I befriended a young lady on here who liked the fun aspect of getting wet and messy. She made that clear in her profile, and also that she had no interest in anything sexual as far as chats, comments, pictures, etc.

Yet, despite clearly and politely stating her wishes, she was treated very differently by many of the males on here. She persevered as long as she could, but today deleted her account. For a forum that is vastly overpopulated by males, we sure have a way of making females feel uncomfortable enough to leave.

I don't know if there is any solution to this, other than having behavioral expectations set out more clearly in the rules, and perhaps a system where women can report guys who blatantly ignore their requests again and again. We are strict on some things - such as underage people in photos and pirated content, and I agree that we need to be. But what about encouraging the minority of women to stay, to post, to feel safe here? Many don't, and it's a real shame.

[Edit 3/3/20, 6:15EST: Thread erased by Bobographer, presumably because I used the person's screen name (not real name). I've removed the name and un-deleted the post, lest a new wave of complaints happen because a controversial thread was erased.]

I agree we should be a community for everyone to feel safe and have their personal wishes respected at all times.

Long thread about this from months back (that a lot didn't see, as it was moved to Non-WAM):
https://umd.net/forums/how-can-we-make-the-umd-safer-for-women

Let's just be honest there are some real creeps on here. I've lurked for a long time even after creating an account and while yes, this is a fetish site. Some of yall need to understand not everyone is here for your sexual gratification. Just my 2 cents on some things that would help. (These may already be a thing but I haven't played close attention.)
1. Allow comments and messages to be totally turned off by users.
2. Add a mute button for comments and messages to allow a user to mute a person anonymously.
3. As bob stated. Enforce rules for bad behavior and harassment.

It's a shame dude's lose their damn minds whenever a woman expresses intrest in this fetish.

I always try to be respectful, it IS a sexual fetish site, and the pictures are here to stimulate us, however, I never make negative comments about any models, always try to find something positive, I comment on their clothing, legs, body if I like them, I would never make sexual comments, or body shame, never DM anyone unless I've seen their video pirated and tell them, I feel the above balance should be okay, because the photos are for a fetish site, so saying how great they look should probably be expected, even if its solely done for money.
However I'm willing to listen if anyone thinks that's wrong

As a reasonably active female on here, there are issues of this nature, for sure, but there're also plenty of really decent guys on here that I really enjoy chatting with. Not everyone's a creep! I do get some really "entitled" PMs though sometimes. It's like I'm here as a plaything, not to enjoy the scene in my own right. Not sure what the answer is, I'm strong enough to deal with it, personally, but understand that not everyone is. It's sad and disappointing when good people leave.

I don't have any complaints from any such user, nor any outstanding flags from her, you, or anybody. I'm caught up on all my flags. I'm looking into what's going on....

Messmaster

I found out who it was that removed her profile. I looked into her old inbox messages and found that she was telling other people that someone was trying to blackmail her with a nude picture she sent to them.

From what I can tell, the nude picture wasn't shared via UMD, and the person blackmailing her has never been a member, and still isn't. She said she was posting here on UMD to take away his power for when he does come here... whatever that means. This was back in February, but she removed her account on March 1.

From all appearances, this has nothing to do with UMD itself, nor its community. Just like the incident with Missie, as sad as that was, everything happened off-site. Please flag any incidents in the future or otherwise let me know. I can look into them and try to make sense of them, and perhaps avoid taking a blow to our community morale for actions completely out of our control.

Messmaster

I doubt anyone objects to genuine compliments, and even more sexual comments, as long as positive and polite, may be OK as long as in appropriate context. As you say it's a fetish site, so "wow, that really turned me on!" isn't necessarily a bad thing to say, that's at least in part what many of us are here for after all. But I really don't get the people who make negative comments about models. There's a huge range of material available to suit a huge range of tastes. Some people only want to see conventionally hot 18 y/o models, some prefer older people, some like co-ed, some prefer single gender, some love tatoos, others don't, some like long hair, some like short, some like shoes with no socks, some prefer socks with no shoes, some want wellies, some want bare feet, and there's probably even someone out there who wants to see models with bear feet!

Actual constructive criticism is one thing, there have been lots of threads over the years about camera tecnhiques, lighting, shooting styles, video editors, etc - and again, everyone likes different things, and all of us invariably have something new to learn. But being nasty to or about models is bang out of order. As just about everyone's grandmothers' seems to have said to us all as kids, "if you can't think of anything nice to say, better to say nothing at all."

Exactly! But if there are a thousand different personality types in the world, I promise you that they will all float in and out of UMD at some point. We can't help that; Anyone can freely sign up, and posts are not subject to pre-approval moderation.

All this liberty means that the occasional dickhead comment will make it through. Our m.o. is to keep the site clean of that garbage, remove the obvious trolls that pop up, and try to educate those members who seem to be acting badly but in good faith. With the community's help, we have a very effective system in place to do just that.

I think we should be judged by how we handle what the world throws at us, not be blamed for what it throws at us.

Again, this recent incident seems to have taken place off-site. But still.

MM
p.s. This was a response to DM1's quote only, and not the situation itself.

Posts that are not about wam will be moved to the non-wam forum. This is the place for important discussion such as that, and it is not a downgrade.

DM1, I responded in private about your flags, but TLDR: Being the human that I am, it took 2 days for me to get to it, and there weren't enough community flags to bury it sooner. Me taking action had nothing to do with you sending flags to me repeatedly, but I promise I am getting to every single flag as soon as I can.

MM

She has stated to me directly that the other incident on another site has NOTHING to do with why she left. The treatment of women and hypocrisy of other users is why she left. It wasn't necessarily a single person that made her leave but rather the community as a whole. She has moved on from this site and is content with her decision.

Since she had not flagged anything, I took at look at her sent messages as well as UMD's automated comments. The story about being blackmailed is what she was copying and pasting to multiple users--it even tripped UMD's anti-flooding system because of the dupes.

Furthermore, looking through her old inbox messages, she was an active user and talk to a lot of people. I simply cannot see where she was being abused... I haven't read every one but it looks like all love to me. Marmalade I checked your conversation history with her and I don't see where she was talking about hypocrisy or bad treatment of women. Can you please inbox me or respond with any insight? If I dropped the ball here, I'd like to learn more.

Thanks,
MM

Bob, also reviewing your messages with her, she stated that she had never actually had any problems here, but rather didn't like the view of women in general.... I'd love to have spoken to her about what could be improved.

Sorry if all this sounds like TMI to people, but a false narrative seems to be emerging, even if unintentionally, and the only way I know how to deal with it is more transparency. If we need to improve something then let's learn what that is. But in this case, the cause for her leaving is nebulous.

Messmaster

Bobographer deleted this thread, I think because I used the person's screen name (I thought it had been previously mentioned and it hadn't). If you don't mind, I've removed the screen name and un-deleted the thread. You can still delete it again if you want.

Messmaster

Quote from the person in question about why she left, as relayed to me from her friend Marmalade, posted with permission:

"my main problem with umd is the over representation of women. There's way too much content made about women that to the un-observant they might think there's a similar amount of women to men here. But it's like 30% women and much less who are actually real women accounts and actually women who like wam. It's definitely a well know issue, but no one seems to care and a lot of people also deny the lack of women siting how there's like three women they can name who are here. I also hate for a woman to be appreciated here they need a store or to be overly sexual. I'm very conservative in my sexuality and I hate it when people ask me to sit in a cake with my bare ass or something like that and those girls who do that are the ones who get so much attention. Then people think because they are the only women here, that's how all women who like wam are and they expect all those girls to actually care about wam. It's very obvious when a girl doesn't care about the community when there profile wall has tons of comments. It's all from guys who get ignored and think that's the place they'll noticed them. I don't understand how people can be that blind to someone not caring about them. I'm literally socially disabled and I know these things.

I just want people to respect women here and realize: 1) we are not all models, 2) models don't care about you.

Maybe a sex forum isn't a good place for me to be if I'm not here for sex. I just seem to get myself mad about the exploration of women."

---

It seems to me that her problem was with the demographic makeup of the community, and the fact that it's a sexual site in nature--and not with any specific thing that has happened to her while here.

MM

Can I just be brutally honest and say that someone who tears down and makes assumptions about other women for being sexual or making a living through WAM videos isn't someone I really care about keeping in the community. You can't demand respect while also shitting on models, saying none of us care about the community and that we're to blame for the exploitation of women. It sounds exactly like the shit that SWERFs say when they're protesting porn/sex work in general.

Can I just say, that it seems to me that 2 of the better known ladies on here are Lisa and Charlotte, neither of whom have ever done anything less than fully clothed and have never done anything at all sexual on the UMD, not that there is anything wrong with doing so on a fetish forum.

I have actually found that far from being sexual objects, most of our girls do not become popular straight away, it seems our customers like to get to know them before they decide who they like.
Apart from the odd idiot, no one shows our girls anything but respect in their feedback and communications.

As for the exploitation of women, how does that fit in a community that has many women running their own businesses here?

WAM is one of the nicest fetishes and this is one of the nicest communities.

There are some amazing women on this site, I get the feeling that they are genuine, there doesn't seem any pressure on the girls to pretend they are into WAM in a sexual way, most girls openly ymstate they find it fun, and that's as far as it girls, and it's always great to see models start off quite nervously, due to a partner with a wam fetish, or trying it for fun/money but unsure about what they're doing, and then they get compliments and positive feedback and grow into it, Charlotte, Sky, Mrs Bee, Tiswas girl have all blossomed into confident models, producing pretty staggering work, with the confidence that people love what they do, and will be appreciative of their efforts.
I also don't think any models look like they are pressured I to doing things they don't want to do,
Again, happy to be proved wrong, but the overall impression is good.
I am a member of a couple of stockings fetish sites, and never post because the pictures are great, but the comments are horrific, especially as photos of women in stockings or any hosiery are so rare in the media now, and the reactions to any pictures that don't show the exact thing they want are so aggressive, thankfully our community is nothing like that.
Thanks for listening, I'll shut up now

My two cents, prolly only worth one lol!

I was here back in the day, from 98 or 99 to 2006 or so, back when MM had maybe a dozen or two producers??? Can't really remember, but in that time, and in the past year that I have returned, never once did I ever have a problem with anyone. I suspect that a few of the women who write me a lot may not in fact be women, but that's about it personally. I love this community and so far, it has been a great place to share my own fetish, and even explore it a bit. For instance, I have always used soap to enhance my wetlook fetish but recently found out that I LOVE shaving cream! Very erotic, so thanks UMD peeps!

As for the community in general, I did squirm a bit recently when a producer was willingly and purposely taking abuse from members in public, it seemed that some men were getting a bit violent in their requests and I have a real problem with violence towards women. I get that it's part of the fetish when pies and other things are thrown, etc, but I am a bit uncomfortable with it myself. As far as I can tell, it was about the same time this young lady left. I thought about saying something but it seemed a bit too far. Maybe her actions said it for me.

Anyway, I produce to share, not to make money. The little bit I do make goes straight to charity but I remember back when the UMD first started, I felt that I was no longer alone, that it had a name, and there were others like me all over the world. It's obvious that there are many more men than women here, but I share because I think it actually helps others, and no one, so far, has abused that.

Okay, maybe only one penny

Madeline

I mean...I'm one of those men, and I have at least two very close friends here who are models. Well one of them doesn't like to be called a model. I would say that those two care about me possibly more than I care about myself.

A couple years ago I found myself in a very piss poor situation and one of them even offered me money to help me get on my feet. The other has come to visit me, trusted me enough to share a place with me and a couple other good men here on this forum on vacation, and has been everything short of my therapist at times. I've come to love them both dearly, as well as a number of other people here, both male and female, some of whom have treated me like family.

Models are people too, just like any other member here. And you can approach them, interact with them, and befriend them like any other person you encounter in your life. Likewise, you can also push them away, creep them out, or piss them off like anyone else too.

I'm upset that there are people here that get treated like shit because so many have treated me far better than I deserve. So, I and others here want to be able to help. But if the people affected or aware don't say something, or at least report it, how can any of the rest of us come to help them/you?

Each of us has the ability to be compassionate or at least sympathetic to others, all we have to do is choose to be.

And none of us are perfect, we'll all fuck up and say something dickish at times. But own it, apologize and make it a learning experience.

False narrative is right. Treat anything that doesn't add up with great suspicion and consider the usual suspects. Some thrive on drama.

Another observation: We live in a world where many men use magazines or porn videos to find sexual release. Those men may have favorites among the models and porn stars they watch. Some may even fantasize about meeting one of them one-on-one - maybe for an autograph, or better yet, a chance meeting where they can actually communicate one on one with someone they idolize. Since it's only a fantasy, they might then imagine having some personal interaction with that person.

Cut to our little world of wam. We're wired a little differently, but the expectations I mentioned start out pretty much the same. But then fantasy changes into reality, when the model we are jacking off to writes us to thank us for making a video download purchase, or leaving a review. This is when a LOT of males think, 'Oh, she wrote me, she must want me'. Perhaps it's the 'fantasy mentality' still rolling along, but really now, it is a producer or producer's model thanking a customer for a purchase.

Even if the woman in question isn't a model or actress, the fact that she's on a wam website might make some assume she wants messy sex with the first guy to chat her up. No, you can't chat with Playboy models, but you CAN chat with the wam females. And this, I believe, is where some guys lose their marbles. 'Oh my gawd, I'm in a chat with a girl who likes to get messy!' Yes, perhaps you are, but that gives you ZERO rights to be anything less than respectful and kind.

So I think the responsibility here lies on those guys who will continue to make a female feel uncomfortable here. For a lot of models, wam is an art form. They use their face or body to create something that will be viewed again and again. They may not be into wam for anything other than the artistic aspect, or the fun of it. If they happen to be into it sexually, that's their own business. If they are a producer making sexual videos, then it is done for their market, NOT for you alone. Maybe you've seen them in a video with a dildo, but that does NOT give you the right to ask for details about how it felt, or whatever.

I think a lot of the problem we encounter here is with guys who simply need to grow the hell up and start treating women better.

You truly are a shining knight Bobographer
Other men really need to get their act together.
C'mon guys is it really that hard to treat people right?

I think that this thread should be required reading when someone brings a problem out in public and starts slamming the people here, especially MM. A claim was made. That claim peculated for a bit and an investigation was done. It was found that all the issues had nothing to do with the site. MM explained everything as per his MO and let people know what was really going on.

The departed poster definitely put her finger on a problem. This is a site geared towards producers and consumers in an open forum, not towards organic community building based on interpersonal contact. That's fine for what it is, but it only scratches a particular kind of itch. There's no need to turn that into drama, but there's also no point in denying the drawbacks.

Don't normally chime in but yes many of the female accounts feel like the most frequent posters are models promoting projects as opposed to regular members but some are possibly family, producers, or representatives posing as the models in some cases. Though some models are part of the community like Lisa, Kayden, or Jayce who have been here for years.

But many of us are not entirely honest, some of the male profiles are women that don't want to be pestered by sexual advances and comments. some female profiles are male role players not catfishing because they have no intention of meeting in the real world. Some of us are on multiple forums with multiple names. This holds true for the males as well, I joined this community in 1998 with a profile that was 4 years older than I was.

This community is inviting and friendly but it is still an online community and people are not who or what they appear and we don't know each other. I spoke with a few people for a while in the yahoo groups days and fetlife but have rarely contacted through here because most seem British, Southern, or other with little to no East Coast representation. I wrote for fun but had pursued legitimate writing(unsuccessfully) and didn't want the stigma of an occasional fetish writer in my work.

Long winded and heavily worded as this is, please don't let the active posters discourage you from exploring what entertains, amuses, or excites you. Not everything you do has to be sexual but this forum is the more graphic forum of this community so keep that in mind. Also don't creep on strangers there is a personals and events section to try to meet people.