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"Racism."
Love you, too
I'd like to start a conversation about racism. This topic is long overdue to be discussed here in a real capacity.
I don't want to preach to the choir because I'm sure we all believe that racism is wrong. I just don't think that a lot of us really understand what racism actually is. I think that the average racist defines it as something else, and then says they're not that. It's how they sleep at night.
I'll speak my thoughts, but I really want to know if anyone has any useful perspectives to help educate those who think racists are all in the KKK or burning crosses. It's so much deeper than that, but I never hear that type of discussion in the media or anywhere else. No nuance to those discussions at all, just people yelling about who's right.
What are the types of things that racists do that they don't realize are racist, or that they justify by copping out to another reason? How do we talk to those people about it without the inevitable trigger that short-circuits the conversation? What do you think about white privilege, replacement theory, immigration, and all that? I look forward to a colorful conversation!
I don't want to preach to the choir because I'm sure we all believe that racism is wrong. I just don't think that a lot of us really understand what racism actually is. I think that the average racist defines it as something else, and then says they're not that. It's how they sleep at night.
I'll speak my thoughts, but I really want to know if anyone has any useful perspectives to help educate those who think racists are all in the KKK or burning crosses. It's so much deeper than that, but I never hear that type of discussion in the media or anywhere else. No nuance to those discussions at all, just people yelling about who's right.
What are the types of things that racists do that they don't realize are racist, or that they justify by copping out to another reason? How do we talk to those people about it without the inevitable trigger that short-circuits the conversation? What do you think about white privilege, replacement theory, immigration, and all that? I look forward to a colorful conversation!
Stay messy, my friends
OOH, this is a good topic, especially with the times we're living in. I don't mind putting my foot in my mouth and gaining the ire of some either, I've done it a lot here. And of the people here, I know that you know me, and you know where my heart is.
So, I'll start by saying, I'm definitely a racist. Ouch right, I may as well be a Nazi. But here's the thing, lots of people define "racism" and "racists" as different things with different qualities, etc. So I guess we got to define racism and where we fit into it.
So, here's what the current Merriam-webster dictionary says about racism
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
1. a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2. the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another
Now if we're going that that strict definition, I don't think I'm a racist, or that a majority of people in the world today are. These definitions really are describing the racial bigotry of the past where people truly did believe their race, creed, caste, tribe, whatever were superior to other. And yes, this DOES still exist today, and it always will as long as people are born as individuals and we don't become some sort of hivemind. As the most recent US news story about racial violence in Buffalo NY painfully reminds us.
When I say I'm racist, I mean in the terms that it's commonly thrown around today. And that is any prejudice (preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience), any stereotype, any joke based on groupings of people, any of that is "racist". And that I should state differs from hatred, bigotry etc. Anyone who has ever laughed at a joke about this group or that group, no matter how light hearted or playfully intended is "racist" by the standard we treat the definition today. So, by that standard, we're almost ALL racist, even sometimes against our own groups. White people, black people, Asians, Islanders, Natives, etc. There is no group of people that hasn't talked shit about another group of people. Most of this kind of "racism" is born out of ignorance, trying to be funny, fit in, etc rather than actually being centered in hatred for any one or any group.
But what I see talked about in our media I personally feel isn't really racism either, but a perversion of the word often being thrown around in it's place usually as a redirection (not always mind you). And in it's place I see classism being washed into racism to keep the eyes off the mega rich who truly have the power to do positive things in our world and society. As an example, I'm going to turn to the 2003 Jamie Kennedy comedy "Malibu's Most Wanted".
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328099/
Rather than explain it in detail here, you can look into the description of the movie online. Basically the movie is about the son of a US senator who has a deep love of "black culture" but grew up rich, with a silver spoon in his mouth. His dad hires two classically trained black actors to "scare" his son "white" and stop "acting black". But these actors don't know shit about the hood. Thankfully it's a comedy or it could get really dark really fast, but what we see here are that a lot of the differences proposed by media as being racially based, are more class based.
Now I'm not going to say that there isn't a disproportionate amount of lower class citizens who are black or brown than there are white in our US cities, because the math is very clear on that. There is a lot of inequality still
What I am saying though is that if you look at groups of people interacting, you'll see people of the same social hierarchy interacting with each other more frequently and more amicably than groups of people in the same race of different social and fiscal hierarchy. For instance, how rich white people and black people at the Met Gala or White House Correspondence Dinner will treat each other (at least on the surface), vs how the rich of any race treats their own that are poor. The poor are almost all treated synonymously with "criminals". And we all know the rich and powerful are blameless, right!?
This is prevalent in each racial group individually throughout all of human history. Examples: Whites? British treating Irish and Scots like shit and vice versa for centuries. Germans, French, all of Europe hated and killed each other for thousands of years.
Asia? Hans, vs. Manchus, the hatred triangle that is China, Japan, and Korea. Subjugation of island nations by mainlands.
Africa? The first slavers of black men, were other black men. More technologically advanced Egyptians and Middle Easterners enslaving and selling those from the tribal areas in the heart of the continent.
Then we have colonialism, that's an entirely different topic. But we can see that not only racial differences fueled the bigotry, but the perceived hierarchy who's civilization was more "advanced" vs. "barbaric" therefore "better" comes into play.
All of human history was build on fear or subjugation of each other over differences, but in every society across every race, and every color we can see that we will subjugate "our own" over class even within our own tribes.
So, racism I feel is like the crust of the pie (along with sexism and a couple other -isms). It's what you see first. It's where the attention is drawn to.
It is definitely something that needs to be conquered if we're going to keep this world and our species alive, but I think more deeply we need to examine what we think "value", "worth", and "money" mean, and how those things are perceived, treated, and earned.
So what do we do? Same thing we do with everything. Focus on what YOU can do. Be a kinder and more loving person to anyone you meet. Be conscious of your thoughts and feelings. Be introspective. Examine when you get angry and think about why. Allow yourself to be wrong. Apologize, do better. Don't just hear someone, but listen. Communicate with the intent and desire of understanding.
Love your neighbor as you love yourself and then when EVERY ONE does better, EVERYONE does better.
Potato
So, I'll start by saying, I'm definitely a racist. Ouch right, I may as well be a Nazi. But here's the thing, lots of people define "racism" and "racists" as different things with different qualities, etc. So I guess we got to define racism and where we fit into it.
So, here's what the current Merriam-webster dictionary says about racism
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
1. a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2. the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another
Now if we're going that that strict definition, I don't think I'm a racist, or that a majority of people in the world today are. These definitions really are describing the racial bigotry of the past where people truly did believe their race, creed, caste, tribe, whatever were superior to other. And yes, this DOES still exist today, and it always will as long as people are born as individuals and we don't become some sort of hivemind. As the most recent US news story about racial violence in Buffalo NY painfully reminds us.
When I say I'm racist, I mean in the terms that it's commonly thrown around today. And that is any prejudice (preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience), any stereotype, any joke based on groupings of people, any of that is "racist". And that I should state differs from hatred, bigotry etc. Anyone who has ever laughed at a joke about this group or that group, no matter how light hearted or playfully intended is "racist" by the standard we treat the definition today. So, by that standard, we're almost ALL racist, even sometimes against our own groups. White people, black people, Asians, Islanders, Natives, etc. There is no group of people that hasn't talked shit about another group of people. Most of this kind of "racism" is born out of ignorance, trying to be funny, fit in, etc rather than actually being centered in hatred for any one or any group.
But what I see talked about in our media I personally feel isn't really racism either, but a perversion of the word often being thrown around in it's place usually as a redirection (not always mind you). And in it's place I see classism being washed into racism to keep the eyes off the mega rich who truly have the power to do positive things in our world and society. As an example, I'm going to turn to the 2003 Jamie Kennedy comedy "Malibu's Most Wanted".
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328099/
Rather than explain it in detail here, you can look into the description of the movie online. Basically the movie is about the son of a US senator who has a deep love of "black culture" but grew up rich, with a silver spoon in his mouth. His dad hires two classically trained black actors to "scare" his son "white" and stop "acting black". But these actors don't know shit about the hood. Thankfully it's a comedy or it could get really dark really fast, but what we see here are that a lot of the differences proposed by media as being racially based, are more class based.
Now I'm not going to say that there isn't a disproportionate amount of lower class citizens who are black or brown than there are white in our US cities, because the math is very clear on that. There is a lot of inequality still
What I am saying though is that if you look at groups of people interacting, you'll see people of the same social hierarchy interacting with each other more frequently and more amicably than groups of people in the same race of different social and fiscal hierarchy. For instance, how rich white people and black people at the Met Gala or White House Correspondence Dinner will treat each other (at least on the surface), vs how the rich of any race treats their own that are poor. The poor are almost all treated synonymously with "criminals". And we all know the rich and powerful are blameless, right!?
This is prevalent in each racial group individually throughout all of human history. Examples: Whites? British treating Irish and Scots like shit and vice versa for centuries. Germans, French, all of Europe hated and killed each other for thousands of years.
Asia? Hans, vs. Manchus, the hatred triangle that is China, Japan, and Korea. Subjugation of island nations by mainlands.
Africa? The first slavers of black men, were other black men. More technologically advanced Egyptians and Middle Easterners enslaving and selling those from the tribal areas in the heart of the continent.
Then we have colonialism, that's an entirely different topic. But we can see that not only racial differences fueled the bigotry, but the perceived hierarchy who's civilization was more "advanced" vs. "barbaric" therefore "better" comes into play.
All of human history was build on fear or subjugation of each other over differences, but in every society across every race, and every color we can see that we will subjugate "our own" over class even within our own tribes.
So, racism I feel is like the crust of the pie (along with sexism and a couple other -isms). It's what you see first. It's where the attention is drawn to.
It is definitely something that needs to be conquered if we're going to keep this world and our species alive, but I think more deeply we need to examine what we think "value", "worth", and "money" mean, and how those things are perceived, treated, and earned.
So what do we do? Same thing we do with everything. Focus on what YOU can do. Be a kinder and more loving person to anyone you meet. Be conscious of your thoughts and feelings. Be introspective. Examine when you get angry and think about why. Allow yourself to be wrong. Apologize, do better. Don't just hear someone, but listen. Communicate with the intent and desire of understanding.
Love your neighbor as you love yourself and then when EVERY ONE does better, EVERYONE does better.
PotatoHe's more potato now than man. Twisted and evil.
In essence it 'd be best to look to those who faced down racist violence head on and came out with certain viewpoints on it. Namely those belonging to the New Afrikan liberation struggle or those fighting Apartheid South Africa on how best to confront these since we saw heavily state institutionalized and deputized whites work hand in hand in some of the most obscene acts of racialist violence that specifically propped up a level of society (and still does in new ways)
So Kwame Ture (probs most prominent as a fighter in Mississippi during the voting rights struggle) says "If a white man wants to lynch me, that's his problem. If he's got the power to lynch me, that's my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it's a question of power." In essence if those in power (media, politicians, public figures, union reps ect) expel such an agenda and excuse it then these racialisms will be dripped down to the public level and atrocities happen. These things dont exist in a vacuum and to pretend they just come out of nowhere is to be ahsitorical. The history of lynchings in the United States give itself to the psychological benefits of such a racist power (Du Bois calls it the wages of whiteness i.e. psychological gains by being in such a position of power over someone you can essentially legally torture and kill them in public with no repercussion). And these weren't necessarily organised racialists like the Klan or the state but deputized townsfolk who took it upon themselves to burn, castrate and hang those they deemed guilty. You want a modern example, look at how George Zimmerman parades around these days like he's a fucking celebrity for shooting an unarmed black child.
Essentially what we're getting into here is a subject we'd call whiteness. Despite what certain peeps say this is a fairly new concept from the trade over from feudalism into modern capitalism. According to Cedric Robinson instead of capitalism simply negating all of feudalism social theories, it instead transforms them to justify its own "primary accumulation" (the taking of resources through pure bloodshed as happened to the indigenous peoples of the Americas or the people of the Congo under the Belgium's). So Europe took its own theories on racism from feudalism (towards say Slavs or Irish whose land was stolen and people murdered) and placed upon the new colonies of Europe in Africa. Here you get a changeover cos christian missionaries on the plantations on the Caribbean said all men were born equal under Christ so slavery cant be justified on religious ground (as it had been before). The planter class note this and instead propagate a new idea based on skin colour and thus scientific racism is born under the modern nation state with quack science being birther about fuckin shit about things like head shapes become dispelled. Who becomes white is a simple matter though of willing to kill who's lower than you which is always the subject of the slave (see Noel Ignatiev's book How The Irish Became White)
So how the fuck do you defeat it? You sap the power that comes from whiteness. The late great Fred Hampton attempted a coalition building exercise based on working class power and that seemed to have legs in uniting until the police murdered him at point blank range. Others have more far out theories. J Sakai for instance sees America entirely as a setter state and only thorough disintegration and the forming of an independent black republic could things be solved. Steve Biko also saw the integration line as a falsehood since little could change under and barely reformed system. Malcolm X I'm pretty sure most know had similar opinions. King himself by the end of his life was ck of the little progress seen by white liberals. Robert F Williams likewise saw essentially a black self dependent mass that was economically repatriated and in control of its own destiny as able to collapse white power since black proletarians could no longer be used as exchange value (prison work, low paid labour ect). The final outcome is not guessable and nor should it be, but these are some theories at least.
In short, black self defense and economic power, whites stop allying with their bosses and upper class, social conflict presumes (as has been the case throughout all of history, just the way things work im afraid) and then you get socialism or barbarism as Luxembourg put it. Liberalism is not the end of the history since it cant actually fulfill what it promises so either a resurgent bourgeois emerges under fascism (ie what happened in Germany and Italy or even places like Algeria where the settlers turn their back on the french state for a secret far right army group. Or you get huge societal sweeping changes such as China under Mao or Russia under Lenin. Who's winning and not getting shot in either of those circumstances (someones always getting shot, even under liberalism. Check how Eden and Macmillan dealt with Kenyans during the Mau Mau rebellion or how people in the North of Ireland fared under the liberal democratic elected governments of Westminster) is just a matter of class or traitorship (start singing which side are you on)
Some readings on this all I'd recommend if ya want something better than some fucker sitting in a different hellhole.
Black Marxism by Cedric Robinson
Soul of White Folk by Du Bois
Treason to Whiteness Is Loyalty to Humanity by Noel Ignatiev
Settlers by J Sakai
The Dawn of the Apocalypse by Gerald Horne (he has many other great writings)
I Write What I Like by Steve Biko
Panther Vision by Rashid Johnson
Black Bolshevik by Harry Haywood
So Kwame Ture (probs most prominent as a fighter in Mississippi during the voting rights struggle) says "If a white man wants to lynch me, that's his problem. If he's got the power to lynch me, that's my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it's a question of power." In essence if those in power (media, politicians, public figures, union reps ect) expel such an agenda and excuse it then these racialisms will be dripped down to the public level and atrocities happen. These things dont exist in a vacuum and to pretend they just come out of nowhere is to be ahsitorical. The history of lynchings in the United States give itself to the psychological benefits of such a racist power (Du Bois calls it the wages of whiteness i.e. psychological gains by being in such a position of power over someone you can essentially legally torture and kill them in public with no repercussion). And these weren't necessarily organised racialists like the Klan or the state but deputized townsfolk who took it upon themselves to burn, castrate and hang those they deemed guilty. You want a modern example, look at how George Zimmerman parades around these days like he's a fucking celebrity for shooting an unarmed black child.
Essentially what we're getting into here is a subject we'd call whiteness. Despite what certain peeps say this is a fairly new concept from the trade over from feudalism into modern capitalism. According to Cedric Robinson instead of capitalism simply negating all of feudalism social theories, it instead transforms them to justify its own "primary accumulation" (the taking of resources through pure bloodshed as happened to the indigenous peoples of the Americas or the people of the Congo under the Belgium's). So Europe took its own theories on racism from feudalism (towards say Slavs or Irish whose land was stolen and people murdered) and placed upon the new colonies of Europe in Africa. Here you get a changeover cos christian missionaries on the plantations on the Caribbean said all men were born equal under Christ so slavery cant be justified on religious ground (as it had been before). The planter class note this and instead propagate a new idea based on skin colour and thus scientific racism is born under the modern nation state with quack science being birther about fuckin shit about things like head shapes become dispelled. Who becomes white is a simple matter though of willing to kill who's lower than you which is always the subject of the slave (see Noel Ignatiev's book How The Irish Became White)
So how the fuck do you defeat it? You sap the power that comes from whiteness. The late great Fred Hampton attempted a coalition building exercise based on working class power and that seemed to have legs in uniting until the police murdered him at point blank range. Others have more far out theories. J Sakai for instance sees America entirely as a setter state and only thorough disintegration and the forming of an independent black republic could things be solved. Steve Biko also saw the integration line as a falsehood since little could change under and barely reformed system. Malcolm X I'm pretty sure most know had similar opinions. King himself by the end of his life was ck of the little progress seen by white liberals. Robert F Williams likewise saw essentially a black self dependent mass that was economically repatriated and in control of its own destiny as able to collapse white power since black proletarians could no longer be used as exchange value (prison work, low paid labour ect). The final outcome is not guessable and nor should it be, but these are some theories at least.
In short, black self defense and economic power, whites stop allying with their bosses and upper class, social conflict presumes (as has been the case throughout all of history, just the way things work im afraid) and then you get socialism or barbarism as Luxembourg put it. Liberalism is not the end of the history since it cant actually fulfill what it promises so either a resurgent bourgeois emerges under fascism (ie what happened in Germany and Italy or even places like Algeria where the settlers turn their back on the french state for a secret far right army group. Or you get huge societal sweeping changes such as China under Mao or Russia under Lenin. Who's winning and not getting shot in either of those circumstances (someones always getting shot, even under liberalism. Check how Eden and Macmillan dealt with Kenyans during the Mau Mau rebellion or how people in the North of Ireland fared under the liberal democratic elected governments of Westminster) is just a matter of class or traitorship (start singing which side are you on)
Some readings on this all I'd recommend if ya want something better than some fucker sitting in a different hellhole.
Black Marxism by Cedric Robinson
Soul of White Folk by Du Bois
Treason to Whiteness Is Loyalty to Humanity by Noel Ignatiev
Settlers by J Sakai
The Dawn of the Apocalypse by Gerald Horne (he has many other great writings)
I Write What I Like by Steve Biko
Panther Vision by Rashid Johnson
Black Bolshevik by Harry Haywood
Potatoman-J said: OOH, this is a good topic, especially with the times we're living in. I don't mind putting my foot in my mouth and gaining the ire of some either, I've done it a lot here. And of the people here, I know that you know me, and you know where my heart is.
So, I'll start by saying, I'm definitely a racist. Ouch right, I may as well be a Nazi. But here's the thing, lots of people define "racism" and "racists" as different things with different qualities, etc. So I guess we got to define racism and where we fit into it.
So, here's what the current Merriam-webster dictionary says about racism
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
1. a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2. the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another
Now if we're going that that strict definition, I don't think I'm a racist, or that a majority of people in the world today are. These definitions really are describing the racial bigotry of the past where people truly did believe their race, creed, caste, tribe, whatever were superior to other. And yes, this DOES still exist today, and it always will as long as people are born as individuals and we don't become some sort of hivemind. As the most recent US news story about racial violence in Buffalo NY painfully reminds us.
When I say I'm racist, I mean in the terms that it's commonly thrown around today. And that is any prejudice (preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience), any stereotype, any joke based on groupings of people, any of that is "racist". And that I should state differs from hatred, bigotry etc. Anyone who has ever laughed at a joke about this group or that group, no matter how light hearted or playfully intended is "racist" by the standard we treat the definition today. So, by that standard, we're almost ALL racist, even sometimes against our own groups. White people, black people, Asians, Islanders, Natives, etc. There is no group of people that hasn't talked shit about another group of people. Most of this kind of "racism" is born out of ignorance, trying to be funny, fit in, etc rather than actually being centered in hatred for any one or any group.
But what I see talked about in our media I personally feel isn't really racism either, but a perversion of the word often being thrown around in it's place usually as a redirection (not always mind you). And in it's place I see classism being washed into racism to keep the eyes off the mega rich who truly have the power to do positive things in our world and society. As an example, I'm going to turn to the 2003 Jamie Kennedy comedy "Malibu's Most Wanted".
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328099/
Rather than explain it in detail here, you can look into the description of the movie online. Basically the movie is about the son of a US senator who has a deep love of "black culture" but grew up rich, with a silver spoon in his mouth. His dad hires two classically trained black actors to "scare" his son "white" and stop "acting black". But these actors don't know shit about the hood. Thankfully it's a comedy or it could get really dark really fast, but what we see here are that a lot of the differences proposed by media as being racially based, are more class based.
Now I'm not going to say that there isn't a disproportionate amount of lower class citizens who are black or brown than there are white in our US cities, because the math is very clear on that. There is a lot of inequality still
What I am saying though is that if you look at groups of people interacting, you'll see people of the same social hierarchy interacting with each other more frequently and more amicably than groups of people in the same race of different social and fiscal hierarchy. For instance, how rich white people and black people at the Met Gala or White House Correspondence Dinner will treat each other (at least on the surface), vs how the rich of any race treats their own that are poor. The poor are almost all treated synonymously with "criminals". And we all know the rich and powerful are blameless, right!?
This is prevalent in each racial group individually throughout all of human history. Examples: Whites? British treating Irish and Scots like shit and vice versa for centuries. Germans, French, all of Europe hated and killed each other for thousands of years.
Asia? Hans, vs. Manchus, the hatred triangle that is China, Japan, and Korea. Subjugation of island nations by mainlands.
Africa? The first slavers of black men, were other black men. More technologically advanced Egyptians and Middle Easterners enslaving and selling those from the tribal areas in the heart of the continent.
Then we have colonialism, that's an entirely different topic. But we can see that not only racial differences fueled the bigotry, but the perceived hierarchy who's civilization was more "advanced" vs. "barbaric" therefore "better" comes into play.
All of human history was build on fear or subjugation of each other over differences, but in every society across every race, and every color we can see that we will subjugate "our own" over class even within our own tribes.
So, racism I feel is like the crust of the pie (along with sexism and a couple other -isms). It's what you see first. It's where the attention is drawn to.
It is definitely something that needs to be conquered if we're going to keep this world and our species alive, but I think more deeply we need to examine what we think "value", "worth", and "money" mean, and how those things are perceived, treated, and earned.
So what do we do? Same thing we do with everything. Focus on what YOU can do. Be a kinder and more loving person to anyone you meet. Be conscious of your thoughts and feelings. Be introspective. Examine when you get angry and think about why. Allow yourself to be wrong. Apologize, do better. Don't just hear someone, but listen. Communicate with the intent and desire of understanding.
Love your neighbor as you love yourself and then when EVERY ONE does better, EVERYONE does better.
Potato
So, I'll start by saying, I'm definitely a racist. Ouch right, I may as well be a Nazi. But here's the thing, lots of people define "racism" and "racists" as different things with different qualities, etc. So I guess we got to define racism and where we fit into it.
So, here's what the current Merriam-webster dictionary says about racism
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
1. a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2. the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another
Now if we're going that that strict definition, I don't think I'm a racist, or that a majority of people in the world today are. These definitions really are describing the racial bigotry of the past where people truly did believe their race, creed, caste, tribe, whatever were superior to other. And yes, this DOES still exist today, and it always will as long as people are born as individuals and we don't become some sort of hivemind. As the most recent US news story about racial violence in Buffalo NY painfully reminds us.
When I say I'm racist, I mean in the terms that it's commonly thrown around today. And that is any prejudice (preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience), any stereotype, any joke based on groupings of people, any of that is "racist". And that I should state differs from hatred, bigotry etc. Anyone who has ever laughed at a joke about this group or that group, no matter how light hearted or playfully intended is "racist" by the standard we treat the definition today. So, by that standard, we're almost ALL racist, even sometimes against our own groups. White people, black people, Asians, Islanders, Natives, etc. There is no group of people that hasn't talked shit about another group of people. Most of this kind of "racism" is born out of ignorance, trying to be funny, fit in, etc rather than actually being centered in hatred for any one or any group.
But what I see talked about in our media I personally feel isn't really racism either, but a perversion of the word often being thrown around in it's place usually as a redirection (not always mind you). And in it's place I see classism being washed into racism to keep the eyes off the mega rich who truly have the power to do positive things in our world and society. As an example, I'm going to turn to the 2003 Jamie Kennedy comedy "Malibu's Most Wanted".
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328099/
Rather than explain it in detail here, you can look into the description of the movie online. Basically the movie is about the son of a US senator who has a deep love of "black culture" but grew up rich, with a silver spoon in his mouth. His dad hires two classically trained black actors to "scare" his son "white" and stop "acting black". But these actors don't know shit about the hood. Thankfully it's a comedy or it could get really dark really fast, but what we see here are that a lot of the differences proposed by media as being racially based, are more class based.
Now I'm not going to say that there isn't a disproportionate amount of lower class citizens who are black or brown than there are white in our US cities, because the math is very clear on that. There is a lot of inequality still
What I am saying though is that if you look at groups of people interacting, you'll see people of the same social hierarchy interacting with each other more frequently and more amicably than groups of people in the same race of different social and fiscal hierarchy. For instance, how rich white people and black people at the Met Gala or White House Correspondence Dinner will treat each other (at least on the surface), vs how the rich of any race treats their own that are poor. The poor are almost all treated synonymously with "criminals". And we all know the rich and powerful are blameless, right!?
This is prevalent in each racial group individually throughout all of human history. Examples: Whites? British treating Irish and Scots like shit and vice versa for centuries. Germans, French, all of Europe hated and killed each other for thousands of years.
Asia? Hans, vs. Manchus, the hatred triangle that is China, Japan, and Korea. Subjugation of island nations by mainlands.
Africa? The first slavers of black men, were other black men. More technologically advanced Egyptians and Middle Easterners enslaving and selling those from the tribal areas in the heart of the continent.
Then we have colonialism, that's an entirely different topic. But we can see that not only racial differences fueled the bigotry, but the perceived hierarchy who's civilization was more "advanced" vs. "barbaric" therefore "better" comes into play.
All of human history was build on fear or subjugation of each other over differences, but in every society across every race, and every color we can see that we will subjugate "our own" over class even within our own tribes.
So, racism I feel is like the crust of the pie (along with sexism and a couple other -isms). It's what you see first. It's where the attention is drawn to.
It is definitely something that needs to be conquered if we're going to keep this world and our species alive, but I think more deeply we need to examine what we think "value", "worth", and "money" mean, and how those things are perceived, treated, and earned.
So what do we do? Same thing we do with everything. Focus on what YOU can do. Be a kinder and more loving person to anyone you meet. Be conscious of your thoughts and feelings. Be introspective. Examine when you get angry and think about why. Allow yourself to be wrong. Apologize, do better. Don't just hear someone, but listen. Communicate with the intent and desire of understanding.
Love your neighbor as you love yourself and then when EVERY ONE does better, EVERYONE does better.
Potato Sakai's work essentially gets into this "Race Burns Class" is the big thing that stick in my mind. Here's a short piece of his
http://fight4loop.org/j-sakai-the-original-introduction-to-settlers
T1J, FD Signifier, Kat Blaque, Princess Weekes, and others have loads of content discussing racism.
Systematic oppression, microagressions, and everything in between.
I'm going to let them speak for themselves, because while we, as a society, can recognize the hoods and the crosses, there are a lot of other ways people of color are disenfranchised, scrutinized, and otherwise othered, that would fit the definition of "casual racism", and, unless you're attuned to it, you might not realize the harm it can do.
I can't point to any one specific video for anyone, but they have a lot of videos touching on it, to one degree or another. Because to them, navigating a racist culture is as ubiquitous as breathing.
Systematic oppression, microagressions, and everything in between.
I'm going to let them speak for themselves, because while we, as a society, can recognize the hoods and the crosses, there are a lot of other ways people of color are disenfranchised, scrutinized, and otherwise othered, that would fit the definition of "casual racism", and, unless you're attuned to it, you might not realize the harm it can do.
I can't point to any one specific video for anyone, but they have a lot of videos touching on it, to one degree or another. Because to them, navigating a racist culture is as ubiquitous as breathing.
Dr. of Splatterology
The Arc of History Bends Towards Justice
US versus THEM for Profit/Power goes back many 1000's of years.
Pointing to another group of people (THEM) as the source of all of your (US) problems and fears is a very, very old trick. Likely the cause of the extinction of all human species except Homo Sapiens.
Probably about 30,000 years ago - Humans sharing common beliefs beyond their immediate daily contacts are 1 of the great leaps forward in human civilization.
Many, many versions have been employed.
Wealth, Skin Color, Ethnicity, Language, Education, other side of the tracks, RELIGION..... ECT
It has been useful for getting US to: Take from THEM, Enslave THEM,...............and particularly Kill THEM. Religion and nationalism are probably tied at #1 for the Killing THEM.
Thousands of examples from history are available.
Without the context of history current events seem far more Outrageous and Horrific.
Expecting any group to give up their advantages in the competition of human survival without resistance is intentionally ignoring pretty much all of human history. Examples from history could and actually are used to argue against it. Native populations have often welcomed explorers and settlers with severely negative outcomes.
The Concept that Equality doesn't diminish the self is not easy to sell
I 100% realize that my viewpoint is from a privileged position, which is also true of almost anyone born in the past 60+ years in the US or Europe.
Hey indoor plumbing a really big recent privilege is still non-existent for Billions of People.
Go forward I'm optimistic that Equality and Justice is possible. Then it will be time for the water wars.
US versus THEM for Profit/Power goes back many 1000's of years.
Pointing to another group of people (THEM) as the source of all of your (US) problems and fears is a very, very old trick. Likely the cause of the extinction of all human species except Homo Sapiens.
Probably about 30,000 years ago - Humans sharing common beliefs beyond their immediate daily contacts are 1 of the great leaps forward in human civilization.
Many, many versions have been employed.
Wealth, Skin Color, Ethnicity, Language, Education, other side of the tracks, RELIGION..... ECT
It has been useful for getting US to: Take from THEM, Enslave THEM,...............and particularly Kill THEM. Religion and nationalism are probably tied at #1 for the Killing THEM.
Thousands of examples from history are available.
Without the context of history current events seem far more Outrageous and Horrific.
Expecting any group to give up their advantages in the competition of human survival without resistance is intentionally ignoring pretty much all of human history. Examples from history could and actually are used to argue against it. Native populations have often welcomed explorers and settlers with severely negative outcomes.
The Concept that Equality doesn't diminish the self is not easy to sell
I 100% realize that my viewpoint is from a privileged position, which is also true of almost anyone born in the past 60+ years in the US or Europe.
Hey indoor plumbing a really big recent privilege is still non-existent for Billions of People.
Go forward I'm optimistic that Equality and Justice is possible. Then it will be time for the water wars.
Cream pie lover
There are two issues.
Firstly, and most difficult - how do you convince people that racism (or indeed, prejudices in general) is wrong in the first place? I genuinel believe the best answer is exposure to a diversity of unthreatening, unchallenging, normal normal people. People who watch tv, like you do. People who go to the shops, like you do. People who need a mortgage or a plumber or are cross about all the potholes in the road, like you. Get used to people who seem different being the same as you.
The second issue is to be able to recognise racism when you see it. But don't fall into the trap of asking "what do racists do?". Ask yourself "how can *I* be a racist? What might *I* do?" Because if you take yourself out of the risk zone, you may not recognise flaws in your own behaviour, but if you're alert to where you might go wrong yourself, you can rely more fully on your judgment when you consider where other people are transgressing.
Firstly, and most difficult - how do you convince people that racism (or indeed, prejudices in general) is wrong in the first place? I genuinel believe the best answer is exposure to a diversity of unthreatening, unchallenging, normal normal people. People who watch tv, like you do. People who go to the shops, like you do. People who need a mortgage or a plumber or are cross about all the potholes in the road, like you. Get used to people who seem different being the same as you.
The second issue is to be able to recognise racism when you see it. But don't fall into the trap of asking "what do racists do?". Ask yourself "how can *I* be a racist? What might *I* do?" Because if you take yourself out of the risk zone, you may not recognise flaws in your own behaviour, but if you're alert to where you might go wrong yourself, you can rely more fully on your judgment when you consider where other people are transgressing.
Saturation Hall, Langstonedale
Lord of the Pies
Racism is everywhere. Many of us just don't realise just how deeply embedded it is into our daily lives and those of others. Privilege is quite hard to notice when you're the one with the privilege, so those of us who are pale, and especially pale and male, will often be almost entirely unaware of just how different things are for those who are not.
Here in the UK, the Stephen Lawrence inquiry of 1999 found that the Metropolitan Police - the largest force in the UK and the one that polices most of London and also deals with national anti-terrorism and other advanced police functions - was institutionally racist. That was 23 years ago, and yet in March of this year another horrific and clearly racist case came to light where a 15 year old black schoolgirl was dragged out of an exam in progress, and strip-searched including having her sanitary protection removed and an intimate search carried out, because someone suspected she was carrying drugs - an allegation that turned out to be entirely false. That absolutely would not have happend to a white child. It's clear from that case that the institutional racism has gone precisely no-where and is as prevalent now as it was when Stephen Lawrence was murdered.
Part of the problem is that policing is something that appeals to people, especially men, with far-right mindsets, they like the idea of the authority and power that the uniform and badge gives them, and being able to exercise that power over other people. And of course they bring racist (and usually also sexist, homophobic, and transphobic) views with them. And for way too long, blind eyes would be turned to horrendous social attitudes "because he'll make a good copper and we'll bash the rough edges off in training." Except you can't change someone's core beliefs and mindset in training, they'll just give the trainers the answer they think is wanted, while continuing to actually hold their original beliefs.
Then there's the pernicious idea that somehow one "race" (and that's a ludicrous idea anyway, there is only one race, we are all human) is superior to another, based on skin colour. The whole idea is batshit insane and yet as just seen tragically in the US, people are willing to go on gun rampages and slaughter innocent strangers over it. The BBC have just published an article on the Buffalo shooting and how far right killers are radicalised, and radicalise each other, on line.
And then in education, a report has just gone to MPs that many girls in schools think physics is a subject for white boys only - because all the famous scientists that are remembered and celebrated are white men, even though women and people of colour played a largely overlooked role in science history - and in some cases it was women who made the discoveries only for men to take the credit. Sexism and racism are deeply entwined, and homophobia and transphobia are also linked to them. How many people in general society are aware it was black drag queens who had a major part in the Stonewall Uprising for example?
References:
The Stephen Lawrence Inquiry of 1999:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/277111/4262.pdf
Child Q, March 2022:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60797237
Buffalo shooting: How far-right killers are radicalised online:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-61460468
Girls think physics is for white boys only, MPs told:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61494903
Here in the UK, the Stephen Lawrence inquiry of 1999 found that the Metropolitan Police - the largest force in the UK and the one that polices most of London and also deals with national anti-terrorism and other advanced police functions - was institutionally racist. That was 23 years ago, and yet in March of this year another horrific and clearly racist case came to light where a 15 year old black schoolgirl was dragged out of an exam in progress, and strip-searched including having her sanitary protection removed and an intimate search carried out, because someone suspected she was carrying drugs - an allegation that turned out to be entirely false. That absolutely would not have happend to a white child. It's clear from that case that the institutional racism has gone precisely no-where and is as prevalent now as it was when Stephen Lawrence was murdered.
Part of the problem is that policing is something that appeals to people, especially men, with far-right mindsets, they like the idea of the authority and power that the uniform and badge gives them, and being able to exercise that power over other people. And of course they bring racist (and usually also sexist, homophobic, and transphobic) views with them. And for way too long, blind eyes would be turned to horrendous social attitudes "because he'll make a good copper and we'll bash the rough edges off in training." Except you can't change someone's core beliefs and mindset in training, they'll just give the trainers the answer they think is wanted, while continuing to actually hold their original beliefs.
Then there's the pernicious idea that somehow one "race" (and that's a ludicrous idea anyway, there is only one race, we are all human) is superior to another, based on skin colour. The whole idea is batshit insane and yet as just seen tragically in the US, people are willing to go on gun rampages and slaughter innocent strangers over it. The BBC have just published an article on the Buffalo shooting and how far right killers are radicalised, and radicalise each other, on line.
And then in education, a report has just gone to MPs that many girls in schools think physics is a subject for white boys only - because all the famous scientists that are remembered and celebrated are white men, even though women and people of colour played a largely overlooked role in science history - and in some cases it was women who made the discoveries only for men to take the credit. Sexism and racism are deeply entwined, and homophobia and transphobia are also linked to them. How many people in general society are aware it was black drag queens who had a major part in the Stonewall Uprising for example?
References:
The Stephen Lawrence Inquiry of 1999:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/277111/4262.pdf
Child Q, March 2022:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60797237
Buffalo shooting: How far-right killers are radicalised online:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-61460468
Girls think physics is for white boys only, MPs told:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-61494903
Saturation Hall - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
Funnily enough, this video, by Rebecca Watson, popped up in my feed today. It talks about The Great Replacement 'theory' (used as loosely as possible), and why it is racist nonsense.
https://youtu.be/fh4uQeoi5wY
https://youtu.be/fh4uQeoi5wY
Dr. of Splatterology
Oh do I wish I had time to respond to my brother Northern Wam!
WEB Dubois was regulary disparged on Chicago radio (Howard Miller on WIND).
Bet no one here ever had to get the Grand Ave. bus (literally 5 blocks away) to high school the morning Hampton was shot.
If he and I shared a house, oh the conversations.
WEB Dubois was regulary disparged on Chicago radio (Howard Miller on WIND).
Bet no one here ever had to get the Grand Ave. bus (literally 5 blocks away) to high school the morning Hampton was shot.
If he and I shared a house, oh the conversations.
boxster2 said: Oh do I wish I had time to respond to my brother Northern Wam!
WEB Dubois was regulary disparged on Chicago radio (Howard Miller on WIND).
Bet no one here ever had to get the Grand Ave. bus (literally 5 blocks away) to high school the morning Hampton was shot.
If he and I shared a house, oh the conversations.
WEB Dubois was regulary disparged on Chicago radio (Howard Miller on WIND).
Bet no one here ever had to get the Grand Ave. bus (literally 5 blocks away) to high school the morning Hampton was shot.
If he and I shared a house, oh the conversations.
Thank you my bother, it's well appreciated
judyanne said: The Arc of History Bends Towards Justice
US versus THEM for Profit/Power goes back many 1000's of years.
Pointing to another group of people (THEM) as the source of all of your (US) problems and fears is a very, very old trick. Likely the cause of the extinction of all human species except Homo Sapiens.
Probably about 30,000 years ago - Humans sharing common beliefs beyond their immediate daily contacts are 1 of the great leaps forward in human civilization.
Many, many versions have been employed.
Wealth, Skin Color, Ethnicity, Language, Education, other side of the tracks, RELIGION..... ECT
It has been useful for getting US to: Take from THEM, Enslave THEM,...............and particularly Kill THEM. Religion and nationalism are probably tied at #1 for the Killing THEM.
Thousands of examples from history are available.
Without the context of history current events seem far more Outrageous and Horrific.
Expecting any group to give up their advantages in the competition of human survival without resistance is intentionally ignoring pretty much all of human history. Examples from history could and actually are used to argue against it. Native populations have often welcomed explorers and settlers with severely negative outcomes.
The Concept that Equality doesn't diminish the self is not easy to sell
I 100% realize that my viewpoint is from a privileged position, which is also true of almost anyone born in the past 60+ years in the US or Europe.
Hey indoor plumbing a really big recent privilege is still non-existent for Billions of People.
Go forward I'm optimistic that Equality and Justice is possible. Then it will be time for the water wars.
US versus THEM for Profit/Power goes back many 1000's of years.
Pointing to another group of people (THEM) as the source of all of your (US) problems and fears is a very, very old trick. Likely the cause of the extinction of all human species except Homo Sapiens.
Probably about 30,000 years ago - Humans sharing common beliefs beyond their immediate daily contacts are 1 of the great leaps forward in human civilization.
Many, many versions have been employed.
Wealth, Skin Color, Ethnicity, Language, Education, other side of the tracks, RELIGION..... ECT
It has been useful for getting US to: Take from THEM, Enslave THEM,...............and particularly Kill THEM. Religion and nationalism are probably tied at #1 for the Killing THEM.
Thousands of examples from history are available.
Without the context of history current events seem far more Outrageous and Horrific.
Expecting any group to give up their advantages in the competition of human survival without resistance is intentionally ignoring pretty much all of human history. Examples from history could and actually are used to argue against it. Native populations have often welcomed explorers and settlers with severely negative outcomes.
The Concept that Equality doesn't diminish the self is not easy to sell
I 100% realize that my viewpoint is from a privileged position, which is also true of almost anyone born in the past 60+ years in the US or Europe.
Hey indoor plumbing a really big recent privilege is still non-existent for Billions of People.
Go forward I'm optimistic that Equality and Justice is possible. Then it will be time for the water wars.
I have missed you friend!
He's more potato now than man. Twisted and evil.
Racism is unjust racial prejudice or discrimination. It can be either systemic or individual. Individual racism calls for the individual to take complete personal responsibility for their spiritual and intellectual bullshit. It requires, in part, training in critical thinking. Systemic racism is different -- it means we have a problem of individuals being insufficiently vigilant to patterns of racial prejudice. It requires, in part, having some education in the social sciences, e.g., resume studies. It is appropriate to hold people responsible for systemic racism to the degree that they participate in and have the power to affect the system and not take proportionate steps to remedy racial discrimination or prejudice.
None of this can be solved by learning about hard stuff through memes or slogans. It takes some discipline.
None of this can be solved by learning about hard stuff through memes or slogans. It takes some discipline.
Personally I think we're (society is) going backwards.
I follow Martin Luther King's principal of judging someone by the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
Then I see the modern (self-proclaimed) anti-racist activists who regularly use the race of another as a pejorative, and I have to wonder: What went wrong?
I follow Martin Luther King's principal of judging someone by the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
Then I see the modern (self-proclaimed) anti-racist activists who regularly use the race of another as a pejorative, and I have to wonder: What went wrong?
screen_name said: Personally I think we're (society is) going backwards.
I follow Martin Luther King's principal of judging someone by the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
Then I see the modern (self-proclaimed) anti-racist activists who regularly use the race of another as a pejorative, and I have to wonder: What went wrong?
I follow Martin Luther King's principal of judging someone by the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
Then I see the modern (self-proclaimed) anti-racist activists who regularly use the race of another as a pejorative, and I have to wonder: What went wrong?
What went wrong is the furtherance of systemic discrimination and prejudice, cooked in by a failed Reconstruction of the South and corresponding culture of aggrievement, that was encoded by racist policies like redlining and voter suppression. Civic hatred of this kind is stoked by right-wing elites because it distracts workers and the middle-class from organizing, and transforms that energy into a whole lot of labor fighting labor.
History has judged the contents of the American character. The judgment is negative. That is because the political majority (in particular, the elites) have done less than their part in remedying a sick system. You can quibble about people calling each other bad names, but it's a distraction, and it's not going to make anything better.
I have to start out by saying I hate this topic. I hate that it has to be discussed and I hate that there are people that are so afraid of it they are trying to prevent it being taught in higher education institutions. I hate that certain political parties grabbed this when their party was in trouble and claimed it was being taught to kids that they should hate their race when that was never the case. I hate that as a society we do not take more active measures against this kind of thinking and behavior. I hate finding out that there are people in this country that have to have very different conversations with their kids because of their race than I would need to have with my kids. I hate that there are children who's innocent look at the world is robbed from them because they have to be educated about this topic. I hate that there was a little girl that committed suicide because of the racist parents who raised racist kids that tormented this girl to the point she felt she had no worth as a person. I hate that there have been things in my life that I did not realize were considered overtly racist. I have changed those behaviors when it was pointed out to me. But because I was raised by what I have now realized were some racist parents I had no clue some of my actions were overtly racist. Something as simple as looking up and down the street when I saw a person of color vs when I saw a white person. My friend guarding her purse a little more cautiously around a person of color. These actions are not running around spouting racial slurs or disparaging someone because of their race, but they are overtly racist actions. I hate that I worry about the world my niece will grow up in coming from mixed race parents. It is bad enough having to worry about everything else in our society that happens to girls and women, but now I am concerned about what she will face because of her race. I really thought that my generation would be the learning generation and the generation of changing attitudes so that the next generation would be better prepared so that maybe their kids would be the generation where we saw hate crimes disappear. Unfortunately, we are still a few generations away from that.
The best experience I ever had with this topic was talking to a friend of mine who is a person of color and asking them if I came off racist. Finding out that I had actions that were overtly racist but that they did not think I was a racist person was definitely eye opening. I always thought I was a pretty fair person. If you have friends that are people of color, have that conversation with them. See if there are things that you don't realize you do that might be considered racist, even if just overtly. If you don't know about the conversations parents of color have with their kids talk with them. Find out the things they have to tell their kids. Find out what their concerns were. The talk I had with my friend let me know just how far behind we were as a society and that depending on where you lived things were not getting better they were just maintaining the status quo.
The best experience I ever had with this topic was talking to a friend of mine who is a person of color and asking them if I came off racist. Finding out that I had actions that were overtly racist but that they did not think I was a racist person was definitely eye opening. I always thought I was a pretty fair person. If you have friends that are people of color, have that conversation with them. See if there are things that you don't realize you do that might be considered racist, even if just overtly. If you don't know about the conversations parents of color have with their kids talk with them. Find out the things they have to tell their kids. Find out what their concerns were. The talk I had with my friend let me know just how far behind we were as a society and that depending on where you lived things were not getting better they were just maintaining the status quo.
Here's the way I look at racism. We're one human race with different ethnicities within that race. No one should be treated any different because of their skin color. It's wrong and immoral.
I am color blind to those with different skin tones. I treat everyone the same regardless of where they come from or whatever.
I am color blind to those with different skin tones. I treat everyone the same regardless of where they come from or whatever.
Messmaster said:
I'll speak my thoughts, but I really want to know if anyone has any useful perspectives to help educate those who think racists are all in the KKK or burning crosses.
I'll speak my thoughts, but I really want to know if anyone has any useful perspectives to help educate those who think racists are all in the KKK or burning crosses.
I'm old enough to remember learning about Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement half a century ago and believing that soon, total equality would come.
There have been significant legal changes since then. But human beings remain about the same.
What goes on privately in the brains of certain people is a thing that we may be stuck living with. But I have noticed that when hate isn't given oxygen, behavior does change.
Social norms and what is considered polite society can be effective. If you can't say it around work or around your family, you're forced to think about something else for awhile. Therefore, we need to speak up when we hear it.
Laws matter. We passed a lot of them but enforcement needs to be consistent.
And social media matters. A lot. And it's falling down on the job. Miserably.
Hatemongers post, and they give each other likes and more hate in their replies -- and it grows. To those who cry "I have my opinion and the right to free speech!" I say that if you want to keep your rights intact, stop behaving like a public menace.
(Prediction: I give America about 10 more years before this right somehow goes down -- no matter which party is in power.)
Sadly, I can't come up with a way to educate people. It's been tried. I thought my teachers did a great job of explaining it all -- half a century ago -- but not everyone listened.
Nessie
I can see I'm older than my dear friend Nessie.
That day was terrible for one who lived in sorta white hood in the West Side of Chicago.
The TV and radio new was terrible that night.
At high school, I could see the smoke plums; this was quite a bit away.
I just should have gone home before things got worse; and they did.
That day was terrible for one who lived in sorta white hood in the West Side of Chicago.
The TV and radio new was terrible that night.
At high school, I could see the smoke plums; this was quite a bit away.
I just should have gone home before things got worse; and they did.
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