Now that we're in the TikTok era, I'm getting tons of vid submissions that are like less than a minute long. Sometimes they're 15 seconds. I guess it's cool because we'll get your single pie hits and leaps into mud pits and stuff like that.

But sometimes I get a bunch of submissions that are just the same file just split into multiple parts. Or maybe during a session they started and stopped recording a bunch of times and then submitted separate scenes. In a lot of cases I've been having UMD combine them into a single file/scene because I don't like the redundancy, but I'm wondering if people even care that vids are split up like this. I think they can flood the Latest Videos section.

Do you think UMD should have a policy that scenes should not be cut up into parts unless they're truly independent parts?

See, it's complicated, because yes, having a scene split in two or more chunks can be annoying, but at the same time, large file sizes can be difficult to deal with as well. I don't know if makes any difference for the server to store larger files, but downloading a full 20+ minute video at 1080p 60fps can be difficult for people without faster internet speeds. So I understand why some videos are split up and don't wanna complain about something like that without considering all the factors involved.

I don't mind if it's say a part 1/2/3 type thing, but if your splitting them tiktok style, then it's an issue.

Some splits, like say having the main messy scene in one file, and then the wash-off in a separate one, make sense, and improve things for the audience by making the running times of the different sections crystal clear.

And sometimes with a long main scene (35 minutes or more) it's necessary to split it into at least two sections to comply with the file size limits while still having a decent resolution and bitrate.

But splitting something up into tiny segments just seems pointless to me? I want a decent length of scene to watch in one piece, at least 8 minutes, preferably 12 to 15.

I remember when I first started buying subscriptions to WAM sites. Messygirl was one of the first and they were split up for bandwidth purposes. Back then it made sense and it was cool. I could pick my favorite parts and go from there. But now that better than dial up is pretty much the norm, I do not see the need for split up videos. I think that tiktok is ruining the attention span of people.

Is it like a single scene being split up? I don't really see the point in that. I can understand a short clip of a single pie, but if you're filming several in a row without a reset, then combining them into a single file puts a little extra polish on it.

May I suggest another possibility. We've been thinking about this for some time for our own videos. Piracy has always been a big problem, and currently there isn't a solution to stop it. But If we release videos in sections, chances are whatever is pirated will be reduced to clip sections, rather than an entire video.

EdwinR

I don't think there's anything wrong when it's a much longer scene, or the scene itself covers some different themes that may be one person's fetish but another person's turn off. I did that with my spaghetti vid to separate the softcore-ish, the hardcore, and the clothes cutting/destruction (because I know multiple people for whom this is an absolute no for), and it's given me an idea about what people will prioritize in my stuff too. On here and ManyVids - the part that has sold the most individually is different as the audiences there are different. I'm planning on doing that again with longer scenes if I feel people may prefer to buy only one part.

As for TikTok-style stuff, that is their right to price it how they want, but I think it should be clear when they are just cutting up super short parts to sell, or maybe they should bundle them if it's clear that it's supposed to be the same scene? If it seems they're doing it to hog the front page space, then maybe there should be something put in place for it to make them space it out. There's already a warning to tell potential buyers when a scene is extremely short, but if it's being used as spam to fill the pages with no room for other producers to have a chance at having their product featured in a reasonable spot in the listing, then that should be addressed. I believe Clips4Sale has a minimum length for scenes sold on there which I think is 2 minutes. Maybe UMD should consider a minimum too if this becomes a problem?

So many producers have split scenes into parts, and I feel like a blanket ban on that would be difficult to enforce as it's quite common, but usually involves longer scenes or scenes where the theme of each part is different enough that the audience for each is potentially different. Most producers usually bundle them too, so people can choose if they just want to buy one part or all of them together.

Just my two cents.

A lot of very short ones sounds a bit frustrating. Ok for longer ones, but... I used to split my longer ones up before I knew how to edit, so just throwing it out there maybe they could do with some guidance to where to learn the basics.

Sometimes I actually prefer the longer scenes cut into a few parts, just because (depending on file size) it helps video playability on my devices versus one large file sometimes. However, seeing a new scene broken up into multiple small parts has actually talked me out of buying scenes I'd otherwise want.

Splitting very large files makes sense though these days I would rather suffer in inconvenience of larger files and a slower download in return for better quality/resolution.
Having clearly defined parts when the scene was filmed can work fine as can splitting any wash-off footage.

Slicing up an existing video and redistributing bits of it doesn't work for me and as mention above, smell more of piracy than so.eone trying to make something good.

Tiktok clips really are just a waste of everyone's time and are more of an irritation than anything else.
Hoping I'm not alone here but I consider myself to be an adult and have an attention span of more than 15 seconds!

I can understand high-res long videos being put into 2 parts, but the shorter vids should not be in small individual files in my opinion. I've gone so far as to go back in my own collection of older videos that had parts 1 through 5 and combined them into one video, just to make watching easier. But as some have mentioned, there are practical reasons why a large video might be broken up, such as separating the messy from the cleanup portions.

I agree completely!

Agreed +1. long, big file size videos being split in two (or three as circumstances require) is understandable and fine. but anything shorter than, say, 10 mins long at the bare minimum being cut into multiple parts (except washoff being separate if included) is pointless and an annoyance.

DEFINITELY no on the small, split files. Honestly though, I'd love to see larger files. I have no issues with 3gb+ files, especially for the quality.

4k videos are getting more common and those files are 3gb minimum. The 1.5gb file size limit can really suck even for longer 1080p videos where the quality starts to suffer.

as a general rule I hate splits unless they're materialistically different

I have little interest in, say, a 20 second scene in general - but if that's the whole scene it's the whole scene
I think I'd rather watch a 2 minute compilation of 6 x 20 second scenes than watch 6 x 20 second scenes

Annoying

As

Fuck

my recommendation:

Files less than two or three minutes are automatically "pay what you will" if they are not part of a set. Submitters should be invited to add show setup or cleanup, or make a compilation to get to the mark.


Scenes should not be split "in continuity". They may be split only when

a) the file size is more than half the upload limit
b) there is a wardrobe change
c) there is a change of target
d) there is a set change
e) there is an act change (including wet to messy and messy to washup)

Uploaders may offer shorter excerpts as separate files (e.g. "-full video" vs. "-washup only") when clearly marked as such

I actually like most of this. I also think there MIGHT be a little wiggle room if each file is clearly marked and labeled--for example, "Jasmine's First Pie in the Face" or "Jasmine's First Slime" if they're excerpts from larger scenes. I'd shy away from "Jasmine's Messy Times Parts 1-15" though.

That being said, I'm not optimistic that will happen, given many of our users can't be bothered to label their threads beyond "Instagram Pie" and posting a link.

We don't believe in splitting up a shoot into separate parts and to sell them each at a price point. It's not fair to the customers to have them make multiple purchases just to view one scene.

Thanks for your opinions everybody! The poll was definitely more skewed than I thought it would be. The preference does seem to be that people don't like videos cut up into little pieces if they could be single videos. So aside from true e.g. Part 1, 2, 3, I'll try to keep them combined.

Do note that splitting large files just to circumvent our file size limits is and always has been against our terms. I know some split-up items make it through but please don't do this. The file size limit is in place not just to save bandwidth and to ease customer service, but also to prevent runaway disk usage (we back everything up up to 4x). I've been listening over the years to producers who desire more space, and as we upgrade over time and I program the infrastructure to handle it, I've been slowly increasing our maximum file size. But please respect it where it's currently at. We are still a small operation and have limited resources, and increases in these limits need to be considered carefully.

Also please don't split files to get them under 10 minutes long. Visitors do have to be VIP to watch vids over 10 minutes long. Maybe I can play with that limit someday, but some sort of limit has to be in place because that area sucks down bandwidth more than any other!

I routinely work with producers on compression issues, so if you need help, let me know. To find a good bitrate, I normally get UMD to create some test re-encodings of their videos. It puts them right in the bin so we can test a bunch of different bitrates. I have a pretty good track record of finding an efficient bitrate that looks clear yet gets the file sizes lower. I wouldn't even mind if we, as a community, ran some public experiments on some sample videos so we could debate bitrates and stuff.

Thanks for your help and advice everybody.

If I do a long scene I HAVE to split it so the quality can be close to what was actually shot. I shoot in 4K so? The file sizes are HUGE. I try really hard to make as few pieces as I can but for a super long scene? Sometimes it's like 3 pieces and I'm trying my hardest to keep the quality great!

Sorry, the rule is not to split files up to get around the size restriction. I'm always up for debate about this, but please do not take it upon yourself to circumvent this rule.

I think common sense should prevail. Where there is obvious splitting happening (not mentioning names but a certain (potentially less well known) producer used to split scenes into as many as 14+ different parts for sale in their store) then I think something should probably be done about it. If it's maybe 2/3 parts then I don't think there's necessarily as much need to get involved.

What may be good is if producers self-manage the situation and bundle together these videos into a single purchase and split scenes as little as possible. An outright ban/policy would probably be too much to enforce and you'd have to be really clear on what constitutes a "separate scene" or "separate part of a scene" and there is bound to be some element of grey area to this.

If people don't like scenes being split multiple ways then the best way to change this is probably to "boycott" those scenes. This will self-manage the situation over time as producers will then find other ways of producing/marketing their scenes.

Maybe an alternate solution is to have a minimum time for downloads? And allow producers to upload shorter clips as promo videos on their page? You could engage with producers (and customers) to determine the appropriate minimum length of clip but perhaps 5 mins as an example will prevent "TikTok style" store listings? As a former producer myself, anything less than 5 mins would be difficult to label as a "scene" unless it was an add-on like a shower-off. When I did this, I tended to add the shower clip to the main scene as a separate file. This would allow producers to continue to give this kind of "bonus content" to customers within the scene depending on how the time limit is applied.

To summarise:
- I think downloadable store content (under the "downloads" section of the site) should be longer by its very definition
- free video submissions (under the "videos" section of the site) should be left up to each user on how long the clip they want to submit there is

Same. While I haven't done so yet, I've tried running a single scene up in 4k and it spit it right back out at me. Ended having to export a second file in 1080p to get it to upload. I shoot in 6K on my Blackmagic and 4K on my Canon and dummy it down to 4K in Resolve and would rather not have to deprive anyone of quality and dummy it down. If someone wants a lower rez version I can oblige but I'd rather not if possible. Splitting the file by parts (strip scene, oil scene/round 1/round 2/round 3 for example) seems to be the only way

I'd say common sense should prevail here. Obviously tik tok/IG or FB story length shots are a waste of both resources and opens things up for abuse of policy.

I think for a majority, the heavy players here are not doing tik tok style shots (I could be wrong) but simply trying to upload the best quality content they can because we take great pride in our work and want to give customers the opportunity to purchase a scene as it was intended.

To summarize: No to tik tok length shots. Like ever. Do that on tik tok or your social media outlet of choice. Query on ways of trying to lift file restrictions for producers for videos in the download store.

Some of the long-term cheap-to-upload-expensive-to-get-back services like Amazon Glacier might be an alternative here.

For clarity, there are two different types of splitting being discussed here:

Type 1: The TikTok type effect where someone splits one ten minute scene into 17 parts and then tries to list each of them as a separate "scene", spamming the hell out of What's New, the notifications (and potentially the forums too) in the process. Only sane response to that is KILL IT, KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!

Type 2: Where a scene is genuinely so long that even with the best possible compression software it's just not possible to get the file under 1.5 gig in an acceptable resolution. This is the more debatable situation.

My view is that releasing WAM in 4k is utterly pointless, Full-HD is more than good enough, esp as 90% of the customers will watch it on their phones. Yes, us producers might watch it on a 70" screen but no-one else does. Using the Bonus Content System (coding skills required) is one option if someone wants to offer a stupendous resolution version as well as the more reasonable resolution UMD one. I shoot in 4k for the masters but release in Full-HD, and have reduced the size of my photosets so they fit in a single file. It does have to be said the change to allowing 1.5 gig files instead of just 1 gig does make a big difference to being able to practically keep most scenes to one file and the few that need more to just two.

The quality of the software you use makes a vast difference. Times were I used Windows Movie Maker. It was great for titles but useless at compression. Then I discovered Handbrake, and after that, Sony Vegas. The difference to WMM is like chalk and cheese. Using better software gives you vastly improved quality and smaller files. Vegas with 2-pass encoding will make a scene done at 6kbps look better than WMM did at 24kbps. It's that revolutionary.

In the vast majority of cases, I've found splitting the hose-down off to a separate file (which makes logical sense and also makes clearer to the customer how long each section is) will enable the messy scene to be one file, as long as it's not more than 30 minutes and kept to 5kbps at 1080p.