In seeing the various threads about problems that customers are having with producers/models with respect to custom videos, and that models are having with customers for Skype and other sessions, I'm wondering if the solution lies in setting up some sort of escrow system via UMD.

There are online escrow systems for eBay and other sites where money is exchanged, with one party sending the money to a safe payment area, the other party being notified that the money has arrived, and then the money being released only after the other party gets what he/she paid for.

Normal escrow services (I think escrow.com and agreed.com) charge a small but not insignificant percentage; but maybe there's a way to have something like this run through the UMD payment processor.

Of course something like this wouldn't be foolproof, and models/producers would be in a somewhat tough spot since they'd have to front the cost of supplies and the like until the money is released, but I have to think it might be a net positive compared to the "wild west" situation that appears to be happening right now.

Apologies in advance if I'm missing something which makes this a non-starter. I'm just trying to explore some ideas and maybe find a solution to what's apparently becoming a major issue.

I do wish an established producer would try crowdsourcing as a way of undertaking one of the more elaborate scenarios that have become a casualty of the "New WAM Economy." Something like Rob Blaine's 12-girl pie shoot, or an 80s-styled mud wrestling tourney.

It might take a couple of tries to establish a baseline for what amounts could realistically get funded, but I just think the first producer to get the pitch right would end up with a few grand for a fun shoot without having to worry if it'd lose money. Eventually you'd have diminishing returns, but I would wager we'd get a few killer videos before that economy flatlined.

Although, of course, I'm observing from the wrong side -- I wonder if any producers have already thought through this and found the flaw.

It's not getting the money paid sefely and securely that is the issue for me.
Those who really want the session or custom film are ready and willing to pay and usually pay as soon as details have been discussed and confirmed.
The problem i have is spending hours talking to someone, sometimes over a course or days, even weeks about a custom fi,m or session and they don't actually ever comit to anything depsite constant questions and emails about it.
Some just get a kick out of the idea of a session and just try to engage me in conversation about it without ever having any real interest in booking.

I have wasted hours and hours talking to people on here and elsewhere talking about posible sessions/cutoms etc. It's just annoying and leaves me feeling deflated and wondering why I bother. But then it only takes one bad thing to knock you and three good things to make you feel better...

Jessie xx
www.messy-jessie.com

The problems with escrow are similar to those of potential paypal scams from a models pov, where the buyer claims they haven't received the item.

Such a system would need to have a verifiable way of delivering the video electronically, which I could see being quite the headache. Some buyers require a DVD instead and there's another potential headache.

Also when I am doing customs or sessions I quite often need to buy goods and outfits, which would be fine some of the time but cashflow isn't reliable enough to guarantee there being no problem there.

When I started out I believed the onus was on me to prove myself and build a good reputation. I took payments on the day for sessions and only deposits for customs with the rest due after. I took a couple of hits from timewasters. It paid off with being known as reliable though and I'd hate to now have to start going through some escrow kerfuffle

So I thought maybe established producers and models could maybe be excluded from such a scheme... but then, the recent problem 'guarded' has posted about with his custom was apparently with an established provider.

I just can't see it working, sorry

I agree that it's far from perfect, but the status quo isn't working. There are a handful of threads about rip offs, and in those threads a few people reply to say the same thing happened to them. But it's probably safe to say that far, far more people have been victimized and don't want to out themselves.

And while of course consumers need models/producers to supply content, the WAM economy - like any other - is driven by the consumers, so if enough of them get burned, then the number of customs goes down. And customs are a huge benefit to models/producers, since at minimum the scene gets fully funded, plus in most cases the scene also is added to that model/producer's store, for added financial benefit.

Of course one can say that consumers can just get customs with those who they trust. But what happens when the list of trusted model/producers gets smaller and smaller? That's not a recipe for success.

I'll venture to say that we've reached a point where escrow might be the utilitarian solution - that is, the most good for the most people. I'd have to think it'd be better than what we have now, which it's becoming more and more clear isn't working.

I dunno really, it seems it's just the one person causing a problem. Going by that aforementioned thread.

Maybe something like the ebay feedback scoring would be better...

Escrow could be good for the buyer, but how would it work? If I buy a custom, put the cash into UMD and the model goes ahead knowing it's paid for.

So someone needs to authorise release of the funds, and it'd pretty much have to be automated - you can't have someone checking each one to approve it - so the model would presumably upload the vid to UMD which unlocks the funds.

However, what's to stop me then arguing it wasn't good enough, or long enough, or the white socks weren't white enough, or whatever - and now someone from UMD has to step in to arbitrate... and it's no good for a model who genuinely delivers.

Or the model is a fake, uploads 10 minutes of blank video. She then takes the cash and denies all knowledge (or just vanishes)... In this case the system gives the buyer a false sense of security, meaning more people take a chance on unknowns - and it's easy money for the fake model as 'she' is long gone. Now you've got to convince the moderators to refund you and pursue her? Hardly fair either.

I think the best way is as Candy suggests, Some way to let buyers rate a model and vice versa, and then we can all see who is decent and who isn't. That's not perfect either, but I think it's less open to abuse than the other ideas.

Look no further than eBay to see how flawed a feedback system can be, and that's with a community of millions. For a group as small as ours, all it would take for a would be scamming producer to do is get a handful of positive feedback spread over a few weeks, which I'm guessing would be more than enough to prompt many to order.

Sure - I suppose people could drill deeper to see things like join date and the like with respect to those who left feedback (of course another question is whether people would want to make it public that they ordered a custom from a particular model), but I'm actually worried that a feedback system would stop some customers from performing normal due diligence - giving them a false sense of security in a way.

I just don't see it working to a reliable extent.

Even if no solution comes out of this, it's good to see folks talking about this kind of thing - only good can come of doing so.

Yes, I guess it'd be pretty easy for an unscrupulous producer to set up a few 'sock puppet' accounts to give good feedback, and as you say some folks wouldn't want to go on the record - I don't think it should be compulsory anyhow.

Like you say, it's good to talk about it - maybe we'll find a way to improve the situation, maybe not.

I think all solutions are going to be flawed to some extent - nothing is going to give you 100% confidence that all will be well, but the majority of people are happy now so I don't think it's a giant problem that needs solving, just a tweak to try and make it harder for the bad eggs...

i love your honesty, jessie!