I'm not really into humiliation in WAM

I can appreciate it in small doses, like in old episodes of stuff like GYOB or other shows where people might be embarrassed at getting gunged but only in a harmless manner and also see the fun in it, but I don't like it when people seem genuinely upset or humiliated by getting messy and I really don't like it when it's done as a prank or to the person in question involuntarily

I think WAM, like all fetishes and kinks, only really works when both parties actively want to be involved or are openly enjoying it.

I think that's especially true with WAM which is a fetish where a lot of it's appeal comes from fun and an open embrace of silliness and enthusiasm rather than trying to be erotic.

Maybe that's just me but that's how I feel about it.

You're really gonna hate all my customs lol.

I love the humiliation aspect, and like it when the model is all grossed out and hating it.

Messy Health Inspector from messygirl is my favorite scene, because you can tell Amy really hates it when the beans are poured over her.

I don't like beans or other savory stuff either so it seems our cars just aren't parked in the same garage.

I don't mind it as much when it's clearly fake but I prefer it when models are enjoying it.

Just because you don't like it or 'get it didn't make it wrong.
YKINMKBYKIOK (so long as it's legal and consensual) and that applies to sub-categories within fetishes.
If you don't accept what other consenting adults are doing then, feel free to keep your opinions to yourself in the future.

And that is perfectly fine. There are so many aspects to WAM and everyone has their own likes and dislikes. The diversity is what makes this community awesome.

Everyone's got their kinks and turnoffs and with the free market you can choose which content you want to consume.

To me part of the enjoyment can be when something normally humiliating is done to a girl who may not like it but agrees to be messed.
At other times I enjoy a girl who is clearly enjoying the mess.

My own thing is when we see a girl agreeing to be messed up by her BF or husband.
That's why in terms of consensual humiliation, I love stuff from Freddy Blatter
In seeing a girl who enjoyed getting messy, you can't beat Cinqgirracer.

But there is room for all aspects of our fetish.

I don't think this is such an unpopular opinion tbh. To me they never seemed inextricably linked.

I think it's hottest when someone may have originally intended to either stay clean or get just a little messy, and they are sort of mildly shocked by the first bit of mess on them, but then they turn and start seeing the fun of it/enjoying themselves and deliberately covering themselves in it.

I don't think there is any "right" way to do WAM, it will entirely depend on the individuals involved in any given scene. Genuine humiliation isn't my thing but I know it is for some people, I even know someone who actively enjoys being humiliated / degraded, in a safe and consensual situation. My own preference is people who actively enjoy getting wet or messy fully clothed and deliberately dress up with the intention of being messed up, but that's just my take on it.

The standard response to stuff that isn't your own kink but is someone else's is "Your kink is not my kink but your kink is OK".

I remember some years back there was someone selling (quite expensively - think it was $25) a scene featuring an East-Asian-looking woman, dressed in denim dungarees over a shirt and tie, and getting spectacularly messed up. Outfit wise I thought it looked awesome but to me the model looked as though she was hating it. I assumed that was acting and being done for the humiliation fans, but it meant I didn't buy the scene. But fair play to the model and producer, presumably other people did like it, so they knew their market.

I totally agree.
I hate humiliation (in any kink), I love the fun, playfulness of WAM and the best ones for me are when the model is nervous, but happy, then laughs afterwards/during the mess.

I'll go 1 step further and say I prefer clothed/swimsuit WAM and hate the classic porn-face, enjoying or actual sex/masturbation clips.

My favourite clip is still Scarlet in custard corner. Obviously not a splosher, nervous, laughed uncontrollable and an absolute sweetheart about the whole thing (https://umd.net/forums/custard-corner-scarlet).

Everybody is different, 1 thing can kill a clip for someone but make it for another person. This is the dilemma of the producer, what will sell the most? Who am I aiming this for?
The more on the edge of a niche kink we go, the less we will find that works for us, thank heaven for customs (and the producers, love ya xx).

I'm not sure if you're confusing humiliation with videos being erotic, but they're by no means the same thing.

Every single pie scene I grew up on had the sole intent of humiliating the girl who got the pie. I never saw one scene where the girl laughed - not one.

Three Stooges - girls were embarrassed when they got hit, Mandrell, Three's Company, Brady Bunch....I won't bore you with the other 100 examples but not one girl laughed after getting hit.

Pies are not comedic to me at all. They are supposed to embarrass the girl getting hit. When the girl laughs after getting hit, it's a tragedy and ruins the video.

That said, girls getting naked and rolling around in pie goo makes me yawn. Very boring.

I feel someone needed to comment here. Why should he keep his opinions to himself because he doesn't like what you like? There are a million variables in what people prefer, and he's only expressing himself which is what a forum is for. You don't happen to like what he likes, so you basically tell him to shut up? Not nice, man.

Personally, I've learned that if a potential messy play partner's primary interest in WAM is humiliation that we're not actually going to be compatible. I can kind of play along with the humiliation side of things as long as we're both (or in some cases all) also ticking the sensual play boxes, but I've had several play sessions there's been no spark and we've both been left feeling unfulfilled because we even though there was mutual attraction and we're theoretically in to the same thing we were doing it for reasons which didn't overlap.

tl;dr version, it's perfectly ok to either be super in to or absolutely not in to humiliation-based-WAM. It's probably a good idea though to actually communicate with potential partners about the specifics of why they like getting messy and if one of you loves humiliation/degredation and all the psychological side, but the other doesn't care about that or finds it a turn off and just loves the physical sensations, you probably won't be a great match!

This isn't much different in the non-wam world of people. I was dating for a time, and met a woman who looked pretty enough from her profile photo on the dating website. We met and the first thing she said was 'I need you to call me your fuc*ing little bitch and whore, and slap and bite me. I get really turned on when a guy gives me physical pain, especially if I'm bleeding after.' I was dumbfounded. She then showed me scars on her arms, neck and shoulders, all teeth marks made by men she had been with. She also went on to express more and more horrible things she'd need to be called while being brutalized. I said, 'Sorry, you've got the wrong guy.' I'm sure there are guys out there who would love to hurt her, which is actually sad.

As for wam, we all have our preferences. One guy wants to roll naked on the floor with a nude model and have sex, the next wants to pie a clothed model in the face and jerk off, another might want her in heavy clothes that get messy, while the actual woman is clean under the clothing. Of course, some are into humiliation while others aren't. We are a small community and ought to acknowledge and respect our differences. There is no 'right' way to wam.

Here's a hot take...

If it's consensual, then it's not actually embarrassing.

What I mean by that is if we had an embarrass-ometer, we wouldn't register "embarrassment".

What you're reading as "embarrassment" could really either them playing into what they think you want them to express, or somewhere on the disgust spectrum. (mild disgust. Something one isn't too fond of doing, but not so revolting as to cause one to flat out refuse)

I do like "embarrassment", however, I define what embarrassment is, and imagine what is going though the mind of the model. Typically, it has to do with "failure" of some sort of or another. Examples include the model failed to get the question right, failed to do better than someone else, or failed to avoid saying a key phrase.

Involuntary WAM is a whole other can of slime.

Because it's kink shaming and intersectional at that.

To say that it "only really works when both parties actively want to be involved..." is literally saying that if you don't like Wam the way I do then it's wrong.
I didn't disclose whatever I do or don't like humiliation splosh play but when someone posts stating that they don't like what other kinksters legally and consensually get up to then they need to be actively challenged at every opportunity.

I don't enforce one vision of sploshing (because there can never be a singular ideal) but for someone to say what others do is wrong is unacceptable.

I went back and re-read this to try and figure out what's going on here. I don't see where this is "kink shaming" or someone saying anything is "unacceptable" or "wrong". What I DO see is a user talking about how they feel about a specific subsection of the WAM kink and then you telling that user to keep their opinions to themselves.

People need to calm down, and stop thinking everytime someone says or writes something it's meant as a personal attack. The OP (or anyone else in this thread that I can find) at no point ever said 'x is wrong', or 'y is bad'. They just stated, 'I don't like x, and here's why'. There's nothing wrong with that. That goes back to your extremely long acronym that I had to look up.

Ultimately, some people are going to have very different opinions than you. Some with very good reasons, and others maybe not.

But I will say this regarding something here you said


No matter how you look at it, that IS wrong, because that's non-consent, and if it's sexual in nature, it could be called rape in a court of law.

If you determine before hand and agree to some sort of "consensual non-consent" that's something different.

Carry on, have fun!

BTW, humiliation doesn't do it for me either. I'm a giver, and WAM is sexy for me. I want to make them cum, not cry.

I'm the same way too. If I were to throw a pie at someone, I generally prefer excitement and eagerness to get messy. It's mainly about the aesthetic for me.

I really think most people are in the middle ground here. A little embarrassment is normal and cute, but no-one wants to see someone being degraded in a way they're not on board with. It's an instant turn-off if a model is a) cold or visibly uncomfortable (e.g. shivering while they're being gunged) or b) grossed out by the things being poured on them, like in Youtube videos where someone is having meat or worms chucked over them.

I think almost everyone here understands WAM should be in good fun. Thinking back to the old TV gunge and pie clips that we all grew up with (like YCDTOTV, NHP etc.), none of us would have probably even gotten into wam in the first place if the people getting messy on those shows had seemed genuinely distressed or unwilling. That doesn't preclude people being shocked or a little humiliated when they get pied/slimed, but it's all consensual - nothing is hotter than someone being a good sport. It's why that ridiculous NHP episode where they pretended to gunge a kitten(!) got such a bad reaction - we implicitly understand that an adult is sat in the tank because they want to be, even if they're acting "reluctant".

Humiliation is an organic part of many fetishes (whether WAM, suit destruction, clothes ripping, head shaving, pup play, BDSM, dirty talk etc.), and it's driven just as much if not more by people wanting to be humiliated themselves than by people wanting to humiliate others. In the vast majority of scenarios it's all in a consensual environment with agreed boundaries. There's a release in trusting someone enough to allow them to humiliate you, in being able to let your guard down and let someone test your boundaries. And if you're the dom, you have a duty to take good care of the person - it's an honor to have someone put themselves in your hands like that, and you have a responsibility that they have a good experience.

I think the more troubling end of the spectrum - ie. any erotica where the person seems distressed or overwhelmed - is starting to make more of a comeback in recent years because of porn culture and porn addiction. People seek out harder and harder stuff to get their rocks off to because they've become inured to milder material. Before the porn ban on Tumblr, a few of the gay WAM accounts were increasingly sharing harder stuff that I found pretty unpleasant. We can draw a parallel to the rise of choking etc. in mainstream porn, which was exceedingly rare not too long ago but is now much more common, because people with porn-addled brains need increasingly extreme situations to get aroused. I think porn culture has had an impact on casual sex culture in general too, in that it's more and more about people just taking what they want from each other rather than focusing on the other person's pleasure as much as or more than their own.

That was well put and insightful. Thank you for writing it

I'm a bit in the middle ground too. I don't mind a model feeling a bit embarrassed or cringing a bit before the mess comes or play up their discomfort for the cameras but I don't like it when someone seems genuinely upset or reluctant

You can see it in all those old clips too. Adults on GYOB or people on NHP cringed before the gunge came but then they started smiling and laughing along with everyone else. Adults wouldn't have gone on GYOB if they weren't at least partially okay with getting humiliated.

Since you brought it up and it's another major fetish of mine, head shaving is another good example. I've seen videos where women seemed genuinely upset and distraught at shaving their hair off and clearly didn't want to and it kills the mood completely and makes you feel guilty for watching.

I'm okay with some understandable trepidation before hand or even some mild tears but you always want them to enjoy it too. Same as any other fetish. You want to see people who want to be there, even if they are doing it just to get paid.

A lot of people have said that and I can see it. One writer said the mistake was in giving unlimited access to porn but not teaching people about consent and communication and other aspects. The fact that some education systems are adamantly against sex education of any kind also played a huge factor.

i have had two models now who have read scripts over the years and then said to me "so basically these guys want us to be humiliated, right?" when they were NOT humiliation scripts. they were pies and slime games, fun, they did not ask the girls to act humiliated.

BUT the girls that were not into wam and did not understand it, when they READ IT, before they actually got IN IT, and saw the fun in it......
they blatantly, first thing said "okay so these guys like girls to be humiliated" THEIR WORDS VERBATIM.

so, just a thing from my end BUT i will say once the girls got in the mess and started to play they didnt FEEL humiliated anymore....but when they read it....that is what they thought the appeal was. note that these two ladies really were trying to understand it first hand...i was like "dont try to understand it, just DO....THEN, you can analyze it any way you like"

they ended up loving it.

I have to wonder what that says about WAM fans.

I'm glad they ended up liking it which is the reaction I always want. Like I said, I can understand models feeling nervous or uncertain at first and I'm okay with that but I still want them to end up enjoying the experience.

Also I'm quite flattered that you responded to this at all as I love you work.

Greta Thyssen breaks into a smile as she lifts up the cake that eventually ends up in her face in a stooges short. The pied Mandrell sisters both laugh as they try to put the whip cream on their faces on their sister Irlene. Suzanne Somers is clearly laughing after she pies herself. And everyone in the Brady Bunch pie fight is laughing. It is interesting what we see through our own prism of interest.

That's my feeling on it as well

I don't mind models playing up that aspect when I know it's not real, even though I prefer it when they are openly enjoying it.

ThePieZone's videos are a good example of the mock humiliation and disgust working https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCayXTeURqwRPAgVRp_MYRkg/videos

The models act disgusted but you can tell they are having fun getting messy.

My dislike only shows up when it comes across as genuine or when it's done with a sense of malice.

The example I've gone back to is someone being pied or slimed as a prank and without their consent.

You're ALL wrong...the only kind of acceptable wam is what pleases me...in that particular moment...with that particular model.

Interesting side note (in reference to Johnnypie's comment):

In the 3 Stooges classic "In the Sweet Pie and Pie' ...the short-coiffed blond (who takes the ONLY pie sandwich in a Stooges short: "Somebody give me a pie!") can be clearly heard uttering a gasp of laughter as she is hit by Curly's 2nd pie), just before they over-dubbed her shriek in humiliation (apparently the audio edit was either too close to make work, so they just clipped it and added the shriek, or, they did a botched/rushed job of it, or, they simply didn't notice the mashed up audio edit).

Pretty much concur although i dont mind the over-exaggerated humiliation where ya clearly know its being played up. Personally just really like seeing everyone involved having a laugh with WAM, it is rather silly and fun after all. For me it gives vids an certain other dimension cos peoples enjoyment with WAM makes me happy as well. Smiles all around! (its a cheaper remedy than cigarettes and alcohol)