abigail, Ivy, Nikki and the other leading UK models who I haven't mentioned*, et al get booked over and over by everyone, which is that really really good reliable WAM models who turn up and deliver the goods time after time, are fairly rare.
It's quite a risk hiring someone new to WAM, especially when it's your livelihood, and you are meant to be filming customs etc. We do get quite a lot of no shows or spurious last minute cancellations, or models who really don't like it, or don't 'get it'. So when you find someone who is amazing, and mention them to other producers, it's no surprise they get offered more work. Candy recommended Ivy to me. I recommended Honour to everyone. Bri was recommended to me.
Producers all know the pain of having the materials ready and customs to be made and getting a spurious no show, or a model who is really not digging things, so we always want to use the models who really deliver the goods time and time again.
However to my original point, I would contend that if you look through the UK producers model lists there are probably more there than you imagine, and that's because we do keep trying to find the new Lottii or lottie or Bri etc..and once in a while you strike gold.
*because it's past my bedtime and I am old and have no memory
Pasta said: No disrespect to anyone, but I am tired of seeing the same small pool of UK models filming for almost everyone. With Honour and Satine having retired, that pool is even smaller now.
None taken at all.
I don't think this is strictly true (although it depends on your definition of small (something Mrs Rev often says to me
). But to a degree. there is a reason why models like Lottie, Lottii, Epiphany, Bri, Miss Abigail, Ivy, Nikki and the other leading UK models who I haven't mentioned*, et al get booked over and over by everyone, which is that really really good reliable WAM models who turn up and deliver the goods time after time, are fairly rare.
It's quite a risk hiring someone new to WAM, especially when it's your livelihood, and you are meant to be filming customs etc. We do get quite a lot of no shows or spurious last minute cancellations, or models who really don't like it, or don't 'get it'. So when you find someone who is amazing, and mention them to other producers, it's no surprise they get offered more work. Candy recommended Ivy to me. I recommended Honour to everyone. Bri was recommended to me.
Producers all know the pain of having the materials ready and customs to be made and getting a spurious no show, or a model who is really not digging things, so we always want to use the models who really deliver the goods time and time again.
However to my original point, I would contend that if you look through the UK producers model lists there are probably more there than you imagine, and that's because we do keep trying to find the new Lottii or lottie or Bri etc..and once in a while you strike gold.
*because it's past my bedtime and I am old and have no memory
I hadn't really thought of no-shows and last-minute cancellations. I'd always liked to think that would only happen if someone was genuinely ill, but sadly it seems not.
I've always thought you rotate your stock well, so we see good variety with the models and the formats every week.
EDIT: I did hear of one model who had a quite a low success rate at turning up for jobs she had been booked for.
But I think she's long gone now, and didn't do very much WAM anyway, or maybe she just didn't turn up for very much of it!
I'm pretty happy with this site as a whole. Something nobody has mentioned yet is that on the tech side all the functions - which must be more complex than many imagine integrating both a forum and online shopping and huge repository of videos - consistently work and the site is well designed, which is still not always a given elsewhere even the 2020s.
There are still plenty of meaningful social interactions through the forum and DM functions. Whilst there are a few creeps and badgering/entitled individuals on here the general level of courtesy and civility is far, far higher than [mainstream social media site of your choice containing a firehose of curated ragebait]. Mods actually do respond to most issues.
The one feature I would like to see is to be able to pay a subscription to enable sitewide streaming of everyone's content rather than just a specific store. Maybe this would be controversial amongst producers though.
There are still plenty of meaningful social interactions through the forum and DM functions. Whilst there are a few creeps and badgering/entitled individuals on here the general level of courtesy and civility is far, far higher than [mainstream social media site of your choice containing a firehose of curated ragebait]. Mods actually do respond to most issues.
The one feature I would like to see is to be able to pay a subscription to enable sitewide streaming of everyone's content rather than just a specific store. Maybe this would be controversial amongst producers though.
Pasta said:
I hadn't really thought of no-shows and last-minute cancellations. I'd always liked to think that would only happen if someone was genuinely ill, but sadly it seems not.
I've always thought you rotate your stock well, so we see good variety with the models and the formats every week.
EDIT: I did hear of one model who had a quite a low success rate at turning up for jobs she had been booked for. But I think she's long gone now, and didn't do very much WAM anyway, or maybe she just didn't turn up for very much of it!
I hadn't really thought of no-shows and last-minute cancellations. I'd always liked to think that would only happen if someone was genuinely ill, but sadly it seems not.
I've always thought you rotate your stock well, so we see good variety with the models and the formats every week.
EDIT: I did hear of one model who had a quite a low success rate at turning up for jobs she had been booked for.
But I think she's long gone now, and didn't do very much WAM anyway, or maybe she just didn't turn up for very much of it! Thanks for taking the points on board, and for the kind words about the stock rotation.
At the weekend just gone I filmed on both days. For the Saturday shoot, one new model cancelled with 24 hours notice and for totally legitimate verifiable reasons, but which nevertheless threw the Saturday preps into chaos as I messaged around trying to find a replacement. We eventually did, but lost valuable prep time.
On the Sunday, 5 minutes *after* the shoot start , a new model messaged and said "I can't make it because my babysitter cancelled". I will let you make of that what you will.
This time, despite wasting precious shoot time ringing round all my contacts, and while paying the other model to wait patiently while we worked out what the heck we could do, we couldn't get a second model; meaning I had to cancel and refund 2 customs entirely, and adapt another one to a one girl variant.
With Bri, the Lotties, Ivy, Miss Abigail et al...unless they are dead, you know they will turn up..and when they turn up, you know they will deliver and won't be 'gunge dodgers' or complain or suddenly announce that they won't work with shaving cream despite having known the scenes had shaving cream pies for months etc.
That's why producers always rebook, and eulogise, about these models. They are absolutely priceless.
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RevSlymsford said:
Thanks for taking the points on board, and for the kind words about the stock rotation.
At the weekend just gone I filmed on both days. For the Saturday shoot, one new model cancelled with 24 hours notice and for totally legitimate verifiable reasons, which threw the Saturday preps into chaos as I messaged around trying to find a replacement. We eventually did, but lost valuable prep time.
On the Sunday, 5 minutes *after* the shoot start , a new model messaged and said "I can't make it because my babysitter cancelled". I will let you make of that what you will.
This time, despite wasting precious shoot time ringing round all my contacts, and while paying the other model to wait patiently while we worked out what the heck we could do, we couldn't get a second model; meaning I had to cancel and refund 2 customs entirely, and adapt another one to a one girl variant.
With Bri, the Lotties, Ivy, Miss Abigail et al...unless they are dead, you know they will turn up..and when they turn up, you know they will deliver and won't be 'gunge dodgers' or complain or suddenly announce that they won't work with shaving cream despite having known the scenes had shaving cream pies for months etc.
That's why producers always rebook, and eulogise, about these models. They are absolutely priceless.
Pasta said:
I hadn't really thought of no-shows and last-minute cancellations. I'd always liked to think that would only happen if someone was genuinely ill, but sadly it seems not.
I've always thought you rotate your stock well, so we see good variety with the models and the formats every week.
EDIT: I did hear of one model who had a quite a low success rate at turning up for jobs she had been booked for. But I think she's long gone now, and didn't do very much WAM anyway, or maybe she just didn't turn up for very much of it!
I hadn't really thought of no-shows and last-minute cancellations. I'd always liked to think that would only happen if someone was genuinely ill, but sadly it seems not.
I've always thought you rotate your stock well, so we see good variety with the models and the formats every week.
EDIT: I did hear of one model who had a quite a low success rate at turning up for jobs she had been booked for.
But I think she's long gone now, and didn't do very much WAM anyway, or maybe she just didn't turn up for very much of it! Thanks for taking the points on board, and for the kind words about the stock rotation.
At the weekend just gone I filmed on both days. For the Saturday shoot, one new model cancelled with 24 hours notice and for totally legitimate verifiable reasons, which threw the Saturday preps into chaos as I messaged around trying to find a replacement. We eventually did, but lost valuable prep time.
On the Sunday, 5 minutes *after* the shoot start , a new model messaged and said "I can't make it because my babysitter cancelled". I will let you make of that what you will.
This time, despite wasting precious shoot time ringing round all my contacts, and while paying the other model to wait patiently while we worked out what the heck we could do, we couldn't get a second model; meaning I had to cancel and refund 2 customs entirely, and adapt another one to a one girl variant.
With Bri, the Lotties, Ivy, Miss Abigail et al...unless they are dead, you know they will turn up..and when they turn up, you know they will deliver and won't be 'gunge dodgers' or complain or suddenly announce that they won't work with shaving cream despite having known the scenes had shaving cream pies for months etc.
That's why producers always rebook, and eulogise, about these models. They are absolutely priceless.
Oh, that sounds like a stressful weekend. At least you were able to save Saturday, so we still get to see some of the stuff you had planned. Fingers crossed for better luck on your next dates.
Thanks Pasta
As Rod Whistestar always says "For the first 24 hours after a shoot with problems we always vow 'never again' and then within a week, we're planning the next one" and he's so right
As Rod Whistestar always says "For the first 24 hours after a shoot with problems we always vow 'never again' and then within a week, we're planning the next one" and he's so right
Subscribe! Stream 1700+ scenes for $17 a month.
From the pov of someone who's been lurking here for the last 16 years, and who doesn't usually involve themselves in the community aspects of the fetish culture, I can say that yes, things are not as good as they used to be
1: the markets have changed and because there are so many more models and producers out in the ether now, most would rather do something more profitable than produce 1-time purchase downloads for an incredibly niche community that won't earn them much money
2. Slime/messy humiliation slapstick hasn't been mainstream since the early 2000s, thus the already niche community of people who were forever changed by watching Nickelodeon in their youth is not gaining many new members (don't take this the wrong way, this is an observation, anyone who attempts to groom minors by showing them messy content is obviously a monster, and I'm fully aware that this was [probably] not Nickelodeo's intention)
3. People are far more open with their kinks than they were 20 years ago, more and more people are just doing it for real. Rather than being repulsed when asking your partner, they'll just say "nah I'm not into that, I like latex tho" instead of calling you a psycho and leaving
4. UMD changed its rules and few years back, understandably, but now people are too paranoid to upload content because they don't want to give the website their name, address, and a copy of their photo ID
1: the markets have changed and because there are so many more models and producers out in the ether now, most would rather do something more profitable than produce 1-time purchase downloads for an incredibly niche community that won't earn them much money
2. Slime/messy humiliation slapstick hasn't been mainstream since the early 2000s, thus the already niche community of people who were forever changed by watching Nickelodeon in their youth is not gaining many new members (don't take this the wrong way, this is an observation, anyone who attempts to groom minors by showing them messy content is obviously a monster, and I'm fully aware that this was [probably] not Nickelodeo's intention)
3. People are far more open with their kinks than they were 20 years ago, more and more people are just doing it for real. Rather than being repulsed when asking your partner, they'll just say "nah I'm not into that, I like latex tho" instead of calling you a psycho and leaving
4. UMD changed its rules and few years back, understandably, but now people are too paranoid to upload content because they don't want to give the website their name, address, and a copy of their photo ID
STICKYFINGAHZZZ said: 4. UMD changed its rules and few years back, understandably, but now people are too paranoid to upload content because they don't want to give the website their name, address, and a copy of their photo ID
You can upload content without an ID just nothing with nudity.
I think it's fine. I mean, I don't know where else I'm going to go on the internet to find a site catering specifically to the fetish of WAM. Might not be seeing as much content as I used to, but then again after 20+ years of being into this, you've kind of seen it all, and it gets a little harder and harder to find stuff to live up to your expectations. Some producers and models do less, some disappear...then we get new producers and models. I'm not going to complain, I'm grateful it's still around.
Not a producer, but as a commissioner of art from artists I can vouche for this. Sometimes I find myself trying out new artists, and I find myself asking them for updates continuously after they've been paid in full "Have you started yet?" and they give me some sort of excuse or "Soon!" and then weeks go by and I ask again and it's the same thing...then weeks after they've finally completed it I'm asking "Have you shipped my art yet?" After that, I often find myself avoiding new artists and returning to the same artists I've worked with who finished and delivered art in a timely manner and didn't bullshit me...
RevSlymsford said
With Bri, the Lotties, Ivy, Miss Abigail et al...unless they are dead, you know they will turn up..and when they turn up, you know they will deliver and won't be 'gunge dodgers' or complain or suddenly announce that they won't work with shaving cream despite having known the scenes had shaving cream pies for months etc.
That's why producers always rebook, and eulogise, about these models. They are absolutely priceless.
With Bri, the Lotties, Ivy, Miss Abigail et al...unless they are dead, you know they will turn up..and when they turn up, you know they will deliver and won't be 'gunge dodgers' or complain or suddenly announce that they won't work with shaving cream despite having known the scenes had shaving cream pies for months etc.
That's why producers always rebook, and eulogise, about these models. They are absolutely priceless.
Not a producer, but as a commissioner of art from artists I can vouche for this. Sometimes I find myself trying out new artists, and I find myself asking them for updates continuously after they've been paid in full "Have you started yet?" and they give me some sort of excuse or "Soon!" and then weeks go by and I ask again and it's the same thing...then weeks after they've finally completed it I'm asking "Have you shipped my art yet?" After that, I often find myself avoiding new artists and returning to the same artists I've worked with who finished and delivered art in a timely manner and didn't bullshit me...
#DontLookUp
kinkywam123 said: I've been a member on and off for a number of years within this community, however, the last couple of years has, for me personally, seen UMD die a death. All the major WAM "models" have either left, don't post regularly, are involved in drama which inevitably makes its way to forums, or some other reason. Whilst not for me admittedly, half the site is bombarded with AI/synthetic images.
The main WAM models nowadays are more active on OnlyFans generally (again, not for me). I used to love coming on here, seeing new models open up to a new fetish, posting about how much fun they have. It seems now that any new "model" only wants to profiteer from their pics and vids.
Can completely forget talking to someone if you're a guy seeking a female about a mutual fetish and who knows one day maybe meet up - Fet is far easier for this.
What does everyone think? (There are exceptions, MessyGirl, Hotwam I'm looking at you as examples)
The main WAM models nowadays are more active on OnlyFans generally (again, not for me). I used to love coming on here, seeing new models open up to a new fetish, posting about how much fun they have. It seems now that any new "model" only wants to profiteer from their pics and vids.
Can completely forget talking to someone if you're a guy seeking a female about a mutual fetish and who knows one day maybe meet up - Fet is far easier for this.
What does everyone think? (There are exceptions, MessyGirl, Hotwam I'm looking at you as examples)
Haven't been around as long as you maybe can't tell but I think the landscape has changed with age and promotions but the ai stuff if definitely overwhelming at times
Paint with play and surrender
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
Curiouspaints said: Haven't been around as long as you maybe can't tell but I think the landscape has changed with age and promotions but the ai stuff if definitely overwhelming at times
You can easily get rid of it if you don't want to see it.
Go to the Messy Forum (because the controls in question don't show here in Non-WAM).
At the top there are three pull-downs. First one is the gender selection. The next has "Synthetic OK" or "Natural". Change it to "Natural". Hey-presto, no more AI wam (unless someone doesn't tag properly, in which case report it and the mod team will tag it correctly).
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
4. The increasing percentage of disgusting content. Fake shit (oh sorry "alternative farm clay"), fake vomit, a fake baby (?!), rotten food, pet food, fish, offal, force feeding, models gagging or feeling ill, 'extreme' everything. It did not used to be like this here. Even savory was rare. Extreme BDSM content like this is bodysnatching the fetish from the sweet food/paint/mud/slime dominance of before. You can't show new partners this website. It's not fun and sexy, it's harsh and frightening. It's turning into real dark web stuff. If you are scrolling through it's like Russian roulette about whether you'll see something so disgusting you will want to immediately close the tab. We are continually told that we can't have a "gross/savory" checkbox/filter because it is too technically difficult (even though we can have filters for gender and AI?), but the main reason is that it would further expose just how little 'pleasant' WAM is on here now.
This.
HappyCamper said: Hi! UMD'er for 26.5 years,here!
While UMD has it's ebbs and flows, I still consider it an invaluable hub for this fetish.
While UMD has it's ebbs and flows, I still consider it an invaluable hub for this fetish.
Being here that long should get you a special badge or something on profile
Paint with play and surrender
My bias is going to be different and needed imo because is much of this commentary is cis-het.
I think OP had a point that the site has peaked, if you're talking 10 years ago. I wouldn't agree it was better in the 2000s.
Site mod are pushing back on female harassment not being unabated, fair. I can't really say why it seems like there's fewer active women users now.
What I can say is that there were a large number of cute men who vanished here between 2020-2025. At least one who logs in but stopped meeting up and such told me he'd a bad experience with a user--the same thing that happened to me, altho I also was then bullied and harassed out of the community for over a year. The trust isn't really there, if it ever was.
It seemed like it was. I lurked for an early UMD decade before making a profile, because a lot of older men are creeps (I was creeped on hard when I first got active).
If you look at the user videos uploaded, they kind of end 10 years ago. But since I mostly only had YT for male wam content before/after (unsorted and much of it unwatchable) UMD's video gallery in the early-mid 2010s was like a huge explosion in quality and availability. And the community seemed larger (though this may be a Rashomon effect).
So this is perception, because filming quality was not better 10 years ago. But now, it seems like most of the wam itself is low quality. I have so little interest in a tiny trickle of something on someone's head, and even in the 2000s found it tiresome, shown in a weird closeup of their neck. Most of these videos do not interest me.
People aren't putting themselves out there as much except in paid store, but there's more users (altho it's unclear what the active ratio is).
I love artists but the AI too is an absolute abomination--it just seems like either a vocal minority or a healthy majority totally hate it. I haven't found one AI pic I like, altho that'll probably change some day soon.
As someone else pointed out, the messy forum is a pump and dump of ads for videos. The forums are dead without discussion, and messy forum is for content.
I absolutely adore RevSlymfords male models, some of the sexiest guys to ever do wam, but they're not active here just like most models now. But WAM's not actually their thing, which is fine, and they're also non-English fluent (we never seemed to have a good non-English community on here). Still, no discussion, little reason to hang around the forums.
I used to post polls to provoke discussion when I had new photos or a video to show.
From personal experience, there's too many psychopathic users. I find it odd and perplexing, since it would seem being denied and afraid sexually as adolescents would increase our empathy. Guess not. Just anecdotally this site or our fetish pulls in people with absolutely no respect for others' boundaries at a high rate. I think the moderators do a good job of catching the fakes, and some of the blatant folks, but there's others who slip through the cracks. It's hard, I get it.
But there's others to an extent I think a lot of users just blatantly don't trust putting honest and revealing opinions and content on here because the internet's still the Wild West without as much fun as it used to be.
Also, Gen Z doesn't have a community attitude on here overall, thought most people seem to have disengaged. The claim that Gen Z doesn't fuck with wam is not true. They're using X and Instagram and TikTok for wam, in that order. A huge number of Gen Z is aware of wam (not necessarily by name) whereas older generations outside this group have never heard of it. The young wammers have little engagement on here though. It's like gay bars. They're mostly kept up by millennials despite being in our 30s and now 40s. Few young queer men patronize gay bars (though they still like dance clubs).
Finding friends. I always try to send a friendly first message and if people are interested they're interested, and if not, fine. I got blocked by a model who I was his exact type at the time, and we are living right near each other. Nothing says you're disposable like arbitrarily blocking someone in the same tiny, isolated minority, altho I've now had to use the block feature myself.
I'd wager the site peaked around 2014-2016, like most of civilization
I think OP had a point that the site has peaked, if you're talking 10 years ago. I wouldn't agree it was better in the 2000s.
Site mod are pushing back on female harassment not being unabated, fair. I can't really say why it seems like there's fewer active women users now.
What I can say is that there were a large number of cute men who vanished here between 2020-2025. At least one who logs in but stopped meeting up and such told me he'd a bad experience with a user--the same thing that happened to me, altho I also was then bullied and harassed out of the community for over a year. The trust isn't really there, if it ever was.
It seemed like it was. I lurked for an early UMD decade before making a profile, because a lot of older men are creeps (I was creeped on hard when I first got active).
If you look at the user videos uploaded, they kind of end 10 years ago. But since I mostly only had YT for male wam content before/after (unsorted and much of it unwatchable) UMD's video gallery in the early-mid 2010s was like a huge explosion in quality and availability. And the community seemed larger (though this may be a Rashomon effect).
So this is perception, because filming quality was not better 10 years ago. But now, it seems like most of the wam itself is low quality. I have so little interest in a tiny trickle of something on someone's head, and even in the 2000s found it tiresome, shown in a weird closeup of their neck. Most of these videos do not interest me.
People aren't putting themselves out there as much except in paid store, but there's more users (altho it's unclear what the active ratio is).
I love artists but the AI too is an absolute abomination--it just seems like either a vocal minority or a healthy majority totally hate it. I haven't found one AI pic I like, altho that'll probably change some day soon.
As someone else pointed out, the messy forum is a pump and dump of ads for videos. The forums are dead without discussion, and messy forum is for content.
I absolutely adore RevSlymfords male models, some of the sexiest guys to ever do wam, but they're not active here just like most models now. But WAM's not actually their thing, which is fine, and they're also non-English fluent (we never seemed to have a good non-English community on here). Still, no discussion, little reason to hang around the forums.
I used to post polls to provoke discussion when I had new photos or a video to show.
From personal experience, there's too many psychopathic users. I find it odd and perplexing, since it would seem being denied and afraid sexually as adolescents would increase our empathy. Guess not. Just anecdotally this site or our fetish pulls in people with absolutely no respect for others' boundaries at a high rate. I think the moderators do a good job of catching the fakes, and some of the blatant folks, but there's others who slip through the cracks. It's hard, I get it.
But there's others to an extent I think a lot of users just blatantly don't trust putting honest and revealing opinions and content on here because the internet's still the Wild West without as much fun as it used to be.
Also, Gen Z doesn't have a community attitude on here overall, thought most people seem to have disengaged. The claim that Gen Z doesn't fuck with wam is not true. They're using X and Instagram and TikTok for wam, in that order. A huge number of Gen Z is aware of wam (not necessarily by name) whereas older generations outside this group have never heard of it. The young wammers have little engagement on here though. It's like gay bars. They're mostly kept up by millennials despite being in our 30s and now 40s. Few young queer men patronize gay bars (though they still like dance clubs).
Finding friends. I always try to send a friendly first message and if people are interested they're interested, and if not, fine. I got blocked by a model who I was his exact type at the time, and we are living right near each other. Nothing says you're disposable like arbitrarily blocking someone in the same tiny, isolated minority, altho I've now had to use the block feature myself.
I'd wager the site peaked around 2014-2016, like most of civilization
I agree with the opinion that different generations use the internet in different ways. People, like me, who were adolescents when internet became available for everyone started participating in fora, because the social media simply didn't exist then. We learned to use them and have a food time. Younger people that activily started using internet when social media were there, use these and meet their friends (and make new) there. Probably they see fora as old fashioned and they feel they don't fit in the (generally speaking) older folks on the fora. So i think that is one of the reasons why not so much younger people join fora like UMD.
I'm also active on a dutch forum for electronics. See the same thing there also. Most of the active participating people are a bit older. Some young folks find the forum by search engines when the have a question about repairing something or have an idea they want to realize. They drop their question, expect a fast and simple answer without putting too much effort in themselves (unfortunately, electronics is not something you learn or get to understand without investing time and getting some tools) and don't return when either their question is answered or they find it too hard. It happens not often younger people stay and become active participants.
I personally don't like to talk about generations so much. To me, it feels like putting people in boxes because of their year of birth and assuming everyone of a certain generation is the same. That's not true of course, and i think "bashing" younger generations will not make them feel particularly welcome when dropping by. There are differences by age in everything, as there always have been and will be.
I don't know how UMD was as community 10-20 years ago, but for a straight guy there are not so many female users who are open for contact and are not producers. Would be fun if there were more, but the reason is obvious: Women are very cautions for good reasons, if active at all. The messy forum contains mostly store plugs indeed, and less casual discussions.
I'm also active on a dutch forum for electronics. See the same thing there also. Most of the active participating people are a bit older. Some young folks find the forum by search engines when the have a question about repairing something or have an idea they want to realize. They drop their question, expect a fast and simple answer without putting too much effort in themselves (unfortunately, electronics is not something you learn or get to understand without investing time and getting some tools) and don't return when either their question is answered or they find it too hard. It happens not often younger people stay and become active participants.
I personally don't like to talk about generations so much. To me, it feels like putting people in boxes because of their year of birth and assuming everyone of a certain generation is the same. That's not true of course, and i think "bashing" younger generations will not make them feel particularly welcome when dropping by. There are differences by age in everything, as there always have been and will be.
I don't know how UMD was as community 10-20 years ago, but for a straight guy there are not so many female users who are open for contact and are not producers. Would be fun if there were more, but the reason is obvious: Women are very cautions for good reasons, if active at all. The messy forum contains mostly store plugs indeed, and less casual discussions.
As someone who was once very active here, if UMD has had its day then it's a victim of it's own success. WAM is much more accessible and less underground/stigmatized than it's ever been and it's now possible to form community with people on both a lot of other online platforms as well as in real life. If I want to post about WAM I don't need to do it on this site and this site only anymore. If I want to meet up with people I don't need this site either.
UMD has always been about the fetish first and everything else has always sort of been an "anything goes/anyone is welcome" Wild West. There's nothing wrong with that fundamentally but it does mean that someone on this site will always disagree with you, someone will always be posting content you don't like, and someone will always be weird in your messages. It's the price of admission, and when I was younger and it was the only game in town I was happy to pay that price. Now that I can curate my own little WAM community with people I like both in real life and on other sites I don't find I'm interested in posting here.
Which is not to say that UMD doesn't have good features. It's still the one stop shop for keeping up with what many major producers are doing and I really like looking at the forums for that but I don't need to be WOTD to do that.
UMD has always been about the fetish first and everything else has always sort of been an "anything goes/anyone is welcome" Wild West. There's nothing wrong with that fundamentally but it does mean that someone on this site will always disagree with you, someone will always be posting content you don't like, and someone will always be weird in your messages. It's the price of admission, and when I was younger and it was the only game in town I was happy to pay that price. Now that I can curate my own little WAM community with people I like both in real life and on other sites I don't find I'm interested in posting here.
Which is not to say that UMD doesn't have good features. It's still the one stop shop for keeping up with what many major producers are doing and I really like looking at the forums for that but I don't need to be WOTD to do that.
sororia said: As someone who was once very active here, if UMD has had its day then it's a victim of it's own success. WAM is much more accessible and less underground/stigmatized than it's ever been and it's now possible to form community with people on both a lot of other online platforms as well as in real life. If I want to post about WAM I don't need to do it on this site and this site only anymore. If I want to meet up with people I don't need this site either.
UMD has always been about the fetish first and everything else has always sort of been an "anything goes/anyone is welcome" Wild West. There's nothing wrong with that fundamentally but it does mean that someone on this site will always disagree with you, someone will always be posting content you don't like, and someone will always be weird in your messages. It's the price of admission, and when I was younger and it was the only game in town I was happy to pay that price. Now that I can curate my own little WAM community with people I like both in real life and on other sites I don't find I'm interested in posting here.
Which is not to say that UMD doesn't have good features. It's still the one stop shop for keeping up with what many major producers are doing and I really like looking at the forums for that but I don't need to be WOTD to do that.
UMD has always been about the fetish first and everything else has always sort of been an "anything goes/anyone is welcome" Wild West. There's nothing wrong with that fundamentally but it does mean that someone on this site will always disagree with you, someone will always be posting content you don't like, and someone will always be weird in your messages. It's the price of admission, and when I was younger and it was the only game in town I was happy to pay that price. Now that I can curate my own little WAM community with people I like both in real life and on other sites I don't find I'm interested in posting here.
Which is not to say that UMD doesn't have good features. It's still the one stop shop for keeping up with what many major producers are doing and I really like looking at the forums for that but I don't need to be WOTD to do that.
This is possibly the truest thing I read so far. The fact is, the secret is out. WAM is a kink and not really as underground as it once was. People are creating their own lil pocket dimensions on the internet and in real life so it doesn't make much sense to deal with the headaches that occasionally come with this forum. It makes sense and as time progresses, people are going to find themselves feeling more and more disenfranchised if they feel their concerns or wants are not being addressed or heard. Thus they log in less and less or in this case, carve out their own lil section on the internet and go underground.
Conversely, I get trying to be welcoming to all wammers and fetishes, but I do feel there was a much different atmosphere 10-15 years ago.
Does it mean UMD had its day? Depends. As Sororia stated, it's got it's uses. Keeping up with new producers, Keeping in touch with fans, Networking, all come to mind. There is sometimes a discussion to be had but mostly repeats of previous topics discussed a million times on here before over the years past so it is understandable if people feel deja vu if they been on here longer than 5 years.
As for all the other things? I dunno. I felt that this forum was more effective without the store attached to it and people could just hangout and talk but maybe that's my age showing. I am a fan of simple and maybe that's the problem is it has gotten way too complicated for people to just come here to enjoy what they want. In any case, the forum I am sure will march on as it always has. How many people who are truly satisfied in future years with it will be a question for a later time.
Making smut is easy. Making art takes more!
I wouldn't say it's had it's day completely. I just think it's going through a dry patch. I get that there's a lot of competition from sites like Instagram and OnlyFans for messy content but none of them offer much when it comes to community and meeting fellow sploshers.
TBH, I generally only use this site to arrange meets when I'm travelling, or find out if any guys are coming to my city. I occasionally have a browse for some messy videos or pics. Responses to meet requests can vary. Sometimes I can get loads of responses and sometimes get nada. There's no rhyme or reason to it.
While the site might not be as prevalent as it used to be, I don't think it will ever go away.
TBH, I generally only use this site to arrange meets when I'm travelling, or find out if any guys are coming to my city. I occasionally have a browse for some messy videos or pics. Responses to meet requests can vary. Sometimes I can get loads of responses and sometimes get nada. There's no rhyme or reason to it.
While the site might not be as prevalent as it used to be, I don't think it will ever go away.
Clearly not! Just have a look at the vibrant debate and engagement going on three pages above my head!
Personally, I have found the Messy Minds forum very useful and to certain extent a life saver. If the SS UMD is going to sink (and I doubt of there are any icebergs coming) I will be one of the band playing on deck as it goes down...
L x
Personally, I have found the Messy Minds forum very useful and to certain extent a life saver. If the SS UMD is going to sink (and I doubt of there are any icebergs coming) I will be one of the band playing on deck as it goes down...
L x
Auntie Liz said: Clearly not! Just have a look at the vibrant debate and engagement going on three pages above my head!
Personally, I have found the Messy Minds forum very useful and to certain extent a life saver. If the SS UMD is going to sink (and I doubt of there are any icebergs coming) I will be one of the band playing on deck as it goes down...
L x
Personally, I have found the Messy Minds forum very useful and to certain extent a life saver. If the SS UMD is going to sink (and I doubt of there are any icebergs coming) I will be one of the band playing on deck as it goes down...
L x
Yes, me too.
If you compare UMD with mainstream social media, and bear in mind the nature of the site, I think we're a good place with good values. Peter
Splash me
I think that younger people see this site and it's community and feel a little out of place (myself included) because the majority of the people posting here are older.
Its like we would rather talk to people our age about it because sometimes is kinda awkward/uncomfortable to talk to people 20 years older about this stuff.
Its like we would rather talk to people our age about it because sometimes is kinda awkward/uncomfortable to talk to people 20 years older about this stuff.
YungSub said: I think that younger people see this site and it's community and feel a little out of place (myself included) because the majority of the people posting here are older.
Its like we would rather talk to people our age about it because sometimes is kinda awkward/uncomfortable to talk to people 20 years older about this stuff.
Its like we would rather talk to people our age about it because sometimes is kinda awkward/uncomfortable to talk to people 20 years older about this stuff.
I thought about this a lot and it's a good point that you bring up.
I mean, I am young at heart and luckily I still hit the gym regularly, still pretty athletic and beyond having a speckle of gray here or there, I am still in good shape for my age. Have said all that, I do notice a bit of a gap between myself and the people who I am often around with. Not in any weird sort of way but more like they will say something or ask a question and the first thought in my head is "What? You didn't know that?!" and that is usually where I have to remind myself that I easily have 15 years or more of existence on this planet than some of these folks.
I imagine that road goes both ways in the manner like I was when I was young and exploring this kink. I usually kept to myself. I mean, I had no clue what the hell was going on. I just found out yesterday that this was actually a thing and there exists a place for it. So I can imagine the awkwardness the new generation of wammers might feel about engaging with this community, especially in light of the periodic dramatic episode that pops up here on occasion and the more seasoned vets calling each other on a first name basis.
I get it. I would say go at your own pace. Respond or engage with posts here or there. With any luck, more of the new and younger crowd might chime in a bit more knowing folks like you are on here and are active. If it's nothing but us old and dusty fuckers on here gabbing, there is no way any of the new generation of wammers will know that there are others like them on here. Just my .02.
Making smut is easy. Making art takes more!
There is too much sadism involved in the toilet themed posts and the fish guts/rotten food/pet food content.
In my opinion it shows the fetish in a very bad light Instead of coming off as playful and sensuous it comes across as hostile and misogynistic.
The mindset Reminds me of the type of guys who go to strip clubs specifically to embarrass, shame, belittle or humiliate the dancers instead of having a drink having a chat and bit of flirtatious banter.
That stuff is like a turd in the pool.
In my opinion it shows the fetish in a very bad light Instead of coming off as playful and sensuous it comes across as hostile and misogynistic.
The mindset Reminds me of the type of guys who go to strip clubs specifically to embarrass, shame, belittle or humiliate the dancers instead of having a drink having a chat and bit of flirtatious banter.
That stuff is like a turd in the pool.
I think the content you refer to is conveived by the participants as "humiliation", which is part of dom/sub dynamics combined with WAM. Other kinks also can have dom/sub dynamics. I guess it's alright if everyone is OK with participating. What i understood from it (no personal experience) is that it can be very intimate because of the trust it requires, though that's not always obvious when viewing it.
One could argue it may have downsides when rooted from mental issues. E.g. feeling the need to be punished because of low self esteem. Other things to work on these kind of issues might be healthier in the longer term. In any case it should not lead to plain abuse. Or unhealthy dependencies.
Personally i don't feel attracted to dom/sub dynamics, as i'm not dominant and neither feel the need to be submissive. But i haven't tried it.
I think it comes down to good ol' adagium to take (or view) what you like and skip the rest.
Real abuse would not be allowed here and removed when reported, i'm sure.
One could argue it may have downsides when rooted from mental issues. E.g. feeling the need to be punished because of low self esteem. Other things to work on these kind of issues might be healthier in the longer term. In any case it should not lead to plain abuse. Or unhealthy dependencies.
Personally i don't feel attracted to dom/sub dynamics, as i'm not dominant and neither feel the need to be submissive. But i haven't tried it.
I think it comes down to good ol' adagium to take (or view) what you like and skip the rest.
Real abuse would not be allowed here and removed when reported, i'm sure.
One solution to one part of one of the problems being discussed:
Can't UMD work with an independent third-party ID verification service? These services exist, and they have a business model which allows, and indeed encourages, them to invest in the technology to do this properly. And they will prize privacy and encryption because, if they get that wrong, they will undermine their own reputation.
Can't UMD work with an independent third-party ID verification service? These services exist, and they have a business model which allows, and indeed encourages, them to invest in the technology to do this properly. And they will prize privacy and encryption because, if they get that wrong, they will undermine their own reputation.
I notice a lot of people seem to be blaming the "gross" stuff as a major contributing factor to the change in the vibe of this site. And if you are vegan or exclusively use store-bought substances, I get it, and what I'm about to write doesn't apply to you. But for everyone else who takes issue with the gross stuff:
Nobody complains about lake/pond/river mud, yet that stuff is vile. That stuff is the filled with microbes and dangerous parasites. Flesh eating, brain eating parasites. Not to mention all the decomposed tadpoles, fish, and insects we are bathing in. Meanwhile, blended tuna and dog food has zero microbes and is 100% safe.
And tidal "pluff" mud? I hate to break it to you, but that stuff is barely even mud. It's largely made up of microbe and worm poop. Mostly plant matter, but also many sea creatures. Eaten, decomposed, and pooped out. It produces an overbearing smell of sulfur and dead fish, because it's because it's poop. It may not have the deadly freshwater parasites, but it sure as hell smells like literal death.
Quarries are the "cleanest" option, but a lot of us don't have access to them.
So pretty much, in a good 3rd of the mud videos nobody is complaining about, they are gambling with horrific parasites. In another other 3rd, they are bathing stinky organic soup. Indoor mud pools are the only ones that are "clean", and that only lasts a couple days.
I think we need to stop judging people who are into the "gross" stuff, or at least accept that much of the "clean" stuff was always grosser than the "gross" stuff
Nobody complains about lake/pond/river mud, yet that stuff is vile. That stuff is the filled with microbes and dangerous parasites. Flesh eating, brain eating parasites. Not to mention all the decomposed tadpoles, fish, and insects we are bathing in. Meanwhile, blended tuna and dog food has zero microbes and is 100% safe.
And tidal "pluff" mud? I hate to break it to you, but that stuff is barely even mud. It's largely made up of microbe and worm poop. Mostly plant matter, but also many sea creatures. Eaten, decomposed, and pooped out. It produces an overbearing smell of sulfur and dead fish, because it's because it's poop. It may not have the deadly freshwater parasites, but it sure as hell smells like literal death.
Quarries are the "cleanest" option, but a lot of us don't have access to them.
So pretty much, in a good 3rd of the mud videos nobody is complaining about, they are gambling with horrific parasites. In another other 3rd, they are bathing stinky organic soup. Indoor mud pools are the only ones that are "clean", and that only lasts a couple days.
I think we need to stop judging people who are into the "gross" stuff, or at least accept that much of the "clean" stuff was always grosser than the "gross" stuff
I wouldn't say umd has had its day however forums have sort of died off in past few years to a point I'm a member of a few car forums and in past few years they have become less and less busy however during covid they did get busier think due to Facebook and such like forums are a bit in the dark ages but still have there place
Nothing better than being messy
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