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"The Great Messymayhem Model Booking Saga"
16 posts 3284 views
Love you, too
This is an account of trying to book models for my recent weekend of shoots. It should give a bit of insight of just how hard it can be to be a producer. Not just in terms of all the work preparing games, and mess for the shoot, shooting the content and clearing up afterwards but the problems we can face getting ladies to participate in the shoots.
In my book models need to be: Attractive, be willing to work topless at a minimum, be prepared to get very messy, have a good sense of humour, be available on the date, be prepared to work for the rate I offer, have reasonable travel costs for getting to the shoot and be organised enough to communicate effectively and turn up on the right day at the right time. Finding someone that ticks all of these boxes is NOT easy. In particular many models don't have the best communication skills.
I started the year with a list of models I would like to work with or a "to goo" list as I call it. Once I had dates confirmed that we could shoot I began contacting them. Two of them came back and said they were interested but unavailable on the dates. Another five didn't respond at all, including a model I had worked with before. A great start!
Another model who has shot with other producers came back and said she was interested but her travel was going to be expensive and she would need to stay over in a hotel. A fan wanted to see her shoot with us so much they offered to pay towards this. She said she would check about childcare and get back to me but I never heard anything despite chasing a couple of times.
A professional Dominatrix who expressed an interest in getting messy came back to me saying she was interested. I sent her some more details but didn't hear back from her. Chased still no response. A model who I have worked with before came back and said she was interested but she wanted a higher rate and her travel costs were high, she would also need a hotel room for the night. In the end I decided the cost was just too much despite her being really good.
I contacted a girl through the UMD who produces messy content. She messaged back saying she was interested but to contact her through Instagram. I tried to but I barely use that platform and the message wouldn't send. I tried contacting her through UMD again but no response.
I contacted the final girl on my list. She had never done messy content before but she did list on her profile that she wanted to do anything "Messy or crazy". She came back straight away and was super enthusiastic and easy to deal with and I booked her in. Huzzah, one model booked but I needed three more and I needed to start looking beyond my list.
I started looking at models relatively close to the studio to try and keep the costs down. Two ladies came back to say that it sounded fun but they were out of the country and would check the site out on their return. Several didn't respond at all and two said it wasn't for them.
I then had an idea about the girl who I originally contacted through UMD, I contacted another producer who she had done content for, and they kindly put us in touch by e-mail. She confirmed she was free on the date and was happy with everything. I asked her to confirm her travel costs and a contact number. Around this time, I tried contacting the Dominatrix again as she seemed really keen. She did come back this time and apologised that my messages had been going to her junk but didn't confirm if she was free on the dates. I messaged he back trying to get confirmation, but it all went quiet for a while again.
I contacted another local model who had quite a lot of kink stuff in her portfolio, but she had never done messy stuff before. She was really keen and had great communication. So, I got her booked in. This was Sylwia. Two sorted! Around this time the Dominatrix came back to me and confirmed she was free on the date and asked who she would be shooting with, suggesting a couple of her friends. I suggested Sylwia and sent her a photo thinking they might be a good match up, again everything went quiet. One of the ladies who had been out of the country eventually came back to me and said she had checked it out and it wasn't for her.
By this time the shoots were starting to get close. I had two ladies confirmed and was waiting for another two to confirm. I chased a few times but eventually gave up on the Dominatrix. I tried asking a few other producers for ideas, one of them contacted a model for me but she was unavailable on the date. I then got in touch with another local model. She asked a lot of questions and like the other girls had never done messy stuff before, she decided to give it a go. This was Luna.
It was now two weeks before the shoots and the girl I originally contact through the UMD still hadn't confirmed her travel costs or contact number and I was getting worried. She did respond a few times promising to do it asap as she was busy but nothing materialised. I tried chasing again but got a response saying that she didn't really user her e-mails and asked if I could contact her by phone, however she didn't provide her phone number! I sent her mine again and set a deadline for her to get back to me because now I was seriously worried. I contacted another model who came back straight away with a very enthusiastic response and said she was free. I explained the situation and said if I didn't hear back from the other girl to confirm before the deadline, I had set the shoot was hers. "Is it bad that I hope she doesn't come back to you, I really want to do this." she responded. She got her wish! This was Kim. So, I finally had a lineup of four ladies and none of them had done messy content before (well Kim had done some body paint and a photoshoot in a bath of baked beans but nothing like what we do).
The first shoot went pretty much to plan, both girls Kim & Luna turned up and we had a good, very messy day. That evening I realised I hadn't heard from one of the models for the next day. The models normally text me the night before just to confirm the day before a shoot that all is well. I wasn't too worried though, this was the first model who I had managed to book in from this saga and her communication had been great. At 2am I awoke to a text from her saying sorry she missed my message and all was fine. I went back to sleep and awoke with my alarm at 8am to find another text message from her saying a medical condition she has had flared up overnight and she couldn't get out of bed.
This was a DISASTER! The shoot was meant to be starting in less than 3 hours, and I knew that the chances of getting a replacement at such short notice was slim at best. As a complete shot in the dark, I sent out a few messages mainly to models who I had shot with previously and ones I thought who might be close enough to get to us in time. I pretty much resigned myself to making the best job out of a shoot with only one model and started to plan for that. Then a miracle happened, Jessie text back and said she was free and could make it. We had to push the start time back a little but that was a small price to pay. This was an amazing result. I met Sylwia at the station, then Jessie arrived and we had a great day. We had got there in the end but what a roller coaster!
If you have got this far, well done. Believe it or not this is actually an abridged version of about 3 months or so! It should give you an idea of the amount of time and effort I had to put in and how frustrating it can be. Enjoy some photos taken by the amazing Jeremy Custard from the two shoots. Look out for content from them coming later this year. I'm off for a lie down now!!
In my book models need to be: Attractive, be willing to work topless at a minimum, be prepared to get very messy, have a good sense of humour, be available on the date, be prepared to work for the rate I offer, have reasonable travel costs for getting to the shoot and be organised enough to communicate effectively and turn up on the right day at the right time. Finding someone that ticks all of these boxes is NOT easy. In particular many models don't have the best communication skills.
I started the year with a list of models I would like to work with or a "to goo" list as I call it. Once I had dates confirmed that we could shoot I began contacting them. Two of them came back and said they were interested but unavailable on the dates. Another five didn't respond at all, including a model I had worked with before. A great start!
Another model who has shot with other producers came back and said she was interested but her travel was going to be expensive and she would need to stay over in a hotel. A fan wanted to see her shoot with us so much they offered to pay towards this. She said she would check about childcare and get back to me but I never heard anything despite chasing a couple of times.
A professional Dominatrix who expressed an interest in getting messy came back to me saying she was interested. I sent her some more details but didn't hear back from her. Chased still no response. A model who I have worked with before came back and said she was interested but she wanted a higher rate and her travel costs were high, she would also need a hotel room for the night. In the end I decided the cost was just too much despite her being really good.
I contacted a girl through the UMD who produces messy content. She messaged back saying she was interested but to contact her through Instagram. I tried to but I barely use that platform and the message wouldn't send. I tried contacting her through UMD again but no response.
I contacted the final girl on my list. She had never done messy content before but she did list on her profile that she wanted to do anything "Messy or crazy". She came back straight away and was super enthusiastic and easy to deal with and I booked her in. Huzzah, one model booked but I needed three more and I needed to start looking beyond my list.
I started looking at models relatively close to the studio to try and keep the costs down. Two ladies came back to say that it sounded fun but they were out of the country and would check the site out on their return. Several didn't respond at all and two said it wasn't for them.
I then had an idea about the girl who I originally contacted through UMD, I contacted another producer who she had done content for, and they kindly put us in touch by e-mail. She confirmed she was free on the date and was happy with everything. I asked her to confirm her travel costs and a contact number. Around this time, I tried contacting the Dominatrix again as she seemed really keen. She did come back this time and apologised that my messages had been going to her junk but didn't confirm if she was free on the dates. I messaged he back trying to get confirmation, but it all went quiet for a while again.
I contacted another local model who had quite a lot of kink stuff in her portfolio, but she had never done messy stuff before. She was really keen and had great communication. So, I got her booked in. This was Sylwia. Two sorted! Around this time the Dominatrix came back to me and confirmed she was free on the date and asked who she would be shooting with, suggesting a couple of her friends. I suggested Sylwia and sent her a photo thinking they might be a good match up, again everything went quiet. One of the ladies who had been out of the country eventually came back to me and said she had checked it out and it wasn't for her.
By this time the shoots were starting to get close. I had two ladies confirmed and was waiting for another two to confirm. I chased a few times but eventually gave up on the Dominatrix. I tried asking a few other producers for ideas, one of them contacted a model for me but she was unavailable on the date. I then got in touch with another local model. She asked a lot of questions and like the other girls had never done messy stuff before, she decided to give it a go. This was Luna.
It was now two weeks before the shoots and the girl I originally contact through the UMD still hadn't confirmed her travel costs or contact number and I was getting worried. She did respond a few times promising to do it asap as she was busy but nothing materialised. I tried chasing again but got a response saying that she didn't really user her e-mails and asked if I could contact her by phone, however she didn't provide her phone number! I sent her mine again and set a deadline for her to get back to me because now I was seriously worried. I contacted another model who came back straight away with a very enthusiastic response and said she was free. I explained the situation and said if I didn't hear back from the other girl to confirm before the deadline, I had set the shoot was hers. "Is it bad that I hope she doesn't come back to you, I really want to do this." she responded. She got her wish! This was Kim. So, I finally had a lineup of four ladies and none of them had done messy content before (well Kim had done some body paint and a photoshoot in a bath of baked beans but nothing like what we do).
The first shoot went pretty much to plan, both girls Kim & Luna turned up and we had a good, very messy day. That evening I realised I hadn't heard from one of the models for the next day. The models normally text me the night before just to confirm the day before a shoot that all is well. I wasn't too worried though, this was the first model who I had managed to book in from this saga and her communication had been great. At 2am I awoke to a text from her saying sorry she missed my message and all was fine. I went back to sleep and awoke with my alarm at 8am to find another text message from her saying a medical condition she has had flared up overnight and she couldn't get out of bed.
This was a DISASTER! The shoot was meant to be starting in less than 3 hours, and I knew that the chances of getting a replacement at such short notice was slim at best. As a complete shot in the dark, I sent out a few messages mainly to models who I had shot with previously and ones I thought who might be close enough to get to us in time. I pretty much resigned myself to making the best job out of a shoot with only one model and started to plan for that. Then a miracle happened, Jessie text back and said she was free and could make it. We had to push the start time back a little but that was a small price to pay. This was an amazing result. I met Sylwia at the station, then Jessie arrived and we had a great day. We had got there in the end but what a roller coaster!
If you have got this far, well done. Believe it or not this is actually an abridged version of about 3 months or so! It should give you an idea of the amount of time and effort I had to put in and how frustrating it can be. Enjoy some photos taken by the amazing Jeremy Custard from the two shoots. Look out for content from them coming later this year. I'm off for a lie down now!!
bosunbob said: This is an account of trying to book models for my recent weekend of shoots. It should give a bit of insight of just how hard it can be to be a producer. Not just in terms of all the work preparing games, and mess for the shoot, shooting the content and clearing up afterwards but the problems we can face getting ladies to participate in the shoots.
In my book models need to be: Attractive, be willing to work topless at a minimum, be prepared to get very messy, have a good sense of humour, be available on the date, be prepared to work for the rate I offer, have reasonable travel costs for getting to the shoot and be organised enough to communicate effectively and turn up on the right day at the right time. Finding someone that ticks all of these boxes is NOT easy. In particular many models don't have the best communication skills.
I started the year with a list of models I would like to work with or a "to goo" list as I call it. Once I had dates confirmed that we could shoot I began contacting them. Two of them came back and said they were interested but unavailable on the dates. Another five didn't respond at all, including a model I had worked with before. A great start!
Another model who has shot with other producers came back and said she was interested but her travel was going to be expensive and she would need to stay over in a hotel. A fan wanted to see her shoot with us so much they offered to pay towards this. She said she would check about childcare and get back to me but I never heard anything despite chasing a couple of times.
A professional Dominatrix who expressed an interest in getting messy came back to me saying she was interested. I sent her some more details but didn't hear back from her. Chased still no response.
A model who I have worked with before came back and said she was interested but she wanted a higher rate and her travel costs were high, she would also need a hotel room for the night. In the end I decided the cost was just too much despite her being really good.
I contacted a girl through the UMD who produces messy content. She messaged back saying she was interested but to contact her through Instagram. I tried to but I barely use that platform and the message wouldn't send. I tried contacting her through UMD again but no response.
I contacted the final girl on my list. She had never done messy content before but she did list on her profile that she wanted to do anything "Messy or crazy". She came back straight away and was super enthusiastic and easy to deal with and I booked her in. Huzzah, one model booked but I needed three more and I needed to start looking beyond my list.
I started looking at models relatively close to the studio to try and keep the costs down. Two ladies came back to say that it sounded fun but they were out of the country and would check the site out on their return. Several didn't respond at all and two said it wasn't for them.
I then had an idea about the girl who I originally contacted through UMD, I contacted another producer who she had done content for, and they kindly put us in touch by e-mail. She confirmed she was free on the date and was happy with everything. I asked her to confirm her travel costs and a contact number. Around this time, I tried contacting the Dominatrix again as she seemed really keen. She did come back this time and apologised that my messages had been going to her junk but didn't confirm if she was free on the dates. I messaged he back trying to get confirmation, but it all went quiet for a while again.
I contacted another local model who had quite a lot of kink stuff in her portfolio, but she had never done messy stuff before. She was really keen and had great communication. So, I got her booked in. This was Sylwia. Two sorted! Around this time the Dominatrix came back to me and confirmed she was free on the date and asked who she would be shooting with, suggesting a couple of her friends. I suggested Sylwia and sent her a photo thinking they might be a good match up, again everything went quiet. One of the ladies who had been out of the country eventually came back to me and said she had checked it out and it wasn't for her.
By this time the shoots were starting to get close. I had two ladies confirmed and was waiting for another two to confirm. I chased a few times but eventually gave up on the Dominatrix. I tried asking a few other producers for ideas, one of them contacted a model for me but she was unavailable on the date. I then got in touch with another local model. She asked a lot of questions and like the other girls had never done messy stuff before, she decided to give it a go. This was Luna.
It was now two weeks before the shoots and the girl I originally contact through the UMD still hadn't confirmed her travel costs or contact number and I was getting worried. She did respond a few times promising to do it asap as she was busy but nothing materialised. I tried chasing again but got a response saying that she didn't really user her e-mails and asked if I could contact her by phone, however she didn't provide her phone number! I sent her mine again and set a deadline for her to get back to me because now I was seriously worried. I contacted another model who came back straight away with a very enthusiastic response and said she was free. I explained the situation and said if I didn't hear back from the other girl to confirm before the deadline, I had set the shoot was hers. "Is it bad that I hope she doesn't come back to you, I really want to do this." she responded. She got her wish! This was Kim. So, I finally had a lineup of four ladies and none of them had done messy content before (well Kim had done some body paint and a photoshoot in a bath of baked beans but nothing like what we do).
The first shoot went pretty much to plan, both girls Kim & Luna turned up and we had a good, very messy day. That evening I realised I hadn't heard from one of the models for the next day. The models normally text me the night before just to confirm the day before a shoot that all is well. I wasn't too worried though, this was the first model who I had managed to book in from this saga and her communication had been great. At 2am I awoke to a text from her saying sorry she missed my message and all was fine. I went back to sleep and awoke with my alarm at 8am to find another text message from her saying a medical condition she has had flared up overnight and she couldn't get out of bed.
This was a DISASTER! The shoot was meant to be starting in less than 3 hours, and I knew that the chances of getting a replacement at such short notice was slim at best. As a complete shot in the dark, I sent out a few messages mainly to models who I had shot with previously and ones I thought who might be close enough to get to us in time. I pretty much resigned myself to making the best job out of a shoot with only one model and started to plan for that. Then a miracle happened, Jessie text back and said she was free and could make it. We had to push the start time back a little but that was a small price to pay. This was an amazing result. I met Sylwia at the station, then Jessie arrived and we had a great day. We had got there in the end but what a roller coaster!
If you have got this far, well done. Believe it or not this is actually an abridged version of about 3 months or so! It should give you an idea of the amount of time and effort I had to put in and how frustrating it can be. Enjoy some photos taken by the amazing Jeremy Custard from the two shoots. Look out for content from them coming later this year. I'm off for a lie down now!!
In my book models need to be: Attractive, be willing to work topless at a minimum, be prepared to get very messy, have a good sense of humour, be available on the date, be prepared to work for the rate I offer, have reasonable travel costs for getting to the shoot and be organised enough to communicate effectively and turn up on the right day at the right time. Finding someone that ticks all of these boxes is NOT easy. In particular many models don't have the best communication skills.
I started the year with a list of models I would like to work with or a "to goo" list as I call it. Once I had dates confirmed that we could shoot I began contacting them. Two of them came back and said they were interested but unavailable on the dates. Another five didn't respond at all, including a model I had worked with before. A great start!
Another model who has shot with other producers came back and said she was interested but her travel was going to be expensive and she would need to stay over in a hotel. A fan wanted to see her shoot with us so much they offered to pay towards this. She said she would check about childcare and get back to me but I never heard anything despite chasing a couple of times.
A professional Dominatrix who expressed an interest in getting messy came back to me saying she was interested. I sent her some more details but didn't hear back from her. Chased still no response.
A model who I have worked with before came back and said she was interested but she wanted a higher rate and her travel costs were high, she would also need a hotel room for the night. In the end I decided the cost was just too much despite her being really good.
I contacted a girl through the UMD who produces messy content. She messaged back saying she was interested but to contact her through Instagram. I tried to but I barely use that platform and the message wouldn't send. I tried contacting her through UMD again but no response.
I contacted the final girl on my list. She had never done messy content before but she did list on her profile that she wanted to do anything "Messy or crazy". She came back straight away and was super enthusiastic and easy to deal with and I booked her in. Huzzah, one model booked but I needed three more and I needed to start looking beyond my list.
I started looking at models relatively close to the studio to try and keep the costs down. Two ladies came back to say that it sounded fun but they were out of the country and would check the site out on their return. Several didn't respond at all and two said it wasn't for them.
I then had an idea about the girl who I originally contacted through UMD, I contacted another producer who she had done content for, and they kindly put us in touch by e-mail. She confirmed she was free on the date and was happy with everything. I asked her to confirm her travel costs and a contact number. Around this time, I tried contacting the Dominatrix again as she seemed really keen. She did come back this time and apologised that my messages had been going to her junk but didn't confirm if she was free on the dates. I messaged he back trying to get confirmation, but it all went quiet for a while again.
I contacted another local model who had quite a lot of kink stuff in her portfolio, but she had never done messy stuff before. She was really keen and had great communication. So, I got her booked in. This was Sylwia. Two sorted! Around this time the Dominatrix came back to me and confirmed she was free on the date and asked who she would be shooting with, suggesting a couple of her friends. I suggested Sylwia and sent her a photo thinking they might be a good match up, again everything went quiet. One of the ladies who had been out of the country eventually came back to me and said she had checked it out and it wasn't for her.
By this time the shoots were starting to get close. I had two ladies confirmed and was waiting for another two to confirm. I chased a few times but eventually gave up on the Dominatrix. I tried asking a few other producers for ideas, one of them contacted a model for me but she was unavailable on the date. I then got in touch with another local model. She asked a lot of questions and like the other girls had never done messy stuff before, she decided to give it a go. This was Luna.
It was now two weeks before the shoots and the girl I originally contact through the UMD still hadn't confirmed her travel costs or contact number and I was getting worried. She did respond a few times promising to do it asap as she was busy but nothing materialised. I tried chasing again but got a response saying that she didn't really user her e-mails and asked if I could contact her by phone, however she didn't provide her phone number! I sent her mine again and set a deadline for her to get back to me because now I was seriously worried. I contacted another model who came back straight away with a very enthusiastic response and said she was free. I explained the situation and said if I didn't hear back from the other girl to confirm before the deadline, I had set the shoot was hers. "Is it bad that I hope she doesn't come back to you, I really want to do this." she responded. She got her wish! This was Kim. So, I finally had a lineup of four ladies and none of them had done messy content before (well Kim had done some body paint and a photoshoot in a bath of baked beans but nothing like what we do).
The first shoot went pretty much to plan, both girls Kim & Luna turned up and we had a good, very messy day. That evening I realised I hadn't heard from one of the models for the next day. The models normally text me the night before just to confirm the day before a shoot that all is well. I wasn't too worried though, this was the first model who I had managed to book in from this saga and her communication had been great. At 2am I awoke to a text from her saying sorry she missed my message and all was fine. I went back to sleep and awoke with my alarm at 8am to find another text message from her saying a medical condition she has had flared up overnight and she couldn't get out of bed.
This was a DISASTER! The shoot was meant to be starting in less than 3 hours, and I knew that the chances of getting a replacement at such short notice was slim at best. As a complete shot in the dark, I sent out a few messages mainly to models who I had shot with previously and ones I thought who might be close enough to get to us in time. I pretty much resigned myself to making the best job out of a shoot with only one model and started to plan for that. Then a miracle happened, Jessie text back and said she was free and could make it. We had to push the start time back a little but that was a small price to pay. This was an amazing result. I met Sylwia at the station, then Jessie arrived and we had a great day. We had got there in the end but what a roller coaster!
If you have got this far, well done. Believe it or not this is actually an abridged version of about 3 months or so! It should give you an idea of the amount of time and effort I had to put in and how frustrating it can be. Enjoy some photos taken by the amazing Jeremy Custard from the two shoots. Look out for content from them coming later this year. I'm off for a lie down now!!
This. 100% this.
It's such a familiar story. I know of those challenges all too well.
I am so pleased that it worked out in the end, but that worry and stress and everything you describe...I feel it.
I remember a while back someone asked why do models like Lottie Lalay and Bri and Faerie Willow get booked over and over. It's because as a producer, when you find models who are great with comms, and super reliable and great at delivering wam, you just want to book and book and book them, to avoid aging decades
Well done Bob and the content looks amazing
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Whew! I got second-hand anxiety reading through the whole thing. You really articulated how casting can become the least favorite part of a producer's production process. As someone else who specializes in multi-person shoot days, this is a very accurate timeline and breakdown of how the process can go.
A few things I've noticed are really helpful in making sure models stay communicative and committed to the shoot: Phone screens, a call sheet with the date printed bold and frequently, and a few strategically sent follow-ups in the days leading up to it ("I'm going to the store, let me know what snacks and drinks and I pick up for you" a few days before, then "A professional courtesy that we have a shoot tomorrow" the afternoon before). Firm professionalism inspires everyone else around you to step their professionalism game up while filtering out those who are prone to flaking.
Maddening still is that for my last couple of shoot I wasn't even able to book everyone until a day or two before shoot day. For some reason, models HATE planning ahead for gigs months in advance. You can have a casting call out and start sending cold calls whenever you want, but the bulk of interest isn't going to come until people are planning out their calendars for the next week. Really makes peace of mind hard to come by.
And, of course, not to pocket-watch you, but the best motivator to ensure the models you want arrive when they say they'll arrive is to make sure the compensation is worth more than sleeping in. Being a producer kinda sucks, doesn't it?
A few things I've noticed are really helpful in making sure models stay communicative and committed to the shoot: Phone screens, a call sheet with the date printed bold and frequently, and a few strategically sent follow-ups in the days leading up to it ("I'm going to the store, let me know what snacks and drinks and I pick up for you" a few days before, then "A professional courtesy that we have a shoot tomorrow" the afternoon before). Firm professionalism inspires everyone else around you to step their professionalism game up while filtering out those who are prone to flaking.
Maddening still is that for my last couple of shoot I wasn't even able to book everyone until a day or two before shoot day. For some reason, models HATE planning ahead for gigs months in advance. You can have a casting call out and start sending cold calls whenever you want, but the bulk of interest isn't going to come until people are planning out their calendars for the next week. Really makes peace of mind hard to come by.
And, of course, not to pocket-watch you, but the best motivator to ensure the models you want arrive when they say they'll arrive is to make sure the compensation is worth more than sleeping in. Being a producer kinda sucks, doesn't it?
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This is spot on, 100%. The vast majority of my time, effort, and frustration is with casting. Especially for multi-girl scenes, which we specialize in, multiply that by an order of magnitude. We have had numerous models flake, ghost, miss their flights, or not show up to a shoot at all.
But then there are the absolute gems of models who are enthusiastic, gorgeous, and great communicators. I'll leave a few pics of some of those that come immediately to mind. That's why I love featuring them so much!
But then there are the absolute gems of models who are enthusiastic, gorgeous, and great communicators. I'll leave a few pics of some of those that come immediately to mind. That's why I love featuring them so much!
And here I thought making plans to get messy with one other person was as challenging as it got...
OK, I didn't think that. I figured it was harder for producers to line up models.. but I had no idea just *how* hard.That said, I'm not really surprised. I don't know why.
OK, I didn't think that. I figured it was harder for producers to line up models.. but I had no idea just *how* hard.That said, I'm not really surprised. I don't know why.
I call it 'Cat Herding'
Phil
Phil
as painful as this was for you to go through, and as much solidarity-trauma as it instilled in other producers, I loved this post.
I love hearing how the sausage is made, but in certain ways. I'm a big fan of movies, and I love to hear how the thing came together, the struggles, what could've been, how it ended up being that cast and so on. So, same deal here.
It's always fun to hear titillation and "the good stuff" or some wild drama (for example, the WAMTECH/Florida pie stuff), but I read every word of this and appreciated just how much effort, time, patience, diligence when into this shoot, and others like it based on the added words of other producers.
For me, WAM is definitely about the models involved, there's just such a breadth of content. And I feel like I have a habit (not intended) of loving models that end up being one-and-dones. Many of my favorites are not legacy models, fan favorites, or ones that appear consistently and frequently (save for a few of MG's). But I always appreciate how hard it is to pull off anything resembling a quality, professional shoot.
It's not necessarily surprising that models can be flaky doing this kind of work (meaning, it's not Playboy or a massive national print campaign, it's fetish work, designed to be seen on a much smaller scale/niche, in the grand scheme of things), but I am surprised to hear that they don't love planting flags in the calendar and booking things, for their own peace of mind re: actual paying work that they can pay their monthly bills with. From the outside, when you look at modeling sites/bookings etc you get the sense that models treat it seriously and keep their ducks in a row about when they're traveling and where, but also I'm not a beautiful 23 year old, either. (Ah, to be young, lovely and carefree...)
Thanks for sharing, and - though I don't like to hear of producers suffering so much for their art - I would love to hear more of these stories, as it helps the "live vicariously through" part of the whole thing.
JY
I love hearing how the sausage is made, but in certain ways. I'm a big fan of movies, and I love to hear how the thing came together, the struggles, what could've been, how it ended up being that cast and so on. So, same deal here.
It's always fun to hear titillation and "the good stuff" or some wild drama (for example, the WAMTECH/Florida pie stuff), but I read every word of this and appreciated just how much effort, time, patience, diligence when into this shoot, and others like it based on the added words of other producers.
For me, WAM is definitely about the models involved, there's just such a breadth of content. And I feel like I have a habit (not intended) of loving models that end up being one-and-dones. Many of my favorites are not legacy models, fan favorites, or ones that appear consistently and frequently (save for a few of MG's). But I always appreciate how hard it is to pull off anything resembling a quality, professional shoot.
It's not necessarily surprising that models can be flaky doing this kind of work (meaning, it's not Playboy or a massive national print campaign, it's fetish work, designed to be seen on a much smaller scale/niche, in the grand scheme of things), but I am surprised to hear that they don't love planting flags in the calendar and booking things, for their own peace of mind re: actual paying work that they can pay their monthly bills with. From the outside, when you look at modeling sites/bookings etc you get the sense that models treat it seriously and keep their ducks in a row about when they're traveling and where, but also I'm not a beautiful 23 year old, either. (Ah, to be young, lovely and carefree...)
Thanks for sharing, and - though I don't like to hear of producers suffering so much for their art - I would love to hear more of these stories, as it helps the "live vicariously through" part of the whole thing.
JY
As someone who has now a lot of experience of model recruitment, I have learnt that the key bit is in the initial conversation. If they have done it before, they will do it again! If you are clear what it entails it will happen.
As someone who has felt your recruitment pain back in the MM "home" shoots, I remember mid emergency when we had a no show and I was picking the other model up "call Annabelle" was the call and lo Messymayhem was saved!
As someone who has felt your recruitment pain back in the MM "home" shoots, I remember mid emergency when we had a no show and I was picking the other model up "call Annabelle" was the call and lo Messymayhem was saved!
Thanks guys.
100% it makes life so much easier.
I had a discussion with Jeremy Custard about this at the pub after one of the shoots. It would be very easy to just work with the same ladies all the time. However I worry about content stagnating and getting samey. Plus models don't continue to work forever at some point you need to introduce someone new and that's why I feel the need to try and find new talent. If you find someone who is great then it can be very rewarding.
Yes, sometimes! I think some people have a very rose tinted view of what we do which is one reason why I wrote this post. At other times though it's an awful lot of fun
I'll leave you with a reference from one of the models that we worked with which was rather nice:
"I had a fantastic experience working with this photographer on a messy gunge shoot. His pre-shoot communication was excellent -- everything was clearly explained, from the concept to the plan for the day, which made me feel fully prepared and at ease. On the day itself, he was professional throughout, but also a genuinely fun person to be around, which really helped create a relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere.
The studio owner and his assistant were equally professional and respectful, adding to the overall positive experience. As it was my first time doing a messy shoot, I couldn't have asked for a better introduction -- everything was well organised, smooth, and great fun from start to finish. I'd happily work with him again and would definitely recommend him to others."
ArchNemesis said:
But then there are the absolute gems of models who are enthusiastic, gorgeous, and great communicators. I'll leave a few pics of some of those that come immediately to mind. That's why I love featuring them so much!
But then there are the absolute gems of models who are enthusiastic, gorgeous, and great communicators. I'll leave a few pics of some of those that come immediately to mind. That's why I love featuring them so much!
100% it makes life so much easier.
RevSlymsford said:
I remember a while back someone asked why do models like Lottie Lalay and Bri and Faerie Willow get booked over and over. It's because as a producer, when you find models who are great with comms, and super reliable and great at delivering wam, you just want to book and book and book them, to avoid aging decades
I remember a while back someone asked why do models like Lottie Lalay and Bri and Faerie Willow get booked over and over. It's because as a producer, when you find models who are great with comms, and super reliable and great at delivering wam, you just want to book and book and book them, to avoid aging decades
I had a discussion with Jeremy Custard about this at the pub after one of the shoots. It would be very easy to just work with the same ladies all the time. However I worry about content stagnating and getting samey. Plus models don't continue to work forever at some point you need to introduce someone new and that's why I feel the need to try and find new talent. If you find someone who is great then it can be very rewarding.
TheSpecialist said:
Being a producer kinda sucks, doesn't it?
Being a producer kinda sucks, doesn't it?
Yes, sometimes! I think some people have a very rose tinted view of what we do which is one reason why I wrote this post. At other times though it's an awful lot of fun
I'll leave you with a reference from one of the models that we worked with which was rather nice:
"I had a fantastic experience working with this photographer on a messy gunge shoot. His pre-shoot communication was excellent -- everything was clearly explained, from the concept to the plan for the day, which made me feel fully prepared and at ease. On the day itself, he was professional throughout, but also a genuinely fun person to be around, which really helped create a relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere.
The studio owner and his assistant were equally professional and respectful, adding to the overall positive experience. As it was my first time doing a messy shoot, I couldn't have asked for a better introduction -- everything was well organised, smooth, and great fun from start to finish. I'd happily work with him again and would definitely recommend him to others."
Loved her triggerwords
Firstly Bob thank you for highlighting the hassle of getting models for your site. Congrats on surviving so long and may you continue!
I think the discussion point re using favourite, reliable models is an interesting one. I tend to take the Rev view as although he tends to use popular range of girls, he does produce a wide variety of scenarios and with respect not simply getting girls to sit in the Gungetank and strip from underwear/bikinis to nude. Please don't take this as criticism, you have a niche market and it's great you introduce a variety of girls and clearly people support your work.
I think the discussion point re using favourite, reliable models is an interesting one. I tend to take the Rev view as although he tends to use popular range of girls, he does produce a wide variety of scenarios and with respect not simply getting girls to sit in the Gungetank and strip from underwear/bikinis to nude. Please don't take this as criticism, you have a niche market and it's great you introduce a variety of girls and clearly people support your work.
bosunbob said: Thanks guys
RevSlymsford said:
I remember a while back someone asked why do models like Lottie Lalay and Bri and Faerie Willow get booked over and over. It's because as a producer, when you find models who are great with comms, and super reliable and great at delivering wam, you just want to book and book and book them, to avoid aging decades
I had a discussion with Jeremy Custard about this at the pub after one of the shoots. It would be very easy to just work with the same ladies all the time. However I worry about content stagnating and getting samey. Plus models don't continue to work forever at some point you need to introduce someone new and that's why I feel the need to try and find new talent. If you find someone who is great then it can be very rewarding.
RevSlymsford said:
I remember a while back someone asked why do models like Lottie Lalay and Bri and Faerie Willow get booked over and over. It's because as a producer, when you find models who are great with comms, and super reliable and great at delivering wam, you just want to book and book and book them, to avoid aging decades
I had a discussion with Jeremy Custard about this at the pub after one of the shoots. It would be very easy to just work with the same ladies all the time. However I worry about content stagnating and getting samey. Plus models don't continue to work forever at some point you need to introduce someone new and that's why I feel the need to try and find new talent. If you find someone who is great then it can be very rewarding.
Yes, that's always the dichotomy isn't it. Hopefully we get the balance right. In the past year I've worked with Elle (who'd never done any wam before and almost certainly never will again
), Alora Lux (who I had never worked with before), and another model who I'd never used before who was recommended to me by Ivy (but whose name escapes me right now)...but equally I've had Ivy, and Lottie and Bri and Tamsin all return. As you allude to, I think it's all about balance. Also, as Malc mentions, as I shoot mostly customs, the models end up in a fantastic variety of set-ups with different messes and costumes and scenarios every time which definitely helps keep things fresh too, whereas if you have a specific house style, I can absolutely appreciate that the need to keep changing up the models is more compelling, potentially.
. I definitely agree that there is a nice feeling when you've introduced a new model to wam and they have enjoyed it. Not so much when they don't
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Why must people be like this?!
My 'other' hobby to WAM is climbing. It's amazing the amount of comparable conversations I have trying to arrange trips. "Yes, it is tomorrow. As we agreed three months back. Yes, it is too late to change it now. No, X can't come, he's a known lunatic, and, also, we'd have to strap him to the roof rack unless he's miraculously acquired a car and learned to drive in the last month... Right. Sorted. Hang on, what do you mean do I know about your allergies... No, of course I don't bloody know about your allergies... Are you on drugs...? JFC, in that case should you be on drugs...?"
Glad it all came good anyway, and that's a fine review too. I look forward to the scenes!
My 'other' hobby to WAM is climbing. It's amazing the amount of comparable conversations I have trying to arrange trips. "Yes, it is tomorrow. As we agreed three months back. Yes, it is too late to change it now. No, X can't come, he's a known lunatic, and, also, we'd have to strap him to the roof rack unless he's miraculously acquired a car and learned to drive in the last month... Right. Sorted. Hang on, what do you mean do I know about your allergies... No, of course I don't bloody know about your allergies... Are you on drugs...? JFC, in that case should you be on drugs...?"
Glad it all came good anyway, and that's a fine review too. I look forward to the scenes!
@bosunbob (and any other producers) In regards to the models that have praised your communication and professionalism, and especially with first timers, HOW are you going about explaining the Concept and Expectations of what you do and what is involved?
I'm genuinely looking here for examples of (or just a better way of) explaining the entire concept of a Messy/Fetish Photoshoot to someone so they have a better understanding of what they're signing up for or agreeing to. Especially to someone who is unfamiliar with the concept.
Especially with the Topless (minimum) requirement you have? Do you just seek models who have it on their profile, or do you ask each one directly?
I'm genuinely curious how the back and forth develops and what seems to be common in understanding or misunderstanding until explained by you to the Models.
Do their expectations often match with their first impressions or often disagree with their first impressions or undertsanding of what you do? (or what they thought you meant by a Messy shoot)
I'm genuinely looking here for examples of (or just a better way of) explaining the entire concept of a Messy/Fetish Photoshoot to someone so they have a better understanding of what they're signing up for or agreeing to. Especially to someone who is unfamiliar with the concept.
Especially with the Topless (minimum) requirement you have? Do you just seek models who have it on their profile, or do you ask each one directly?
I'm genuinely curious how the back and forth develops and what seems to be common in understanding or misunderstanding until explained by you to the Models.
Do their expectations often match with their first impressions or often disagree with their first impressions or undertsanding of what you do? (or what they thought you meant by a Messy shoot)
6/21/26, 3:53pm: No-bump reply
I think I have been able to work out who two of the models were! If I am correct, one of them doesn't really enjoy messy work, even though she has done rather a lot of it. Bluntly, she only does it when she is a bit short of money, and that goes for some of her other work, too.
The other is similar in some ways, but she is dealing with a lot, having unwisely signed up with an e-pimp for her subscription sites, and has also been dealing with an equally unpleasant individual in her home life for the last few years.
I might be wrong. They might not be the people you described, but they certainly match what you have written.
Everything turned out well for you in the end, and I know you get good support from people like Rev and Jeremy, but I think you could make things easier for yourself by chatting to a range of non-producers on this site, and to photographers and videographers who don't even make messy content. Everyone picks up information, and the more people who share it with you, the easier things will be.
The other is similar in some ways, but she is dealing with a lot, having unwisely signed up with an e-pimp for her subscription sites, and has also been dealing with an equally unpleasant individual in her home life for the last few years.
I might be wrong. They might not be the people you described, but they certainly match what you have written.
Everything turned out well for you in the end, and I know you get good support from people like Rev and Jeremy, but I think you could make things easier for yourself by chatting to a range of non-producers on this site, and to photographers and videographers who don't even make messy content. Everyone picks up information, and the more people who share it with you, the easier things will be.
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